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10mm vs Kodiak bear

Black Blade

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Interesting article at Ammoland too:

Handguns in Defense Against Bears by Caliber | .45 ACP

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Snippet:
Here are all the cases which have been documented where .45 acp handguns were fired in defense against bears. These cases do not include incidents where handguns were use with other lethal means, or a mix of handgun calibers were used. If more than one handgun of the same caliber was used, the incident is included. There are 9 incidents with a .45 acp caliber handgun was fired in defense against bears (6 black, 3 brown). The incidents are listed chronologically.

We have found 9 cases where .45 acp pistols were used to defend against bears. 6 against black bears, 3 against brown bears. All were successful.
 

Trypcil

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Me thinks 10/15 rounds of 10mm is likely better, with an easier reload, than any revolver, for the average person, in bear country! There's Bears all around me, I carry a 9mm and a dog - thats like having an alarm system, with its own built in machete - and a side arm. Tho', if I was to hike up the holler, I take the old VZ58 with a folding stock, and a pistol! But the Bears here are like locals really, keep yer garbage secure, and they only go to the corn up the hill! Gotta feed the spirits!
 

raubvogel

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This one lists events by per caliber
This one links to the news articles
 
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TerryN

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I would still infinitely prefer a rifle chambered for a stout cartridge, with a .30-06 being the absolute minimum, were I to invade the bear's habitat. Difficult to fish while holding a rifle, so a good handgun is also a requirement. A 10mm would certainly work, but a large-caliber revolter with which I am quite familiar would have to suffice at the moment - since I don't currently own a 10mm auto pistol. Or, I could carry my G32 .357 Sig; 13 rounds of 147 grain bullets just might make Mr. Bear change his mind. I believe that a couple of guides have killed grizzly bears with 9mm auto pistols - not that I would recommend it.
 

STG_58_guy

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My Ruger EC9s in 9mm is plenty if it's just me. I went camping in grizzly country with my kids and carried a GP100 in .357. The thinking was that I can hit at 50 yards and hit bear and not kid at 10 yards. This was 20 years ago. If I did that today I'd still go with the GP100 but I'd add a can of spray, hoping I wouldn't have to kill the bear. I don't remember those big cans being available 20 years ago.

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In a lot of cases, I bet bear spray would be a better defense against humans than bears. In most cases where a person or persons assault another person, the former aren't going to kill the latter. A robbery and a bad beating are the most probable outcomes. The problem is, you never know. Once you are knocked down and hit a few times you are at the mercy of your attacker. You can't take the chance. If you have a pistol you have to stop the assault with deadly force. I bet a good dose of bear spray will stop most such assaults, and you don't have to kill anyone. I suspect the legal consequences are also significantly different. Do you have to report if you are forced to spray someone? Are you required to render aid?
 
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Impala_Guy

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A guys draws a tag for bear and goes into the woods of Alaska to bring home his first trophy kill. Within an hour of waiting, a huge black bear saunters into the clearing and starts sniffing around his campsite. He raises his 30-06 up, sights the bear in and blam! When the muzzle blast clears, the bear is nowhere to be seen. Suddenly he feels a tap on his shoulder and turns around. Standing there is the bear with his paws on his waist and a pissed off look on his face. “Hey asshole," says the bear "you just tried to shoot me, and I’ve got a mate and three cubs at home. Now I’m a nice guy so I’ll give you two choices. I can either kill you right now, or you can get on your knees and suck my dick ”. Realizing he has no choice, the hunter drops to his knees and services the bear.

Angry and humiliated, the hunter rushes back to town, runs into the first gun store he finds and demands to see something more powerful. The clerk hands him a .300 Win Mag and a box of heavyweight ammo and assures him that it will be more than enough for black bear. The next morning, he races back to his blind and waits in ambush. Sure enough, around 10am the bear waddles into the clearing sniffing around, the hunter raises up his gun and boom! But again, when the smoke clears, the bear is gone. Then he feels a tap on his shoulder, and there’s the bear again, standing behind him. “OK shitbird,” says the bear. “Now I’m gonna bend you over that log yonder and teach you a real lesson. Now get over there and drop them britches” Once again, the hunter realizes he has no choice and lets the bear have his way with him.

