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Combat load??

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Ronin556

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Gunplumber,

Am I the only person who noticed you didn't have a real, arguable position on dump pouches vs. carabiners other than "I'll stick to what I know works"?

If we stuck to what we knew worked, we'd still be on horseback.
I'll get back to you when I've got a combat patch.

HepD
Unfortunately, though, practice and training take blood, sweat and tears, and they don't stock it in the Blackhawk Industries catalog.
Couldn't agree more. I do hundreds of reps per week on my reloads, malfs and dry practice.
I think had my ideas been recieved with something other than hostility, you guys would probably find me an entirely different character.
Also, I believe that if Gunplumber were the "new guy" here, (and half his age, which I am) he'd probably be the one getting shit-kicked for his opinion on the matter. Take away the names, and I'll bet you find a lot more people who know wtf they are doing agree that a dump pouch is a valuable asset.

That said, I don't see why you guys keep bringing up something that I admitted didn't qualify me to speak. Keep in mind, I'm at the beginning of my career as many of you round your last curve. I'll learn from those who are "up to date" or in the know - basically, those who are still learning teachers - a group which GP is NOT a member, by his blatant ignorance with statements like "I'll stick to what I know" and insulting attitude.
I'll willing to wager he isn't what he claims.

Farmer from hell,
Much of my learning has been from the same guy, and I gave credit to his website which provided that picture. I've got no desire to drag him into my frays, but you're quite right - I'm not him, and wouldn't claim to be.
That said, this mag pull wasn't "My" Idea - it was someone from TCT's, I tried it and found it works WAY better than the loops FOR ME.

Sorry to those of you who've taken offense - if you can, put yourself in the place of a new guy who's getting the dogsnot torn out of him by some guy who thinks he's Yoda of the gun world because he was in the military.
 

moonbat60

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Hey guys !

Pretty interesting thread that you've got going on here.

From my past with long range recon patrols, let me point out what has been said on here : You can't prepare for each and every situation coming up on the horizon. In most of the caeses, you are either " overprepared " ( carrying too much gear around ) or " underprepared " ( carrying not enough gear or not the right gear ) Gear includes ammo.

When we went out on a let's say 3 day patrol, I used to pack a ParaFAL, 8+1 magazine for the rifle, boxed ammo in small boxes of 20 rds ( the way milsurp ammo comes ) , rations for 3 days and the other stuff, such as socks , underwear, 3 to 4 hand grenades ( not an issue here ) , and a FN HP with 3 to 4 loaded mags, survival and first aid kit.

My backpack could be dropped off, in case I needed to go a little lighter , so I could go basically with the belt , pouches and suspenders.

I used to load the first round in the rifle mag ( last round when shot ) , as tracer, so I knew when the mag was empty.

At the time when I humped all that gear , tactical vests and hydration packs were non existent .

I'd also like to point out that you get yourself a couple of good boots and break them in. Waterproof them. See that they are comfortable and that you could do a couple of miles in them in full gear without your feet hurting after two miles.

Also, do not forget navigation equipment. Scout your area and look for places where you and others with you could hide out for shorter or longer periods of time. Take two decent compasses with you, and maybe a few maps.

With LRRPs we were also supposed to use " enemy " weapons , so, if we ran out of ammo, we still had something to fight with. Pack at least 3 different knives, and if your rifle can take it, a bayonet as well.

A LRRP's equipment could exceed well about 100 or 150 lbs in wartime. If you can " conduct operations " from a vehicle or a " base / camp / hideout " , drop off your gear whenever you can. As soon as you can , rearm and refill .

Now I carry a 70 oz hydration pack, and a mag carrier pouch such as a " 6 - pack " with a shoulder strap for a quick and easy grab.

My .02

:fal:

Pete
 

gunplumber

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I don't have a problem with a dump pouch - in theory.

In practice, however, I don't think its practical.

where are you going to put it? Every inch of my harness had something on it. with an M16 2x canteens, butpack, 4x mag pouches, compass, knife, battle dressing. pen light, strobe light, motorola, smoke grenades, frag grenades (?). Law rocket, or AT4, or 60mm mortar round, or 84 mm KG round, or belt of ammo for the weapon squad . With an M249 substitute 2x drums for the 4x mag pouches. With an M60 substitue 2 x mag pouches, T&E and 2x demo bags with 480 rounds and sidearm for the 4x mag pouches (although I've had some luck with the bianchi shoulder rig) and don't have to carry mortar, 84mm, or AT.. So where does it go?

