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What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:45 am
by TacticalMallNinja
Also as I assume these rifles still roam around the African continent mismashed together from various rifles to keep them running that the dents don’t mean much outside of “heavily used”.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:03 am
by Hebrew Battle Rifles
The dings referenced result from the hammer spring being pried out of it's place and allowing the spring guide tube to impact the recoil plate.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:54 am
by deeno360
smashing skulls

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:24 pm
by grahamneall
What a good question, Iv'e wondered that myself.....makes perfect sense now !!

However, I would have thought the recoil plate was hardened enough not to allow something like that happening ?
I know when I remove a Hammer Spring Assembly, I always cover it with my hand to prevent it flying out...and that doesn't hurt.
Hard Spring Assy, softer recoil plate ??
Graham.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:10 pm
by the chief
grahamneall wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:24 pm
... However, I would have thought the recoil plate was hardened enough not to allow something like that happening?
Iirc, the rear portion of the trigger housing is annealed, to avoid cracking due to carrier impact. If it was hardened, repeated carrier impact could actually damage that solid block, as well as the stamped steel wrapped around it. Thus, it stands to reason that the part being referred to as the 'recoil plate' be a bit softer steel, to absorb said impact... sort of like the spine of a differentially tempered katana blade.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:21 pm
by grahamneall
Makes sense Art.
The annealing process is performed after the hardening process, to eliminate the brittleness caused by the hardening.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:22 pm
by hkshooter
Some lowers have what must be hundreds of impact dings, I hardly imagine it's the hammer spring tube causing it. What would be the reason to remove the hammer spring so many times?
I had always assumed the dings were caused by the rat tail being out of place when the rifle was snapped shut.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:28 pm
by meltblown
hkshooter wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:22 pm
Some lowers have what must be hundreds of impact dings, I hardly imagine it's the hammer spring tube causing it. What would be the reason to remove the hammer spring so many times?
I had always assumed the dings were caused by the rat tail being out of place when the rifle was snapped shut.
yep. The hammer spring will do it, but I doubt that they have been in and out that much, as well.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:35 pm
by grahamneall
The Rat Tail was what I thought caused it, but it seems that would f*ck up the Rat Tail (bend it) ?
I dunno ??
G.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:48 pm
by meltblown
grahamneall wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:35 pm
The Rat Tail was what I thought caused it, but it seems that would f*ck up the Rat Tail (bend it) ?
I dunno ??
G.
That rat tail is harder than woodpecker lips. Ever tried to bend the carry handle? It's similar.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:59 pm
by grahamneall
meltblown wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:48 pm
grahamneall wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:35 pm
The Rat Tail was what I thought caused it, but it seems that would f*ck up the Rat Tail (bend it) ?
I dunno ??
G.
That rat tail is harder than woodpecker lips. Ever tried to bend the carry handle? It's similar.
Yes as a matter of fact.
I have an Argy which I couldn't get the Gas nut through the Ring...Tried pliers, vice grips and finally had to put it in the vice to straighten it up.
TIP: Don't straighten it up to a perfect 90 degrees or you will end up like mine, a Carry handle which kinda flops around.
Keeping it off-centered is what make the Carry Handle stiffer to move.
Sneaky bastards !!

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:31 pm
by trypcil
Never heard a believable explanation to this - one would think the rat tail but how? Does it bend and if it hits the rear plate how does it get back into the recoil tube? If it's the hammer spring assembly why do some plates have so many and others few? Why does my much fired once nos lower not have any - does it only happen to lowers fired in full auto - odd really and still no viable, definitive answer!

