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Err, umm, HOW does a 1911 become "C&R" just because it's made by DGFM-FMAP?...

Enquiring Minds

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Mebsuta

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I have a Sistema. It wasn't a collector's item when I bought it.

I would get a Tisas now and let interested parties scuffle over the collector's items.

C&R means diddly squat unless you have C&R license. I never had one. LGS wants 4473 anyway even if you do.
 
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adam6955

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I'm really not willing to sell to a C+R unless I know them from here or someplace personal because there is no easy way to verify the validity of the license. I suspect ATF makes it that way on purpose.
They have a phone number for FFL verification. Seems pretty easy.

Direct from EZ check when entering my C&R (which doesn’t come up of course):

You should not complete the transaction without first contacting ATF at 1-877-560-2435 for assistance.
 

Impala_Guy

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They have a phone number for FFL verification. Seems pretty easy.

Direct from EZ check when entering my C&R (which doesn’t come up of course):

You should not complete the transaction without first contacting ATF at 1-877-560-2435 for assistance.
Last few times I tried to call it, no one answered after I let it ring off the hook.
 

GSO

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Last few times I tried to call it, no one answered after I let it ring off the hook.
I was having problems talking to a human government employee at the ATF prior to the possible government shutdown on 17 November so I called that number. Prior to that, I could call the regular licensing number and a contractor would answer. They could verify that my FFL (01) was pending renewal but no other status. They transferred me to the Letter of Authorization number on a couple of times when I called and it went to voice mail with no return call or e-mail a couple of time.

I figured someone would answer the "don't complete the transaction number" and I did get to talk to a very nice lady after just a few rings on 13 November. I established that she was a government employee and explained my frustration trying to talk to a government employee rather than a contractor and that I felt sorry for the contractors not able to provide any more info than just "pending". She asked if I had talked to the examiner reviewing my license and I had no idea how to even find out who that was and how to reach them. She quickly looked it up and promised to get with her (first name "Blessing") and would send an e-mail shortly with status. I apologized for being an electrical engineer in my day job and suffering moderate social retardation and asked for her name so I could jot that down. She replied, "You don't need to jot it down, I'm Tracey Robertson, my signature is on your FFL." It was a "mike drop" moment. I asked what on earth the Chief was doing answering the "hotline" and she said they are short staffed, so she volunteered to do a shift answering the phone and it gave her a chance to get a feel for how things were going from the grass roots perspective. True to her word, she e-mailed me an LOA good for 6 months of operation within a half hour. About an hour after that, I got voicemail and e-mail from Blessing, the examiner, letting me know she had just finished the review and the new FFL would go out in the mail on 14 Nov. Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.... Mentioning this to a guy at work (as we talked about the potential shut down prior to the latest CR), did some math. Tracey and her minions are responsible for licensing about 130,000 FFLs (not sure about 03's, but this is the number that Google suggests as a total). Based on renewal every 3 years and approximately 250 Federal work days in a year, they would have to process about 174 licenses per day. Quite the workload...

TLDR: Yes, the ATF seems understaffed and very busy in the Industry Ops side.
 

Enquiring Minds

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Last few times I tried to call it, no one answered after I let it ring off the hook.
TLDR: Yes, the ATF seems understaffed and very busy in the Industry Ops side.
Oh yes, so "busy" I'll bet they're running themselves ragged, and losing a lot of weight! 😂😂😂

Phone rings "off the hook", and a US Citizen can't even leave an automated voicemail???? :poop:

Except for having to actually drive to a well-appointed air-conditioned building 4 to 5 days a week, having a .gov job is like early retirement with a cushy pension. I mean THINK about it: do you think .gov UNION employees have a "metric" for Customer Satisfaction? DOUBT IT! Do you think there's ANYTHING on their desktop 'puters that prevents them from surfing TikTok, InstaSham, Trivia.com, ALL friggin' day?? DOUBT IT!

PS: Aside from the obvious $$ grift, WHY does an FFL need to be "renewed" at all, ever? Are you telling me an FFL holder's going to commit A See-wee-ous Felony on Day 1, and it won't come to Duh ATFe-LGBTQ+- 's attention until 3 years later?? And in the meantime a Prohibited Person is going to be openly dealing firearms to his criminal buds from a storefront??? DOUBT IT! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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Impala_Guy

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I was having problems talking to a human government employee at the ATF prior to the possible government shutdown on 17 November so I called that number. Prior to that, I could call the regular licensing number and a contractor would answer. They could verify that my FFL (01) was pending renewal but no other status. They transferred me to the Letter of Authorization number on a couple of times when I called and it went to voice mail with no return call or e-mail a couple of time.

