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I think I want a VZ 58. Is it a silly want or, what?

ByronF

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Seems like a silly want to me. Nothing wrong with that, though. It's certainly too late to be in on the investment potential. They're unusual enough that there aren't abundant spare parts or mags. The ammo is no longer cheap. But aren't most of our firearms silly extravagances? One AR15, a Rem 700 in 30-06, a 12 ga 870, and a Glock 19 is all I really need.
 

ftierson

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Seems like a silly want to me. Nothing wrong with that, though. It's certainly too late to be in on the investment potential. They're unusual enough that there aren't abundant spare parts or mags. The ammo is no longer cheap. But aren't most of our firearms silly extravagances? One AR15, a Rem 700 in 30-06, a 12 ga 870, and a Glock 19 is all I really need.
All I need is this Thermos...

And this lamp...

:)

Forrest
 

aron82

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Plenty of spare parts available at places like apex and sarco. Parts kits are still available as well.
Optics mounting is a bit more difficult than an ak. Not as many options.
If you want something super tactical to mount 2 optics lights, lasers and a multi tool to, then there are better options.
As others have said the original folding stocks are not comfortable to shoot. Worse than an ak underfolder.
Israel makes quite a few magpul esq accessories from fab defense and mako, if that's your thing.
 

jjjxlr8

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The iron sights are pretty good on the Vz58 but the rifle can certainly shoot well enough to take advantage of an optic if you want to go that route. There are also folding bipods available that latch onto the bayonet lug. Not sure how well they work or how much they throw off the accuracy, though.

IMG_0323.JPG


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WrenchNHammer

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VZ-58 - PROS ;
More "svelt" than an AK,
Common ammo,
Relatively accurate for what it is,
Can be easily converted back and forth between fixed/folding stock,
Lots of customizable options
High on the "coolness" scale (It's the rifle used by the female sniper in "Full Metal Jacket"!)

VZ-58 - CONS;
Unique magazine not interchangeable with the AK magazine,
Parts availability not as common as more popular guns

Comparing the "handiness" between the VZ-58 and an AK, the VZ makes the AK seem almost bulky. Not exactly "M1 Carbine vs. M-14" different but it is obvious enough.

If I had to keep only one 7.62X39mm rifle in my arsenal the VZ-58 would be a strong contender.
 

jjjxlr8

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I've had multiple people comment when shooting the Vz58 for the first time that "it feels like a toy." It does feel small and it is lighter than an AK. The weird resin furniture and glossy gray finish also add to that odd impression.
 

Bubacus

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I abandonded AKs for the most part after I got my VZ. I have two. The first one I picked up was a Century build with beaver barf. I loved it and the bonesteel muzzle brake makes it a total pussy cat to shoot. There is an old thread from way back where I showed the US made piston that got bent in the gun and I had to cut it out. Put in a surplus piston and it ran like a Swiss watch. I picked up a Czech point rifle with blonde furniture and picked up some black sythetic furniture as well. The are exceptionally pleasant rifles to shoot.

If you do buy a Century, beware of the Gremlins!


From an old AR15.com post:

In order to understand the common problem referred to as the VZ58 "gremlin" and the reason for the "tabbed" carriers, you will first need a general understanding of how the fire control group works.


how the semi auto trigger system works
When the rifle is cocked, the striker is held rearward by the sear, preventing it from sliding forward and hitting firing pin.

when the trigger is pulled, the disconnector, which is pinned to the trigger, is pulled forward. When the disconnector is pulled forward, a small protrusion on the disconnector hooks onto the bottom of the sear, and rotates the sear on its pivot. When the sear is rotated, the striker is released and slides forward to strike firing pin and fire the weapon.

When the weapon is fired, the gas system will send the bolt carrier rearward, to reload and re-cock the weapon. This happens very fast and the shooter does not have time to release the trigger during this action.
Since the trigger remains pulled, in order to return the sear to its original position, the trigger must be disconnected from the sear.

When the bolt carrier is traveling rearward, a lump on the bottom of the carrier, contacts a lump on the top of the disconnector, pushing the disconnector downward. When the disconnector is pushed downward, the protrusion that hooks the sear, is slid off of the bottom of sear, releasing sear to return to its original position, where it can catch or "cock" the striker. The hook then sits underneath the sear until the trigger is released and it can spring back up behind the sear again

The carrier then continues its rearward travel, until the end, where it reverses direction and is returned forward by the recoil spring.