And as anothe poster mentioned, every available container has something stuffed in it. Since one only needs it empty when one has empty mags, and one only has empty mags after you are already in a bad way, I do not see carrying around an empty container for a rare event to be practical.

I used to stuff the empties inside my jacket - the web belt kept them from falling out. But now with body armor being standard attire, that option is ruled out.

Thus leaving

1) reinsert in mag pouch. This takes time, and you may need to have your eyes on something else, and it allows for the possibility of withdrawing an empty mag.

2) ditch the mag. This supplies your enemy and may be embarrassing if your resupply is ammo but no mags.

3)snap onto a carabiner for careful upside down insertion in mag pouch at a future time.

4) ????


edited to add: yes, I know a auto rifleman or machinegunner doesn't need a place to stick mags he doesn't carry. The illustration was meant to emphasise just how much stuff an infantryman carries, without adding an empty dump-bag.
 
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SHARPSHOOTER

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I have never been in special operations, but I have been in combat mind you it was before I guess I even knew what a dump pouch was or maybee I was not high speed enough to know what a dump pouch was, but we used to just stuff empty mags in an empty cargo pocket or your jacket like GP said. When I worked for the DOC and I was on the SORT team at the facility where I worked I still did not have a use for a dump pouch because we had a very specific equipment loadout for our mission and when I was in Iraq the time I was in the field or on the road going somewhere I did not have any room or need for a dump pouch. I was too busy carrying all the loaded mags and other mission essential items I could stuff into my gear. I do not even think a dump pouch is a good idea in training because we always trained under the old cliche "You fight like you train and you train like you fight." There are a lot of people here who have been there and done that some real operators as it were. You could learn a lot from them I know I have.
 

doktor_ecchs

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In regards to "old school versus new" a quote comes to mind:" Old age and treachery will always triumph over youth and skill". I don't know who said it but I've found it to be true over and over again...

as ever,
Dr. X :fal:
 

moonbat60

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Hey Dr. X !

Very true, that quote......... personally, I was at my very prime in my 30's, when I gained more experience about life's ups and downs. Being skilled and gung - ho doesn't cut it, because there might always be someone to outsmart you.

In Germany I've heard the saying : " The younger foxes might be quicker, but the older ones know their burrows a lot better " . LOL !

Right now, as I'm in my mid 40's, I wish I would be as energetic as at age 25 or so. I'd be raising hell in a handbasket....... :smile:


:fal:

Pete
 

gunplumber

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Least I ain't a poser like some of you old fools.


There I was . .. . knee deep in handgrenade pins . . . .




I know PLENTY of prior services jackoffs that don't know rat shit from rice crispies, let alone what's REALLY effective in tactical shooting. If you were combat arms, and you were current, you'd have a much better idea of what's going on in the tactical world..

Well, I probably have more time in a T-10 then he's got in a T-shirt, but its getting a bit tedious - maybe time for that ignore button.

Or maybe I'll sic Rambette, the pirate from Hell on him . .. . .





Everything I know I learned on Miami Vice

 

Sword of Laban

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GP thanks for the carabineer idea, I was Air Force and we seem to have missed that trick. I hated my dump pouch, too many important things to pack around without having a big assed empty pouch hanging there. I used my cargo pockets as well. KA poser picks! What a cutie!!

Ronin, TI would be embarrassed for you brother. I actually thought you must be joking but then I remembered some of the non flying officers in the AF and figured hey this guy is not only for real but he will probably fit in. The reason that you have garnered so little support in this thread may have something to do with the fact that you come across as a stark raving lunatic. Obsessive compulsive disorder can come in useful sometimes but really no one gives a rip about your dump pouch. You want a dump pouch, go for it. Personally I think the kindness that GP and the others have shown you in this thread may have simply been to give you enough rope to hang yourself with, and boy did you!

I still find it difficult to believe you could possibly be this persistent and blatantly offensive. Perhaps you will take this as constructive criticism but I have a feeling that you will not. Yes this is the same SoL.
 

762 shooter

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Ronin, you are a stand up guy. It takes character to type what you just typed. Welcome to the files. :beer:
All of my mags go on the shooting bench to be reloaded when I'm done if anyone cares.
 

Sayeret Tzanhanim

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Man, did this turn into a dick-wagging contest or what?

Ronin556, just drop it.I'm sure you'll great and wonderful Tier-one things...

Gunplumber, man do you still have that hook in your mouth. C'mon, brother-man - you're above that shite.