In severe pain and enraged, the hunter limps back into town, where he thoroughly admonishes the clerk at the LGS for his predicament. The clerk hands him a 460 Weatherby and assures him that it will take down any walking animal on the planet. So the next morning the hunter waits in the bushes again, and again the bear shows up to rummage through the campsite. The hunter raises his gun and Ka-BOOM! he gets knocked over from the force of the recoil. When he comes to his senses, theres the bear, standing over him with his paws on his knees and a huge grin on his face. “Admit it, bub,” says the bear. “You don’t really come out here for the hunting, do you?”
 
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tac-40

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Not sure if it matters with this group, but that bear in the story had already been shot twice with centerfire rifles. Once by the hunter and then once by his guide. And the hunter even said he went in the woods to put down the wounded bear. All this raises a bunch of questions with no answers. First off, where was his rifle?

A raging bear crashing out of the brush in a surprise attack is something quite different than you cautiously going into the brush hunting for a wounded bear.
 
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hagar

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I was happy to have a 10mm Glock walking next to a river in South Africa full of aggressive hippos. One of them killed a woman walking a dog just a week before. Thankfully none of them bothered me, and it was better than carrying a stick.

The 10 is no slouch, showed tremendous penetration in testing I did against broken washers and dryers people dumped in the AZ desert. The 45 on the other hand was pathetic.
 

lew

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I was happy to have a 10mm Glock walking next to a river in South Africa full of aggressive hippos. One of them killed a woman walking a dog just a week before. Thankfully none of them bothered me, and it was better than carrying a stick.

The 10 is no slouch, showed tremendous penetration in testing I did against broken washers and dryers people dumped in the AZ desert. The 45 on the other hand was pathetic.
10mm is basically .357 with 15+ of its buddies waiting their turn in the pipe in a handgun that is easier to shoot than a revolver. Add light and red dot sight to get yer kicks as one sees fit.

.45 AARP is good on humans and that's about it. :D 🖕

(Totally not off to hem and haw over a 1911 purchase).
 

droid

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"10mm is basically .357 with 15+ of its buddies waiting their turn in the pipe in a handgun that is easier to shoot than a revolver."

Not the way I load my 10mm. Quite a bit more juice than .357, and I don't scrimp on the powder with those, either. I get close to 750ft/lbs at the muzzle of a 5" barrel using 180gr hollow points.

Interesting story about .44 magnum and black bears. After WWII, my maternal grandfather and his brothers all went black bear hunting every year in Aroostook County up in Maine (my grandfather lived in Washburn, if you're curious). Toward the late '60s, everyone was using a 30-06 rifle (usually some variant of a Remington autoloader) and everyone carried a .44 magnum revolver as a sidearm. One year they went out and about an hour into the hunt, everyone heard 6 shots fired rapidly and then silence. When my grandfather and his other brothers came upon the one who was wounded, they found him under a sizeable, and very dead, black bear. When they rolled the bear off of him, they noticed the top of his scalp was gone, but they found it rather quickly in the white snow. Since everyone was a combat vet, they had him pretty well bandaged up and then whisked off to drive the 70 miles to nearest civilization. They found the doctor and he told them they had done a pretty good job of patching him up, so he just shot him up with some antibiotics and told them to bring him back in two weeks. My uncle told us all the story that he had found some tracks and was following them when he heard a twig snap behind him. Well, there was the bear and it slapped the rifle out of his hands and the next swipe was at his head. I believe even Bill Hickok would have been envious of his speed when he drew and dropped that bear. In the '70s, I went black bear hunting with them ONCE, and I was convinced they were all crazy. Black bear are MUCH smarter than people give them credit for.

Anyway, there's my two copper washed zinc pennies worth. Take from it what you will.
 

VHart51

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"10mm is basically .357 with 15+ of its buddies waiting their turn in the pipe in a handgun that is easier to shoot than a revolver."

