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Cleaning mags

hueyville

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This runs deeper than the issue on magazines back to another several years ago where a concerted effort to shift the culpability for something off the party who failed to folow through on a written and spoken agreement felt a need to shift blame rather than just say changed their mind. I dropped it then but seems it is still drug up on occasion to help keep doubt in question. On topic found more in print which specifically says "do not reprint without permission".

I did find enough that gave permission to quote. The first several are all from USGIs who served during Vietnam. The last was a group effort mostly complied by Troy Tiscareno and James Wesley Rawles. Will discover tidbits like Colt making 30 rounders from 1967-1969 through subcontractor who supplied their 20's. Quotes like
The US Military switched to 30-round magazines in the early 1970s
and
Army and late Air Force contract mags made by Adventure Line Mfg. Co. Adventure Line was eventually aquired by Center Industries. Dull alloy followers and gold/bronze colored anodizing. Made from 1966-1971.
tend to lend credit to Vietnam era 30 rounders (a claim I didn't make in my O.P. just about steel prebans.

I can probably put about as much effort to quote reliable sources on manufacturers of steel 30 round prebans. Any of you who choose to argue with Jim Rawles just prove an inability for rational thought and like a liberal have to stomp around "liar, liar" and "Walter Mitty" mantras till I find a spoon big enough to feed you the information without you swallowing it with your big flap holes. I do have it in copywritten print and most of what have found thus far on the internet is improperly reprinted from said books but given time I can switch from a spoon to bottle feeding. I am a research machine and own a print library that has written books on the AR 15 development copywriten early as 1970's.

No more than about a thousand 30-round AR magazines were issued to American troops before the war ended in Vietnam. While these extended magazines offered firepower parity with the heavy steel, 30-round versions on the AK-47, they were still stamped from lightweight aluminum and included the same marginal followers. When I wore the uniform, we used a mixture of 20- and 30-round box AR magazines. I always kept my weapons meticulously maintained and can trace the vast majority of the failures I experienced back to the weapon’s magazines.

There has always been a niche market for black rifle magazines made out of steel. The Sterling Company in England pressed 40-round boxes as early as the 1980s. When properly finished, they could pass for the aluminum sort in dim light, but they remained incrementally heavier and were more susceptible to rust and corrosion in the field.
The M16 was first issued during the Vietnam war. As issued, it had the 20 round magazine. After initial contact with the enemy, using AK-47s, which had 30 round magazines, men started wanting 30 round magazines. This did create a demand and, since they weren’t readily available, a shortage. Now, the 30 round, while standard today, is longer and has a curve. Not as much as the AK magazine, but it still sticks out. So, while I did have the 30 rounds, I liked to keep the 20 round in the rifle. I don’t recall when the 30s started to arrive. When they did, like most things, they went to special units first, then filtered down. Amazing how things ‘fell off the truck.’ There was also another problem. Issue equipment only held the 20 rounders. So, you had to improvise for the 30s. Canteen pouches worked. Things weren’t as uniform as they are today.

Today, you see all sizes of magazines. The 30 is standard, few use the 20, and you can get 50 or 100 round magazines. Reliability is key. In Vietnam, the magazines were said to be prone to fatigue. So, you shorted them. Instead of 20 rounds for the 20, you loaded 18 or so. For the 30, 28. Some still do this today. I really don’t know much about the higher magazines. I know most of the ones I’ve used, not OEM, have been crap. And, they’re always improving the OEM versions. The higher capacity ones have always jammed. A lot of guys like the fancy gear and they always complain about them. I’ve never used a mag with more than 30 rounds and don’t see a point in it. Besides, I don’t see a point in paying hundreds of dollars for a magazine that should be disposable.
I served in the army '67–'73 in the infantry, and '69–'70 in Vietnam. I was qualified with both the M-14, and M-16 rifles. We carried the M-16A1 in 'nam, the one with closed flash suppressor, forward assist, chromed bolt and chamber. The 20 round magazine was standard issue with the M-16. In 1970 in 'nam a few 30 round banana magazines began to appear. I think they were special issue to a few units, but a few filtered down to our company. The few men that had them usually had only 1 or 2 and kept one in their rifle, and used 20 round magazines for reload. Some men taped magazines together back to back, so they could flip them when one was empty. They only did this with the magazine that was loaded into the weapon, and not with the rest of their magazines (we each carried quite a few). I loaded my magazines with 19 rounds. The inside of the magazines, and rounds that had been in them for long periods would corrode over there, so when and if I had time about every couple of months, I removed the bottom of the magazines, emptied the magazines, wiped off the rounds, brushed the inside of the magazine with a tooth brush, stretched the spring gently and oiled it. We did things like that because we all wanted to come home alive.
I’m not sure when 30 round magazines became available as general issue, but it was well after the M16 was initially introduced in Vietnam. The first time I saw a 30 round magazine was on an XM-177 (better known as a CAR-15) belonging to one of the MACV-SOG guys, in spring 1969. The standard issue magazine for regular forces in Vietnam was the 20 round magazine, at least through July 1969.

