• WTB / WTS / WTT ADS
    All Advertisements, including Want to Buy, Want to Sell, Want to Trade, Belong in the MARKETPLACE ONLY. Any new threads posted offering an item for sale, looking to trade or buy an item which are posted outside of Marketplace will be deleted without notice or warning. Existing threads will be moved to marketplace.
  • Marketplace Feedback Ratings
    The Marketplace feedback ratings system is now back. You can now leave feedback for your Buy / Sell / Trade transactions. Instructions on how to leave feedback ratings can be found HERE

Body Armor: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly UPDATED 3-12-2019

hueyville

Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #
74557
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Posts
9,379
Location
Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Feedback: 69 / 0 / 0
Finally have a start on my ballistic barrier site www.CoolBulletProofing.Com but have a long way to go plus have to build my body armor site. Am very excited as been researching and trying non-Newtonian*fluids for home brew armor. Have had my first success and am reatively easily making 6"×6" square panels that exceed NIJ 3a performance. Only issue is when go bigger cannot sew my panels tight enough my fluid doesn't settle but can overlap panels similar to DragonSkin body armor and create larger panels and odd shapes including curves.

It seems almost miraculous to buy a relatively common powder, mix to correct viscosity and sew between two pieces of waterproof nylon or single layers of Kevlar cloth and have it totally stop 9mm ball, 44 mag JHP's and high pressure rounds like 357 SIG and 40 Smith. I own way too much high quality body armor to use as primary means to protect my life but to finally come up with a fluid that reacts properly by becoming more rigid as impact increases and does not dry out. (Yet) Oldest panels made using my new material are about 90 days old, still flexible and still stopping bullets.

Make extra with each batch, date them and waiting to see how long before my goo gets to hard to work. Have been mostly using treated Cordura for my outer layers and use seam tape where sew panels together and have no leakage issues till after a shot or few stress my seams. Need a good industrial sewing machine that does bartack stitching. Still, good used soft armor can be found cheap if willing to buy an entire deprtments surplus when they do their five year rotation of armor as always barely worn and never worn vests in the lot as some will come never issued still in original plastic and box.

My new plates are thin steel of a proprietary alloy about 1/16" thick sandwiched between two pieces of 3/8" Dyneema under extreme pressure then has a Kevlar cover sewn over panels to protect them the rear panel has 3/16" high density close cell foam pad to cushion some ofriends the backface signture. Weight is just under four pounds per panel and will stop the new M855A1 and M80A1 projectiles from 25 feet. Supposed to do from point blank but afraid to stand that close and turn loose an M80A1 round.

Bought my first set when neighbor scared me when his dog was barking at me and his primary defense weapon is a Remington 742 in 30-06. Decided my NIJ 3+ superlight Dyneema ws not enough with him being a little nutty. Using 10.5"×12.5" rear panels and 11"×14" front panels. Due to predominance of hunting rifles used by hillbillies for hunting and defense decided NIJ 4 was a better idea even if adds almost three full pounds back to my kit.

Had a church recently want to protect people best they could with almost zero budget. Between alter and front row we built an 8" thick hip wall out of plywood during a church workday and had members filling sandbags. We carefully stacked sandbags in the wall which is 42" tall then covered with carpet to make it look decent. Except for cut outs at isles to access pulpit/podium it's a solid wall almost length of church. Have another day seduced and going to remove one row of pews about 3/4 way back and build another. Six inches of sand will stop most rifle bullets and they have eight inches.

Members are told if have shooter do their best to get on opposite side of sand bags from perpetrator while getting as low ND close as possible while security team tries to neutralize the threat. When get second wall they will have some recourse, sand was cheap, just had to make sure and dry it well before bagging and had it treated for bugs whIle drying in an outbuilding. Those folks put in two hard dys of work. Learning to go low tech and cheap for those who have no other way while others can drop $75 per square foot for ballistic fiberglass and abrasion resistant polycarbonate installed price if big budget facility or corporate facility. I think $75 per square foot installey and finished for NIJ 3a barriers is fair considering cost of materials. U.L. 5 and above gets expensive but only doctors and pharmacies are paying for rifle protection barriers currently. Lots of pharmacists are now wearing armor when lock doors and walk to car after dark now.
 

009.5

Well-known member
FALaholic #
11539
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
Posts
372
Location
One of the several States comprising The United St
Feedback: 144 / 0 / 0
Huey, I initially was offering the STF-Impregnated armor back in 2005 (PEG and/or nano-particle silica/nano particle CaCO2). Performance was impressive.

STF-impregnated armor must remain wetted, and so the biggest issue was picking the encapsulation method (ended up going with anti-static bags), and eventually dropped it because the bags added weight, bulk, and if they developed a tear, would leak the STF. STF is an interesting concept, but until a method is perfected for actually using it in the real world, it will remain strictly a lab curiosity.

