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Case trimming dilemna, RKI needed

W.E.G.

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If you play pogo-stick with your handloaded rounds, by all means, do the “crimp” thing. Perhaps consider even GLUING the bullet into the case neck. I hear it’s a thing with “military” ammunition. Why aren’t WE doing this too as a matter of course?

Or at least INSPECT the round when you get done playing with it.

And, that said, I’ve seen MANY a “ker-chunked” round re-slammed and sent anyway. Without any kaboom. Some even landed in the X-ring. Which surprised me. But that’s what happened.

YMMV
 

davedude

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Okie dude you were doing right with the FL resize and the Lee trimmer, gauging along the way. Wearing out the Lee case length gauge should be caught by consistent gauging and it sounds like you did.
Not sure what is going on with your other trimmer, shoulders different? After listening to WEG's chapped anality about his RCBS precision mike I bought one and got a headache right away with all the shoulder variations. The shoulder on fired brass from the same rifle was pretty consistent though. I ended up buying precison mics for every caliber I could-- I guess I like headaches. I bought Redding competition shell holders and the headaches got worse. I can fuck up a case man.
The Sheridan cutaway gauge is the shiz, you can eyeball that shoulder fit. Really helps. Love it. Now I can't find my .223 one. Shit.
I got an old RCBS mini lathe looking trimmer, hate that thing. So slow and such a bitch to use. The Lee trimmers are the way to go IMHO. Cheap too so you wear one out just pop in the spare and good to go.
Been reloading for 40+ years but get taken to school regularly. Recently got into neck tension and custom size expander balls to keep from swaging down cast boolits during seating. Been doing it wrong all these years. Don't have to think about it much with jacketed but you could increase or decrease neck tension if you wanted.
Imagepipe_22.jpg

Imagepipe_21.jpg

Found it!
 
Last edited:

tac-40

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This confuses me. I was taught that FL resizing causes the brass to flow and was the reason we have to trim. Therefore I always trim after I FL resize. Is that wrong?
It is my understanding that the "flow" occurs in the neck area which is corrected by trimming. With his trimmer indexing off the case shoulder, by FL sizing, his shoulders should be a consistent point since the FL does the case and shoulder setback along with the neck as opposed to neck sizing only. To do the neck and shoulder, you would need a bump sizing die.
 

W.E.G.

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I got fussed-at by one of my shooting buddies for just cramming a bullet in the Wolf factory-primed cases.

He said I should be neck-sizing to ensure consistent neck tension.

OK. He IS the guy who wins matches.

I only shoot high-master scores in slow prone.

If I could just stop shooting 7's offhand. Damn that neck-tension!

Pencil-neck that I am.
 

W.E.G.

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One of my benchrest buddies (well, a buddy who shoots benchrest - because I don't shoot benchrest) was at the range when I was there a couple weeks ago.

He's a real good shooter. Wins matches.

He was testing to see if "runout" affected group size.

According to him, runout didn't do shit to group size.

Now, he was shooting the "runout" rounds in a benchrest rifle. So maybe cramming the runout-rounds into the benchrest chamber straightened them out enough to make it not matter.

But I guess if your chamber in your "regular" rifle has a bunch of slop, having the cartridges have zero-runout probably doesn't do much either.

Just try to hold the damn gun still. It's usually JUST YOU.
 

okiefarmer

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It is my understanding that the "flow" occurs in the neck area which is corrected by trimming. With his trimmer indexing off the case shoulder, by FL sizing, his shoulders should be a consistent point since the FL does the case and shoulder setback along with the neck as opposed to neck sizing only. To do the neck and shoulder, you would need a bump sizing die.
I've used a LEE trimmer for years, and never questioned it, until I found out one could wear out a pin, but like Dadvedude said, they are cheap, get another one. It just seemed a little slower than some of the auto units I see on yootoob. Thought I'd try one out. I also use the LEE FCD on the 5.56, I once jut set the final die to touch the casemouth lightly to crimp into the cannelure (whether some say it's needed or not, I've also been loading for over 40 years), much like one would 38 special brass. I much prefer this LEE FCD over the other crimp style. It does not take me an extra step to do this. I bought an old LEE 1000 Progressive and seat/crimp in one handle pull. I charge all my cases in blocks under an RCBS powder measure, don't trust the measures on progressive presses.

I've got both a LEE and RCBS FL sizers for several calibers. I check them both to see if consistency of shoulder length is the same. It doesn't seem to matter, I still get varying lengths (but only by .oo4 or so) so it's really not going to affect cannelure position in the case mouth much.

I accumulated a 5.56 small base die from dad's stash. Now, I'm wondering if the use of that might push the shoulder back even farther, since I understand it pushes m ore of the base into the die, but I don't honestly know how it works.

Every case gets dropped into a case guage, and you really can't see the difference with the naked eye of that .oo4 length variation, so I'm wondering if I'm worrying over nothing. I did have a pretty smoothe system when using the LEE trimmer, but after trimming, you had to chamfer inside and out to deburr the case mouth. With the Trim-it trimmer, that is not needed.

With .224 bullets, I have a .004 interference fit in the case mouth, plenty for a good grip without crimping, The main reason I started crimping was a big batch of undersized 55 grainers I got one time. You could pull the bullet with your fingers after seating. Yeah, I bitched to Winchester, but ended up shooting them anyway for blasting fodder, which is what a majority of my shooting would be classified anyway.
 

STG_58_guy

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I got fussed-at by one of my shooting buddies for just cramming a bullet in the Wolf factory-primed cases.

He said I should be neck-sizing to ensure consistent neck tension.

OK. He IS the guy who wins matches.

I only shoot high-master scores in slow prone.

If I could just stop shooting 7's offhand. Damn that neck-tension!

Pencil-neck that I am.
One of my benchrest buddies (well, a buddy who shoots benchrest - because I don't shoot benchrest) was at the range when I was there a couple weeks ago.

He's a real good shooter. Wins matches.

He was testing to see if "runout" affected group size.

According to him, runout didn't do shit to group size.

Now, he was shooting the "runout" rounds in a benchrest rifle. So maybe cramming the runout-rounds into the benchrest chamber straightened them out enough to make it not matter.

But I guess if your chamber in your "regular" rifle has a bunch of slop, having the cartridges have zero-runout probably doesn't do much either.

Just try to hold the damn gun still. It's usually JUST YOU.
I'm very skeptical about all that fancy reloading tech. I get yelled at a lot if I challenge any of it so I'm just going to leave it at skeptical.

I did see a video of some super duper bench guy that had a 100 yard range in his basement. He apparently dug a tunnel under the back yard. His load development process all occurred within about 100 square feet and he put bullets through the same hole over and over again. All his gear was instrumented and hooked up to computers. He controlled all those fancy variables I'm skeptical about.

He was talking about neck tension and initial pressure, which is a big deal apparently. But he said that the friction value changed by a factor of two if he let the seated bullet sit for a day as opposed to shooting them 30 seconds after seating the bullet. Some kind of bonding occurs between the shiny polished brass neck and shiny copper jacket. You comment about glue made me think of that.

My favorite bullets have been stuck together since 1968. I only have a few hundred of those left :(
 
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