Not the way I load my 10mm. Quite a bit more juice than .357, and I don't scrimp on the powder with those, either. I get close to 750ft/lbs at the muzzle of a 5" barrel using 180gr hollow points.

Interesting story about .44 magnum and black bears. After WWII, my maternal grandfather and his brothers all went black bear hunting every year in Aroostook County up in Maine (my grandfather lived in Washburn, if you're curious). Toward the late '60s, everyone was using a 30-06 rifle (usually some variant of a Remington autoloader) and everyone carried a .44 magnum revolver as a sidearm. One year they went out and about an hour into the hunt, everyone heard 6 shots fired rapidly and then silence. When my grandfather and his other brothers came upon the one who was wounded, they found him under a sizeable, and very dead, black bear. When they rolled the bear off of him, they noticed the top of his scalp was gone, but they found it rather quickly in the white snow. Since everyone was a combat vet, they had him pretty well bandaged up and then whisked off to drive the 70 miles to nearest civilization. They found the doctor and he told them they had done a pretty good job of patching him up, so he just shot him up with some antibiotics and told them to bring him back in two weeks. My uncle told us all the story that he had found some tracks and was following them when he heard a twig snap behind him. Well, there was the bear and it slapped the rifle out of his hands and the next swipe was at his head. I believe even Bill Hickok would have been envious of his speed when he drew and dropped that bear. In the '70s, I went black bear hunting with them ONCE, and I was convinced they were all crazy. Black bear are MUCH smarter than people give them credit for.

Anyway, there's my two copper washed zinc pennies worth. Take from it what you will.
OT: I've read (I do a lot of reading) that Black bears kill & eat more humans than the other bear species. True?
 

MAINER

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Maine supposedly has a Black Bear population of 30 to 36 thousand. They are sort of like living with
a grumpy neighbor, especially in the Spring. Don't bother them, they likely won't bother you.

Don't leave trash around, take in the Birdfeeder in the spring, and don't leave Dog food out..

I've lived and worked in the woods and traveled most of the logging roads in northern Maine, Aroostook County. I wouldn't shoot
a Bear unless he was in the Chicken Coop or trying to snack on "Ole Dumbass, the dog.
They don't taste very good and I have better things to do than dig a big enough hole to bury the carcass
as required by state game laws.

The State does reap a bunch of cash from Bear hunting each year. I don't have a problem with that, it keeps my taxes
down and I would likely have to share my lunch with the black buggers if there was more of them.
 

the gman

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My Ruger EC9s in 9mm is plenty if it's just me. I went camping in grizzly country with my kids and carried a GP100 in .357. The thinking was that I can hit at 50 yards and hit bear and not kid at 10 yards. This was 20 years ago. If I did that today I'd still go with the GP100 but I'd add a can of spray, hoping I wouldn't have to kill the bear. I don't remember those big cans being available 20 years ago.

View attachment 425978 In a lot of cases, I bet bear spray would be a better defense against humans than bears. In most cases where a person or persons assault another person, the former aren't going to kill the latter. A robbery and a bad beating are the most probable outcomes. The problem is, you never know. Once you are knocked down and hit a few times you are at the mercy of your attacker. You can't take the chance. If you have a pistol you have to stop the assault with deadly force. I bet a good dose of bear spray will stop most such assaults, and you don't have to kill anyone. I suspect the legal consequences are also significantly different. Do you have to report if you are forced to spray someone? Are you required to render aid?
I can only speak to NM but technically, when you touch someone in a rude, angry or insolent manner, you have committed the crime of battery. That crime may be justifiable as a result of your legitimate use of self defense because you were being assaulted (placed in fear of receiving an immediate battery from another) but it is ALWAYS advisable to call 911 immediately after the instigation of any kind of force against another. No duty to render aid, other than calling 911 for the cops and medics. Will look good if you tossed them a bottle of water to rinse their eyes but no duty to do so.