GP - load tailored to the mission - very good point.
I've used LBE/LBV with 13 mags and a grenade pouch on the right (good for carrying Copehangen - cause to tell the truth, I have never thrown a grenade at a living person)

Most recently, 12 rounds 5.56, One smoke, one frag, MBTR, 3 mags 9mm, 1st Aid, etc

Scenario bags are a great idea - marked and packed

The minimum load I think should be 200 of whatever your long gun is
Like many here, I have used M16/M4 for the last 20 years so that is the weapon I am comfortable with
FAL would be my second choice - but I need to fine tune and shoot it much more before I completely trust it. Nothing personal...I love that gun.

About the mag pulls, I've found its better to have only one mag pull on one mag per pouch - Under stress, I have pulled out a handful of mags before! Very embarrassing.

I always used my left side cargo pouch for mag dump. Its only for tactical reloads anyway. A no-shit mag change and I let it drop

All of this is just technique. It all works if you train with it. You want to hear a group of grown-up men squabble like children, just ask them some CQB advice

"Stack on door knob or hinges? Breacher number one or two man or opposite"?
Hoooly shit.
 

gunplumber

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762 shooter said:
Um, Ronin accepted responsibility for his shite. Handed out decent apologies. I think they should be graciously accepted.
Uh - which post was that?


This one?

I bet less than half of you actually know wtf you're talking about, or have seen a combat loadout in the last 20 years. . .. Least I ain't a poser like some of you old fools. Just because you slow-fire at the range once a month, you're in the know? I know PLENTY of prior services jackoffs that don't know rat shit from rice crispies . .. Being prior serivce REMF's from the 80's doesn't exactly put you at the top of the heap, did you know that?
 

Sayeret Tzanhanim

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Ronin556

Don't sweat it dude. I think it happens to everybody their first few posts. Recently I started posting on AR15,com after being a member for a few years.
Man, those dudes are pretty highstrung:

"Ooh! Ooh! should I get the rail-covers in Coyote-tan or in Dark-earth"?
"Get Dark-earth man, Coyote is sooo Enduring Freedom"!
"No f*ck, you...Coyote tan has served the special operations community with distinctionblahblahblah..."
:rolleyes:

One dude didn't like the vertical fore-grip I use because it looked "horrible"

For f*ck's sake

I use it cuz it don't break off. Took it off my M4 and now it's back on my CAR-15

There are quite a few ninja-fags over there.
Welcome aboard.
We're not so self-impressed over here.
ST
:whiskey:
 

Sword of Laban

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I have been in pissing contests and been 100% wrong as well. You take a gut check once you pull your head out of your ass and man up, Ronin mostly did that now but really needs to abase himself at GP's feet a bit first. I don’t know GP personally but he has always impressed me with his knowledge and ability to not get worked up.

AR15.com, I avoid that place like the plague, I think a lot of the boy's over there think their weapons are sex aids.

Great advise on the situation bags, I am going over my gear and am going to rebuild my load outs using that suggestion. Light , Medium and hvy. LBE with 4 mags, Chest rig with six and LBV with 8 or 14? LBV iss MOLLE so I can swap the pouches around quickly. 14 FAL Mags, I had better be defending.

Being a ex maintenance puke its not like I am going to be called up to do a combat patrol but if a disaster, what have you happens it doesn’t hurt to look like I know what the hell I’m doing. I do use the Hvy load at tactical rifle match one way range. I don’t get things done quite as fast as the lightly encumbered folks but I also don’t get penalties for exposing myself to threats. Take my time quickly engage “threats” as they come up while using cover from the other targets. Unless things really get messed up here in the US0fA that’s the only type of combat shooting I will ever see.

Not totally posing but still not anything like the real thing, just training.



 

gunplumber

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Ronin mostly did that now but really needs to abase himself at GP's feet a bit first

Not necessary, nor desired.

But I haven't seen anything that even vaguely resembles an apology to the whole group of members to whom he directed his filthy diatribe. I am curious what you and 7.62 shooter are viewing as an apology.

By the way, kudos to you. Train as you will fight - some of the shooting course I have attended had students wearing the most interesting gear - quick draw speed stuff. I typically wear what I would normall wear. Sure, its slower to draw from concealment if you have to sweep a jacket and use an IWB holster, but who walks through the grocery store with a thigh holster (well, this is AZ, and I have seen it. . . .. . including a security guard carrying a Gerber Mk II in a calf holster. I asked if he was going to stab the shoplifter on Isle 3 . . .?)

