Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

One forum to rule them all.. sort of.
cavalryman
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by cavalryman »

If a shotty works in Africa for the guides,

Against non-mythical beasts assssss dangerous as ANY bear, the big 5, that's what I'm using.

You pistol guys... Ha! Good luck if the pressures on... I don't care HOW big the hole in the end is, or isn't... But I get it if you think it's a "challenge", LOL! It's better than nothing. Nothing like carrying a pistol to a long gun/shotty fight against a fast, dextrous, silent, incredibly strong brute and always potentially dangerous adversary...

This is why I don't live in bear country.... Don't have to worry about these questions... But funny and interesting posts.

On a side but similar note... YEARS ago when I started on the FAL files, yes, before the AK files, there was a guy/member whom was attacked by a griz on an island in Alaska while he was hunting. Fascinating story and eye opening.. If someone could post that thread from, geez, '01 or '02, would be good food for thought here...

panzertruppe

Browning Hi Power
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:06 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Browning Hi Power »

TheGreek! wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:10 pm
Browning Hi Power wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:31 pm
Sierra Nevada Marine wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:25 pm



GO for it macho dude, I aint a spring chicken anymore and need to hedge my bets in any way possible, say what ever you want.
I will indeed be going for it. So far, untold thousands hike in Alaska and other grizzly territory and how many are getting killed left and right? The majority of them aren’t even gun guys and just carry bear spray. Untold millions hike and live in black bear territory, many with zero weapons, how many are being killed? Let’s tone down the drama, this isn’t Jurassic Park or the middle of Africa.
If you want to go up against a bear with a can of bear spray and a .22 that's your call to make. Me, if I'm gonna be hiking in bear country I'm carrying my .500 magnun cannon. You can try to justify using a pea shooter against a bear all you want, you can site all the examples of people getting lucky with a pea shooter against a bear all you want but it's not going to convince me to put away the 500 and carry a can of bear spray and a 9mm instead, nope, not gonna happen if I'm gonna be hiking in bear country.
Everyone carries what they’re comfortable with, carry what you’re comfortable with. I wasn’t trying to convince anyone, more thinking out loud with some credible evidence. Could be two methods that achieve the same goal, could be I’m wrong. I get it. But IMO, the topic of bear ferocity and strength is dramatized. NOT that there aren’t instances of bears displaying all of that ferocity and strength, just as their are people who have soaked up multiple rounds of even .45 or .357, just that, to me, it doesn’t appear to be nearly as common as people think.

When you look up fatal bear attacks, the common factor is very often no gun. When there is a gun involved, the attack is usually thwarted, whether through the bear dying immediately, or breaking off the attack. It’s worth a read if you’re bored. It’s a list of all recorded fatal bear attacks in North America:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... th_America

Story
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:17 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Story »

Let's see some more of what people who actually have to go out where all those BLACK BEARS live carry.
In a well-documented attack in 1977, Cynthia Dusel-Bacon, a geologist working with the USGS was mauled by a predatory black bear. (Bear researchers classify most bear attacks as either predatory or defensive.) Cynthia lost both arms as a result of the attack but recovered and continued her career with USGS. This incident led Steve Nelson, a coworker, to develop and begin teaching a firearm-based class on bear awareness and defense. He has taught hundreds of students including many from government agencies and private corporations, as well as average citizens who want to be better prepared to deal with members of the Ursus family. Nelson has had occasion to deal with four bears (two black bears and two grizzlies) in DLP situations (shooting a bear in Defense of Life and Property). The class I attended was near Wasilla, Alaska, and here is some insight into what I learned.

Shotguns in Bear Country
More than any other firearm, a pump-action shotgun loaded with slugs is what Alaskans carry to hedge their bets with bears.
https://www.petersenshunting.com/editor ... nse/272018

https://www.realtree.com/guns-and-camo/ ... -bad-bears
A .300-Magnum rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun with rifled slugs are appropriate weapons if
you have to shoot a bear. Heavy handguns such as a .44-Magnum may be inadequate in
emergency situations, especially in untrained hands
BEAR FACTS
The Essentials for Traveling in Bear Country
from the Fed's Fish & Wildlife Service
https://www.fws.gov/uploadedFiles/Regio ... rfacts.pdf

BLACK BEAR range, Alaska
https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?a ... r.rangemap
Image

1biggun
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:57 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by 1biggun »

Funny I recently spent a few weeks in Wasilla Alaska.
Fishing neat every day or of in buggies in the woods and river bottoms.