From my experience, the STF also caused accelerated degradation of the Aramid fibers that were used. My theory is the particles acted as micro-abrasives, leading to a drop-off in ballistic effectiveness of 15-20% after being worn for a year. This is unacceptable, and I would not wear STF as currently conceived.

The next big evolutionary shift in soft armor is going to be M5 Fiber, and until that comes out, we are going to be looking at small, incremental improvements in areal density (I am currently working with carbon-nanotube enhanced Aramids, since UHMWPE is on its way out IMHO).

The chemistry of Aramid fiber has hit a plateau, and until the spinneret tension roadblock is solved regarding M5, CNT-enhanced Aramid offers the best solution for continued soft armor improvement.

Best of luck with your structural armoring startup, there is still a large demand for up-armoring houses and dwellings.
 
Last edited:

1769

Well-known member
FALaholic #
66611
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Posts
1,236
Location
Wells, Vermont, USA
Feedback: 1 / 0 / 0
OK. So I've read this thread with interest, but I will admit that I don't follow all of the technical aspects discussed in it. So with that being said. Can one of you guys recommend something in the way of armor and carrier. And what type of money are we talking. I'd be looking to still be able to move and shoot as well as just staying stationary. The only body armor that I have ever worn was IIa, under my uniform.
 

hueyville

Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #
74557
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Posts
9,379
Location
Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Feedback: 69 / 0 / 0
Its now officially been just over five years since I left my house without body armor. Even when I go for my outpatient nerve blocks & Radio Frequency Ablations (or any doctors appointment) wear armor. About a month ago had my first save. Was cutting a 4'×8' sheet of 0.080" (same thickness as traffic control signs) into 12"×12" squares. Have a big Delta Unisaw with 4'×8' outfeed table so able to handle large sheets of plywood, polycarbonate, plywood, etc by myself. Had cut the sheet into 1'×4' strips and had started running them through to get my squares when one bound between blade/rip fence and the saw threw it back at me so fast could barely see it much less dodge. The foot by foot square hit me dead center of stomach just below my ribcage with corner. Cut a huge gash in my shirt, cut a three inch gash in covert armor carrier and even left a small 1/4" hole in the Level 1 stab panel exposing the blue covering of the armor panel. Had I not had the vest on odds are would have laid in front of saw trying to hold my intestines in till I bled out as cell phone has no service in back of building due to steel roof, steel doors and concrete full of rebar. Not a gunshot or knife but likely a mortal wound had it not been for my vest. Was wearing a short vest and lucky the piece hit me high as it did rather than in waist or groin area. Now have a front entry vest with groin protector that has a 6"×6" titanium plate on top of the groin protectors soft armor put on anytime cutting non ferrous metals on table saw.

My daily wear kits range from small with long straps that bottom edge sits an inch above belly button and has about a three inch gap down my sides during hotest part of summer for work days out in the field as always 90° plus with 90% plus humidity during June, July and August. Spring and Fall wear kits where front & side panels touch but do not overlap and bottom edge sits right at belly button level. Late fall through early spring and any day not working outside like doctors, grocery shopping, etc wear kits that ride just above belt level with about two inches of overlap at sides to keep oblique angle shots out of torso.

Most of my daily wear kits have NIJ 2 soft armor with Level 1 stab panels then 6"×9" Dyneema Special Threat plates in chest panel. For indoors, cool weather, riding in temperature controlled vehicle majority of day wear basically the same kit with 8"×10" Dyneema plate in froñt and have pockets added to rear that hold 5.5"×10.5" NIJ 3 trauma pad over spine. My back pads are made from the high tech Gold Shield trade name and are actually thinner than many of my NIJ 2 panels. Days I see doctors in Atlanta or go to areas that feel are high threat wear NIJ 3a kits with 8"×10" Dyneema front plates and 8"×10" Protech flexible Dyneema rear plates.

All of my personal overt rifle kits have full overlap coverage NIJ 3a soft armor with NIJ 3/ICW 4 or full NIJ 4 Dyneema (UHMWPE) plates that if do not float in water are too heavy for me. My three favorite kits have 11"×13" plates in front, 10"×12" plates rear and have Stealth Armor Systems "Hexar" NIJ 3++ 5.5"×10" flexible side panels. Have significant mobility issues if run hard plates in my side panels. Hexar is also light enough to float. For my overt kits rule is 22 pound max weight with carrier, soft liner, soft/hard plate mix, five to seven loaded magazines, two radios or one radio and pistol plus IFAK, extra tourniquet, etc. Like to keep it down around 18 pounds but generally have to run 10"×12" ICW 4 plates front and rear to keep it that light and have full loadout rather than my 11"×13" front plates or full NIJ 4 plates. 18 to 22 pounds is a very manageable fully equipped kit which includes flexible Hexar NIJ 3++ groin protectors as well.