Everything about the M16 was configured around the standard 20 round magazines. Ammunition came in cardboard boxes of 20 rounds in two 10-round stripper clips. Those cardboard boxes came in a cloth bandolier that came with 7 boxes of 20 rounds each but would hold seven 20-round magazines.

As others have mentioned, it was normal practice at the time to load only 18 rounds in a 20-round magazine (often with the bottom two rounds being tracers). The reason soldiers loaded the magazines with only 18 rounds instead of 20 was due to the myth that the springs would become worn out if the magazine was left fully loaded for too long. That was (and still is) a myth, but it was something that “everybody knows” at the time.
The 30 round magazine wasn’t in production until 1967, and even then only in civilian circles. SOG and SEAL units noticed them and resorted to ordering them through sporting goods catalogs to get them in country because the US military still issued the 20 rounders due to having a giant supply of them and at the time they were still more reliable. To the best of my knowledge the 30 round magazines didn’t become a major item in the Army at large until we had completely pulled out of Vietnam.
The 30 round magazine wasn’t in production until 1967, and even then only in civilian circles. SOG and SEAL units noticed them and resorted to ordering them through sporting goods catalogs to get them in country because the US military still issued the 20 rounders due to having a giant supply of them and at the time they were still more reliable. To the best of my knowledge the 30 round magazines didn’t become a major item in the Army at large until we had completely pulled out of Vietnam.
The 30 rounder was adopted in 1967. And may have gone to Europe first as that was the primary focus of the military
The first iteration of the M-16 came standard with 20 round magazines, in ’69 the A1 version was adopted some of it’s upgrades was the 30rnd magazine and chrome lined barrel
What causes 30 round magazines of the M16 to not work properly when it was first developed in 1967 during the Vietnam war?

A combination of a couple of factors:
  1. Poorly designed followers. The Magazine follower is the actual piece of material that directly pushes on the ammo, and is in turn pushed by the spring. The original followers were pretty notorious for tilting in the magazine.
  2. The magazine wasn’t quite long enough, which made it very hard to seat a full mag on a closed bolt. When an AR magazine is inserted, the bolt pushes down slightly on the ammo… And if the mag was full there simply wasn’t room for this, leading to magazines that would simply fall out, sometimes unnoticed.
  3. The general issue with Aluminum mags, which is that damage to them, especially to the feed lips, can cause occasional malfunctions and it’s difficult to detect such damage by a casual examination. Such “slightly damaged” mags could be issued again and again and cause numerous problems before they were removed from service.
  4. Many of them were built very poorly by a series of subcontractors who never got the experience to really dial in the manufacturing process.
  5. Material quality and consistency of the magazine spring was dubious.
  6. The Aluminium mag itself doesn’t have ideal geometry in it’s 30 round form for the ammo it was feeding.
None of these issues were huge, but the could and did combine to make the experience with 30 rounds magazines far from ideal. These issues were all eventually solved (some taking more time than others), but enough of it is still remains that I’ve experienced these issues myself, all these years later.
[1] Introduction
===
[1-1] Purpose:
=====
The purpose for this FAQ is to gather as much reliable information about all magazines for the AR-15/M16 weapons system in one place. This will allow for AR enthusiasts, new and experienced, to have a reference with regards to magazine facts and issues. This FAQ will cover both USGI and aftermarket AR magazines in detail, as well as maintenance and upgrades of both. Please present any suggestions for additional content to: mraudio@ecis.com. This FAQ is a work in progress, intended to benefit everyone, so feel free to contribute.


[1-2] Disclaimer:
=====
This FAQ is for informational purposes *only*. While many issues covered in this FAQ deal with legal issues, this FAQ should not be taken as legal advice. Consult a lawyer in your area if you have legal questions. The author of this FAQ (and all contributors) can in no way be responsible for anything you do after reading this FAQ. This FAQ guarantees *nothing* at all. For all you know, its complete BS...

This FAQ is designed to help organize the collective knowledge and experience of the members of AR15-L and www.AR15.com. As such, there will inevitably be differences of opinion with regards to the content of this FAQ. Submissions or corrections should be made to mraudio@ecis.com.


[1-3] Copyright:
=====
The AR-15 Magazine FAQ is Copyright 1999 by Troy Tiscareno. All rights not specifically granted below are reserved by the author. You are granted the following rights:

I. To make copies of this FAQ in original form, as long as
(a) the copies are complete and are unaltered by anyone other than Troy Tiscareno;
(b) the copies are in electronic form;
(c) they give credit to the author, Troy Tiscareno.
II. To distribute this work, under the provisions above, as long as
(a) the copies are complete and are unaltered by anyone other than Troy Tiscareno;
(b) no fee is charged;
(c) they give credit to the author, Troy Tiscareno, in any
description;
(d) the distributed form is not in an electronic magazine or
within computer software;
(e) the distributed form is the newest version of the FAQ (email
the author to find the latest version number);
(f) the distributed form is electronic.