Most the local salmon fisherman I saw were carrying a pistol if they were armed at all. Most appeared to be 44 mag revolvers and I saw some auto,s.
Nobody was carrying a rifle or a shot gun.

Saw a few rifles in boats and in off road rigs mostly bolt actions and most were 30-06 or 308.
Brother in law has 45-70 levet action in his river boat .

I dont think I saw a shot gun in a rack the entire time I was up there.
I was with people that so nothing but hunt ,fish and offroad, cold mine, etc .
People that are out in the wilderness for weeks at a time.
My nephews wife shot here big Grizzrly with a bow when she was 6 months Pregnant.

The float plane pilot had a 44 mav but mentioned he owned a 460 S&W.
Most people living in alasks I saw if they were not expressely hunting were not lugging some heavy ass rifle around most were using there hands for other stuff.

More people are liked by Moose than bears in Alaska I was told.

We stopped to look off a small bridge to see if there was Salmon in the creek and there was Grizzly the size of a VW damn near right under us.
Yes I was a little nervous.
I have his picture some were.
Thing was a monster compared to the black bears I had seen hunted in Northern CA and else were .
Like twice as big .

Browning Hi Power
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:06 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Browning Hi Power »

Story wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:30 pm
Let's see some more of what people who actually have to go out where all those BLACK BEARS live carry.
In a well-documented attack in 1977, Cynthia Dusel-Bacon, a geologist working with the USGS was mauled by a predatory black bear. (Bear researchers classify most bear attacks as either predatory or defensive.) Cynthia lost both arms as a result of the attack but recovered and continued her career with USGS. This incident led Steve Nelson, a coworker, to develop and begin teaching a firearm-based class on bear awareness and defense. He has taught hundreds of students including many from government agencies and private corporations, as well as average citizens who want to be better prepared to deal with members of the Ursus family. Nelson has had occasion to deal with four bears (two black bears and two grizzlies) in DLP situations (shooting a bear in Defense of Life and Property). The class I attended was near Wasilla, Alaska, and here is some insight into what I learned.

Shotguns in Bear Country
More than any other firearm, a pump-action shotgun loaded with slugs is what Alaskans carry to hedge their bets with bears.
https://www.petersenshunting.com/editor ... nse/272018

https://www.realtree.com/guns-and-camo/ ... -bad-bears
A .300-Magnum rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun with rifled slugs are appropriate weapons if
you have to shoot a bear. Heavy handguns such as a .44-Magnum may be inadequate in
emergency situations, especially in untrained hands
BEAR FACTS
The Essentials for Traveling in Bear Country
from the Fed's Fish & Wildlife Service
https://www.fws.gov/uploadedFiles/Regio ... rfacts.pdf

BLACK BEAR range, Alaska
https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?a ... r.rangemap
Image
Are those links information articles or advertisements? So a Remington DM Magpul is what I need... Ohhh okay. Quality gun, I’m sure. I’d love to bet my life on a modern Remington. The Magpul furniture must give it extra bear defense. Or a Ruger Crimp Jump .454 Alaskan? So that when my life is on the line, the cylinder can stop rotating leaving me with nothing at all. Maybe the third gun being advertised (CZ Safari) is the best?

Browning Hi Power
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:06 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Browning Hi Power »

1biggun wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:10 pm
Funny I recently spent a few weeks in Wasilla Alaska.
Fishing neat every day or of in buggies in the woods and river bottoms.

Most the local salmon fisherman I saw were carrying a pistol if they were armed at all. Most appeared to be 44 mag revolvers and I saw some auto,s.
Nobody was carrying a rifle or a shot gun.

Saw a few rifles in boats and in off road rigs mostly bolt actions and most were 30-06 or 308.
Brother in law has 45-70 levet action in his river boat .

I dont think I saw a shot gun in a rack the entire time I was up there.
I was with people that so nothing but hunt ,fish and offroad, cold mine, etc .
People that are out in the wilderness for weeks at a time.
My nephews wife shot here big Grizzrly with a bow when she was 6 months Pregnant.

