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Well-known member
Gold Contributor
FALaholic #
May 19, 2001
northern Oklahoma/green country
Feedback: 14 / 0 / 0
In my town I pay twice as much for water as I do for natural gas. I can't run the house without both so anytime I see new regs come on board I get nervous.
It’s funny how historical episodes jacked the prices of some things that never come back down. Natural gas spot price is hovering around $2.50, but delivered to your door, it has more than tripled, just in the last year.

I think we will see $100 crude oil before we see much movement in the field price of natural gas. That doesn’t mean our house price won’t go up, fucking inflation involves everything in between. I hear some McDonald’s are now offering $21 to flip burgers. How’s that bidenomics working out for everyone?

Something that twists my crank, PVC prices have doubled, nearly tripled what they were just a few years ago, but my shotshell wad prices have stayed basically the same price. I could be mistaken, but I thought both of these items were made from the gas stream, not the crude oil stream. Someone set me straight on this.

Black Blade

Well-known member
FALaholic #
Sep 3, 2015
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
There's a glut of NatGas. We have well over several hundred years worth of NatGas and the same with coal. The discovery of shale gas far exceeds that of oil. In fact I'm amazed that the price of NatGas is as high as it is. It's essentially a waste by-product in oil production and we simply flare it off because it's not worth harvesting. Not likely to ever run out of cheap Natty in the next millenium.


Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #
Aug 25, 2014
Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Feedback: 69 / 0 / 0
Just went in on power buy with my brother, his three kids, mom, my business and home to put two propane companies we have used in the past in a bit of a bidding war. Had my part timers check tank at work who said appeared between 30% and 35% which will get thru winter as keep shop heat at 50°, office heat at 55° then when go in if just work in offices and graphics production turn heat to 63° and in shop 55° if just running machines and 60° if doing paint work. Last winter kept entire building at 50° all winter and burned about 250 gallons since have ceilings insulated at R-30 (think R-35 is code in Alaska and R-20 is minimum code local) so what's in tank will likely get building through another winter so like gasoline and diesel storage worries about theft since place is basically abandoned and cameras watching tanks only get video of guys in blue jeans, black hoodies with bandannas over their face anyone really wanting to steal can do it.

Had 500 gallon gasoline tank still at full early spring but told part time guys doing only job taken in two years which is still running to start using it and it's down to 150ish gallons with 250 gallon diesel tank almost full but harder to steal. House is a dual fuel HVAC that runs in heat pump mode then switches to natural gas when temperature drops below threshold where heat pumps are efficient or wife wants to jack the heat immediately. Hot water is natural gas and have propane conversion kits for HVAC and hot water heater. Keep two buried tanks of propane at house so if gas grid fails we have enough propane along with gasoline to keep vehicles running, electricity, house with hot water and warm.

We got a good deal buying for six homes, my business and brothers barns. Went ahead and had 1,000 gallon tank topped off at business and bought a 500 gallon above ground tank for extra overhead at house. Friend of mine has slowly been developing an area where he has poured cement walls with synthetic rock for appearance and now has a dozen 500 gallon tanks for his home, three for his shop and fills any that are empty at low point of market each year giving him basically 8,500 gallons at peak. He also has a OSHA/EPA legal poured concrete area with same synthetic rock cladding that has two 500 gallon gasoline tanks and one 500.gallon diesel. He and I use same vendor for gasoline/diesel and try to combine our buys to get a bigger discount when we top off tanks.

He dislikes 1,000 gallon propane tanks for same reason person who sold me mine at work did. Had pressure relief valve fail and tank vented entire contents. Now he has the big line of 500 gallon tanks and as one gets down to 10/15% he has system of valves he turns one feeding from off and full tank on. Any pressure valve fails he only loses 450ish gallons max as nobody fills tanks to max capacity. Didnt want an above ground propane tank on the Ponderosa but finding a good place to bury a third while not being able to oversee the work myself had my propane company deliver a refurbished 500 and fill it sitting in good location to feed generators. So many worry about cost of natural gas I worry more about availability if have pipeline issue. Gas stops flowing or price spikes high enough can swap my HVAC and hot water heater over to long paid for propane in an afternoon.

Biden, most liberals and their green new deal driving up all petroleum is huge part of the runaway inflation we are seeing. Then like in Georgia where many folks I know are having property taxes double because of way "homestead exemptions" are handled and counties don't get reimbursed for those discounts are taking the money from average home owners. Foresee a lot of elderly in rural north Georgia between cost of food, petroleum and property taxes losing their homes and I think that is the real end game. Old folks seem to die off sooner in those low rent assisted living facilities so big government gets them off Medicare, social security and gets to auction their homes on courthouse steps to kick the party off.

While it was public records our property taxes were doubling or more this year in my county, because I keep up was able to file appeals on my business and home before deadline which was thirty days after rule passed. In process my contact at courthouse said there was a further discount for disabled people not getting a paycheck or government check if filled out some documents and had three doctors sign them and provide copy of W2. Not taken a paycheck in 28 months so getting a credit for last year, won my appeal this year on tax increase plus get a discount for being out of work pool again. They passed the new tax rates and kept it so quiet that less than 25% of residents filed appeals and since all appeals had to go through court system they could not tie up stats court and arbitrated with all who filed. Saved me $2,000 in additional property taxes this year at home and $1,000 at work. Notices for 2023 are going out now and many elderly that didn't know to file an appeal are now stuck and many can't pay new rates.

Client with 35 rentals negotiated but still had a 30% increase on all houses which passes to renters. Said first time he has had empty rentals and going into 2024 with six empty due to his new rates. Doctor friend of mine.lives in nice lake house filed his appeal but they only granted a 10% lower rate than they were moving him to while reappraising his home saying it's worth $500,000 more than last appraisal (they jacked my house value $100,00) and his property tax on a single family house is going up from $85,000 per year to $170,000. Without an appeal he would have paid $107,000 more in property taxes this year. Basically government wants us to not be able to eat or own homes unless stay in work force till die of stress from working or freeze to death in winter when unable to pay gas bill to warm your house. Used to get tax bills early November and had to pay by December 31st. Now arrive in September and have to pay by November 1 then they hold the money in interest bearing account till January 1st but if bill is not paid by December 1 along with late fees owners get papers to vacate by December 31 so it can be auctioned. Wife and I worked hard to save money but enough inflation combined with tax increases and it may be a Waco style standoff before die of old age. If not us it will be some and I guess having SWAT team remove them saves a lot of entitlements being paid out. Covid didn't kill us and the vaxx isn't killing enough as we refused it so guess it's Plan C.