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Switzerland's SIG 510 in Detail - The Other Roller Lock

schmuzzy

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One more minor point to add...

had the two rifles shown (both 7.62 NATO) out at the range this past weekend. the FN has a decided kick to it, and the low sight line means you really have to dig your face into the hard plastic stock. not the most comfortable rifle to shoot all day.

the full size Stgw57 is a heavy beast- but my god, what an utter joy to shoot. fires that .308 down range with all the impart of a .223

130yds, iron sights and my ageing eyes... still kept 8 of 8 in the black. (25yd standard pistol target black, btw)
 

ALL FAL

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Now Im really drooling while I wait for mine. Good things come to those who wait, right?:wink:
Hey Brother, I'm waiting too, on the watch for some ammo to help ya break that one in, yeah, I'd drive up there just to shoot with you and your PE57 :biggrin:.

Not one for crowds when shooting these days.
 

12v71

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Hey Brother, I'm waiting too, on the watch for some ammo to help ya break that one in, yeah, I'd drive up there just to shoot with you and your PE57 :biggrin:.

Not one for crowds when shooting these days.
If you would really like to do that, I'l shoot a pm when I have it. Bring a couple boxes of .308 and We can do it. Im working on a new "private range" my last one got Bulldozed for new farmland.:cry:
 

AGG

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With regards to field stripping, yes. As for components which differ, I cannot say. If I had a PE57 in hand, I would absolutely be comparing and contrasting the two. However, I don't need yet another caliber to feed so, unless someone lends me one, that's not likely to happen anytime soon.
Extractor/ejector (PE57 can be shortened for the AMT)
Bolt heads (different due to case dimensions)
Recoil spring assembly tips (different)

Tony
 

amafrank

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Also, the rear of the 2-piece bolt (different due to the recoil spring assembly tips)

Tony
In addition the STGW57 and PE57 bolt rear sections are different due to the location of the buffer in the buttstock. The Stgw 57 mainspring assembly has 3 springs in it. The tip of the spring guide is spring loaded as well with a fairly small diameter spring.

The PE57 and the Stgw 57 are not the same gun. All those parts kits that were imported were for the Stgw 57 of which there were more than 800,000 built. Even if they were modified for semi auto only they are still Stgw 57s.

The Magwell is different, the trigger group and housing are different, the receiver is different, markings and serial range are different. Only about 4000 PE57s were ever built and all were built by SIG specifically for the commercial market. They will use either the Stgw 57 magazines or the AMT mag which is not the case with the Stgw 57. The Stgw has a narrow section at the front of the magwell to help keep the mag from rattling around. The PE has had this area made wider. Probably the intent was to allow the use of the 510-4 / AMT mag in other calibers. Its possible the guns imported into France were done in .243 cal due to the regulations prohibiting military calibers. .243 will work fine in the AMT mag but not in the Stgw 57.

The sight bases on All the PEs were made to accept the standard scope mounts. Very few of the Stgw 57s have scope mounts and none of the kits I've seen do. I've heard numbers of 2000-30,000 of the Stgws tossed about but I don't know for sure.

Serial numbers on all the Stgw 57s start with the letter A. All of the kits I've seen in the US and almost all the guns I saw in Switzerland were 6 digit numbers plus the A prefix. The A indicates military use. All of the PE 57s serial numbers start with PE indicating commercial manufacture. PE means Privat Einzelfeuer, or Single shot (semi auto). The serial numbers of the PE series were never more then 4 digits. Not a lot of the guns were imported into the US. I've seen a couple different numbers for importers with 1200-1900 of them being a reasonable estimate.

The 510-4 / AMT is a very similar thing. The 510-4 was a modified 7.62 X 51 version of the Swiss battle rifle and was intended for sale to other countries in that cal. The Swiss didn't use 308 so it wasn't for them. The guns were sold to Bolivia and Chile but the Swiss due to their Neutrality weren't permitted to sell to them directly. For that reason Beretta in Italy was setup to make the guns for those sales.

The AMT was a commercial semi auto only version of the 510-4 built specifically for the civilian market. AMT stands for American Match Target. The only semi-auto only, 510-4 marked guns imported into the US were the test and evaluation guns brought in for ATF import determination. There were a dozen or less. Once approval was granted the guns subsequently imported were all marked SIG AMT. About 3000 guns total were produced and once again US import numbers seem to vary from about 1200-2000 depending on source. All are marked on top of the front trunnion with SIG AMT and a serial number. All the serials I've seen have been 5 digit and range from 15000 to just over 20000.

The differences between the AMT and the 510-4 are not as great as that between the Stgw and PE 57s. Basic differences are the trigger group and housing, markings and serial range, and the muzzle end of the barrel. All the barrels with the grenade launching rings and muzzle brake/flash hider are for the 510-4. They are not AMT barrels so all those that DSA sold were and are not AMT barrels or kits, they are 510-4 kits and parts. The proof markings on the parts and barrels are different so its possible the 510-4 stuff was made by Beretta. I'm not convinced most of the stuff wasn't made in Switzerland and assembled in Italy. AMT barrels are all threaded and have no grenade launching rings. Thats what makes them AMT and not 510-4. In addition the trigger housings won't interchange. The full auto 510-4 housings won't fit on the semi auto AMT receiver. The same is true of the PE and Stgw 57s. Chilean 510-4 front trunnions from that import were marked Armada de Chile and a serial number. I don't know if all the kits DSA brought in were from the Chilean Navy but there were also guns marked Ejercito de Chile and Fuerza Aerea de Chile if I recall correctly. I've not seen any of those as kits. I've not seen any of the Bolivian guns or parts sets in the US either.

