FAL max effective range

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MightBeABot
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FAL max effective range

Post by MightBeABot »

Thinking about trying some mid to long range shooting with my Izzy when I get it built, assuming a decent build with no horrid problems affecting accuracy. In researching the FAL's effective range, I have seen some sources suggesting it's as low as 500 yards while others push that up to 800 for the StG 58. I know Steyr barrels are good, but do they really make *that* big a difference? Are these sources BS?

And yeah, I realize the FAL is a battle rifle, so I'm talking about the ability to hit a man-sized target. I would also be using a TBD optic mounted on a railed dust cover.

Invictus77
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by Invictus77 »

My most accurate FAL is an Imbel/Imbel built specifically to be a race-gun.

Out at the OR shoot a couple years ago I was hitting a standard steel silhouette 3 out of 4 times (or maybe 4 out of 5 times?) at 400 yards as part of a "fastest time" challenge. This was shooting prone.

Down at the North TX shoot a couple years ago they had a 500 yard steel gong made of 1/2 of an old oxygen cylinder hanging over a post, so roughly 9" x 24"or so. Standing, but leaning across a bench, I hit it once out of a 20 round mag.

Minute of Man out to 500 or 600 yards with a decent shooter, certainly.
Clover leafs at 100 yards or hitting anything consistently at 800, not so much.
It is not a target rifle.

I am certainly not the world's best shot, but I am far from the worst either. Obviously none of this is hard "data", but maybe some reference points for you on what a good FAL and a decent shooter can do. YMMV
Last edited by Invictus77 on Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hebrew Battle Rifles
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by Hebrew Battle Rifles »

There are no such things as enough time, money, or ammo.

270Handiman
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by 270Handiman »

At Fal Fest '08 at the Whittington Center we had a 600 and 1000 yard competition....with open sights.

gunplumber
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by gunplumber »

Max effective range in US doctrine is the distance at which one can expect to hit a target 50% of the time. I was able to hit a dishwasher at 800 with an StG and Hendsoldt 4x, with regularity. And a small fire extinguisher at 460 with a para set on 250 and a little hold over. But realistically, anything past 300 is going to fall heavy on the shooter. Even identifying a "real" target at 400 can be challenging. It's not like an enemy is going to be standing still with a white background to assist in aiming.

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MightBeABot
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by MightBeABot »

gunplumber wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:49 pm
But realistically, anything past 300 is going to fall heavy on the shooter. Even identifying a "real" target at 400 can be challenging. It's not like an enemy is going to be standing still with a white background to assist in aiming.
Understood, I'm just trying to assess the mechanical limitations of the weapon considering the wide range of numbers I'm seeing. Whatever the case, I recognize that a lot of it boils down to my own skill level and practice. However, I don't want to set unrealistic goals because of a lack of basic data.

Invictus77
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by Invictus77 »

When the real forum re-opens you can read a ton of info on this topic, literally dozens of loooonnnnggg threads.

For now, keep in mind that an FAL that can consistently shoot 3 MOA or under is an exception and not the rule.

meltblown
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by meltblown »

It's minute of asshole as a friend of mine says. Scoped decent you can probably hit a silhouette at 500. I've shot a cylinder like Invictus is speaking of out at 400 probably 7 out of 10 once I found the holdover on an StG. 500 is like a different world all together. I missed the exact cylinder he was describing at 500 completely out of 40 rounds on a Belgian StG I had just built. Never could get the holdovers due to no dust kicking up. But didn't really have it sighted in very well.

Invictus77
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by Invictus77 »

meltblown wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:04 pm
I missed the exact cylinder he was describing at 500 completely out of 40 rounds on a Belgian StG I had just built.
Yup, you were there to witness my 1 hit in 20 shots, as was Txmoose, ExCan, James, and others. James and TXmoose were both here at my place last month for the KY shoot and reminded me of that day. Here is the rest of the story for those who don't know.

500 yard gong as described above. A table about 4 foot high with a sand bag. Just a side event, but everyone had to try it of course.

I walked up for my turn. Rested myself on the table. Guesstimated the holdover and windage. Fired one shot. Bang......CLANG !!!!

If I had a brain, I would have put the safety on and walked away saying "that is how ya do it boys", but no. I then fired the other 19 rounds out of the mag and never touched it again.

