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Combat load??

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gunplumber

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Artful said:
How about on your pack? are you using Molle? or just GI belt w/ suspenders?

Other thoughts would be like I see with some of the 3 gun crowd with drop leg mag pouches, Or see about a vest with movable gear and keep the belt for smaller stuff.

Got a picture of what you are wearing when loaded up?
I suspect that the drop leg pouches are best for those not moving around too much. AC crew, swat teams, stuff like that.

20 miles through heavy brush and high humidity I suspect will leaves massive welts and infected sores where all that crap was fastened to the legs. At least, it did for me 20 years ago when I was ninja-warrior
 

Treborer

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Just read this somewhere, I'll paraphrase: If it takes a 3 round burst from an M4
to stop a man, that's 10 trigger pulls per 30 round mag.

If a 7.62 stops the fight with one shot, then you have 20 trigger pulls per mag.

Twice the effective firepower?

:p
 

goldenspurholderx2

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i think you should stick with whatever is comfortable for you. i'd prefer a chest harness right now because i spend a lot of time cramped in the back of a bradley fighting vehicle. during my first three years in the army i was a "light" scout for an infantry brigade in alaska and H suspenders where king with the pouches moved to the side of front and higher up on the waist as not to interfere with your poles while cross country skiing. leg drops kill my leg out here when i'm dismounted because it keeps slapping no matter how tight i think i get it.
 

Opie

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I re-read this thread, and am reminded of some things that the "uber mall ninja" said earlier...and please keep in mind that I'm not stirring shyte.

"I'm sure that GP is a dude who's BTDT and all - but so was my grandad. You know what he could teach you about modern warfare?
Nada."

GP is still here to tell us about it, and so is your granddad. I'd say that they've both have at least one thing to teach you: Surviving. They did so, and in far worse conditions then today. I'm willing to bet that your Granddad is a wealth of knowledge on warfare. He's BTDT, and I'd listen if I were you; I sure listened to my Grandfather when he was alive. Not a whole lot has changed in regards to tactics....just equipment and technology.

Is all the new equipment and Technology superior? In some things, yes. In other cases, no. Take a look at Afghanistan; The "uber sooper-dooper M-4" is not filling the bill in regards to range. What is you ask? the "obsolete" M-14 is proving that it is more then up to that particular task. Just because it isn't brand-new doesn't mean that it doesn't work. I'd personally choose an "obsolete" rifle that can hit much farther then the new gee-whiz guns that are out there any day.

This is not meant as a flame, or anything of that nature. It is just an observation. Ronin, I wish you luck in your up-coming career and strongly urge you to listen to your NCO's; I will bet that most of them have BTDT, and they have real-world knowledge. Don't discount something because it's old; an "obsolete" bolt-action rifle more then likely outranges the M-4/M-16 that you'll probably be packing. Good Luck to you.
 

CAG100

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This is indeed a good thread with lots of revelent info! :bow:

I have never received any real training in ground tactics, other then escape/evasion, so I have no real world knowledge or experience in this, other then commonsense and what I have read mixed with a very small amount of experience.

I'd like to ask, what is a recommended load to carry in (and attached to) a smaller patrol pack (w/100oz hydration) for a combat load, for running day and night patrols out from a base camp, leaving the larger rucksack, with the main supplies, behind at the camp (assume the patrols to occur daily at various times of the year)...

Just off the top of my head, perhaps...

Medical Kit
Extra Ammo
Extra Rations
Extra Canteen
Night Vision Unit (for night patrols)
Entrenching Tool
Parachute Flares (for night patrols)
Pair of Binoculars (for day patrols)
Small Cleaning Kit
Elevation/Area Map
550 Parachute Cord
Water Purification Pills
Smoke/CS Grenade(s?)
Several Empty Sandbags


To much? To little? Impractical? Any feedback from any of you is most welcome.
 
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gunplumber

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It doesn't even have to be me - Heck, like I WANT more work?

But right now if John Doe starts a wonderful thread with thousands of contributers, then John Doe can still delete the whole thing - losing the collective contributions of hundreds of folks.

But if there is a new persona invented - which I suggest to be an Icon of a dictionary style book with "FAL FILES REFERENCE" as the title, then all the sticky's can be attributed to that persona. Nobody can delete it, and anyone wanting to brose the reference section can search on that user name.


Thus there is an awesome thread on fal thread pitches like Derek started last year, instead of 50 posts each with a small contribution, it can be a single post with all of the data listed in a a logical manner. The end of the post can include a list of contributers to that data.

Finally, since the organizing is done under the name " Fal Files Reference" we would be dealing with a persona who does not engage in discussions or debates, so remains a "neutral" party.

I did it before when Jen had me cleaning up HKWeaponsystems.com as a moderator years ago - seemed to work pretty well at the time.
 

medicman

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rgkeller said:
Came on this site to learn something about the FAL and came upon this thread. My experience goes back several decades into the LBE and ALICE ruck era. No vests back in those ancient times.