Wall Of Text Segway Warning:
While I find deals on everything except my S.A.S. Hexar panels only buy their small accessory panels as a full Hexar kit cracks a thousand bucks before add any accessories. Also have learned to use single magazine shingles in front center and only use double thick mag carriers and other bulky accessories closer to side as makes crawling on my belly much easier not having the extra thickness dead center of torso. I actually wore an overt kit just after midnight in the early morning hours of Thanksgiving meeting the cops to sweep my business after burglar alarm went off due to a squirrel getting in and setting off two motion sensors. Cops were at building next door even though my building had turned on every exterior security light and strobe was flashing on the front as horn turns off after five minutes unless another sensor pops so does not disturb the residential neighbors till I can arrive and disarm the thing.

Turned into gates, hopped out in full overt kit set up for 6.8 spc II ARs, MICH high ear helmets with PVS 14, I.R. and visible light module on left side rail plus set of MSA Sordin hear thru muffs tethered to dual radio PTT attached to a freebanded HT that has full coverage receive/transmit from low band VHF through 500 MHz UHF with digital trunking capability and my cell phone. Had a 14.7" AR 15 in 6.8 with I.R. and visible laser aiming module plus 1x red/green night vision compatabile optic. Had key in door and was pushing it open with muzzle of rifle with it's tactical light on as they wheeled into the parking lot. Had alarm disarmed by time they were out of cars and at door. Usually at that point (in past three false alarms over 35 years was wearing covert armor, no helmet and had 1911 in hand) cops ask me to step aside as they sweep the building but last week they said for me to lead the way and stayed behind me with hands on pistols but not drawn.

As I flipped on lights as went through each room of office area first office had stacks of armor been selling, second room is my FN FAL build room and when unlocked there was an L2a1 sitting on desk for maintenance they started hanging farther back. Next room was ham radio shack with dozens of radios, amplifiers, large computer monitors and entire sofa was covered with three stacks of body armor then unlocked my private office (have to enter building then two additional locked doors to access) where there was a SKS with 20 round box magazine plus the dim glow from its tritium sights till hit light switch which had them getting really hinky. They stayed in entry area to the main shop from that point till I swept the big room and got the lights on. Have two rooms in rear of shop not counting paint booth of which one is my AR 15 and AR 10 assembly room plus where gun vault is then other room is my 1911 and 10/22 assembly room. All the machine equipment, metal fabrication area, wood working area with all their large machines mixed with rooms full of partially to mostly assembled firearms plus the lift in rear corner with a 1988 Harley am restoring, two vintage Hemis, several NOS Mopar transmissions plus a Harley Flathead motor on work stand all in their areas of main shop had their eyes bugging out.

As went back through room of radios/radar monitors/electronics and body armor to my office with loaded combloc rifle over desk had the deputies a bit overwhelmed. When I mentioned reason I showed up wearing Level 4 rated overt rifle rated kit was the SKS was loaded with AP rounds capable of defeating NIJ 3 rated rifle armor to 40 yards believe they got the message to wait for me or the SWAT Team if they arrived another time to find door kicked in and no idea if there were perps inside who had found a vest and the rifle. Did tell them all the overt vests except a hidden personal kit did not have rifle plates installed as generally do not sell plates but there was a stack with a dozen plates on my desk. Believe they will wait and let me sweep the place if have another false but next day had new hole squirrels had chewed in soffit patched with metal plate which is a constant battle and wby wrapped the eves of house with mix of 0.125" and 1/4" T6 aluminum but work would be a huge undertaking to wrap all the trim with some form of metal but may have to.
 

Tailback

Well-known member
FALaholic #
26070
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Posts
1,665
Location
Salem, OR
Feedback: 3 / 0 / 0
Why soft armor. You're only planning to be shot with pistol?
I already have plates buddy. The CIRAS also has plate pockets and is releasable. Good stuff if you want the full meal deal. I've already got a multicam full setup, but for $80 I couldn't pass up a brand new OD green one.

Edit: After 22 years I suppose the wife deserved some protection also. :cool:
 

otis61

Well-known member
Gold Contributor
FALaholic #
26667
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Posts
2,279
Location
N.W.coast
Feedback: 43 / 0 / 0
I already have plates buddy. The CIRAS also has plate pockets and is releasable. Good stuff if you want the full meal deal. I've already got a multicam full setup, but for $80 I couldn't pass up a brand new OD green one.

Edit: After 22 years I suppose the wife deserved some protection also. :cool:
Got ya.
 

brunop

Refresh Key Masher
Staff member
Platinum Contributor
Gold Contributor
FALaholic #
17136
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Posts
16,226
Location
Oregon
Feedback: 116 / 1 / 2
Any sort of frag: spall off of a plate, spall off of a brick or stone wall, secondary spall from grenade or ied / vbied.