(insert facepalm here)

:evil:

gunplumber
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by gunplumber »

Invictus77 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:32 pm
meltblown wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:04 pm
CLANG[/b] !!!! . . I then fired the other 19 rounds out of the mag and never touched it again.
Yeah, did that shooting a can out of the air with my SAA.

jaxxas
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by jaxxas »

It's been awhile, but my last outing at the 500 meter range, my scoped STG from the prone position on a nice calm day was banging the 500 meter gong about half the time. To the best of my knowledge that gong is about 18-24" in diameter.... from past results I know a lot depends on the wind at 500 meters.

ymmv

Jeff in Pa
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by Jeff in Pa »

Extremely unscientific results but, when I started shooting NRA High Power Matches, I used my "neutered" L1A1 and I was able to score decently. All shooting was done at 200 yards with scaled targets for the simulated 300 and 600 yards portions.

Familiarity with the weapon will make the most difference. ( or "the nut behind the bolt makes or breaks it" )

Jeff

1911Ron
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by 1911Ron »

The Fals Max effective range is the distance at which you can reliably hit something.
To slow to run,but I can still shoot pretty good.
Fal convert!

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MightBeABot
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by MightBeABot »

1911Ron wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:58 am
The Fals Max effective range is the distance at which you can reliably hit something.
Right, so the key is identifying how far that distance is for a reasonably competent shooter.

1911Ron
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by 1911Ron »

MightBeABot wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:56 am
1911Ron wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:58 am
The Fals Max effective range is the distance at which you can reliably hit something.
Right, so the key is identifying how far that distance is for a reasonably competent shooter.
500yds
To slow to run,but I can still shoot pretty good.
Fal convert!

ExCan
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by ExCan »

Invictus77 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:32 pm
meltblown wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:04 pm
I missed the exact cylinder he was describing at 500 completely out of 40 rounds on a Belgian StG I had just built.
Yup, you were there to witness my 1 hit in 20 shots, as was Txmoose, ExCan, James, and others. James and TXmoose were both here at my place last month for the KY shoot and reminded me of that day. Here is the rest of the story for those who don't know.

500 yard gong as described above. A table about 4 foot high with a sand bag. Just a side event, but everyone had to try it of course.

I walked up for my turn. Rested myself on the table. Guesstimated the holdover and windage. Fired one shot. Bang......CLANG !!!!

If I had a brain, I would have put the safety on and walked away saying "that is how ya do it boys", but no. I then fired the other 19 rounds out of the mag and never touched it again.

(insert facepalm here)

:evil:
It’s a humbling experience, isn’t it? None of us were really “on our game”that day, although we weren’t wasted from heat or anything, but I’m remembering what I did as a 22 year old trooper with Canadian sights, no old man shakes, and perfect eyes.
I’m disappointed I can’t do that anymore, although I don’t shoot anywhere near as much as I did then when Big Brother was paying the bill.

My eyes are nothing what they used to be, I actually have a tough time picking up a target at 400 yards now. Plus, I absolutely refuse to scope my FALs. I’d die first.
Yesterday I bought a Savage 110 precision elite that’s getting some glass on it now, and with that I expect it’ll get back to being what I remember. That’ll be my long distance poker for the time being. The C1 will go back to doing what it does best: hitting a man sized target at 400 yds
A refugee from FalFiles.

snowhawk jockey
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by snowhawk jockey »

A tragic FAL confession is that 3moa is really hard to hold, even with a 2moa barrel. The trigger is not friendly enough to the shooter, so even if the shooter can hold moa with a 10/22 at 100yds in a wind, hitting 20" at 500 with FAL irons 50% is an accomplisment.

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MightBeABot
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by MightBeABot »

snowhawk jockey wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:10 pm
A tragic FAL confession is that 3moa is really hard to hold, even with a 2moa barrel. The trigger is not friendly enough to the shooter, so even if the shooter can hold moa with a 10/22 at 100yds in a wind, hitting 20" at 500 with FAL irons 50% is an accomplisment.
Yeah, I anticipate the milspec trigger problem. Keep in mind that I am talking about with a scope though.