I figured someone would answer the "don't complete the transaction number" and I did get to talk to a very nice lady after just a few rings on 13 November. I established that she was a government employee and explained my frustration trying to talk to a government employee rather than a contractor and that I felt sorry for the contractors not able to provide any more info than just "pending". She asked if I had talked to the examiner reviewing my license and I had no idea how to even find out who that was and how to reach them. She quickly looked it up and promised to get with her (first name "Blessing") and would send an e-mail shortly with status. I apologized for being an electrical engineer in my day job and suffering moderate social retardation and asked for her name so I could jot that down. She replied, "You don't need to jot it down, I'm Tracey Robertson, my signature is on your FFL." It was a "mike drop" moment. I asked what on earth the Chief was doing answering the "hotline" and she said they are short staffed, so she volunteered to do a shift answering the phone and it gave her a chance to get a feel for how things were going from the grass roots perspective. True to her word, she e-mailed me an LOA good for 6 months of operation within a half hour. About an hour after that, I got voicemail and e-mail from Blessing, the examiner, letting me know she had just finished the review and the new FFL would go out in the mail on 14 Nov. Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.... Mentioning this to a guy at work (as we talked about the potential shut down prior to the latest CR), did some math. Tracey and her minions are responsible for licensing about 130,000 FFLs (not sure about 03's, but this is the number that Google suggests as a total). Based on renewal every 3 years and approximately 250 Federal work days in a year, they would have to process about 174 licenses per day. Quite the workload...

TLDR: Yes, the ATF seems understaffed and very busy in the Industry Ops side.
Reminds me of the old joke about the guy who applies for a job at the Federal building, and during the interview the hiring manager asks him if he has any disabilities that would prevent him from doing the job as an inter office courier. So the guy has to fess up that he was injured in an industrial explosion that left him with a slight limp and forced the doctors to castrate him. Couple days later the guy gets a call from the manager that he's gotten the job, and if possible could he start Monday at 10am. When he asks why 10am instead of 8, the hiring manager says, "well, to be truthful, down here at the Federal Government, we don't do anything for the first couple hours of every day except sit around, drink coffee and scratch our balls. No sense in you coming in for that."
 
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TerryN

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I'm really not willing to sell to a C+R unless I know them from here or someplace personal because there is no easy way to verify the validity of the license. I suspect ATF makes it that way on purpose.
And that's the problem with a C&R; Type 01 FFLs typically ignore them. When I had one, if an FFL wouldn't sell to me as a C&R holder, screw him. He won't ever sell anything to me.
 

tdb59

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And that's the problem with a C&R; Type 01 FFLs typically ignore them. When I had one, if an FFL wouldn't sell to me as a C&R holder, screw him. He won't ever sell anything to me.
While any FFL can cooperate with / ignore the 03s, I welcome their business.....( 07 here )
They tend to know what they want, and pay promptly.

YMMV, of course.
 

GSO

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While any FFL can cooperate with / ignore the 03s, I welcome their business.....( 07 here )
They tend to know what they want, and pay promptly.

YMMV, of course.
I don't mind 03's or even receiving from (most) individual sellers. Some of the individual sellers (GunBroker) and nearly all the Pawn Shops tend to pack things poorly and often mummify rifles in bubble wrap, shrink wrap, or use gallons of foam peanuts. It is almost always a pain to safely unwrap/unpack from them.
 

GSO

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Reminds me of the old joke about the guy who applies for a job at the Federal building, and during the interview the hiring manager asks him if he has any disabilities that would prevent him from doing the job as an inter office courier. So the guy has to fess up that he was injured in an industrial explosion that left him with a slight limp and forced the doctors to castrate him. Couple days later the guy gets a call from the manager that he's gotten the job, and if possible could he start Monday at 10am. When he asks why 10am instead of 8, the hiring manager says, "well, to be truthful, down here at the Federal Government, we don't do anything for the first couple hours of every day except sit around, drink coffee and scratch our balls. No sense in you coming in for that."
"How is a government employee like a shotgun with a broken trigger? Neither one works and you can't fire it."