You may NOT distribute this FAQ in *any* non-electronic media.
You may NOT distribute this FAQ in any electronic magazine.
You may NOT distribute this FAQ within computer software.

NOTE: These rights are temporary, and may be revoked upon written, oral, or other notice by Troy Tiscareno. If you wish to distribute this FAQ within a magazine or electronic magazine, get in touch with the author.

[1-4] Credits:
=====
The bulk of the information in this FAQ has come from the AR15-L mail list and from the Discussion Forums on www.ar15.com. However, the author owes specific debt to several folks for sharing their knowledge:

James Wesley, Rawles rawles@usa.net
Paul "Paul308" Podhorn allsteel@piasanet.com
LtC. Chuck Santose santose@compuserve.com

A good deal of the information herein came directly from Jim Rawles' great USGI mag FAQ, though I've omitted pricing details due to the constant fluctuations in market value of these items. Find that FAQ here:
http://www.ar15.com/products/magazines/information.asp
Thanks Jim!

[1-5] Additions/Updates in this version of the FAQ
=====
- Alpha edition

=====

=====
[2] United States Government Issue (USGI) Spec Magazines
=====

[2-1] USGI 20 Round Magazines
-------
USGI 20-round mags are aluminum, straight-bodied, and are angled at the bottom. Like all USGI mags, they are hard-coat anodized, then coated with a gray moly dry-film. Floorplates are generally black aluminum, marked with the manufacturer's name and city/state.

[2-1-1] Early Designs
-------
The original AR-15 magazines were made by ArmaLite, the company responsible for the design of the AR-10 and AR-15 rifles, among others.
They were aluminum, 20-round magazines and had waffle-pattern ridges, though later examples had only the vertical ridges. These mags are very
rare, and are generally collectors' items. Floorplates were stamped:

ArmaLite(r) AR-15
Patents Pending
CAL. 223
COLT'S PT.F.A.MFG.CO.INC.
HARTFORD, CONN.U.S.A.

[2-1-2] Colt
-------
All Colt-marked magazines were actually made by a sub contracter, Universal Industries, a division of Okay Industries. GI-Contract Colt 20s had alloy followers and are marked with a "UI" stamp (for Universal Industries) on the front narrow wall of the magazine. Tilted on it's side, the "UI" becomes a "CH" (Colt, Hartford). The US Military switched to 30-round magazines in the early 1970s, and Colt-marked 20s made after the switch had black plastic followers. Anodizing is generally gray or silver in color.

[2-1-2-1] Colt .223
---------
Early US Air Force contract magazines. Early runs had shiny alloy followers; later runs were dull alloy. Made from 1965-1967. Floorplates stamped:

(Pony) COLT AR-15
CAL. .223
COLT'S PT.F.A.MFG. CO.INC.
HARTFORD, CONN. U.S.A.

[2-1-2-2] Colt 5.56mm
---------
Army and late Air Force contract Colt mags with 5.56 stamping. These have dull alloy followers. Note that there are no dimensional differences between mags marked .223 vs. 5.56. Made from 1969-1971. Floorplates stamped:

(Pony) COLT AR-15
CAL. 5.56 MM
COLT'S PT.F.A. MFG. CO. INC.
HARTFORD, CONN. U.S.A.

[2-1-2-3] Colt Commercial 5.56mm
--------- Colt sold mags made for the commercial market with standard USGI mag bodies and black plastic followers. Generally, the black plastic followers are considered less reliable than the Mil-Spec alloy followers. Made from 1980-1989. Floorplates stamped:

(Pony) CAL. 5.56 MM
COLT'S FIREARMS DIVISION
COLT INDUSTRIES
HARTFORD, CONN. U.S.A.

[2-1-2-3-1] Colt Nickel-Plated 20s
-----------
Colt had a small number of 20-round mags finished with in nickel, for sale with a limited run of nickel-plated SP-1s in the late 70's. These mags are rare, and are among the few mags desirable by collectors regardless of condition. Note: some people have confused silver or gray anodized mags with no finish remaining for nickel-plated mags. Nickel-plated mags are noticeably brighter and smoother.

[2-1-2-3-2] Colt .222
-----------
Colt had a run of mags made with floorplates marked CAL .222 designed to be shipped with rifles chambered in .222 Remington. These rifles were for export to countries where civilians are barred from owning guns in military calibers. They are dimensionally the same as standard .223 mags.

[2-1-2-3-3] Colt 7.62X39mm
-----------
Several lots of mags have been made for Colt's 7.62mmx39mm AR-15 rifles. These are standard 20-round .223 bodies with a floorplate marked 7.62x39mm. They will hold 7-8 rounds of 7.62x39mm ammunition. Made from 1980s-1994. Floorplates stamped:

(Pony) CAL. 7.62 X 39
COLT'S MFG. CO. INC.
HARTFORD, CONN.
U.S.A.

