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free float
- Thread starter madrad62
- Start date
Firemedic8998
Well-known member
There are rail systems available that install without removing the barrel, but I'm not aware of any free floating systems that don't require it. It's not hard to do but it does require a bench vice and some tools. It's literally a ten minute job with the right tools, unless something goes wrong.
I say this because I just did a remington Bushmaster barrel where I had to remove the front sight to install a handguard and I had a hell of a time with it. Between soft taper pins and ridiculous tension I wound up having to drill the old pins out, re-ream the tapers, and replace them. That was possibly the most difficult sight removal I have ever done. Took almost 3 hours and broke two good Starrett 1/8" punches in the process. What a PITA! But I got it done and it came out great, so at least there's that.
I say this because I just did a remington Bushmaster barrel where I had to remove the front sight to install a handguard and I had a hell of a time with it. Between soft taper pins and ridiculous tension I wound up having to drill the old pins out, re-ream the tapers, and replace them. That was possibly the most difficult sight removal I have ever done. Took almost 3 hours and broke two good Starrett 1/8" punches in the process. What a PITA! But I got it done and it came out great, so at least there's that.
This is not a rail system, but is free float and no need to change the retaining ring or barrel nut.
This is a work around for NM competition rifles that need to conform to "as issued" configuration.
Most railed handguards require a proprietary barrel nut and there are many to choose from.
www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-handguards-parts/ar-15m16-nm-free-float
This is a work around for NM competition rifles that need to conform to "as issued" configuration.
Most railed handguards require a proprietary barrel nut and there are many to choose from.
www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-handguards-parts/ar-15m16-nm-free-float
W.E.G.
FAL Files Administrator
Just buy an upper that already has the float-handguard you want already installed.
Leave the original one alone unless you want a lesson in fuckery.
Because its highy unlikely you have the tools and experience you need to to disassemble a factory pinned upper without...
fuckery.
Complete uppers are cheap.
Leave the original one alone unless you want a lesson in fuckery.
Because its highy unlikely you have the tools and experience you need to to disassemble a factory pinned upper without...
fuckery.
Complete uppers are cheap.
Jarhead504
Well-known member
And regardless if it is your first time at it or extremely experienced in fuckery; it is still going cost you MONEY, usually more than what you expected and more than just doing it right and avoiding it. PLUS, fuckery takes a toll on everything else in your life; patience, time, relationships, job status, inner peace, peace with God; all of it.
Jarhead
madrad62
Well-known member
hell yea! fuckery on bro,s. I have the tools and have assembled and disasembled plenty. im looking to mount a stand alone nv laser on a light wieght 16" mid length, just was trying to go the easy way if possible.doesnt have to be free float , just very ridgid so as not to lose adjustment. Looked at the KZ bayonet mount picaniny rail, that will put the barrel and laser parallel ,but would rather have something with a little more beef.
And I had an idea on the fucking fsb pins,modify or construct a tool like a kalishnacobb front sight windage tool. they are a royal pain in the ass!
And I had an idea on the fucking fsb pins,modify or construct a tool like a kalishnacobb front sight windage tool. they are a royal pain in the ass!
Firemedic8998
Well-known member
I was cruising around the internet today and found this, it looks like it might fit your requirements- midlength free float but using the stock delta ring. Not cheap though...
Interestingly enough, they also make them for the FALs:
www.vltor.com
Hope this helps.
Interestingly enough, they also make them for the FALs:
CASV-FAL: FAL Handguard | Vltor Weapon Systems
www.vltor.com
Hope this helps.
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Yeah, the CASV-M is probably the most rigid option using the stock barrel nut/ delta ring assembly. No need to remove the front sight either. It is a bit heavy though.
madrad62
Well-known member
Almost a 1 lb, that is heavy, the mid west system looks good,just whack the delta ring,spring and snap ring off. Thanks guys.
Did the idea with the damn fsb pins get anybody thinking?
Did the idea with the damn fsb pins get anybody thinking?
Yeah especially right now.