Hahahaha. An old joke, and kind of cliche. Also not exactly true. I am a Supervisory Electronics Engineer in my day job and just yesterday fired a GS-12 that worked for me. Not at all something I enjoyed, but it needed done. It took me about 3 months of documentation and effort to establish that the employee had the opportunity but not ability to get the work done. I've seen it done a few times before either as an Army officer or as a civil service employee. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen if a supervisor takes their responsibilities seriously.

Oh yes, so "busy" I'll bet they're running themselves ragged, and losing a lot of weight! 😂😂😂

Phone rings "off the hook", and a US Citizen can't even leave an automated voicemail???? :poop:

Except for having to actually drive to a well-appointed air-conditioned building 4 to 5 days a week, having a .gov job is like early retirement with a cushy pension. I mean THINK about it: do you think .gov UNION employees have a "metric" for Customer Satisfaction? DOUBT IT! Do you think there's ANYTHING on their desktop 'puters that prevents them from surfing TikTok, InstaSham, Trivia.com, ALL friggin' day?? DOUBT IT!

PS: Aside from the obvious $$ grift, WHY does an FFL need to be "renewed" at all, ever? Are you telling me an FFL holder's going to commit A See-wee-ous Felony on Day 1, and it won't come to Duh ATFe-LGBTQ+- 's attention until 3 years later?? And in the meantime a Prohibited Person is going to be openly dealing firearms to his criminal buds from a storefront??? DOUBT IT! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I suppose these statements are made based on your extensive experience working in a government office?

Maybe I was not clear, or maybe you misunderstood, but I was able to leave a voicemail, but I did not get a return call or e-mail.

Many government agencies do have metrics for measuring customer satisfaction. My organization does, most of the Army garrison support activities do, military hospitals, the VA healthcare system, the list goes on and on. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

DoD, and I'm pretty sure most other .gov offices, DO have proxy servers that block access to inappropriate websites or content. Doubt all you want, but you would be wrong.

Finally, an FFL is a business license. 01 is a "Dealer", 07 is a "Manufacturer", etc. Like any business license, it is reviewed/renewed periodically to verify that business is still being conducted. There have been licenses not renewed when a "business" had lots of guns come in and none go out. Just like a farm or other business, there needs to be at least of pretense of trying to make money. Nothing prevents individuals from selling personal guns, but if you want to do so as a business, then the government will be in your business. That is true regardless of the product you sell. If you don't like that, then you need to start your own country.
 

Enquiring Minds

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OK, caaaalm down... actually it was @Impala_Guy who indicated ring-forever-NO-answer of any kind... and yes, I've had similar "high" levels of service from both State.gov and Fed.gov... glad your particular alphabet/dept. is more on the ball.

But worry not, I will git me a .gov job... as long as they have good wifi! I keed, I keed...
 

jdmcomp

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I'm really not willing to sell to a C+R unless I know them from here or someplace personal because there is no easy way to verify the validity of the license. I suspect ATF makes it that way on purpose.
If you check the ATF website you will see under easy check of a ffl license that you cannot verify an 03 in easy check so it states go ahead and take the signed copy. No problem
 

Strop10

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SBRs too? what about SBS? I thought a pre '98 snake charmer was exempt
Some stuff like shoulder stock FN P35 pistols are on an exempted list based on whims, but the pass/fail of pre 1898 is really whether it fires a cartridge or not.

Section 2.2 Antique firearm. Firearms defined by the NFA as “antique firearms” are not subject to
any controls under the NFA.22 The NFA defines antique firearms based on their date of manufacture
and the type of ignition system used to fire a projectile. Any firearm manufactured in or before 1898
that is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed
ammunition is an antique firearm. Additionally, any firearm using a matchlock, flintlock, percussion
cap or similar type ignition system, irrespective of the actual date of manufacture of the firearm, is also
an antique firearm.
NFA firearms using fixed ammunition are antique firearms only if the weapon was actually
manufactured in or before 1898 and the ammunition for the firearm is no longer manufactured in the
United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. To qualify as an
antique firearm, a fixed cartridge firing NFA weapon must meet both the age and ammunition
availability standards of the definition.
Concerning ammunition availability, it is important to note that a specific type of fixed ammunition that
has been out of production for many years may again become available due to increasing interest in
older firearms. Therefore, the classification of a specific NFA firearm as an antique can change if
ammunition for the weapon becomes readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
 

AFeod

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C&R means diddly squat unless you have C&R license. I never had one. LGS wants 4473 anyway even if you do.
this is the reason Ive kept my c&r… ifin there’s something that strikes my fancy I can buy it. Never had a problem with being “denied” by a seller…
 
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