[2-1-2-3-4] Colt 5-Round Mags
-----------
Colt had a small number of 5-round magazines made for hunting in states where magazine capacities are limited to 5 rounds. This was done by taking a standard 20-Round magazine and adding an upside-down U-shaped insert to prevent the follower from traveling far enough into the magazine to allow more than 5 rounds to be inserted. As these magazines are legal pre-ban mags, many people remove the insert. These mags, in 5-round format, are favored among hunters as the spring pressure is the same as a standard 20-round mag. Made from 1974-1994. Floorplates stamped:

(Pony) CAL. 5.56 MM
COLT'S FIREARMS DIVISION
COLT INDUSTRIES
HARTFORD, CONN. U.S.A.

[2-1-2-4] Colt LEO 5.56MM
-----------
These mags were made after the 1994 Crime Bill banned the manufacture of over-10-round-capacity magazines for civilian sales. These mags are marked Law Enforcement/Military Use Only. USGI-type mag bodies with black plastic followers. Made from 1994-present. Floorplates stamped:

(Pony) CAL. 5.56 MM
COLT'S MFG. CO. INC.
HARTFORD, CONN.
U.S.A.

[2-1-3] Adventure Line Manufacturing Company
-----------
Army and late Air Force contract mags made by Adventure Line Mfg. Co. Adventure Line was eventually aquired by Center Industries. Dull alloy followers and gold/bronze colored anodizing. Made from 1966-1971. Floorplates stamped:

ADVENTURE LINE MFG. CO.
PARSONS. KS. U.S.A.

[2-1-4] Simmonds Precision Products Incorporated
-------
Army and late Air Force contract mags made by Simmonds. Dull alloy followers and gold/bronze colored anodizing. (Simmonds was a division of Okay/Universal Industries). Made from 1966-1971. Floorplates stamped:

(S Logo) M16/M16A1 CAL 5.56 mm
UNIVERSAL INDS. DIV
SIMMONDS PREC. PROD. INC.
WEST HAVEN, CONN. U.S.A.

[2-2] 30 Round Magazines
=====
USGI 30 round magazines are aluminum-bodied and have black or green plastic followers. The body of the magazine is straight on the top 2/5, then curved forward for the next 2/5, and straight again on the last 1/5. Like the 20s, 30-round mags are hard anodized and moly dry-film coated.

[2-2-1] Colt 30-Round Mags
-------

[2-2-1-1] Early Colt 30-round Mags
---------
Army and late Air Force contract mags. The first Colt 30-round mags had dark green, hard-plastic followers with Colt part number 62665A stamped in white on the follower and part number 62667 stamped on the side of the body. These followers did *not* have the lengthened front "anti-tilt" leg that later green followers have. These mags are rare and collectable, though considered unreliable by some. Made from 1967-1969. Floorplates stamped:

(Pony) COLT AR-15
CAL. 5.56 MM
COLT'S PT. F.A. MFG. CO. INC.
HARTFORD, CONN. U.S.A

[2-2-1-2] Colt 30-Round USGI Contract & Commercial Mags
---------
Made by Okay Industries, these mags had black plastic followers up until the early 1990's when the "anti-tilt" green follower was made Mil-Spec, though commercial mags continued to use up the supply of black followers for some time. Made from 1972-1994. Floorplates stamped:

[1970's Production]

(Pony) CAL. 5.56 MM
COLT'S FIREARMS DIVISION
COLT INDUSTRIES
HARTFORD, CONN. U.S.A.


[Recent Production]

(Pony) CAL. 5.56 MM
COLT'S MFG. CO. INC.
HARTFORD, CONN.
U.S.A.

[2-2-1-3] Colt LEO/Military 30-Round Mags
---------
After the passing of the 1994 Crime Bill, all high-capacity magazines were marked "For LEO/Military/Gov't/Export Use Only" and are illegal to possess for most. Standard USGI-type mag body and green followers. Made from 1994-present. Floorplates stamped:

(Pony) CAL. 5.56 MM
COLT'S MFG. CO. INC.
HARTFORD, CONN.
U.S.A.

[2-2-2] Okay Industries 30-Round Mags
-------
Okay Industries is a current US Military contractor, and is the subcontractor that manufactures all Colt-marked AR-15 magazines. They also sell magazines under their own name, identical except for the floorplate stamping. Early mags had black plastic followers; mags made since 1992 had green "anti-tilt" followers. Made from late 1970s-present. Floorplates stamped:

(Okay Logo) INDUSTRIES,
INC.
NEW HAVEN, CONN. U.S.A.

[2-2-3] Center Industries
-------
Center Industries is a current US Military contractor. Parsons and Adventure Line were aquired by Center. Center is one of the largest manufacturers of M16/AR15 magazines, and recently (1999) received a new GI contract for 10 million mags over several years. Early mags had black followers; mags made since 1992-3 have green "anti-tilt" followers. Made from 1980s-present.

*WARNING* Center Industries is not marking its post-ban magazines with the required "FOR LEO/MILITARY/ GOV'T/EXPORT USE ONLY" verbiage. All Center mags since the late 1980s have the date (in 12/99 format) and Center's CAGE code (6P199) stamped on the side of the mag body. It seems that some individuals have ground the date stamp off of some post-ban magazines and refinished the area. These magazines are being sold at gun shows to unsuspecting folks as pre-ban mags. Possession of these post-ban magazines by non-approved folks can result in a felony charge.