Firemedic8998
Well-known member
Yes, for the love of all that's holy, drive the pins out from the small end. Use a big hammer and a short punch, it's best to soak them in penetrating oil for a while first. Often they will break loose by using a large diameter punch to drive them flush first then a 1/8 punch to remove them. Unfortunately there are now some makers using straight pins which have no taper. Removing those really sucks. If all else fails drill them out with a 3/32 cobalt bit(make sure it's straight though!) and then clean the holes with a 1/8. The taper reamer for the pin holes is a 2/0 if you need to clean the holes up, but don't go too far or the pins will protrude way more on one side than the other and not hold well. Also make sure the sight is on straight when you are doing it or it'll be crooked. Sometimes it's better to do one pin at a time, that keeps the front sight tower held straight while you are working on the other pin.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
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madrad62
Well-known member
it,ll strip the threads[ dont hit me with the negative waves man] my all time favorite movie.Im sure all you old geezers remember that line.
I wrote down the mid west forends so I dont forget. That sounds like the ticket.
I wrote down the mid west forends so I dont forget. That sounds like the ticket.
Strop10
Well-known member
Midwest Industries, Daniel Defense, Centurion Arms, Troy Industries, Vltor, Samson Manufacturing, ARMS, and probably others make free float rails that do not require barrel or front sight removal. Most do require the delta ring assembly to be cut off, but a few are totally drop in.
Too many folks have been convinced a $29 universal armorers wrench is all you need to build an AR or do a barrel swap. When discover your $5 plastic holding fixture snaps off the vice, need a proprietary barrel nut wrench for new nut that goes with your free float forearm, may as well square front of receiver while barrel is off and a decent torque wrench to properly secure barrel nut is needed along with some proprietary bedding material for barrel extension to receiver fit and proper anti-seize for barrel nut thread you have spent enough just on tools to buy another upper. If only have one upper need another anyway. You can cobble it together on kitchen table (seen some fairly nice kitchen table rifles) but odds are will wish you just ordered an upper. Takes me two days to get threads stretched then final torque run up so if break it apart two years later takes same torque to remove nut as where I locked it down. If just snug once and go your torque value will wander.
In 2014 my plan is to start building uppers using my www.CoolAR15.com website. Have too many requests, have every tool required and looks like doctors want to disable me permanently so will need some small income to pay for my toys. The 6.8 crowd and guys who want a precision upper seem willing, actually some are near begging me to start offering uppers. Donate a rifle to a gun club every year for a charity event, first year sold for $1,500, owner took to range and second year rifle sold for $3,000 and last brought $5,000 but charity auctions are no gauge of value but shows my donation rifles shoot well enough have dozens of requests out of that club. That said on occasion I can do everything right then have more little gremlins to chase than like.
In 2014 my plan is to start building uppers using my www.CoolAR15.com website. Have too many requests, have every tool required and looks like doctors want to disable me permanently so will need some small income to pay for my toys. The 6.8 crowd and guys who want a precision upper seem willing, actually some are near begging me to start offering uppers. Donate a rifle to a gun club every year for a charity event, first year sold for $1,500, owner took to range and second year rifle sold for $3,000 and last brought $5,000 but charity auctions are no gauge of value but shows my donation rifles shoot well enough have dozens of requests out of that club. That said on occasion I can do everything right then have more little gremlins to chase than like.
madrad62
Well-known member
Have a reaction rod,3 pin wrench,squaring tool and old style torque wrench that served me well with cars, bikes and ar,s,quench the threads 3 times to 30 lbs and go to next available slot for gas tube,have never had to go over 60 lbs. this aint exactlly rocket surgery. Of the dozen or so ive done, i havnt had a problem child yet.I'm sure murpheys law will intervene at some point. I do know what you mean about wandering torques though or atleast checking torques on things already built. several yrs ago I found a complete a1 upper,snapped it on a lower and commenced to shooten,hits were all over the place, gee that barrel must be whiped! well upon dissasembly I found that the nut was only hand finger tight,after proper torque was applied,it settled down to normal battle rifle accuracy, now I check everything that comes in the door! Ya just dont know what the last knuckle dragger to finger f*#k it has done!
No, it's not rocket science and if you own a torque wrench, good holding fixture and can square an upper your good to go. Have had people bring rifles into LGS (one said his upper was built by competing LGS) barrel nuts were so loose they unthreaded with the forearm as removing it to inspect barrel nut torque or if had milspec grips and slip ring could remove nut with hand if not already backing out. Can see someone who has wife holding tail end of receiver or even sitting on it and once they get nut snug enough with their $29 wrench wife can't keep it from scuffing the kitchen table or their $4.99 rectangular plastic mag well vice adapter snaps call it done.