I do remember vividly trying to disappear into the ground when incoming showed up unexpectedly. My units SOP for a patrol load out had nothing on the chest or the front of the hips - except a small pouch holding the large bandage everyone carried.

It would seem to me that the bulky magazine and other pouches carried on the chest would make it difficult to get into a really really deep prone position at the times when such a position would be very helpful to maintaining one's combat capability.

Or am I missing something and should chuck the old belt and suspenders set up from back in the day?
I don't think you are missing anything at all. I'm not HSLD like the " mall ninja", I use a tt mav 2 piece because of the ability to open it up and "become one with the dirt" for lack of better terms.
 

gunplumber

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medicman said:


I don't think you are missing anything at all. I'm not HSLD like the " mall ninja", I use a tt mav 2 piece because of the ability to open it up and "become one with the dirt" for lack of better terms.
In George's "Shots fired in Anger" about the Japs on guadalcanal, he had a very positive analysis of their load carrying gear - that the cartridge boxes could be rotated outweard to avail a lower prone position.


The earth is your friend. And a few inches can make the difference between annoyance and ventilation.
 

mr fixit

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gunplumber said:
It doesn't even have to be me - Heck, like I WANT more work?

But right now if John Doe starts a wonderful thread with thousands of contributers, then John Doe can still delete the whole thing - losing the collective contributions of hundreds of folks.

But if there is a new persona invented - which I suggest to be an Icon of a dictionary style book with "FAL FILES REFERENCE" as the title, then all the sticky's can be attributed to that persona. Nobody can delete it, and anyone wanting to brose the reference section can search on that user name.


Thus there is an awesome thread on fal thread pitches like Derek started last year, instead of 50 posts each with a small contribution, it can be a single post with all of the data listed in a a logical manner. The end of the post can include a list of contributers to that data.

Finally, since the organizing is done under the name " Fal Files Reference" we would be dealing with a persona who does not engage in discussions or debates, so remains a "neutral" party.

I did it before when Jen had me cleaning up HKWeaponsystems.com as a moderator years ago - seemed to work pretty well at the time.
Since I am the "John Doe" in question here, I will state that I will not delete this thread. It has changed greatly from what I origianlly intended, but it has a wealth of info in it regardless.

My question to Mark, and others if they know, can I as the auther do what Mark is talking about? Can the auther "edit" the thread?

Scott
 

gunplumber

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mr fixit said:
My question to Mark, and others if they know, can I as the auther do what Mark is talking about? Can the auther "edit" the thread?
Scott
You can only delete and/or edit your own posts. If the thread starter deletes the first message of the thread, the entire thread gets deleted.
 

Willard

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Rawles said:
Viewed another way, the load should not exceed 30 percent of a person’s body weight when carrying an approach march load. Dean’s team weighed and photographed troops at every level, from wearing only their basic uniforms and boots to what they carried for their emergency approach march loads for 29 different positions in rifle companies. [/B]

You know, my equipment was weighed and photographed for that study in 1988 when my Bn was deployed to Fort Chafee, Ark for JRTC (since moved to Ft Polk LA) My LBE weighed something in the area of 40 pounds sans M-60. My ruck was over 80 pounds as I recall. The folks weighing everything were constantly talking about howmuch everyhting weighed when they were struggling to get it up in the hook to weigh it. They did weigh a sample of everyone-SAW gunner, rifleman, grenadier, RTO, etc.

This is the first time Ive seen any of the results.

Leg pouches, as GP has said, generally beat the hell out your legs if you are walking much in them. The leg panels with kevlar are a great idea, though. I know of at least wo folks who may be alive if they had them.

A lot of what you can carry depends upon your conditioning. As a young fit fellow I still sufferred from back and shoulder paing while humping heavy loads. Also, if you are the Alpha male of a family unit humping a ton of stuff, you will not be hyper alert and vigilant after a few days.

For me my camping pack, a chest pouch with 8 FAL mags, and one in the rifle is enough. I have an old single shot boys .22 that breaks down on the outside of the pack with a few hundred .22's. No .45 or Glock. Couple of bandoleers in the pack for the FAL.

Also, I did see a while back that the Ranger Regt was using ammunition carts to carry 120mm mortar ammo-the mortars have wheels and they were pushing/pulling the mortars on a road march, too. They looked a lot like the old WWII ammo carts.

Mark, are the two books you have referenced available that you know of? I haven't seen them around-that would be the "With Ordinance to the Front" and the jungle lessons. Thanks.

Blackhawk chest rig, holds eight FAL mags. I can wear this under my backpack, I shot practical rifle matches with it on, I like it.



AR pouch rig. This is more of a sustainment-BO kit.



My old school LBE I used to wear in the Army. I have trained with this worn over a chest rig, so you can dump the LBE and shoot in just the chest deal...Still feels like an old friend when I put it on-although I don't know when I took off the H suspenders and put those Y ones one.....

 
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gunplumber

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Both "A rifleman Went to War" by McBride
and
"Shots Fired in Anger" by George are out of print.

I think "With ordnance up front" is as well.

My copies are reprints from the NRA classics library
 
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