Floorplates stamped:

CENTER INDUSTRIES CORP.
WICHITA, KS. U.S.A.

[2-2-4] Adventure Line Manufacturing Company
-------
Adventure Line was one of the early magazine contractors, making both 20 and 30-round magazines. Adventure Line was aquired by Parsons, and eventually by Center. Adventure Line mags had gold-colored anodizing, black followers, and have especially long-lasting moly finish. Made from late 1960s-early 1970s. Floorplates stamped:
ADVENTURE LINE MFG. CO.
PARSONS, KS. U.S.A.

[2-2-5] Parsons Precision Products
-------
Parsons bought out Adventure Line, and was eventually aquired by Center Industries. Parsons mags all had black followers. Made from early 1970s-early 1980s. Floorplates stamped:

PARSONS PRECISION PRODUCTS
PARSONS, KS. U.S.A.

[2-2-6] Cooper Industries
-------
Cooper Industries is well-known as the only M16 mag contractor to lose its contract. There had been reports of problems with Cooper mags in the field, and an investigation uncovered that Cooper had mixed "reject" mags in with those that passed inspection. Some Cooper mags were found to have only 3 spot-welds per seam, instead of the usual 6-7. Others were oversize and wouldn't fit into mag wells, or had the mag halves welded together unevenly, causing feed problems. Although the majority of Cooper mags were fully in spec, the US Army recalled all Cooper mags. Always examine any Cooper mag for fit and welds before buying, preferably in your own lower. Because of the stigma surrounding Cooper mags, you can often find them at bargain prices. As long as you know what to look for, they can actually be a bargin. Made from mid 1970s-mid 1980s. Floorplates stamped:

COOPER INDUSTRIES
UPLAND, CA (r) 786
MFG. CODE 030389

[2-2-7] Sanchez Enterprises
-------
Sanchez magazines have aquired a wholy undeserved reputation as being bad mags. It began when it was discovered that Sanchez magazines exhibited a higher-than-normal rate of failure when feeding the last few rounds in a magazine, particularly during full-auto fire. An investigation found that Sanchez magazines were in-spec, and no explanation was ever given for the increase in the failure rate. Instead, the problem was corrected with the new green "anti-tilt" followers. The Green Followers (GFs) were first seen in Sanchez magazines in 1988, and became standard issue for all M16 magazines in 1992. Sanchez mags should be considered on par with any USGI-spec mag. Made from early 1980s-early 1990s. Floorplates stamped:

(DSI) SANCHEZ ENT.
MANSFIELD, OH USA

[2-2-8] Labelle Industries
---------
La Belle is best known as the only manufacturer to have offered magazines finished in teflon (in place of the moly dry-film) from the factory. However, the majority of La Belle mags were for USGI contracts, and had the standard moly finish. In early 1994, just before the Crime Bill was passed, La Belle made several lots of mags finished in black or gray teflon for sale to civilians and LEOs. AR15 manufacturers Bushmaster and DPMS were the largest distributors of these mags, though several other companies also offered these teflon mags with their own floorplate stampings. Teflon La Belle mags are widely considered the best of the USGI 30-rounders. La Belle was bought by General Stamping in 1995. Made from late 1980s-mid 1990s. Floorplates stamped:

LA BELLE IND.
OCONOMOWOC, WI. U.S.A.
MFG 90435

[2-2-8-1] Bushmaster Firearms Incorporated
---------
Bushmaster sold gray teflon Labelle mags with black Bushmaster floorplates until their supply of these pre-ban mags ran out in late 1998. The last of the mags had unmarked black floorplates. It appears that Bushmaster is making their 2nd Generation 10-round magazines from cut-down, post-ban teflon Labelle mags. Made in 1994. Floorplates stamped:

B.F.I.
WINDHAM, ME (Snake)
U.S.A.

[2-2-8-2] Defense Procurement Manufacturing Services (DPMS)
---------
DPMS sold black teflon Labelle mags with DPMS floorplates until they ran out in late 1998. Made in 1994. Floorplates stamped:

DEFENSE PROCUREMENT
MANUFACTURING SERVICES, INC
OSSEO, MN 55369

[2-2-8-3] Armalite Incorporated
---------
Not the original Costa Mesa, CA ArmaLite; this is the company formerly known as AR15 manufacturer Eagle Arms and currently located in Genesco, Il. Armalite supplied teflon La Belle pre-ban 30-round mags with Armalite rifles. Made in 1994. Floorplates stamped:

(Lyon)
ArmaLite

[2-2-8-4] Eagle Arms Incorporated
----------
Eagle Arms is now Armalite, but still makes a bargin line of AR15 rifles under the Eagle Arms name. La Belle-made Eagle Arms magazines were supplied with pre-ban Eagle Arms rifles. Made in 1994. Floorplates stamped:

EAGLE
ARMS
INCORPORATED

[2-2-9] General Stamping
----------
General Stamping bought out La Belle, and made USGI contract 30-round mags for the military. All General Stamping mags are post-ban, and restricted to military, LEO, and export use only. Made from 1996-present. Floorplates stamped:

GENERAL STAMPING
OCONOMOWOC, WI. USA
RESTRICTED LAW ENFORCEMENT
GOVERNMENT USE ONLY

[2-2-10] Fabrique Nationale (FN)
--------
FN is the current contractor of the M16A2, A3, and A4, as well as the M249 SAW, all of which use M16 magazines. FN also makes steel M16-type magazines for their competing rifle called the FNC. Made from late 1980s-present. Floorplates stamped:

FN MFG. INC.
COLUMBIA, SC
MFG. CODE
3S679

[2-2-11] Diemaco
--------
Diemaco is a Canadian company that makes AR magazines for the Canadian military's M16's, called C7s and C7As. As these magazines are not made in the US, they are not required to have date stamps on them, but nearly all of these magazines are post-ban. The Canadian military was still using locally-produced Thermold magazines around the time of the 1994 Crime Bill. Floorplates stamped:

DIEMACO
MAGAZINE, 5.56MM
30 ROUNDS
P/N:07465C NBOM: 20085
 

hueyville

Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
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I have tried to not engage people with "agendas" (say monetize their presence here), people with poor reading comprehension, inability to track a post with more than three sentences and two ideas, or just plain contrary in order upset the peace. I come here because I like most of the people, its interesting, I learn a lot about one of the weapons I know the least. I am tired of people saying "it didn't happen if there are no pics" as on the old site before the hack and loss of Tinypic I posted their precious picture every time and have done it recently only because the person it came from I respect.

I am tired of people with what appears to be the education level of a middle school child at best trying to engage subjects they don't comprehend, the people who flip out when you make an educated statement on the provability of the Bible and divine creation. Attack others whom they disagree with instead of responding with polite debate, etc. Grown men should be able to disagree with some honor and discuss different points of view with some decorum of politeness. For years I have let it roll off and just laugh it off and seldom engage it.

I do know this is the internet and we have a wide cross section of society, social/economic standing, military and non military, high school drop outs and PhDs, experts in their field (I like experts even if on a personal level we have different personalities) and so on. I have said since the first to accuse me of tall tales my business and life is open to any Files member anytime, none that have visited have disputed one claim made. I am a honest, God fearing Christian and first to ask questions. Its impossible to learn new ideas from people who agree with you on every idea but if your going to disagree check your facts and post reputable sources not what you "believe".

If I say found a bucket of steel pre-ban 30 round AR 15 mags before calling me a liar, prove it. The "liar, liar Walter Mitty" mantra no longer flies. Checked my machine and past seven days slept an average of 2.9 hours per week opposed to my 3.2 hour average. That's another 3.5 hours to research but motivated me to pull from my print library instead of Google. Older I get the more i realize I don't know and able to admit to myself am an ignorant human without loss of self esteem but what I do know its pretty well stuck in my head.

What I don't know can research and learn given the need, often I am just trying to help people understand concepts I think they may be misguided with a wall of text as in prep school and college my professors didn't settle for "I am right, they are wrong" but asked for why with resources to prove a concept. Prove me wrong and I appreciate it as its one more subject I have honed my knowledge. Teach me something new and I am gratified.

I need to finish my morning Bible study so signing off for a bit but from here on out those who want to engage better plan on some sleepless nights if they want keep up or I may just put those hours they are drunk, sleeping or eating like a hog into gathering the facts to prove their ignorance. I much prefer we act like grown men and help each other out, I can't even sell things in marketplace lately as someone is trolling my ads using PMs and emails to run off buyers and know from where its coming. I could pay tit for tat but its not what the book I am about to pick up teaches.
 

Eeben

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I have a few HK steel mags I got in a swap and man they are really really nice. The extra weight is noticeable so I never carry them but fit in function is perfect.
 

hueyville

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My previous rant is way off from my normal attempts to keep as much peace as possible. I had done my morning structured Bible reading and prayer way earlier but try to pick a translation at random, open so falls on a random page and read before I leave the house. This morning after I posted picked a Holeman translation and it fell open to the minor profits section of the O.T. specifically on the book of Nahum. Found this odd to read after I unleashed in a manner out of character for me. Really expected it would fall open to a passage that gave me a strong spanking and to be all peaceful and non-confrontational.