I never served, and I never wore it. The guys I see wearing it are in stationary emplacements, tank turrets, security positions, etc.
 

hueyville

Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #
74557
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Posts
9,379
Location
Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Feedback: 69 / 0 / 0
Any advice on BALCS soft armor? Where and what to buy? Ebay has some screaming deals on Eagle CIRAS carriers.
For the folks who don't know (OP asking does) BALCS soft armor panels are full torso coverage pistol/subgun rated that wear under your plates in appropriate kit. BALCS (also known as SPEAR) is a specific shape and not compatabile with most carriers and most carriers will not accept BALCS panels unless you cut them open, reshape each layer of Kevlar to what's needed then resew them in cover appropriately re-shaped. At one time I had a lot of BALCS surplus and did this but regret it now as still find deals on BALCS carriers but there are almost zero deals on BALCS panels.

I can currently get BALCS soft panels in three different versions rated NIJ 3a plus the original milspec of rating for "burst from 9mm submachinegun". Your rifle plates are generally only 10"×12" covering 120 Sq Inches. A set of BALCS panels in size large cover 477 Sq Inches of torso. Your rifle plates basically protect heart and lungs from direct front or rear hit. A hit outside of that area or spall off a round hitting something hard next to you or spall from round as passes through your cover need to have as much torso covered possible. Also many threats will not be rifle and if sprayed by a subgun such as MAC 10, MP 5, etc I want as much coverage to stop said rounds. BALCS panels look like this and overlap on sides to keep oblique angle shots out.

2021-02-12 18.00.31.png

2021-02-12 18.01.20.png
I like my BALCS carriers (both made by First Spear) with their very comfortable add ons. The nut flap on BALCS is much more ergonomic and only shape that Stealth Armor makes flexible NIJ 3 panels for. Their Hexar flexible NIJ 3 side panels are also size for BALCS carriers but will fit in some IOTV side carriers. I wear a medium but can wear a large as well so hAve a mix of both for myself in case ever put on a few pounds. Currently I can buy NIJ 3a BALCS panels in three weights for size large based on price am willing to pay. Standard weight are 6.5 pounds for front and rear panel set, mid weight are 5.0 pounds and lightest NIJ 3a rated large BALCS are 3.6 pounds but pay for them. So you can cheap out and end up with a rifle kit that weighs 26 pounds and does not even have two square feet of totalking coverage or can wrap your entire torso, shoulders, groin, sacrum and more with over 600 square inches of pistol rated armor and over 300 square inches of rifle rated that weighs 18 pounds. Pull out the check book and ate up, it's your @$$.

I only own one plate carrier that only holds 10"×12" plates (SAPI cut front, clipped corner rectangle rear) and my other twenty rifle kits have full coverage soft armor under the rifle plates. I keep a set of add on side plates behind seat if have to put on the plate carrier over my covert armor and have time to add them in a "bug home" situation. Most of my full coverage rifle kits have side panels (mix of NIJ 3a, flexible NIJ 3 Hexar to rigid 3/ICW 4 hard) of some sort to augment the underlying soft armor. USGI IOTV is still the best setup for the money if pull the heavy USGI hard plates and replace with lighter upgraded versions. Love my IOTV with shooters cut 11.5"×13" NIJ 4 front, clipped corner rectangular 10"×12" rear and 6"×10" Hexar side panels.

I am always on the lookout for bargains in BALCS panels, especially the lightweight 3a, as have a few BALCS carriers waiting for inserts. Idea of only having a 10"×12" plate with top corners clipped as my only armor is not on my preferred list. I want entire torso wrapped with soft armor, biggest, thinnest, lightest, hard plates I can get. Can't wait for something similar to Hexar that is NIJ 4 as flexible armor really is a game changer. In my favorite high threat covert kit has super thin NIJ 3a panels that overlap and carries a set of 10"×10" Tencate NIJ rifle plates that are just under 1/2" thick and only weigh 1.2 pounds each but are not even advertised on their website. Are sold to special ops units only and mine were gifted from a sales rep who had gotten a new set of samples. A covert NIJ 3 kit is a rare bird.

Off Topic (Except I own armor made specifically for three of below named teams)
Military usually does not use NIJ ratings though I have two very slick kits with DARPA labels rated NIJ 3a "special threat". Supposidly the DARPA kits were made for Tier 1 teams to wear covert in places U.S. troops were not supposed to be and armor being visible would blow their cover. In U.S. their are only a few Tier 1 teams and only SEAL Team 6 is Tier 1, the rest of the SEALsame are Tier 2. A friend from Team 7 says only thing they know how to do is swim, break down doors, blow stuff up and kill people. Team 6 does most of the slick stuff. In U.S. Tier 1 teams rank in this order if read fifty reviews and average their rankings.
1. US Army Delta Force (1st SFOD-D)
2. DEVGRU, SEAL Team 6
3. US Army Intelligence Support Activity
4. Air Force Special Reconnaissance
5. Marine Corps Raiders
6. Navy SEALS
7. USMC Force Reconnaissance
8. US Army 75th Ranger Regiment
9. USMC ANGLICO
10. USAF Pararescuemen, PJ
 

