EMP update

[C2A1]

I work with the guys on the congressional EMP group. Report was submitted to the WH and what was made public was watered down. To get the word out Dr Peter Pry has taken the committee's work and has had it publisihed. For the latest go to amazon and get "Apocalypse Unknown" by Peter Pry. It is non fiction what is going on book.
Some folks are taking this seriously. One group is the Texas Utility Board. They are working with the Texas electrical utilities to begin to harden the grid and to be able to "disconnect" from the non protected grids. North Carolina is looking at it, as is Maine. Texas being Texas however has the political will and independent thought and is proceeding, not just talking.
The other group which has a plan in place is CSX railroad. I can't get into the details but they have a SHTF plan in place. Given the telecom system will be down they will still have a 30% capacity and have worked a plan with certain refineries to provide power from the locomotives to keep the refinies up and move crude in exchange for fuel.
Just FYI.

 

[Jaxxas]

Sounds like something I'd like to read. But if he really wanted to get the word out, he would put it out on Kindle at $10 instead a $50 paperback.

 

[C2A1]

Good question, I'll ask when I see him.

 

[C2A1]

I talked with Dr. Pry last night and he said that it would be out in Kindle format shortly. He didn't have an exact date but he said that he hoped that it won't be long.

 

[L Haney]

... have worked a plan with certain refineries to provide power from the locomotives to keep the refinies up and move crude in exchange for fuel.

Not many people are aware of the electrical generation capacity of a locomotive engine. Much less twenty of them.

 

[xtremerange]

That makes sense. I knew a modern Diesel loco engine was basically just a generator with motorized wheels.

 

[Gary Harwell]

What's going to still need crude/ refined in a real EMP crisis? .gov?
Could see real utility in the locomotives in a solar flare crisis to keep things moving.

 

[Jaxxas]

I talked with Dr. Pry last night and he said that it would be out in Kindle format shortly. He didn't have an exact date but he said that he hoped that it won't be long.

Excellent, thank you!

 

[RG Coburn]

Locomotives produce DC power,no? Just like submarines?

 

[L Haney]

Locomotives produce DC power,no? Just like submarines?

Yes, the traction motors run on DC. Very easy to convert to 60hz AC these days. In a pinch the motors can be dismounted and used to drive alternators directly.

 

[C2A1]

The crude is for fuel for the railroad. Also they do not want the refinery cracking towers to go down ( takes months to bring them on line if the cat isn't damaged). At 30% capacity they will move food, fuel (agricultural) and critical items. Part of the plan is to not miss the next planting season.

 

[ByronF]

Locomotives produce DC power,no? Just like submarines?

Some AC, some DC. Most in the 4500-6000 hp range.

 

[2barearms]

They hold a bunch of Diesel also.

 

[Story]

Not many people are aware of the electrical generation capacity of a locomotive engine. Much less twenty of them.

That's real interesting - thanks.:whiskey:

Footnote readings for this thread :
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277940

Particularly this
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3391333&postcount=58

 

[C2A1]

I reviewed chapters but got my copies today. 385 pages, covers various potential diasters. Includes Dark winter bio attack and he does include Iranian current nuclear capablity ( russian devices). Has effects for different attacks ( ground, ballon, scud). Solar effects. Not for light bathroom reading but if you want to be up to speed in this area, good reference.

 

[L1A1rocker]

This great to hear. Someone that has answers to EMP questions that knows. Would you be willing to answer some questions?

I'm particularly interested in how to get a car going again in the event of an EMP. I've put some things away in a sealed steel safe like alternator, coil, etc but I'm not sure if it's everything I need.

I'm also curious about solar panals to recharge batteries. How do you harden or store solar panals for use post EMP event.

 

[tdb59]

Not many people are aware of the electrical generation capacity of a locomotive engine. Much less twenty of them.

My Dad has told me of using power from a Diesel locomotive when he was training in the Corps of Engineers at Ft. Belvoir in '43.
He did not say for what exact purpose.



:uhoh:

 

[RT]

we need to chip in and buy an atlas 4 silo. to keep us all safe. with all the eng's we have and wesogs here we can make rocket stoves and heaters. that burn wood. gas a fires for fuel. etc. with this old bunch we will make it for a long time, or until we run out of metlimusle.(sp) the drink that makes you go. reg. every day

 

[C2A1]

