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Combat load??

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mr fixit

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Not sure what to call it maybe combat load fits, maybe not. The question is this;
in making preps for 'whatever', what would be the "must have minimum" of stuff per weapon. Not what type, or which one is best/better.

For instance: Rifle, cleaning kit, 3 mags(loaded), 100rounds on strippers, bandolier.

Does that sound like enough, too much? how much of each do you/would you want?

I guess the senario I'm wondering about would be something where you are carrying what you 'need'. Maybe your scouting around your home/base and can go back for more, but have only what's on your back for immediate use.

And, for at least the time being, I'm asking only about weapons. Not concerned with food/shelter/first aid/radio or anyting else here. Just trying to keep it simple for now, onr thing at a time.

Over the last few years, I'v been accumulating rifles that I've wanted, but never really got all the other stuff that goes with 'em. Now, I'm trying to by the accutrements.

I'm posting this on a couple boards, to see what different answeres I get.
 

JoeLad

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I'd say minimum 6 magazines per weapon, preferably more. If it's 7.62, it can get heavy pretty quickly. You can carry more 5.56. The Otis cleaning kits are small, and take up little room. That's it for close in work. Add more stuff for longer patrols.

JoeLad :D
 

mosbysmen

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a lot of people like to throw out different numbers , ask them if they have ever carried that much..
figure out what you are going to carry the stuff in l.b.e , vest .. ect .
load it up and see how it feels after a 5 mile hike .
 

doktor_ecchs

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From what I've read, in Vietnam each man carried 200 rounds of .223. Bump that up to .308, and, like mosbysmen said, your lugging an awful big assault load. THAT said, I have 10 mags in my BOB, that's 200 rounds, plus the spare parts /cleaning kit, etc. This is not counting my LC harness with canteens, knife, pistol and extra rounds. I haven't done the five-mile-mosey yet, humpin' all this crap, but I'm slowly workin' up to it. I also take my FAL when I make my evening rounds, no sling, carried in my hands...

as ever,
Dr. X :fal:
 

JoeLad

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mosbysmen said:
a lot of people like to throw out different numbers , ask them if they have ever carried that much..
figure out what you are going to carry the stuff in l.b.e , vest .. ect .
load it up and see how it feels after a 5 mile hike .
I carried 7 mags of 5.56, two USGI canteens, first aid kit, bayonet, flak jacket, steel pot, and M16 quite easily. Of course that was over 20 years ago, but the USGI LBE still works as well as it did then.

Each individual needs to figure out their own ability to carry equipment. If it's too heavy, hurts your neck/back/knees, lighten the load, or try something new. Walk and or run wearing the gear to get used to it. It helps to be in somewhat good cardio health.

JoeLad:D
 

Ronin556

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Typically:
12+1 for a 5.56 caliber M4/M16 (390 rounds+20 tracers)
8+1 for a 7.62 caliber FAL/M14/G3 (180 rounds)
8+1 for a 7.62 Sov. caliber AK/AKM/AK74 (270 rounds)

Since I've changed to a plate carrier from an LBV, I've been forced to reduce my overall load to:
10+1 for the M4 (330 rounds+20 tracers)
6+1 for the FAL (140 rounds)
6+1 for the AK (210 rounds)

Your kit has a lot to do with how you set your fighting load. It's really kind of hard to get into what you're kit will consist of until you've settled on what you're looking for, what you want it to do, what type of situation you're preparing for etc... First place to start is decide if you want a vest, chest harness, LBE, or plate carrier, then start thinking about how much of what you want to carry.

I hope this helps.
 

BlackCat

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I like to keep a spare 10 round mag for the 10/22 in my left cargo pocket when I'm expecting attacks on the perimeter by armadillos or stray dogs.
The combat has occasionally gotten pretty crazy, and when the shit hits the fan I'm always glad I have it.

:skull:

Otherwise I crave the third world rubber-shoed commando mystique. A camera vest with 3 AK mags or a couple of socks secured to my belt with Alice hangers does me right.