hueyville

Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #
74557
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Posts
9,379
Location
Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Feedback: 69 / 0 / 0
Came about a LOT of information on new soft and hard body armor in a less than usual fashion. Over the course of lots of experimenting and testing odd ideas combined with a full steel/metal fabrication shop, ability to heat treat, machine shop, Magnaflux, etc in house developed two types of inexpensive to manufacture fixed armor that work extremely well. Picked least expensive and lightest, gave all my technical drawings, specifications and a sample panel to a patent attorney. He set his staff to doing research and turns out a design was patented in 2012 that is close enough to my design can not get a patent or even make and sell without infringing on other patent holder which sold his idea to a company that shelved it. He found the similarities so quickly and at a fair price gave him my other design which also had a design patented so close to it in 2014 cannot use it either except for personal use. He even cautioned me not to publish drawings of mine since owners of both patents bought from developed=r like me and shelved them due to low manufacturing cost and ease of manufacture they feel there is more profit in their current products and due to weight they are only good in fixed configurations. way to heavy to put on vehicles, ships, etc.

One thing he did do was give me access to his patent search system where there are literally tens of thousands of different armor patents worldwide in effect. These range from small handheld shields, lightweight nano technology soft armor, flexible ceramic body armor to passive/reactive anti-missile and artillery armor. There is some really fine stuff in the pipeline with majority though having issue manufacturing on large scale or final cost issues to be solved. That said I found a lot of ideas that I can leverage say inside the walls of my home and nobody is going to complain such as variations on my designs that work better. Turn out there were have been improvements on both of the designs mine emulated that others have received new patents were issued as improvements made enough changes to warrant new patents. Does not mean I can't take my ideas, incorporate some of the improvements and use inside the walls of my house.

Have spent most of my spare time past few weeks reading through just U.S., Canadian, Australian and some E.U. patents. There are a metric of Russian, Korean, Asian, etc which I have no clue how to read the text but can glean some from diagrams on simple products. Much of the new soft armor has the same issue of requiring a sealed environment to live in and once that the environment gets even the slightest leak it all goes to crap. Some is hard to keep in place without it migrating even using many chambers but my guess is people are working furiously on solving the issues. Biggest issue to much is its cost to make and time it takes per square foot.

Have found one patent using strips of Kevlar, wrapping a specific ceramic tile with the strip, place next tile, folded strip in a way similar to origami paper folding till had long pieces one tile in width. Laid out a rectangle of tiles strips then using same width Kevlar strips threading them through each row like putting an accessory pouch on molle till had finished size without sewing. Using two different tile sizes sewed two panels in a manner had no gaps into a cover with two layers of Kevlar comprising the cover with a few internal layers and came up with a reasonably light and semi flexible panel that tested NIJ 3. Amazingly simple but also have tried to absorb documents with over one hundred pages of technical chemistry and physics principles to understand on top of NASA level manufacturing techniques.

Spent most of today just reading three documents on passive and reactive armor for structures with one being specifically designed to protect both flat and pitched roofs from threats of all types including rifles, RPGs, mortars, etc that while is ugly would not be overly hard to implement if wife would go for it. wouldn't be cheap or even reachable with my budget but in government dollars its relatively cheap. Do have some ideas of material that would be good to have in the storage sheds to install as able if society collapses to extend first layer of home defense to being reactive armor that stood proud of the house keeping first vollyes from hitting the structure at all. I no longer have access to his server but have discovered Google has a very strong patent search version that will help one data mine information if willing to work for it.
 

hueyville

Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #
74557
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Posts
9,379
Location
Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Feedback: 69 / 0 / 0
Got home from work early yesterday to find wife working in flower bed (70° and sunny but too windy to go to rifle range) and noticed she was wearing $165 pair of London Bridge Trading NIJ 3a tactical knee pads to grovel in dirt. Explained to her (she knows most of it or did) we have industrial, skateboarding/rollerblading/martial arts, various military surplus from $10 to $75 price then high end ballistic military and police ballistic knee/shin pads with prices up to $500. She needed to be in a $15 USGI surplus if preferred fit of milspec rather than $165 or more expensive ballistic rated knee pads to work in her flower beds.


Went to basement and popped open what I thought was chest of knee pads to see every version of PUG, POG, hip/thigh protector from underwear to various outerwear including multiple generations of military, police and high dollar civilian pieces. Even found a few misplaced blast belts as normally keep near rifle kits and use as extra ballistic item for mounting drop leg accessories rather than just a plain battle belt with similar size and bulk and just a small difference from the internal ballistic panels.