On autos, it is not a simple answer. It will depend on where the car is and it's orientation to the pulse source ( assuming EMP and not geomagnetic, different pulse shapes). New cars have redundent electronics built in, however they are interfaced so you may have your timing circuit make it but one brake system is fried. Or the whole system is fried, or the trannie is fried etc.
On older vehicles, pre 90s the real vulnerable peice is the ignition control box. Have a couple of spares in an ammo can. Point vehicles with a mechanical voltage regulator will fair well ( 1969 and earlierfor Chrysler). The alternator I have spare brushs and diodes in the box. Cars with generators will fair even better. Coils will be OK.
However the real nightmare is the actual wiring harness. This long piece of wire will soak up a lot of energy. That energy will go to the control box, instruments etc ( remember the gauges in the truck in close encounters ). Anyway, the harness may burn up. Again this will depend on te vehicle and orientation. Older vehicles with more metal to shield the guts will fair better. That is also an issue with house wiring. There will be a LOT of buildings burning.
Working with these guys has been interesting. One fellow ran the last EMP test to be conducted on a full system, in this case a command and control room. Test was run with folks at their posts. He said when the pulse was fired, the room became like you'd see in a sci-fi movie. The metal racks of radio end electronic gear had archs jumping around them, computer keyboards had fingers of electricity dancing across them. He said things protected by faraday cages didn't make it. Some people were shocked. I asked what made it. He laughed and said the old black govt rotary telephones.

 

[L1A1rocker]

On autos, it is not a simple answer. It will depend on where the car is and it's orientation to the pulse source ( assuming EMP and not geomagnetic, different pulse shapes). New cars have redundent electronics built in, however they are interfaced so you may have your timing circuit make it but one brake system is fried. Or the whole system is fried, or the trannie is fried etc.
On older vehicles, pre 90s the real vulnerable peice is the ignition control box. Have a couple of spares in an ammo can. Point vehicles with a mechanical voltage regulator will fair well ( 1969 and earlierfor Chrysler). The alternator I have spare brushs and diodes in the box. Cars with generators will fair even better. Coils will be OK.
However the real nightmare is the actual wiring harness. This long piece of wire will soak up a lot of energy. That energy will go to the control box, instruments etc ( remember the gauges in the truck in close encounters ). Anyway, the harness may burn up. Again this will depend on te vehicle and orientation. Older vehicles with more metal to shield the guts will fair better. That is also an issue with house wiring. There will be a LOT of buildings burning.
Working with these guys has been interesting. One fellow ran the last EMP test to be conducted on a full system, in this case a command and control room. Test was run with folks at their posts. He said when the pulse was fired, the room became like you'd see in a sci-fi movie. The metal racks of radio end electronic gear had archs jumping around them, computer keyboards had fingers of electricity dancing across them. He said things protected by faraday cages didn't make it. Some people were shocked. I asked what made it. He laughed and said the old black govt rotary telephones.

Thank you very much for the info. I'm surprised that coils made it. What I've got that I think could be put back into service the easiest is a 1977 Corvette. (I wish it was a 77 pickup but it belonged to my late father and I'm not getting rid of it) I've got a steel, inground safe that is just sitting on the floor. In that I've placed, in their cardboard boxes, a coil, ignition module, starter seleniod, and alternator. I then put the steal cover plate on it and taped it up with metal foil tape. I was considering putting in a windshield wiper motor also but haven't gotten around to it. From what you say I may still have a problem as the fiberglass will not shield the wiring harness.

I've also got a 1994 Suburban but discounted it because it does have a computer on it and an in tank electric fuel pump. My 2003 Excursion was also discounted do to massive electronics in it.

Do you have any suggestions for additional safeguards I could take? Regarding the solar panels. If they were left in their original packaging and wrapped up in aluminum foil like a present would they be ok? Oh, and one more question. Military steel ammo cans have a rubber gasket. If I'm putting anything in one of those should it be sealed up with metal foil tape?

Thank you very much for taking the time to post this information.

 

[Roadmarker]

As long as the metal overlaps it should be no problem. A chicken wire cage will work also, it doesn't have to be a continueous sheild. We're talking about a Faraday cage.

 

[L Haney]

A chicken wire cage will work also, it doesn't have to be a continueous sheild. We're talking about a Faraday cage.

Might want to rethink that one. The 'pulse' part of EMP is the kicker. The rise time of the pulse is the reciprocal of the frequency. Get that fast enough and chicken wire might as well be tissue paper.

A nuke derived EMP pulse is quite good on achieving a spectacularly short rise time.

Distance is your friend in addition to shielding. Penetration through soil with a normal moisture content is also limited.

 

[Roadmarker]

You bring up some interesting questions concerning EMP.
A faraday cage shields the interior from external electromagnetic radiation if the conductor is thick enough and any holes are significantly smaller than the wavelength of the radiation. Grounding is also a must.
So it's a matter of the conductivity of the cage, thickness of wire, or the distance between conductors? What good would mylar do if it is about the conductivity or capacity to bleed away all those "extra' electrons?
Would a layered approach afford more protection?
I guess the amount of energy released by the event would be the key. Distance as mentioned would be another. We can't control those variables, so what is the standard to which we should prepare against? Some guidelines would be a very good start.
Interesting topic to say the least.

 

[L1A1rocker]

Bump

 

[Slo cat]

I have a shop/garage building that has a steel roof and walls. It is grounded too. Except for it's floor (earth and part reinforced concrete), two smallish windows and garage doors, it is steel covered. Can I expect some shielding from this?