Word to your moms.
 

stormtrooper

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If I'm trying to stay light (meaning no shoulder bag with the option to go and get it with extra supplies, ammo, mags, etc.) Then this is my chosen setup;

FAL with 1 20 rd mag
6 20rd mags in a chest rig
Pistol with 4 mags

This fully meets the objective of make and break contact when your by yourself.
 

gunplumber

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There are too many variables for one pat answer. Deliberate ops require a different combat load than say an observation/intelligence role. Personally, I think 7 mags is minimum for the AR (210 rounds) and when I was a ninja warrior, I carried 13 mags. Part of the amount is based on your method of carrying. Using the old 3 mag ammo pouches, there is no reason to have a 3 mag pouch with less than three mags, and if you have three mags on one side and none on the other its unbalanced. so either 2x 3 mag pouches, or 4x 3 mag pouches, with one in the gun. If you are using a chest pouch, adjust accordingly. I have mixed feelings with a chest pouch. Its convenient, and easier in some positions but the straps chaffe more.

As to the fal, I carry 4 x 2 mag pouches and one in the gun for a total of 9.

But pack with one ration, poncho. duct tape, para cord, roll of wire, and all the other little odds and ends you can't be without. knife. compass, battle dressing, miniflashlight. 2 x canteens with one canteen cup.

Some people want a sidearm. Ok. in 14 years in the military, I never carried both an individual weapon and a sidearm and never felt undergunned. The only time I carried a .45 was when assigned a crew-served weapon like the M60, even when it was treated as an individual weapon.

With mags cheap and relatively light weight, I see no purpose in stripper clips and bandoleers. I have all my magazines loaded at all times. Loaded mags do not wear out quality springs.

10 fal mags fit nice in a .30 cal ammo can. So why have 10 mags and 200 rounds when you can have them loaded and in the can. - stores better than a cardboard box.

My quandry is the alice vest and my inability to choose between my FAL and AR> Makes ammo carriers tough. Right now I am going with the AR as my quick reaction, therefore the mags are ina chest pouch with the rifle. My FAL is the planned operations weapon and therefore my alice gear is set up for fal mags.

FAL with ALICE and M14 mag pouches.


and with chest pouch
 
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Farmer from Hell

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Well since the only reason I can imagine, for me any way, to be trapesing around with an EBR would be to keep an eye on the hood in the absense of LE Im going with a chest rig. Im not going on any long range patrol just around the block so to speak. It would also be easy getting in and out of a 'hicle if you need to. Load up with some mags, small radio, small first aid kit, and a candy bar and your good to go.

I have one of these in OD that I bought a while ago from Major Surplus. I gave a review on the board here with pics in the review section I think.



It aint bad for the money. It certainly isnt uber mil spec tough but Id venture to say it would survive the walk around the block.

FfH

edit:See here links for pics dont work but the rest is there.
 
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doktor_ecchs

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gunplumber said:
10 fal mags fit nice in a .30 cal ammo can. So why have 10 mags and 200 rounds when you can have them loaded and in the can. - stores better than a cardboard box
(Start Guinness Guys voice...) "BRILLIANT!!!" (resume Dr. X voice...) I'd never thought of that. Guess I'll be picking one up this weekend. That'll free up space in my geetchy-bag...BTW: The horse in the 2nd photo is one beautiful animal...(I don't know about the guy standing next to it...animal? Probably. Beautiful? Defintely not...:rofl: ) The chest pouch is rather photogenic though...

as ever,
Dr. X :fal:
 

gunplumber

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My daughter took a long string of pictures a few years ago for my business cards. Does this chest pouch make me look fat? Well, in siluette, yes it does. So I switched from the chestpouch to the alice. Which doesn't wear well on horseback, especially the way I wear it slung low to clear my rucksack. And the horse just didn't fit well with the with the text.

So posing against my garage wall, and a little cut and paste . .. .


and this picture



became this graphic

 
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J. Armstrong

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I most certainly respect and appreciate tis info from those who have "been there, done that " - thanks, guys !
Seems to me if one feels the need to have a bando of ammo on clips, you ought to make a point of having at least one charger as well - the s clips ain't much use without it ?
Aluminum para mags weigh about half what the steel ones go, but I often wonder about the durability. Normally I only use steel ones to avoid wearing the feed lips of my few paras, but there's also the "scratch and dent" factor. Any thoughts ?
 

gunplumber

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J. Armstrong said:
Aluminum para mags weigh about half what the steel ones go, but I often wonder about the durability. Normally I only use steel ones to avoid wearing the feed lips of my few paras, but there's also the "scratch and dent" factor. Any thoughts ?
I've been using exclusively aluminum mags for almost 15 years. I started with 80 - 8 cans of 10. Went through over a 50 thousand rounds and then sold half of them after Y2K. I now use 40 mags for the range, and have gone through another 20-30K rounds if not more.