Nahum
1 The oracle concerning Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
God’s Vengeance
2 The Lord is a jealous and avenging God; the Lord takes vengeance and is fierce in[a] wrath. The Lord takes vengeance against His foes; He is furious with His enemies. 3 The Lord is slow to anger but great in power; the Lord will never leave the guilty unpunished. His path is in the whirlwind and storm, and clouds are the dust beneath His feet. 4 He rebukes the sea so that it dries up, and He makes all the rivers run dry. Bashan and Carmel wither; even the flower of Lebanon withers. 5 The mountains quake before Him, and the hills melt; the earth trembles[b][c] at His presence— the world and all who live in it. 6 Who can withstand His indignation? Who can endure His burning anger? His wrath is poured out like fire, even rocks are shattered before Him.
Destruction of Nineveh
7 The Lord is good, a stronghold in a day of distress; He cares for those who take refuge in Him. 8 But He will completely destroy Nineveh[d]
with an overwhelming flood, and He will chase His enemies into darkness. 9 Whatever you[e] plot against the Lord, He will bring it to complete destruction; oppression will not rise up a second time. 10 For they will be consumed like entangled thorns, like the drink of a drunkard and like straw that is fully dry.[f] 11 One has gone out from you,[g] who plots evil against Yahweh, and is a wicked counselor.
Promise of Judah’s Deliverance
12 This is what the Lord says: Though they are strong[h] and numerous, they will still be mowed down, and he[i] will pass away. Though I have afflicted you,[j]I will afflict you no longer. 13 For I will now break off his yoke from you and tear off your shackles.
The Assyrian King’s Demise
14 The Lord has issued an order concerning you: There will be no offspring to carry on your name.[k] I will eliminate the carved idol and cast image from the house of your gods; I will prepare your grave, for you are contemptible. 15 [l]Look to the mountains— the feet of one bringing good news and proclaiming peace! Celebrate your festivals, Judah; fulfill your vows. For the wicked one will never again march through you; he will be entirely wiped out.
Attack against Nineveh
2 One who scatters is coming up against you. Man the fortifications! Watch the road! Brace[a] yourself! Summon all your strength! 2 For the Lord will restore the majesty of Jacob, yes,[b] the majesty of Israel, though ravagers have ravaged them and ruined their vine branches. 3 The shields of his[c] warriors are dyed red; the valiant men are dressed in scarlet. The fittings of the chariot flash like fire on the day of its battle preparations, and the spears are brandished. 4 The chariots dash madly through the streets; they rush around in the plazas. They look like torches; they dart back and forth like lightning. 5 He gives orders to his officers; they stumble as they advance. They race to its wall; the protective shield is set in place. 6 The river gates are opened, and the palace erodes away. 7 Beauty[d] is stripped,[e] she is carried away; her ladies-in-waiting moan like the sound of doves, and beat their breasts. 8 Nineveh has been like a pool of water from her first days,[f] but they are fleeing. “Stop! Stop!” they cry, but no one turns back. 9 “Plunder the silver! Plunder the gold!”There is no end to the treasure, an abundance of every precious thing. 10 Desolation, decimation, devastation! Hearts melt, knees tremble, loins shake, every face grows pale!

11 Where is the lions’ lair, or the feeding ground of the young lions, where the lion and lioness prowled, and the lion’s cub, with nothing to frighten them away? 12 The lion mauled whatever its cubs needed and strangled prey for its lionesses. It filled up its dens with the kill, and its lairs with mauled prey. 13 Beware, I am against you. This is the declaration of the Lord of Hosts. I will make your chariots go up in smoke[g] and the sword will devour your young lions. I will cut off your prey from the earth, and the sound of your messengers will never be heard again.
 

yovinny

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I continue to be interested in the question:

"Why do people have to pick at other people who aren't "their style"? No one is asking everyone here to be friends - just to be friends with the people that are 'your people', and to be polite to the rest.

Did we all forget what Thumper's mother used to say?
I try and bite my tongue most times,,,I really do..
I just have this tendency of having little patience and zero use for liars,, and am quick to calling out bull shit..
I'll try and play nice... :)
 

lew

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Five gallon bucket of really hot water, dawn dishing washing stuff, stiff brush, blow dry with compressed air.

Its AZ, nothing rust in AZ.;)
Not until it's monsoon season.

G96 is my preference, but PB Blaster works alright. G96 smells and works way better, though.
 

hueyville

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Not until it's monsoon season. G96 is my preference, but PB Blaster works alright. G96 smells and works way better, though.
PB Blaster "As Seen on TV" is the juice that makes my world keep working. Doesn't matter what it is if its giving trouble with squeaks, binding, full of gunk or ten thousand and one other uses something just needs to work or work better right now it gets a blast of PB Blaster. Have a "discount warehouse" run by two men in their late 70's/early 80's and they have the most eclectic inventory of stuff anyone has ever seen in an old warehouse that's looked about collapse past thirty years and they usually have cases of PB Blaster at half price of anywhere else you can find it. Boxes are alway6s damaged and on occasion one of the cans has a dent but its cheap.

Occasionally have the one gallon cans with the refillable sprayer which pick up when they do. Last case of twelve spray cans was $40 and gallons were $20. Reminds me need to swing by there before end of the week and stock up if they have it. Been times they were out for weeks, received a truckload and it looks like the Drivers License Office, DFACS office or Welfare Department except its a bunch of men in Carhart, overalls and greasy shop pants lined up. Have it stacked on the dock so don't have to go inside and will sell it all day with the line never ceasing till about 4:00 pm or they run out again. If one can has lost pressure punch hole in side and drain into the refill can.