The float plane pilot had a 44 mav but mentioned he owned a 460 S&W.
Most people living in alasks I saw if they were not expressely hunting were not lugging some heavy ass rifle around most were using there hands for other stuff.

More people are liked by Moose than bears in Alaska I was told.

We stopped to look off a small bridge to see if there was Salmon in the creek and there was Grizzly the size of a VW damn near right under us.
Yes I was a little nervous.
I have his picture some were.
Thing was a monster compared to the black bears I had seen hunted in Northern CA and else were .
Like twice as big .
Wait, so Alaskans are not walking around with rifles, shotguns, and huge revolvers whenever they are outdoors? Color me shocked.

AKMStoy
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:53 am

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by AKMStoy »

One things for sure when it's a wild animal it's worse odds than vegas trying to win the bet the used to being the king of the forest is going to run away after you hurt or piss him off trying to scare him. Whatever you chose like always your use of the weapon is what makes the difference not just having it. One swat from a bear with claws not a happy ending.
Cry havoc let slip the dogs of war

User avatar
madmanmccoy
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:50 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by madmanmccoy »

i'd be interested to see just how many bear gun "experts" posting here have even seen one bear in the woods ,up close , for more than 10 seconds or have observed any Bear behavior ..................anyone doubting thier strength & speed has never really watched them any length of time................just my .02

Browning Hi Power
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:06 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Browning Hi Power »

madmanmccoy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:03 pm
i'd be interested to see just how many bear gun "experts" posting here have even seen one bear in the woods ,up close , for more than 10 seconds or have observed any Bear behavior ..................anyone doubting thier strength & speed has never really watched them any length of time................just my .02
If you’re referring to me, I never claimed to be an expert, I always said carry what you’re comfortable with, and I never gave others advice.

I did, however, refer to articles of actual bear encounters using guns and used it to show a narrative different than the gun forum idea of, “you’re going to die if you don’t have an elephant gun with you.”

What I wonder is how many claiming or recommending to carry huge guns actually hike for miles in and actually frequent the outdoors? It would be obvious that hiking with a long gun is ridiculous and doesn’t work, and it would be obvious that hiking with a huge revolver would become cumbersome after a while.

It’s amazing that when you see Alaskans hiking or enjoying the outdoors, they’re generally not carrying huge guns. I wonder why?

hdskumm
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:09 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by hdskumm »

forget the woods, you're not even safe in your house anymore, I'm waiting on my couch with a Barrett 50 cal :lol:

"A bear broke through a glass pane to gain entry into Trujillo's house and killed her. Trujillo's body was found in her kitchen. The bear was shot 0.5 miles (0.80 km) from the house."

"The bear entered her cabin and Staver and her husband fled to the roof. While Staver's husband went for help, the bear killed her. The bear was shot and killed by a neighbor."

"Gaier and a black bear were found dead at a remote mountain cabin. An investigator concluded that Gaier shot the bear after it entered his cabin, and before dying, the bear fatally clawed Gaier."

"Gregorchuk was minding her four-year-old brother, Bill Gregorchuk, while their parents were out working the farm. A large (420 pound) black bear chased Olga and her brother into their family's farm house where it knocked the door in, attacked Olga, dragged her out and ate her. By the time her body was found, it had been consumed with the exception of her head. A small gravestone in Red Deer Cemetery, Manitoba, describes the death."

Bear smashing door in
https://youtu.be/2uy8i1nM3aE

User avatar
madmanmccoy
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:50 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by madmanmccoy »

Browning Hi Power wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:32 pm
madmanmccoy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:03 pm
i'd be interested to see just how many bear gun "experts" posting here have even seen one bear in the woods ,up close , for more than 10 seconds or have observed any Bear behavior ..................anyone doubting thier strength & speed has never really watched them any length of time................just my .02
If you’re referring to me, I never claimed to be an expert, I always said carry what you’re comfortable with, and I never gave others advice.

I did, however, refer to articles of actual bear encounters using guns and used it to show a narrative different than the gun forum idea of, “you’re going to die if you don’t have an elephant gun with you.”