Maybe its a bit nitpicking but there are distinct differences between the Semi only commercial guns and the military service guns. The parts imported for the Stgw 57 and 510-4 are frequently called by the names of the Semi only commercial guns. Some folks know and don't care, some folks have no idea there is a difference. It is a greater difference than those between the G3 and the HK91. Import numbers are really hard to nail down because while it is possible to find numbers from the importers (if they'll share) is not really possible to get numbers from ATF for totals. There were guns imported by individuals way back when and they don't always comply with the licensed importers requirements. They are generally not import marked either. GI's brought stuff in from PX sales in foreign lands too so its not reasonably possible to nail down exact numbers.

Hope the information helps.

Frank
 
Last edited:

ftierson

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In addition the STGW57 and PE57 bolt rear sections are different due to the location of the buffer in the buttstock. The Stgw 57 mainspring assembly has 3 springs in it. The tip of the spring guide is spring loaded as well with a fairly small diameter spring.

The PE57 and the Stgw 57 are not the same gun. All those parts kits that were imported were for the Stgw 57 of which there were more than 800,000 built. Even if they were modified for semi auto only they are still Stgw 57s.

The Magwell is different, the trigger group and housing are different, the receiver is different, markings and serial range are different. Only about 4000 PE57s were ever built and all were built by SIG specifically for the commercial market. They will use either the Stgw 57 magazines or the AMT mag which is not the case with the Stgw 57. The Stgw has a narrow section at the front of the magwell to help keep the mag from rattling around. The PE has had this area made wider. Probably the intent was to allow the use of the 510-4 / AMT mag in other calibers. Its possible the guns imported into France were done in .243 cal due to the regulations prohibiting military calibers. .243 will work fine in the AMT mag but not in the Stgw 57.

The sight bases on All the PEs were made to accept the standard scope mounts. Very few of the Stgw 57s have scope mounts and none of the kits I've seen do. I've heard numbers of 2000-30,000 of the Stgws tossed about but I don't know for sure.

Serial numbers on all the Stgw 57s start with the letter A. All of the kits I've seen in the US and almost all the guns I saw in Switzerland were 6 digit numbers plus the A prefix. The A indicates military use. All of the PE 57s serial numbers start with PE indicating commercial manufacture. PE means Privat Einzelfeuer, or Single shot (semi auto). The serial numbers of the PE series were never more then 4 digits. Not a lot of the guns were imported into the US. I've seen a couple different numbers for importers with 1200-1900 of them being a reasonable estimate.

The 510-4 / AMT is a very similar thing. The 510-4 was a modified 7.62 X 51 version of the Swiss battle rifle and was intended for sale to other countries in that cal. The Swiss didn't use 308 so it wasn't for them. The guns were sold to Bolivia and Chile but the Swiss due to their Neutrality weren't permitted to sell to them directly. For that reason Beretta in Italy was setup to make the guns for those sales.

The AMT was a commercial semi auto only version of the 510-4 built specifically for the civilian market. AMT stands for American Match Target. The only semi-auto only, 510-4 marked guns imported into the US were the test and evaluation guns brought in for ATF import determination. There were a dozen or less. Once approval was granted the guns subsequently imported were all marked SIG AMT. About 3000 guns total were produced and once again US import numbers seem to vary from about 1200-2000 depending on source. All are marked on top of the front trunnion with SIG AMT and a serial number. All the serials I've seen have been 5 digit and range from 15000 to just over 20000.

The differences between the AMT and the 510-4 are not as great as that between the Stgw and PE 57s. Basic differences are the trigger group and housing, markings and serial range, and the muzzle end of the barrel. All the barrels with the grenade launching rings and muzzle brake/flash hider are for the 510-4. They are not AMT barrels so all those that DSA sold were and are not AMT barrels or kits, they are 510-4 kits and parts. The proof markings on the parts and barrels are different so its possible the 510-4 stuff was made by Beretta. I'm not convinced most of the stuff wasn't made in Switzerland and assembled in Italy. AMT barrels are all threaded and have no grenade launching rings. Thats what makes them AMT and not 510-4. In addition the trigger housings won't interchange. The full auto 510-4 housings won't fit on the semi auto AMT receiver. The same is true of the PE and Stgw 57s. Chilean 510-4 front trunnions from that import were marked Armada de Chile and a serial number. I don't know if all the kits DSA brought in were from the Chilean Navy but there were also guns marked Ejercito de Chile and Fuerza Aerea de Chile if I recall correctly. I've not seen any of those as kits. I've not seen any of the Bolivian guns or parts sets in the US either.

Maybe its a bit nitpicking but there are distinct differences between the Semi only commercial guns and the military service guns. The parts imported for the Stgw 57 and 510-4 are frequently called by the names of the Semi only commercial guns. Some folks know and don't care, some folks have no idea there is a difference. It is a greater difference than those between the G3 and the HK91. Import numbers are really hard to nail down because while it is possible to find numbers from the importers (if they'll share) is not really possible to get numbers from ATF for totals. There were guns imported by individuals way back when and they don't always comply with the licensed importers requirements. They are generally not import marked either. GI's brought stuff in from PX sales in foreign lands too so its not reasonably possible to nail down exact numbers.

Hope the information helps.
Great info, Frank, thanks for it...

And, while my AMT SN falls in the range you mention, it's a couple of hundred higher than 20000 (for your information).

Forrest
 
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