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9mm Magnum

hueyville

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Have loaded 9mm×19, 9mm×21 and 9mm×23 but never even seen any 9mm×29 in person. Have always felt if able to find 30 round 9mm×23 mags and a lower would build my first AR in a pistol cartridge. 9×23 is hot enough to get near rifle range with say a 10.5" to 12.5" barrel and would be a great SBR to carry with a 9mm IPSC built 2011 as your backup. Feel it would work to 125/150 yards in an SBR length barrel well enough to depend on as figure most defensive situations outside of collapse of society if opposing force is more than 150 yards away best bet is to just drive away.
 

Eeben

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You were my last hope for advice Hueyville! I guess I'll be traveling into the unknown with the little knowledge I gained from internet searching.
 

hueyville

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Did you just trip over a deal or you plan to build one? Looking at the ballistics 357 SIG is a dead ringer if not a tad faster with same diameter and weight bullet. 357 SIG stacks well in a magazine and mine are easy to load for, have pleasant recoil, etc. You could stack a couple more rounds in the same size magazine but unless trying to do some kind of crazy race gun I would go for something more common to find brass for. What the heck you doing with a 9mm Mag?
 

unwanted

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Back in the late 70s, early 80s, Tim LeGrange of Fenton, MI converted M-1 carbines to 9mm Win Mag, and 45 Win Mag. The 45 morphed into the 45 Socom while the 9mm just disappeared. I have one of each, but fired just a few rounds out of the 9mm. Loaded up a box of 9mm win Mag, Winchester brass, years ago, but no longer have the load data. It's on the planning board for this summer once the snow and cold are gone.

Loads will depend on rifle or handgun. Have to admit that in these days, the 357 Sig sure looks like a good defense gun in an M-1, and brass is easier to come by. Do remember that 223 cases can be used, BUT the necks have to be reamed because they're too thick to load. The carbine mags work well and require no modification for the 9mm.

Please tell us about your project, and please keep us updated.
 
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Eeben

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A buddy has an Automag chambered in 9mm win mag and wants some ammo loaded up. I am experienced enough at reloading to give it a shot.

He has the dies and a bunch of brass and primers for me to use, just need an appropriate powder. He thought he had projectiles but they are berrys 115gr plated and only rated to 1250fps which is only adequate for a light loading so I'm looking for a better bullet too.

An M1 carbine shooting 9mm magnum sounds spicy!
 

unwanted

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"...need an appropriate powder... I'm looking for a better bullet too."
Check for 38 Super loads. Those should be a good starting point, and use different bullets and powders. Maybe bullets in the 124-147 range.

"An M1 carbine shooting 9mm magnum sounds spicy!"
The M-1 is rated to 38-40,000psi, and the starting 9mm Mag loads are in the 30,000-33,000 psi range, so it should be fine at the low end, even with the thinner chamber walls. That's why the loads will be on the low end. I'm out to have fun, easy shooting loads, not max power loads.

Now, the 45 Win Mag is another story. One day this summer it will be fired, but first couple of rounds will be with a fish line. Reloads will be the starting point only, which are still in the 30,000psi range. BUT, the chamber walls are a lot thinner than the 9mm chambers, so those loads will be the mildest kind. Again, just an easy shooting load. More of a shootable collector gun than a shooting gun.
 

Eeben

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Got myself some Hornady 115gr FMJ projectiles that should hold up better at high speed than the plated Berrys (limit is 1250fps). Unfortunately I had to get 3k of them so I'll have some extras to get rid of since my normal 9mm load is the uber cheap cast or plated.
 

Wildcat

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Have always felt if able to find 30 round 9mm×23 mags and a lower would build my first AR in a pistol cartridge. 9×23 is hot enough to get near rifle range with say a 10.5" to 12.5" barrel and would be a great SBR to carry with a 9mm IPSC built 2011 as your backup.
Someone makes an insert kit for P-mags to allow a standard 223 magazine to feed 9x19 into a pistol caliber upper. Wonder if there is a way to modify the mag insert so it will handle 9x23 instead.

I assume the 2011 is in 9x23. Those magazines with extensions will deliver 30 rounds of 9x23 but you would have to modify the AR to accept them (lower and bolt). Also I would prefer a double feed mag in the AR over a single feed mag.
 

Eeben

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UPDATE: Finally got a chance to test the initial hand load out of the AMT Automag III.