Some say I am crazy but after square my upper and clean it up install barrel, just a smidge of anti-sieze on threads, run nut up to 50% of my torque goal and let sit overnight. Next day remove nut and let sit a few hours then take it up to 75% of final torque goal and let sit overnight again. Day three remove nut and let relax a few hours. Install my bedding compound on barrel extension, add a smidge of anti-sieze take it up to my preferred torque setting (plus or minus a few foot pounds so notch/hole is just shy of proper alignment) and let sit overnight. Next morning put torque wrench on and turn that last 1/8" or so to align gas tube notch/hole verifying my final torque is in my happy zone.
I actually have two happy zones for barrel nut torque as steel nut on aluminum upper does not seem change as much as an aluminum nut on aluminum receiver. I have taken same brand uppers from same lot, same two barrels and assembled one using a steel nut, other an aluminum nut in single run up with same Snap-on torque wrench and then put in parts locker a month. When remove both will have wandered a bit but the aluminum nut will have dropped torque value a bit more.
I know some who wont reuse an upper receiver because their belief is after months or years of shooting the threads have stretched enough can't get an accurate torque but unless I do an interference fit where receiver to extension fit is so snug have to put barrel in freezer, receiver in oven and then tap barrel into place with a mallet I will reuse them. Some I do interference fit (couple of companies final machine slightly undersize nose on their receivers for people who want to pound barrel in with a hammer) and if those need rebarreling take off all reusable parts but dont try to get barrel out of receiver as have seen them break nose off even if heat it up before try to pull barrel.
Between a hammer together barrel/upper fit with my bedding compound once it's all snugged up the barrel and upper basically become a single piece. When see an AR 15 build like this of mine when barrel starts to loose accuracy the upper is so inexpensive I dont want to try and reuse it even if able to part the two as something likely stretched or was stressed in parting barrel and upper. Just put in locker with note saying it's for emergency use or a heavy barrel plinker if someone wants such. My guess is 50/50 will snap nose off receiver before barrel let's loose it took some effort to get the extension into upper on both builds did on matched pair of 24" WOA barrels. I dislike tolerance stack on precision rifles and build in some slop on SHTF rifles so they keep running when dirty, full of mud and need them to keep running.
Some say I am crazy but after square my upper and clean it up install barrel, just a smidge of anti-sieze on threads, run nut up to 50% of my torque goal and let sit overnight. Next day remove nut and let sit a few hours then take it up to 75% of final torque goal and let sit overnight again. Day three remove nut and let relax a few hours. Install my bedding compound on barrel extension, add a smidge of anti-sieze take it up to my preferred torque setting (plus or minus a few foot pounds so notch/hole is just shy of proper alignment) and let sit overnight. Next morning put torque wrench on and turn that last 1/8" or so to align gas tube notch/hole verifying my final torque is in my happy zone.
I actually have two happy zones for barrel nut torque as steel nut on aluminum upper does not seem change as much as an aluminum nut on aluminum receiver. I have taken same brand uppers from same lot, same two barrels and assembled one using a steel nut, other an aluminum nut in single run up with same Snap-on torque wrench and then put in parts locker a month. When remove both will have wandered a bit but the aluminum nut will have dropped torque value a bit more.
I know some who wont reuse an upper receiver because their belief is after months or years of shooting the threads have stretched enough can't get an accurate torque but unless I do an interference fit where receiver to extension fit is so snug have to put barrel in freezer, receiver in oven and then tap barrel into place with a mallet I will reuse them. Some I do interference fit (couple of companies final machine slightly undersize nose on their receivers for people who want to pound barrel in with a hammer) and if those need rebarreling take off all reusable parts but dont try to get barrel out of receiver as have seen them break nose off even if heat it up before try to pull barrel.
Between a hammer together barrel/upper fit with my bedding compound once it's all snugged up the barrel and upper basically become a single piece. When see an AR 15 build like this of mine when barrel starts to loose accuracy the upper is so inexpensive I dont want to try and reuse it even if able to part the two as something likely stretched or was stressed in parting barrel and upper. Just put in locker with note saying it's for emergency use or a heavy barrel plinker if someone wants such. My guess is 50/50 will snap nose off receiver before barrel let's loose it took some effort to get the extension into upper on both builds did on matched pair of 24" WOA barrels. I dislike tolerance stack on precision rifles and build in some slop on SHTF rifles so they keep running when dirty, full of mud and need them to keep running.