On the way forward, the striker is caught by the sear which should now be in its original position. Continuing forward, the carrier then strikes the disconnector again, and continues to travel all the way forward loading the next round. The striker remains held by the sear, until the shooter releases, and re-pulls the trigger.


What the problem is and what causes it

The VZ58 "gremlin" is a condition that can result in the striker not being caught by the sear and follwing the carrier home, leaving the rifle uncocked.
The "gremlin" shows itself when for one of several reasons, the sear re-connects to the disconnector after the carrier has disconnected them during its rearward travel.

The main reason, is that during the carrier assembly's rearward travel, the striker must push the sear back down in order to corss it. If the sear is pushed down as far as it gets pulled down by the trigger, it will pass the hook on the disconnector, allowing the disconnector hook to spring back up and re-connect with striker. The only reason this does not happen everytime, is that there is a small amount of overtravel, meaning that the trigger/disconnector travel slightly farther than the sear must in order to release sear. If the rifle were to have zero overtravel, a re-connect would occur everytime. What makes it occur when there is some overtravel, is that when the sear is pushed down it ihas inertia and travels farther than the striker actually forces it. In summary, if the sears inertia outweighs the overtravel + sear spring pressure a re-connect will be caused.
The other reason can be from the shooter. Many shooters, albeit unknown to them, will actually partially release and re-pull the trigger during recoil. This action would not be noticeable if it weren't for the fact that it can, in affected vz58 rifles, exascerbate the lack of overtravel and cause the "gremiln" to appear. This explains why some shooters experience the problem more frequently, even with different rifles than others.

When a re-connect occurs during rearward travel, it stays re-connected until the carrier hits the disconnector again on the way forward, the problem is that by that time, the striker has already crossed sear and is on its way to follwing carrier home, resulting in an uncocked rifle.

What is a "tabbed" carrier and how does it fix this problem?
A "tabbed" carrier, is an original bolt carrier, that has had a tab of steel welded to it, extending the disconnector lump forward. It fixes the problem completely by extending the lump forward far enough, that during the carrier's forward travel, it will hit the disconnector before the striker crosses the sear, so even if a re-connect happens another disconnect will happen before it is too late, and the sear will be at home to catch the striker and cock the rifle.

Why don't the Czechs have this problem on the original rifles?
The original rifles have an autosear, which holds the striker rearward until the carrier finishes it's forward travel. Therefore the striker cannot follow carrier home, and by the time the autosear has released the carrier will have already disconnected the trigger from the sear allowing the sear to return to its original postion and catch the striker.

What rifles come with "tabbed" carriers?
All D-Technik/Czech Small Arms rifles
some early century rifles.
I believe CSA(Czech Small Arms) has a patent protecting rifles with "tabbed" carriers

There are a lot of rifles out there without "tabbed" carriers how important can it really be?
How important is it that your rifle always goes bang?
Although the problem is sometimes infrequent it is always there and can manifest at any time, most likely when it will huirt the most.
It can be made even less frequent by increasing overtravel and or sear spring pressure, but both of those solutions are detrimental to trigger feel and neither completely solves the issue.
 

harleyrider

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I'm gonna say, I have 2 of the Century VZ 2008's a folder and a beaver barf full stock. Mine have been good to me. But some can have problems. A cool rifle with nearly indestructible mags.
I bought a few of these back when SOG, AIM, and others had the Century VZ 2008’s on sale. I got these when the price dipped to $249 per rifle.
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Looking at today’s prices, wish I would have held on to a few more of them. I still have one and it’s a lot of fun to blast away with. They make a nice, compact truck gun too - fit under the back seat of the truck nicely. 😎

HR
 

Pluribus

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I haven’t decided yet because I keep tossing back-and-forth between one in the traditional 7.62 x 39 and the 5.56 x 45. Something inside of me thinks that I want to stay with a caliber that I have standard on hand and, not reinvest in the x39 that I no longer have a firearm for otherwise. Anyone here have one in 5.56 x 45? And, how did they handle in that caliber?
 

FUUN063

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I, like others here and there, built mine up with a new parts kit and machined receiver bought at Knob many, many moons ago. I built it, tested it and sat it in the safe. Now, after seeing this thread, I may need 3 or 4 more variant stock styles as I only have the folder at this time. When they were bought new, Knob Creek vendors had them in a storage case and they came with different stocks, parts, mags, etc. I should have bought several of the cases with rifle kits in them like the 10 pack of 91/30's and such, but I was too busy buying up the inventory on L1A1 stuff...........ugh. I miss Knob Creek. One of you guys needs to start that back up in KY so I can get my bi-annual trip gun parts fix.

Leland
 
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