Began wearing PUGs rather than standard underwear both with and without trauma panels cor daily wear. They are comfortable, antimicrobial, antifungal, fire proof, blast resistant, cut proof and more. Protect from and arteries in hips from all sorts of potential damage. Generally pay $19 to $29 per sealed three pack with one pair of trauma pads and up to $50 for some of the newer higher threat models.

page_1_thumb_large.jpg

Blast-Boxers-Bulletproof-Underwear.jpg

s-l1600-14.jpg

I have about eightteen pair in rotation in small and medium. Wife has bone pair in rotation all women's small except one pack of mediums. That said in locker have dozens of packs in men's from size small to XXL and women's from size small to large. Have USGI mostly Army issue, some other versions used by Marine Corps plus British issue. When look at how vascular the hips are its obvious why protecting the area is paramount. We even have a few pairs of full NIJ 2, NIJ 2/3a mix of panels and NIJ 3a underwear.

US-Armor-Ballistic-Underwear.jpg

We have few pair of full ballistic rated undergarments from two vendors. Would like to buy more but have not seen any I stock anywhere for over a year. Last two pair purchased were clearance items. I have two pair with mix of NIJ 2 and 3a panels plus one pair rated NIJ 3a. Wife has two pair made in Australia for females with mix of NIJ 2 and 3a panels. Would sure like to find more such as a size large in case I put on weight later down the road. Unsure why I cannot find anyone retailing these or anything similar.

gabriel-down-under-Arteries.png
 

Attachments:

Last edited:

hueyville

Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #
74557
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Posts
9,379
Location
Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Feedback: 69 / 0 / 0
Have been working for years on the most elegant and durable system to power and connect all my radios (beyond their internal/attached battery pack), scanners and cell phones. Backup power for night vision, shot calculation computer (modified Dell handheld running software by Night Force), cables for headsets, extra power for night vision, etc as in todays world the man who has the most tools available along with power to run them and Good FIELDCRAFT Skills has an advantage. Looked at the EFB SWIPES Kit Multicam IOTV Retrofit Radio Pouch Charger Adapter/Cables kit for years but not been willing to drop $350 plus on a wiring kit with extra power pack when able to cobble my own together with mix of the odd military issue parts like PTT switches but for the most part take a pile of adapters, wire, soldering iron and adhesivive lined heat shrink to build my own harnesses to suit each kit.

Bought a vest from eBay seller who didn't know anything about armor nor how to list it. Could not tell if it had the soft armor inserts, rifle plates or what accessories. Just advertised a Point Blank OTV carrier and no knowledge of any other accessories. Seller has a store where people who don't sell on eBay drop off items then he resells taking a percentage. Noticed he had no other armor sales I past six months but had what appeared to be complete kit listed with a single poor photo calling it a used Point blank former "Point Blank USGI bullet proof vest". What he failed to mention or show well enough in photos was it was either a Gen II or Gen IV which few eBay buyers know exist. What was stunning is it turned out to be a Gen IV when it arrived.

Checked sellers other auctions and he had a pile of uniforms and equipment all same size and all seemed to be near new, advertised as used and several pieces looked as if never been worn. Another item was a MICH high ear helmet with N-Rail, night vision mount, nice helmet cover but seller took no photos without the helmet cover for people to recognize it was a Foxtrot 70. Just had a single photo from the top, no front, side or inside views but I could tell it was either a Chinese made knock off or real deal but the battery/counterwight pocket and bungee cords looked to be in good shape and sewn properly and took an under $200 gamble on it to luck out bigtime and get a real deal 3M/Cerradyne F70 with like new cover.

Most of the uniforms looked to be real, not Chinese knock off Multicam so purchased a few of the pieces and could tell by the liners the cold weather/waterprrof gear was Patagonia made. Assumed someone who didn't want anyone to easily track items back to them had mustered out keeping all their issued gear and took it to one of the many eBay sellers that broker items for people who don't know how to or want to deal with selling on eBay. If I had just mustered out, had several thousand dollars in latest gear and didn't want to get in a trap selling myself would likely do the same but would be darn sure to tell seller exactly what each item was,reak every piece into separate auctions, not lump all the helmet stuff into one auction with single picture and description saying "helmet with accessories". Would check auction when went live then call my seller demanding photos of all items in each auction, not just a single picture of main piece with description saying each item has multiple accessories not pictured.

Bought the Multicam IOTV Gen IV vest at price less than have paid for well worn for a Gen 1 ACU. If had come with only soft armor would have been a deal but it also had front, rear and side plates which have no name brand marked, no "do not drop" warnings and only label is on inside. They are lighter than most 30-06 AP plates have used other than my "military sales only" Tencate and Hard Wire "LEO sales only" plates paid big for but only label says 7.62x63 APM2, 5.56x45 M855, 7.62.39 API BZ on 10.5"x12.5" front and rear plates which weigh 4.6 pounds each and the 6"x8" side plates weigh 1.4 pounds each but have no idea who made them yet. Vest came with neck/throat protection, deltoid protection, groin and lower back protection and all soft armor in each accessory. Paid less for entire kit than just the shoulder DAPs/deltoid protectors generally bring on eBay.