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:05 pm
by hkshooter
I can see a foreign object being introduced and hammered by the full auto bolt carrier. But the dings are way too consistent with their placement for chaos theory. That's part of why I think rat tail. How it happens I cannot explain. And honestly I have more important things to burn brain power on.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:47 pm
by quicksilver1+
I have a s.African kit I purchased back in 2005 and it has a bent rat tail on it and multiple debts on the recoil plate. I need to finish it one of these days but now all the R1 uppers are gone.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:20 am
by KYSJCK
This argument is easily settled by examining inch pattern lowers. Even my most well worn Aussie and Brit lowers have no dings in the recoil plate. All my metrics also now use inch captive hammer springs so they avoid dings and are easier to disassemble with no tools except a slave pin to maintain trigger sear alignment.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:05 am
by meltblown
KYSJCK wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:20 am
This argument is easily settled by examining inch pattern lowers. Even my most well worn Aussie and Brit lowers have no dings in the recoil plate. All my metrics also now use inch captive hammer springs so they avoid dings and are easier to disassemble with no tools except a slave pin to maintain trigger sear alignment.
I just put a towel over mine. No damn way I'm mixing L1 parts. Nevuh :D

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:23 am
by Arby
We've had the subject of the dents come up on the Files plenty of times over the years. I think the best argument made has been that it is a result of prying out the recoil spring tube by the housing and letting it hit the recoil plate. If the dents are more to the left side of the recoil plate (as you are looking at it from the front), then that would make sense. The recoil spring tube is anchored slightly to the left (again, if you are looking front-to-rear) and prying out the spring housing from the right ("selector")side of the trigger housing would cause the pointed rear end of the housing to hit the recoil plate on the left side (presuming the view is front-to-back).

The Chief made a good point about the lack of hardness on the recoil plates.

KYSJCK made a very interesting point about the Commonwealth captive springs. There is no way that they can impact the recoil plate the way the metric trigger spring group can.

I do have a Brit that has a lot of impact marks on it that don't appear to produced by either trigger spring units or a rat tail.

Image

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:28 am
by Briar
I always assumed it's like floating the valves in a car engine.
The lifter cant follow the cam due to weak valve springs (or too weak for the cam profile, rpm etc)

For whatever reason sometimes the recoil spring plunger isn't keeping up with the rat tail on recoil.
Weak spring, corrosion, wear, rate of fire... or a combination of factors.

but dunno for sure... it just seemed to make sense.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:48 pm
by Southern 762
So with the rat tail suggestion, has anyone seen the recoil plate dings on a para FAL? If so, that should eliminate the rat tail being culprit. Eh?

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:24 pm
by KYSJCK
The PARA is an interesting subject for this discussion. The 50.63 and SAR 48 PARA I owned/own are new or lightly used, so there are no dings. Someone may have well used specimen, that would be revealing. Arby's photo shows a more thrashed inch lower than any of mine, and that's saying something. The dents in that plate are deep and adjacent to the recoil spring plunger. They appear to be from a rat tail that may be bent. I've got 7 or 8 that are well used and have no dings. All my military used metric lowers have dings that cover more area. Not to mention they are much lighter. Meltblown may not like mixing inch and metric parts but I do it often. That includes mag releases, bolts, bolt carriers, folding charging handles, and the superior captive hammer spring. FN stopped developing the rifle long before the rifle steering committee did.

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:34 pm
by Invictus77
KYSJCK wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:24 pm
FN stopped developing the rifle long before the rifle steering committee did.
The elegance of the L1A1 is certainly undeniable :D

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:41 am
by trypcil
What I can see happening is that the rat tail after a while, as the locating pin gets sloppy - so when after cleaning the lower gets slammed and the rat tail being improperly aligned gets smacked onto the plate. Normally the rat tail is some 1/4"+ longer that the rails allow under full engagement, so it sits in the recoil tube. I would be amazed if it, due to normal functioning, that it smacks into the plate and then mysteriously relocates back into the tube and the rifle functions normally. If it's the trigger plunger - well I bet that each ding is a lost plunger tube!

Re: What causes dings on a FAL recoil plate?

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:34 am
by grahamneall
Gotta put a trap in there and catch the Rat....he's probably chewing on the soft recoil plate !!
G.