What I wonder is how many claiming or recommending to carry huge guns actually hike for miles in and actually frequent the outdoors? It would be obvious that hiking with a long gun is ridiculous and doesn’t work, and it would be obvious that hiking with a huge revolver would become cumbersome after a while.

It’s amazing that when you see Alaskans hiking or enjoying the outdoors, they’re generally not carrying huge guns. I wonder why?
I'm talking to ALL the "experts" in this thread because it's sounding like one of those BIGFOOT or "mine's bigger than yours" threads, and ALOT of BS from guys who've never even seen a Bear , much less run into any.......................and since you ask, if you doubt thier strength, which they routinely exhibit in just thier everyday meanderings & search for food...............well..........

User avatar
madmanmccoy
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:50 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by madmanmccoy »

Damn.....I just gave away 4 or 5 really good well written current books about Bears & Bear attacks to my Buddy's Kid.........
The damage they can do inside of a minute , HELL 30 seconds .......just horrifying ,some of those attacks .....everything from surprize attacks at bad breath range to full on"You asked for this& I'm gonna give it to you " from 50 yards on the run til they connect&results in severe mauling ,including Tim Treadwell & GF.......

User avatar
TheGreek!
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 am

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by TheGreek! »

----------
Last edited by TheGreek! on Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
Happiness, is a road, lined with wooden crosses with liberals nailed to them

Browning Hi Power
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:06 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Browning Hi Power »

madmanmccoy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:56 pm
Browning Hi Power wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:32 pm
madmanmccoy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:03 pm
i'd be interested to see just how many bear gun "experts" posting here have even seen one bear in the woods ,up close , for more than 10 seconds or have observed any Bear behavior ..................anyone doubting thier strength & speed has never really watched them any length of time................just my .02
If you’re referring to me, I never claimed to be an expert, I always said carry what you’re comfortable with, and I never gave others advice.

I did, however, refer to articles of actual bear encounters using guns and used it to show a narrative different than the gun forum idea of, “you’re going to die if you don’t have an elephant gun with you.”

What I wonder is how many claiming or recommending to carry huge guns actually hike for miles in and actually frequent the outdoors? It would be obvious that hiking with a long gun is ridiculous and doesn’t work, and it would be obvious that hiking with a huge revolver would become cumbersome after a while.

It’s amazing that when you see Alaskans hiking or enjoying the outdoors, they’re generally not carrying huge guns. I wonder why?
I'm talking to ALL the "experts" in this thread because it's sounding like one of those BIGFOOT or "mine's bigger than yours" threads, and ALOT of BS from guys who've never even seen a Bear , much less run into any.......................and since you ask, if you doubt thier strength, which they routinely exhibit in just thier everyday meanderings & search for food...............well..........

Gotcha, I apologize. I don’t doubt their strength at all. Never seen one in person, but have seen a grizzly in a zoo that was leaning close to the glass wall. It’s an enormous animal. I don’t doubt the strength and size of black bears either...

User avatar
TheGreek!
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 am

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by TheGreek! »

Browning Hi Power wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:23 pm

Are those links information articles or advertisements? So a Remington DM Magpul is what I need... Ohhh okay. Quality gun, I’m sure. I’d love to bet my life on a modern Remington. The Magpul furniture must give it extra bear defense. Or a Ruger Crimp Jump .454 Alaskan? So that when my life is on the line, the cylinder can stop rotating leaving me with nothing at all. Maybe the third gun being advertised (CZ Safari) is the best?
It's apparent that you think that every big caliber revolver is going to have crimp jump every time it fires. I have the biggest caliber revolver and I've NEVER had crimp jump. Oh and just so you know I did a little research on it and did you know that even a reasonably small caliber revolver like a .357 magnum can have crimp jump? It seems to be more of an issue with revolvers with very light frames and high-powered rounds. The S&W 500 magnum is definitely not a light frame gun, not by a long shot. Not to mention the fact that the rounds for that gun are crimped very well to prevent crimp jump. I've put a lot of rounds through my 500 and I've never experienced crimp jump with it. If you "roll your own" bullets for it you might experience it if you don't crimp them good but you're more than likely never going to experience it if you use a good commercially-produced round like the rounds from Hornady for example. The good ammo makers are very aware of what crimp jump is and they take extra steps to prevent it which is probably why I've never had a crimp jump problem with my 500. You're going to have to come up with something better than crimp jump to knock people that use big caliber revolvers because it really is a very weak argument....
Last edited by TheGreek! on Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Happiness, is a road, lined with wooden crosses with liberals nailed to them

User avatar
madmanmccoy
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:50 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by madmanmccoy »

Browning Hi Power wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:28 am
madmanmccoy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:56 pm
Browning Hi Power wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:32 pm


If you’re referring to me, I never claimed to be an expert, I always said carry what you’re comfortable with, and I never gave others advice.