A couple years before I was a cop, my stupid ass got into a mini road rage with a clown and he approached me after we parked. I happened to have a Beretta in the door pocket and pulled it out, holding it pointing down at the ground, never raising it. He didn't back off immediately and was unfazed I had a gun, typical Napoleon complex short arse guy. Long story short, I called 911 to report the incident, a report was taken, witnesses interviewed and all good. I looked that report up after I was a cop and found out short arse had called a couple hours later to accuse me of assault with a deadly weapon, claiming I had pointed the gun at him, waved it in his face etc. All was disproven by my initial report.

Usually, the first to report is the one who gets to dictate the narrative so, yes, call first, call immediately and be reasonable, not taunting or sarcastic to the individual, you never know who is recording. Also be aware there are some people out there that pepper spray doesn't affect at all. Weird because I'd rather be tased every day of my life than ever be pepper sprayed again.... :cool:
 

droid

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VHart51... I don't know if they eat more, but I have heard from many woodsmen and a forest ranger I was in high school with that there are more black bear attacks. Do I know for sure that this is true? No, I don't. Like I said, I went bear hunting exactly ONCE and have done my absolute best to avoid them at all cost from that day on.

The following chart seemed apropos for this thread:


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lew

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"10mm is basically .357 with 15+ of its buddies waiting their turn in the pipe in a handgun that is easier to shoot than a revolver."

Not the way I load my 10mm. Quite a bit more juice than .357, and I don't scrimp on the powder with those, either. I get close to 750ft/lbs at the muzzle of a 5" barrel using 180gr hollow points.
That's the versatility of the cartridge. I like 135 gr. hollowpoints going really fast, but I have some hot 220 gr. loads around just in case.
 

John A

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The loads I've been making are very much like 357 magnum. True enough. But the 10mm is providing more fps and energy. I've been using 155 gr pills for 10mm and 158 gr for 357, despite everyone recommending 180 and 200 and 220 gr.

My reasoning is the distances that I would be using it, aren't long range where a lighter bullet would lose as much momentum. Truth is, I'd be using it inside of 40 yards. And more likely less than 25.

I've always been a fan of heavy bullets, but in this case, I'm getting 250 more fps and more than 120 more ft lbs of energy with the 155 versus the 180 gr. So, I'm going with what the gun does the best with. It's hard to argue with a 155 gr bullet traveling 1770 fps average.

Though, I've been shooting them in a 16" carbine. I think they would be well on black bear (no griz or brown bears here).

I still like shotgun buckshot and slugs though.
 

aron82

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For hiking in bear country I most often carry my g20 in 10mm or my 629-3 in 44mag.
Your best bet is to make some noise while hiking so the bears know you're there and can stay away. The most dangerous place is between a sow and her cubs. If you find yourself there. Get as far away as fast as you can.
Wouldn't be surprised that there are more black bear attacks than grizzly. There are way way more black bears than grizzly and the black bears are generally in more contact with people.
Never went bear hunting. The meat isn't overly edible, if they've been eating garbage it will tast like garbage. That's about the only reason I would shoot one is if they're into trash and livestock. Where I grew up in Montana you had to keep your trash cans secured.

A fed bear is a dead bear.
If I was going into bear country and was willing to lug more than a pistol around, i would probably take my marlin 45-70. Either that or a 450 bushmaster, 458 socom, or if I wanted lighter and handier my marlin 44mag (seen one bring down a cow elk with an average shoulder shot). 308, 30-06, 338, ect, ect. Are all perfectly capable as well.
 

John A

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The most dangerous place is between a sow and her cubs. If you find yourself there. Get as far away as fast as you can.
While I don't disagree, it has been studied and documented male bears are responsible for fatal attacks. So while it is good advice to not get around cubs, the point is, to never assume that a lone bear or a male bear will just run away either. It's well proven that black bears in general, have lost their natural fear of humans because they are so protected.


Beware of predatory male American black bears: Attack rates are rising with human population growth

Date: May 11, 2011
Source: University of Calgary
Summary: A new study of fatal black bear attacks in North America shows that predatory male bears are responsible for most historical attacks.
 
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