Every truck own has at least one can, sometimes if pilfering for a tool sometimes find two or three cans in one truck. Its scattered around the shop, keep it at home, everyplace I shoot and in range bag. Run a gun till it starts to get really fouled, want to just keep going without cleaning blast with some PB, wipe with rag and keep going. If run out of 'machinists milk" aka liquid coolant for a piece of machine equipment mid job have been known to stand and blast the end mill every time it begins to load up with the PB Blaster. Wife gets in truck just hosed door hinges and lock mechanism (licensed locksmith and know better) she will complain about smell. Don't always have locksmith kit with powdered graphite for lock or white silicone spray for the hinges.

Like the EcoTech in above post where I was servicing magazines there have been many times have done same thing using PB Blaster as cleaner then wipe down excess with shop rag. Reassemble to have cleaned and lubricated in a single step. May be better choices but sometimes just "run what your brung and let it eat".
 

hueyville

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While most of my magazine storage boxes packed like below reside in panic room. Discovered many still scattered in cardboard boxes and found a stack of security boxes in storage area instead of "fireproofed" panic room. Early in this thread said will be a day if loose your mags to a house fire (even if fire F.D. shows worst damage could be where magazine hoard stored) may not be able to replace.

Yesterday and today decided to do an inventory, order to fill any gaps may have in case new bill passes with 15 round limit ban on future magazine sales to civilians. Some of my mags were $50 before and today discovered based on magazine, vendor, etc prices are up 50% to double with some. Two magazine per flavor limits with others and some mags holding old prices but others out of stock, no backorders. Imagine losing all your nice milsurp FAL mags or 30 round L2a1 mags. Don't think anyone much other than DSA will offer a 15 round mag.

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Found below stack in the part of basement that used for storage that's on immediate list to get cleaned out as it's part of our next remodel project to add another bedroom, 1/2 bath and finished storage area with better fire protection. The stack literally went to ceiling and if magazine prices climb in next few weeks like this week value is going to more than triple. Now stack, along with stuffed cardboard boxes is in panic room behind a NIJ 3+ force rated entry door.

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Found two boxes of these beat up but functional "military/LEO use only" marked mags purchased after ban expired for $1 each graded rough but functional. Intent was to clean, Cerakote, replace springs and followers then have when/if needed. If high cap mag ban goes back in place and they use this way to mark agency mags how will folks prove they are pre "new bans"? Some are dated month/year, others are not.

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Also found a box of below mags designed to be used with 5.56 M855a1 EPR which present tips to feed ramps in manner steel tips don't erode feed ramps as quickly. They found M4s using standard mags were shredding feed ramps quickly and these were the fix.

Since have a fair amount of EPR bought recommended mags to run them. Looks like when foot heals will be going to get more fire rated/waterproof "security" boxes to store the new hoards of mags found in cardboard boxes plus another several dozen assorted mags inbound ordered to fill gaps where felt inventory was potentially low.

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Ordered $750 (was my set limit) and some vendors had to buy two of eight different flavors due to two per customer limits so shipping didn't eat me. Some paid almost 50% premium over just past weekend to get mags felt I was slack, but some had certain mags same price as last year. Picked up a dozen A Grade HK91/G3/CETME mags $5.99 each but their 25 round M1a/M14s we're $50 each and "out of stock".

Did score a pile of 25 round AR 10/SR25 mags and good deal on some Lancer 30 round 5.56 in translucent smoke color. If don't buy 6.8 spc II Mini 14 mags now who will tool up to make 15 round mags for discontinued rifle with small following? Tried to avoid 20 round mags as used to 15s in my 6.8 and 22 Nosler ARs for shorts and 25s for longs. We all need to be calling our Rebublican Senators telling them toughening up on criminals and people who use guns in crimes but take our mags away and voting independent.
 

Fiorina

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Appreciate all the reply’s. I’ve got quite a few mags stripped down and all cleaned/de-rusted. I was thinking about using Alumahyde to repaint the ones I had to strip. The non bake kind. I don’t have an oven I can use at the moment. Wife will kill me if I use the oven in the house again….
 

W.E.G.

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A $30 toaster oven is in your future.

if you need more room for longer pieces like barrels, you can modify/enlarge the doorway for a few dolls with sheet metal, pop-rivets, cabinet hinges, and stove flue pipe. It’s cheaper than a divorce.


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tac-40

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I refinished a bunch of my old USGI aluminum mags a while back. After cleaning them I sprayed them with two coats of Perma Slik G. They still look and feed like brand new. It wasn't cheap but one can did 25 mags with a little left over. It is an epoxy based dry film lubricant.

 

Enquiring Minds

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When I want to spend a lot of $$ on a small quantity of dry-film lube for long-term storage, I go with Tuf-Glide... the high price and super-tiny applicator orifice forces you to spread it very efficiently and thoroughly... using their very special cloth... In my NV and AZ days I never knew if I got enough on there, but after 20 years back in steamy So-Fla, and still no rust, I'd say it's "coated".

Do they still make Tuf-Glide? Is the tiny half-bottle I have still "good" after 2 decades?... these and other questions, As The World Burns...
 
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