I did, however, refer to articles of actual bear encounters using guns and used it to show a narrative different than the gun forum idea of, “you’re going to die if you don’t have an elephant gun with you.”

What I wonder is how many claiming or recommending to carry huge guns actually hike for miles in and actually frequent the outdoors? It would be obvious that hiking with a long gun is ridiculous and doesn’t work, and it would be obvious that hiking with a huge revolver would become cumbersome after a while.

It’s amazing that when you see Alaskans hiking or enjoying the outdoors, they’re generally not carrying huge guns. I wonder why?
I'm talking to ALL the "experts" in this thread because it's sounding like one of those BIGFOOT or "mine's bigger than yours" threads, and ALOT of BS from guys who've never even seen a Bear , much less run into any.......................and since you ask, if you doubt thier strength, which they routinely exhibit in just thier everyday meanderings & search for food...............well..........

Gotcha, I apologize. I don’t doubt their strength at all. Never seen one in person, but have seen a grizzly in a zoo that was leaning close to the glass wall. It’s an enormous animal. I don’t doubt the strength and size of black bears either...
Don't apologize,please....we're all in this together , just trying to show those animals aren't to be taken lightly ,i've had some close up ,too close,encounters, seen my share [that didn't see me] had chances to watch them for long periods ,
The thing that rattles you besides the speed & strength is the look in thier eyes , it's unnerving, you just know you don't want to have anything to do with them & thankful that, despite what they are more than capable of they are pretty peaceable ,considering.
That look in the eye , not sinister or evil or anything like that it's hard to describe, you know there's vast intelligence,instinct ,maybe it's the disregard ,fearlessness , it' is scary because you know what they can do
Last edited by madmanmccoy on Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Browning Hi Power
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:06 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Browning Hi Power »

TheGreek! wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:35 am
Browning Hi Power wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:23 pm

Are those links information articles or advertisements? So a Remington DM Magpul is what I need... Ohhh okay. Quality gun, I’m sure. I’d love to bet my life on a modern Remington. The Magpul furniture must give it extra bear defense. Or a Ruger Crimp Jump .454 Alaskan? So that when my life is on the line, the cylinder can stop rotating leaving me with nothing at all. Maybe the third gun being advertised (CZ Safari) is the best?
It's apparent that you think that every big caliber revolver is going to have crimp jump every time it fires. I have the biggest caliber revolver and I've NEVER had crimp jump. Oh and just so you know I did a little research on it and did you know that even a reasonably small caliber revolver like a .357 magnum can have crimp jump? It seems to be more of an issue with revolvers with very light frames and high-powered rounds. The S&W 500 magnum is definitely not a light frame gun, not by a long shot. Not to mention the fact that the rounds for that gun are crimped very well to prevent crimp jump. I've put a lot of rounds through my 500 and I've never experienced crimp jump with it. If you "roll your own" bullets for it you might experience it if you don't crimp them good but you're more than likely never going to experience it if you use a good commercially-produced round like the rounds from Hornady for example. You're going to have to come up with something better than crimp jump to knock people that use big caliber revolvers because it really is a very weak argument....
Didn't mean to imply it was all big caliber revolvers, but the Ruger Alaskan .454, YES, that one has that reputation. The .454 has a well known recoil that is downright unmanageable in a revolver the size of the Alaskan.