Damage - 2 mags with the tabs for the bolt hold opens broken off. Possibly due to a defective bolt hold open device.

I have not had a single failure on the magazines.

the aluminum doesn't bend well - it either cracks or it does't. The steel mags seem to me to dent easier and the weight is significant. (2# difference on 10 mags.)

So I will always use aluminum mags.
 

BlackCat

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Take a look at the Russian Gunner's aprons. It holds 8 AK/FAL mags with pockets for sundries and a knife, and is just the ticket for the tinfoiler on the go. It has a plate pocket, too if you're into that sorta thing.
I got mine for $50, and while it's not as nice as pricier ninja-rigs I've bought over the years from Arktis and eagle, it's well worth the money and up to the task. The body is nylon with plasticized interiors with LOUD velcro on the pouches, but it's secure as all hell. The shoulder straps are wide and sturdy with oldschool "slip-in" stype plastic buckles, no fastex here, mister.
Overall, I give it a 6 out of 10, with kudos for its spartan design, light weight, and value.
I think www.redsoldier.com still has them. If not, Tantal (whatever his real name is in Texas) is well known about the community for having all kinds of Russian gear at good prices and his customer service is top notch.
 

Sword of Laban

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mosbysmen I run 3.3 miles or hills most mornings with a full LBV 8 FAL mags, pistol and two spare pistol mags, water etc., and a three day patrol pack with 200 rounds and various sundry items in it total weight around 75 lbs. Its a work out. Funny thing is I live in the suburbs just outside of Portland Oregon and no one seems to take any notice at all other than to ask how much weight I'm packing in my rig.

8 + 1 works for me but I did do it a few times with 18 mags, two SAW pouches with 5 each, 4 30 round mags in my double - double pouch and 4 more 20 rounders in a double and a double single. Made me feel my oats. I would have to have a FA to make it worth doing on a regular basis. But then I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay...

 

TheOtherChris

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mr fixit said:
Not sure what to call it maybe combat load fits, maybe not. The question is this;
in making preps for 'whatever', what would be the "must have minimum" of stuff per weapon.

I guess the senario I'm wondering about would be something where you are carrying what you 'need'. Maybe your scouting around your home/base and can go back for more, but have only what's on your back for immediate use.
IMHO, you really need to know what might happen before you can answer your question.

Example: You live or work in an urban area and want to have what you'd need to get home. In this case I would carry (in the trunk) the type of combat loads described above.

But, you live or work in a very rural area where you're unlikely to encounter the dreaded Spikey Haired, Cannibalistic, Welfare Mutants so you don't need much more than a 22lr pistol and take down rifle with a couple boxes of shells.

Remember, your objective is just to get to your home/hide/bunker/compound and undetected is best. You don't need to secure an objective.

If you encounter an unavoidable conflict in this country that requires the expenditure of more than 100 rounds of ammo, you're probably not going to make it anyway.

Just my opinion and it is worth exactly what I charged for it.:wink:
 

mr fixit

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Great responses!
Let me clarify now that i've had time to think about it too....

Right now, life is good (for the most part). we have jobs, we can go to the store and buy just about anything we want. We have electricity and city water just waiting to be used. We can buy trinkets and faubles. Now is the time to think about when things go bad.

let's speak hypothetically; Say I wanted to buy an FAL, or an Ar or an M1a, or even SKS. Those are all decent weapons, some better than others for some things, but all 'useable'. But buying a weapon alone really has not improved my situation in regard to preparing for "bad times". So, in order to have a useable weapon, I would also need ammo, mags/strippers, and something to carry it all in/on.

So, before I spend money an a second weapon, it would make sense to buy all the accutrements I need for the first. Then if the SHTF, I have a useable weapon system.