Speed is a function of economy of movement and repetiton. I used to do revolver drills at a friend's place and he had a a little bucket on a pedestal next to the shooting station he used for dumping his cylinder. We were at a different range doing el presidente drillls and he faltered because he had trained himself to "save his brass" and was looking for his dump bucket!
 

idsubgun

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Thanks for the pics.

I know the tape is sticky but what prevents the para cord from being pulled free from the tape? I guess the good GI green duct tape will hold it and as everyone knows, the longer that shit's stuck to something, the harder it is to get off. Just seems if you were a wee bit stressed, you could pull one side of the para cord off.
 

JoeLad

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idsubgun said:


I know the tape is sticky but what prevents the para cord from being pulled free from the tape? I guess the good GI green duct tape will hold it and as everyone knows, the longer that shit's stuck to something, the harder it is to get off.
That's a no shitter there. Last year I bought some used M16 mags on eGay from a Marine out in San Diego. Most had the OD green duct tape on them, with busted para cord still attached. It made me wonder how the cord was broken, and just when/where it happened. And getting the tape off was a PITA.

JoeLad:D
 

gunplumber

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kindof hard to tell from the pic - but the way I do it is 1 -1/2 wraps of 1/2 width OD Duct tape with the ends of the cord facing the bottom of the mag and flush with the bottom and the loop to the top.

Then fold the loop down and 1-1/2 more wraps. This way, the cord can't come off unless the tape itself is torn off with it.

I've seen AR mags with a knot through the hole in the floorplate, but I don't think this gives enough of a loop.
 

Sword of Laban

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Totally agree TS! That’s why I went with coyote, didn’t want the real warriors to think I was light in the loafers just because I don’t know s&!^. My magpulls are green tape though…

Having respect for my BTDT advisers who through my introduction to EBR suggested I train how I would fight I have strove to do just that. Lots of good competitors have suggested that I use more match specific speed gear, I am always close to really good times. Great guys that I do respect but I am not there to win the competition but to shoot in damn uncomfortable positions at targets that present minimal opportunity to engage, are always in surprising locations and somewhat resemble in a faint way a combat type environment.

GP you are right, he really didn’t come out and apologize to the huge number of people he degraded in his posts. He only started admitting that he was not the god of war. The fact that he was putting down veterans pissed me off even more and just saying sorry is not nearly enough, thus the abasement comment. Crapping on been their done that’s is inexcusable behavior. Even in the rare cases that you are right it still shows poor judgment, a lack of class and honor to call them old fools.
 

AGC

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gunplumber said:
kindof hard to tell from the pic - but the way I do it is 1 -1/2 wraps of 1/2 width OD Duct tape with the ends of the cord facing the bottom of the mag and flush with the bottom and the loop to the top.

Then fold the loop down and 1-1/2 more wraps. This way, the cord can't come off unless the tape itself is torn off with it.

I've seen AR mags with a knot through the hole in the floorplate, but I don't think this gives enough of a loop.

I actively discouraged my soldiers from doing the "knot under the floorplate" loop. I've seen a bunch of magazines rigged this way that ended up unserviceable. Sometimes they were salvageable with a new floorplate; sometimes the floorplate retention tabs were broken.

The tape attachment seems a better idea, especially the double wrapping. The zip-tie stiffener sounds like it's worth trying as well.
 

STGThndr

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Well, after all of that.... what can I say??? What Ive used for many years... since the early '80's, is EITHER- Chicom six mag chest pouch filled with 30 rnd AR mags or with 30 rnd AK mags, plus the one in the gun. Also a Makarov or an S&W .38 snubbie.
I've used all these things over the years, trust them (and me) and appreciate the relative weight savings. My HKs, M1A, .45 autos, BHP etc etc are for using and enjoying but the facts is all that truck is too heavy/bulky to lug for long at my age. The AR Bushie carbine is the lightest and most ergonomic- while I have trusted my life to the AK and can use it in my sleep. Both are "stock".
Pistol use? Appendages when I have my rifle and smaller is good enuff. My tune may change if faced with stopping mobs of rape-crazed New Orleanians from 100 yards after my rifle runs dry...
These weapons are in good ballistic nylon carry cases with pouches on the sides, cleaning kit and the pistols. A handful but all there and good to go. The wife knows what and where should she get a call for my "briefcase". A Cold Steel knife is with each, and a small stone is in my duty bag.
The pull-tab on the mags... that will be done to mine soon.. and the ammo carton with extra loaded mags.. Wonder why I never considered that before?!?? I hate friggin loose ammo in my pockets.
 
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