Vest had a wad of wires/pouches which turned out to be a full EFB SWIPES II PD Multicam IOTV Retrofit kit with Radio Pouch, central charger hub, charger adapter cables, USB hub, extension cables to use as need, 150 watt flexible battery for up to 24 hours use of most electronics, digital data transmission compatible, powers video receivers, military GPS (DAGR), mine detectors, tablets, phones and more. All wires rout inside the carrier so do not flop and snag plus are heavily reinforced and shielded from RFI. The helmet was a separate auction advertised as a along with MSA Sordin dual radio PTT, antenna relocation kit, folding blade type antenna with maximum length of 42" but can be folded up to three times where shortest length is 18". Put the antenna on my antenna analyzer and is resonant on military bands of 30 to 88 MHz up through aircraft, marine and ham VHF bands and up though the 70 cm public service, fire and ham bands. wheter fully extended, fully folded or partially folded it stays resonant but loses gain as user shortens it.

Helmet shipped with complete Norotos titanium night vision mount system with J-Arm plus had a battery in the rear pouch with proper wires routed to keep night vision running longer than just the internal battery plus a MSA Sordin dual input headset. Only paid $150 for helmet but had seller photographed all accessories and properly listed vest as Gen IV would have brought over $1,000 easily and helmet easily $500 to $700. Can only assume seller din't know how to market the stuff or like a lot of folks are having issues with eandle deal outside of eBay.Bay is pulling listings of USGI armor if photos are too detailed. Have one guy who has relisted same Woodland pattern IOTV Gen II five times and eBay has pulled every time and he has even tried telling me what time will list, I will be watching his items and when it pops up eBay does not let me close the "buy now" saying item violates terms of their rules. Odd how many list obvious military armor and others get it janked, think seller I am dealing with told too much first time listed and now they are watching him to keep him from slipping it through on a quick buy now plus have flagged his message box and we have yet to come up with a way to pass contact info to handle deal outside of eBay.

Currently have one helmet with MSA Sordin headset and one with 3M Peltor that were each more than double what I paid for the helmet, accessories and MSA headset in this deal. Have learned there is a reason the EFB SWIPES II PD IOTV Retrofit Radio Pouch Charger Adapter Cables kit at $299 to $350 is a bargain over cobbling up my own version as have to buy over $100 in parts to somewhat replicate it but only for accessories on vest as don't have easy plug and play add a cable to a hub for other accessories down the road. Ordered three more of the EFB Swipes kits and another pair of MSA Sordin dual radio PTTs to simplify and add auxillary power for all my accessories no maatter how I rearrange it.

Since most of my radios are Icom have been keeping one spare Icom radio battery along with mix of CR 123s, AA and AAA all in an accessory pouch but can't imagine having to swap batteries in night vision, dot optic or I.R. laser in the middle of a confrontation. Having vest and helmet cleanly wired to run all accessories for longer than my body could probably hold up is worth the cost of accessories I have considered too much to pay for some time. Goal now is to find a few extra flexible batteries so if run a vest low on power can swap one battery that will recharge majority of all devices in one action.

On rear of vest was also one of the $200 three liter low profile water bladders and a flat woven low band VHF antenna in multicam that is resonant from 30 MHz to 90 MHz for second radio. Vest came with dozens of accessory pouches for M4 and SR-25 mags, IFAK, drop pouch and some accessory pouches have never seen nor been able to figure them out as all of the tags with manufacturer and NSN numbers have been carefully removed from each piece. This is the nicest kit I have ever scored in one piece at any price. Another auction had what was advertised as a "battle belt" turned out to be a blast belt with all armor panels which with the IOTV GEN IV vest being a Large/Short do not have side armor messing with bending and crouching but the blast belt protects the waist area and allows carry of extra gear or drop leg accessories.

Have ordered more of the MSA Sordin dual radio PTTs, more EFB Swipes kits and trying to figure out what some other accessories are along with who makes the plates. I had three personal overt kits which I consider Caddilacs but this almost rivals First Spear kit with Dyneema plates, the Tactical Tailor kit and my Stealth Armor Hexar kit. Bought a lot of the other stuff vendor was selling and did find one garment which had patches on one sleeve for 75th Ranger Battalion but do not generally see a Tier 2 unit with this level of accessories and kit. I bet actual owner was upset when discovered how little his items sold for and like said, do not know if seller was trying to keep eBay from pulling listings or was just retarded but got a nice kit. Bought three decent kits this week on "buy nows" by watching new listings and making offers withing a few minutes of listings going up fishing for sellers who need quick cash. this works maybe one out of ten times but this week was a good week. Also purchased three covert kits of which two came with K30 trauma plates and one had a Protech Dyneema plate. The covert kits had watched a month and after seller listed four times with no bids when fourth listing ended sent an offer which closed he deals at my price as they were tired of listing fees and no sales. EBay has been tough past few months but past two weeks has seemed to lossen up.
 