Along those lines, not knowing what might happen, what would you have on hand, just in case, to use your self, and to possibly pass out to family/close friends. And realize that 100 mags and 20K of ammo per weapon is out.
What would be the minimum equipment load you must have before spending money on an additional weapon?
 

Ronin556

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Remember, your objective is just to get to your home/hide/bunker/compound and undetected is best. You don't need to secure an objective.
Can you say that with absolute 100% certainty?

How do you know you won't be ambushed for your supplies?
Roadblocked?
Bushwhacked at your home/hide/bunker/compound?

There are FAR to many variables to rely on a breakdown rifle and a .22 caliber pistol. A centerfire rifle of common military caliber (5.56, 5.45, 7.62S, 7.62N, etc) and a pistol of service caliber is the very minimum to show that you actually take your life seriously.

One can move "undetected" and still be attacked - especially depending on the duration of time spent riding "Shank's Mare". It's more a matter of population and desperation than one's skill in getting from A to B without being noticed by Grandma Ethel.
Detected is when a dog barks. Worry about staying alive, because you WILL be detected.
 

FREE RIFLEMAN

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I basically set up senario bags...

All of them include either a chest rig for smaller problems or a full out patrol setup for bigger problems with full combat loads.

It works like this:

Going on a long daytrip.... grab one scenario bag

Friend needs help patroling property along Mexican Border... grab two

A couple of scenarios that are worse... grab three or four

A looming mushroom cloud over Phoenix... grab all the bags, three footlockers, and empty the safe!

Then... there's a trailer... but that's for a different thread... lol!
 

ER

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>>>>Since I've changed to a plate carrier from an LBV, I've been forced to reduce my overall load to:
10+1 for the M4 (330 rounds+20 tracers)
6+1 for the FAL (140 rounds)
6+1 for the AK (210 rounds)<<<<<<

damn dude......you hump all that shit AND 3 long guns?...you da man! I`d need a friggin humvee to carry all that.


I keep an AMT Hardballer w/3 mags full of Golden Sabre, and a CAR-15A1 w/4 30rd mags of USGI 55gr ball in the Jeep along with the GMHB. Spent all my service time with these type weapons and it`s what I feel comfortable with. The FALs are in the vault at home, where I plan to return to. `Bout 15-20mi is all I expect to have to go if SHTF. I live in a relatively rural part of the country, and about all I have to worry about are hordes of 60-90yr old retired yankees trying to steal my stash
:rofl:
 

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mr fixit said:
Great responses!
Let me clarify now that i've had time to think about it too....

(Snip...)

What would be the minimum equipment load you must have before spending money on an additional weapon?

I try to do things in a methodical way, and prioritize in terms of expense and "potential legal complications."

Currently, full-capacity magazines are easy to obtain for the weapons that have been mentioned here, and prices are good for most of them. Never been better, for some.

They're also, after 10 years of lame BS, once again unrestricted at the Federal level. So even if you live in an unfree state, they can be obtained one way or another. But there is a chance---not a great one at this time, but that could change after the next election---that there will be another stupid law passed that will prohibit their purchase.

So buying "enough" magazines now seems a wise idea.

How many is "enough"? I would say at least a "basic load" worth for each rifle, to be placed in storage after function testing, plus a few for range/training use.

For an AR, that means 7 for a "basic load" (1 in the rifle, 6 in two 3-magazine pouches or a chest carrier) plus another 3 or 4 for range use. Say 12, just to be sure. Used magazines can be had cheaply, but there's a good chance they've been beat on by some 19 year old soldier who didn't care too much about what happened to them. OK for range use, but for the "basic load" I would start with new-in-wrapper US GI magazines. They can be found for around $10 these days.

For an FAL or HK91 I would consider 9 to be a "basic load" (1 in rifle, 8 in four 2-magazine pouches) plus the 3 or 4 for range use. Gunplumber's ammo can idea is a good one; I'm partial to the HK91 and 8 of its magazines will fit in the same can. With an FAL this is about ideal: pack a can with 9 magazines and a small cleaning kit. So, again, about a dozen magazines as the minimum. New-in-wrapper magazines can be found for these rifles for between $5-$10; used ones for as little as $2.