Load data for 9mm Magnum (9x29):
115gr Hornady FMJ
15.4gr of Accurate #9
Federal Small Magnum Pistol Match primer
Starline brass
OAL 1.51
Just enough crimp to make sure the round plunked

Velocity at 55 degrees for 5 rounds averaged 1650fps. Pretty smoking for a 9mm. The internet data I dug up had a different style of bullet but same weight and same amount and type of powder going 1480 fps. No signs of pressure on the primers.

I shot some other random loads he had made years ago (I think they were 147gr XTP) and they definitely had flat primers and projected a fireball at 1440fps.

What do you guys think? Dial it back a bit for my load? Why the dramatic difference in velocity?

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cavegeo

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Long time ago I had a AMT Automag III but it was chambered for 30 Carbine.

The flash was something to see. I believe the flash was due to the powder still burning.

So if he used a rifle powder that might explain the velocity and flash difference where Accurate #9 is more intended for pistol use.
 

gew98

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Long time ago I had a AMT Automag III but it was chambered for 30 Carbine.

The flash was something to see. I believe the flash was due to the powder still burning.

So if he used a rifle powder that might explain the velocity and flash difference where Accurate #9 is more intended for pistol use.
25+ years ago a buddy had a pair of those AMT 30 carbine blasters. We called them shazam....... the flame they spewed was awesome. Firing both from the hip at the same time would have everybody at the range , or the sandpit stop and stare. I eventually got one , so did my dad. Igave my dad's to a brother when dad passed and traded mine to a buddy 11 years ago. Wish I had kept it. Man it was ccurate , but hard on brass. But the damn muzz blast...wooo weee !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
 

Story

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"An M1 carbine shooting 9mm magnum sounds spicy!"

The M-1 is rated to 38-40,000psi, and the starting 9mm Mag loads are in the 30,000-33,000 psi range, so it should be fine at the low end, even with the thinner chamber walls. That's why the loads will be on the low end. I'm out to have fun, easy shooting loads, not max power loads.
Just to be a Devil's advocate, why not 7.62x25 Tok? 36,259 psi & 35.20 mm (1.386 in), viz .30 Carbine [ 1.680 in (42.7 mm) ]?

Use that 9mm bolt & a .30 barrel rechambered.

ETA - someone already did it.
 

kotengu

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If there are no pressure signs you're good to go. There could be several reasons for his old load pressure signs with lower velocity - from the powder used to the heavier bullet.

I'd be awfully tempted to keep adding powder in small increments until you start to see pressure signs and then back down a notch or two - just to know where your limits really are. And most loads have the best accuracy with compressed powder if you can get there safely.

Of course, if you're risking someone else's gun you may want to play it safer.
 

kotengu

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Or do you mean why was your velocity higher than the internet said it would be? Probably because it's the internet, and 90% of the things there are BS. ;-)

Just as likely they were using a shorter barrel, and your longer barrel allowed much better velocities.
 

Eeben

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Or do you mean why was your velocity higher than the internet said it would be? Probably because it's the internet, and 90% of the things there are BS. ;-)

Just as likely they were using a shorter barrel, and your longer barrel allowed much better velocities.
The guy was using the same gun, same powder, same bullet weight but different type. If it was 50-100 fps difference I wouldn't bat an eye but 170fps difference had me worried.
 

kotengu

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The guy was using the same gun, same powder, same bullet weight but different type. If it was 50-100 fps difference I wouldn't bat an eye but 170fps difference had me worried.
Wow. In that case it's definitely strange. But if you're seeing no pressure signs I still think you're fine. One of you likely has an innaccurate chronograph, or he fat-fingered the data maybe? Wildly different ambient temp maybe?
 
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Eeben

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Well I settled on 13.7gr of Accurate 9. Got me to around the SAMI listed velocity of 1550fps.

Tore the Automag down to clean it. Looks like it was pretty neglected. Basically comes apart like a 1911, very difficult to move bushing though. Another interesting thing is this little spring and pin that goes in the rear of the guide rod. Anyone know what it does?
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Eeben

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Final 9mm Magnum load data:

Hornady 115gr FMJ-RN (.355)
Accurate No. 9 (13.7 gr)
Federal Small Magnum Pistol Match (GM200M)
Starline Brass
OAL 1.51~
.378 crimp
1564 fps at 80°
 
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