1911Ron
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by 1911Ron »

MightBeABot wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:50 pm
snowhawk jockey wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:10 pm
A tragic FAL confession is that 3moa is really hard to hold, even with a 2moa barrel. The trigger is not friendly enough to the shooter, so even if the shooter can hold moa with a 10/22 at 100yds in a wind, hitting 20" at 500 with FAL irons 50% is an accomplisment.
Yeah, I anticipate the milspec trigger problem. Keep in mind that I am talking about with a scope though.
A scope won't make you more accurate it will however show you how far off you are.
To slow to run,but I can still shoot pretty good.
Fal convert!

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MightBeABot
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by MightBeABot »

1911Ron wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:35 pm
MightBeABot wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:50 pm
Yeah, I anticipate the milspec trigger problem. Keep in mind that I am talking about with a scope though.
A scope won't make you more accurate it will however show you how far off you are.
A scope will allow me to see the target at 500 yards lol

jaxxas
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by jaxxas »

1911Ron wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:35 pm
MightBeABot wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:50 pm
snowhawk jockey wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:10 pm
A tragic FAL confession is that 3moa is really hard to hold, even with a 2moa barrel. The trigger is not friendly enough to the shooter, so even if the shooter can hold moa with a 10/22 at 100yds in a wind, hitting 20" at 500 with FAL irons 50% is an accomplisment.
Yeah, I anticipate the milspec trigger problem. Keep in mind that I am talking about with a scope though.
A scope won't make you more accurate it will however show you how far off you are.
??? That's why real world snipers use only open sights! :roll:

1911Ron
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by 1911Ron »

jaxxas wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:54 am
1911Ron wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:35 pm
MightBeABot wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:50 pm


Yeah, I anticipate the milspec trigger problem. Keep in mind that I am talking about with a scope though.
A scope won't make you more accurate it will however show you how far off you are.
??? That's why real world snipers use only open sights! :roll:
If you are a crappy shot a scope won't make you better.
To slow to run,but I can still shoot pretty good.
Fal convert!

TacticalMallNinja
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by TacticalMallNinja »

1911Ron wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:51 am
jaxxas wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:54 am
1911Ron wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:35 pm


A scope won't make you more accurate it will however show you how far off you are.
??? That's why real world snipers use only open sights! :roll:
If you are a crappy shot a scope won't make you better.
No, but irons are also only so effective. I can shoot a dime at 100 yards with a scope, whereas with irons I could probably hit a coffee mug. But there’s a reason the FAL didn’t come with a reliable way to mount a scope, nor did the G3, or even the m14. You don’t need a whole lot of precision past “somewhere in the torso” when shooting a full powered rifle cartridge in a military combat situation. Much rather have the enhanced accuracy with an intermediate round where placement means a lot more.

Plus, these rifles really shined inside 300 yards where you could go from semi to full and at that point, if you’re able to keep 5-7 MOA who cares, whoever’s on the receiving end isn’t waking away.

jaxxas
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by jaxxas »

1911Ron wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:51 am
jaxxas wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:54 am
1911Ron wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:35 pm


A scope won't make you more accurate it will however show you how far off you are.
??? That's why real world snipers use only open sights! :roll:
If you are a crappy shot a scope won't make you better.
I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere that is based in reality, but the fact remains for us older guys whose eyes have difficulty focally adjusting between the rear and front sights along with the target at the same time the results can be amazing when using a scope. I like to think I know how to shoot but I'm much more accurate using a scope.

Can we say that if you are a good shot then a scope will make you better?? :roll: lol

ymmv

TacticalMallNinja
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Re: FAL max effective range

Post by TacticalMallNinja »

jaxxas wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:00 am
1911Ron wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:51 am
jaxxas wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:54 am


??? That's why real world snipers use only open sights! :roll:
If you are a crappy shot a scope won't make you better.
I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere that is based in reality, but the fact remains for us older guys whose eyes have difficulty focally adjusting between the rear and front sights along with the target at the same time the results can be amazing when using a scope. I like to think I know how to shoot but I'm much more accurate using a scope.

Can we say that if you are a good shot then a scope will make you better?? :roll: lol

ymmv
I think if you’re a good shot with irons, a scope will make you more accurate simply because you’ll be able to hold your point of aim more accurately.

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