Ammunition is the next critical issue. There isn't an organized effort to ban it, at least not to the extent that there is to ban "assault weapons" and magzines, but it faces at least some threat of restriction and bans. Restrictions on imports of surplus or military-style ammunition are only an Executive Order away. Without ammunition your rifle is useless, so you need at least some on hand.

At minimum, you want at least enough for your "basic load." I would recommend at least a case, per rifle, as your "war reserve," and if at all possible more.. Buying in bulk is the only way to go, and it can't be just a coincidence that there's usually a better price when you buy a 1000 round case... Plus many countries' surplus ammunition is packed for long-term storage, in sealed cans, soldered tins or PVC bags. The problem is finding good quality ammunition, that has been properly stored, at a reasonable price.

What's available changes rapidly. A few years ago Portuguese 7.62mm NATO could be found for under $125/1k delivered; then there was Australian at a good price, and it seems to have dried up... And then there's crap like the Indian stuff, to be avoided at any price. Similar issues with 5.56mm. And there's always domestic GI-like ball, usually at a much higher price, but newer and of a known quality.

Ammunition deals come and go quickly, so the best plan is to be an educated consumer and have enough funds on hand to jump if something good comes along. Watch the sales flyers and websites for the big dealers to see what's available, keep an eye on the ammunition board here and on other sites to see how good the stuff actually is, and when good ammunition at a good price appears, don't want too long before buying as much as you can. There's always a way to get rid of it, after all.

Then there's all the little bits and pieces... Mostly cheap enough that there's no real need to put off purchase, but well enough off the radar that you don't need to worry about bans anytime soon. I would suggest, as the minimum for each rifle, a sling, cleaning kit and muzzle cap.

The sling doesn't need to be an uber-tactical one, just a simple strap ($3 US GI black nylon "silent sling" will do) to keep the rifle in place if you need to use both hands for something. You can always upgrade to a 3-point or such if you feel the need.

For the cleaning kit, some folks like the ones made by Otis with a flexible "rod," others prefer to use GI take-down rods. I would recommend, in either case, that you have both an "at-home" and a "field" cleaning kit: the "at-home" kit is the one you use routinely, with a good commercial one-piece rod to prevent bore damage, and the "field" kit with _new_ rod, _new_ bore and chamber brushes, _new_ cleaning toothbrush and so forth, with a _full_ bottle of oil, jar of grease, etc, package of patches, etc, all inspected and then packed away with the "basic load" magazines and ammunition, so you're not tempted to rob it when the "at-home" supplies run low.

A $0.25 plastic muzzle cap (the US GI one will fit most rifles that have the NATO standard 22mm flash suppressor/grenade launcher) is a very good idea. When you're soaking wet, scared and sleep-deprived, stumbling around in the dark, it is very easy to end up with a muzzle packed full of mud. Not good even if you notice it in time. Stow the cap in the can with the "basic load" and cleaning kit.
 

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Basic load for AR15 = three bandoliers x 140 rds. = 420 rds. + six 30 rd. mags or 12 20 rd. mags (in mag pouches) and canteens and three MREs, poncho, hammock, and mosquito netting, and Glock 19 (two 15 rd. mags and two 30 rd. mags).

I have four FALs, M1A, and SR25, and won't consider the .308; it's the CAR15 when it's time to grab 'n go.
 

rcnpthfndr

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the last couple of years in iraq, i wear a MAV1, i have 5 pouches (3 mags ea) and a pistol holster on the MAV1. +1 mag in the M4. you cant always make it back to where you have your stash in a timely manner. i also had a bigger camelback system which held vs-17 panels, strobes, frags, flashbangs, otis cleaning kit, knife/multi-tool, snacks, a tube with, front sight post, firing pin, asst springs and FCG.
 

TheOtherChris

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Ronin556 said:


Can you say that with absolute 100% certainty?

Of course not.
That was just one scenario. Each person has to determine which threats they're likely to encounter and plan accordingly.
Most of us can't always be equipped for all threats; you can't carry that much gear around without getting pulled over.

Now he has clarified (somewhat) his primary need which is very different that the question I thought I was responding to.
 
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