hueyville

Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #
74557
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Posts
9,379
Location
Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Feedback: 69 / 0 / 0
Have an agreement with my mail carrier at work not to deliver on Saturday ever as normally closed or after 4:30 on Friday if he is running late because always try to be gone before 4:30 even if still working, try to be on a job site that is on side of Mayberry the Ponderosa is located to keep from fighting 5:00 pm traffic through town. If going to be out a couple days leave a note in mailbox saying not to deliver till X date. Wednesday left a note saying would be out of office Thursday, Friday and Saturday so hold all packages till Monday. My normal mail carrier also knows to leave all packages in a semi hidden drop box under dry storage area on side of main building no matter what day if I am not at shop. Had knee procedure Thursday morning, planned to be off through today so left not saying to not deliver till Tuesday as expecting some valuable items.

Today was checking my work email and happened to look at tracking on inbound packages to see five deliveries marked delivered but not when. I had checked tracking Saturday just in case but all showed still out for delivery thus expected carrier was sitting on them as per his normal following directions. Thought it odd but expected he may have delivered today and would at least be in drop box so logged into my work DVRs with cameras that watched drop box running at 48x times normal speed allowing me to see if anyone dropped without wasting hours watching at 1x to 8x speed. Nobody approached building but saw a mail truck on the camera at corner of building looking toward mailbox stop about 4:30 Saturday, nothing till lunchtime today so jumped in the big comfy truck and headed on over. The Saturday driver had to have not know to hold them or about drop box.

There were two packages crammed in mailbox and three large boxes sitting under the mailbox less than five feet off the white line of the road. My regular carrier must have taken his one Saturday per month off and the fill-in driver dumped three days of packages at mailbox then left. They sat till I happened to check today and rushed on over. These were nice boxes, all large, one with the name of a upper tier police supply house printed on four sides of box marked fragile. Bushiness is in neighborhood that is half residential and half business with most of house occupied by gang banger or drug addict renters of the month. Had a brand new Protech Gen 4 LT helmet in the box from police supply, other box had a brand new SWAT level issue law enforcement entry vest and final box sitting on ground had a pair of Hesco NIJ 3++ and pair of Tencate NIJ 3/ICW 4 rifle plates. In the mailbox was a soft package with nine new pair of Tier 1 PUGs with three pair of soft armor for the PUGs and in a smallish box with two combination I.R. illuminator/I.R. laser sighting devices purchased to add night vision capability to a bedside rifle and a shotgun.

The reason we had this agreement not to deliver on Saturday or late on Friday was had a nice clean used SWAT type law enforcement vest left leaning against my front door on a Friday, tracking showed a box ordered with three used carriers delivered and wife felt bad so was not worried about the carriers, I actually did not come to work till following Wednesday. What I did not know was vendor had mixed up his labels sending me the vest and my carriers to another customer. Because the carrier left the package against door USPS insurance said would not reimburse seller for his vest and he refused to send me my carriers. All I was out is cost of some used carriers but there is a nice vest floating around the neighborhood and one eBay vendor who won't sell to me anymore as told him it was on him to deal with USPS insurance to which he said had not insured the vest. I was not paying for a vest I didn't order and USPS said had he insured it they would have paid as it was not supposed to be left abandoned on a day business is marked as closed.

My normal mail carrier is very careful with my packages now because of that vest floating around but never considered a scab driver dropping three days of packages on a Saturday and it not pop up on tracking as delivered till Monday. Before covid had all armor and expensive items sent USPS go to my P.O. Box but because place is always stuffed with a long line began having them sent to work directly to avoid that line. Guess all armor is going to be shipped to P.O. Box from now on as waiting for a package right now marked out for delivery which has another vest with plates do not want to find laying in the dirt or worse tomorrow. If mail carrier does not show up till after 5:00 pm I guess I didmore work than planned today. My luck will be my regular driver and he wont even stop because said i note no deliveries till Tuesday. Am darn lucky the big pile of boxes were still sitting neatly under the mailbox when realized something was odd and came to work. Last thing I needed was this pile going to the gang bangers.
 

hueyville

Well-known member
Bronze Contributor
FALaholic #
74557
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Posts
9,379
Location
Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Feedback: 69 / 0 / 0
Question about the spall covers. Do they completely wrap the steel plates? Last two times I tested steel plates with Kevlar spall covers in front had issues with spall spewing out from between the plates and covers. Rifle bullets were passing through the covers (NIJ 2 and NIJ 3 tested) hitting the plates and pieces of bullet jackets or internal penetrators or lead spitting out the sides like peanut butter between two pieces of bread if use too much. As round count increses the amount of spall that covers do not catch increases causing the chin/neck and groin/hip areas of my mannequin to look like it was sandblasted with bullet fragments. I hae some steel that is ibedded in Kelar or other materials but it is a very thin layer with full wrap that is well bonded.
 
Top