User avatar
TheGreek!
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 am

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by TheGreek! »

Browning Hi Power wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:43 am
TheGreek! wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:35 am
Browning Hi Power wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:23 pm

Are those links information articles or advertisements? So a Remington DM Magpul is what I need... Ohhh okay. Quality gun, I’m sure. I’d love to bet my life on a modern Remington. The Magpul furniture must give it extra bear defense. Or a Ruger Crimp Jump .454 Alaskan? So that when my life is on the line, the cylinder can stop rotating leaving me with nothing at all. Maybe the third gun being advertised (CZ Safari) is the best?
It's apparent that you think that every big caliber revolver is going to have crimp jump every time it fires. I have the biggest caliber revolver and I've NEVER had crimp jump. Oh and just so you know I did a little research on it and did you know that even a reasonably small caliber revolver like a .357 magnum can have crimp jump? It seems to be more of an issue with revolvers with very light frames and high-powered rounds. The S&W 500 magnum is definitely not a light frame gun, not by a long shot. Not to mention the fact that the rounds for that gun are crimped very well to prevent crimp jump. I've put a lot of rounds through my 500 and I've never experienced crimp jump with it. If you "roll your own" bullets for it you might experience it if you don't crimp them good but you're more than likely never going to experience it if you use a good commercially-produced round like the rounds from Hornady for example. You're going to have to come up with something better than crimp jump to knock people that use big caliber revolvers because it really is a very weak argument....
Didn't mean to imply it was all big caliber revolvers, but the Ruger Alaskan .454, YES, that one has that reputation. The .454 has a well known recoil that is downright unmanageable in a revolver the size of the Alaskan.
I'm not familiar with that gun so I'll just have to take you on your word for it. Like I said in my other post, when I researched crimp jump it seems to be more of an issue with light framed revolvers with high powered rounds. I use good name brand ammo in my S&W 500 (Hornady usually) and I've never had crimp jump with it. It's definitely not a light framed gun so I'm sure that helps too. You can be sure that the reputable ammo makers know very well what crimp jump is and that they take extra steps to prevent it in their high power rounds (bigger and deeper crimps, etc) because they know their reputations are at stake if they were to make rounds that suck. Anyway, I'm not going to knock anyone's choice of what they want to carry in bear country because any gun is better than none at all. All I'm doing is telling people which one of my guns I would carry in bear country and giving my reasons why, that's all.
Last edited by TheGreek! on Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Happiness, is a road, lined with wooden crosses with liberals nailed to them

User avatar
madmanmccoy
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:50 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by madmanmccoy »

Think that "crimp jump" is HEAVY bullet light gun ,high recoil VELOCITY , the big bullets inertia causing that .?????

User avatar
TheGreek!
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 am

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by TheGreek! »

madmanmccoy wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:59 am
Think that "crimp jump" is HEAVY bullet light gun ,high recoil VELOCITY , the big bullets inertia causing that .?????
Basically it comes down to basic physics. A big heavy bullet will want to stay where it's at when everything else starts moving backwards. If it isn't crimped to the case very well the case can pull away from the bullet some during recoil which will make the length of the round longer because the bullet is now sticking out of the case more than it was before. This will cause the cylinder of the revolver to jam up and not rotate. Just to be clear, this happens to the rounds in the cylinder that aren't being fired, it's an effect caused by the recoil from the round that is being fired.
Happiness, is a road, lined with wooden crosses with liberals nailed to them

Browning Hi Power
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:06 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Browning Hi Power »

TheGreek! wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:58 am
Browning Hi Power wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:43 am
TheGreek! wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:35 am


It's apparent that you think that every big caliber revolver is going to have crimp jump every time it fires. I have the biggest caliber revolver and I've NEVER had crimp jump. Oh and just so you know I did a little research on it and did you know that even a reasonably small caliber revolver like a .357 magnum can have crimp jump? It seems to be more of an issue with revolvers with very light frames and high-powered rounds. The S&W 500 magnum is definitely not a light frame gun, not by a long shot. Not to mention the fact that the rounds for that gun are crimped very well to prevent crimp jump. I've put a lot of rounds through my 500 and I've never experienced crimp jump with it. If you "roll your own" bullets for it you might experience it if you don't crimp them good but you're more than likely never going to experience it if you use a good commercially-produced round like the rounds from Hornady for example. You're going to have to come up with something better than crimp jump to knock people that use big caliber revolvers because it really is a very weak argument....
Didn't mean to imply it was all big caliber revolvers, but the Ruger Alaskan .454, YES, that one has that reputation. The .454 has a well known recoil that is downright unmanageable in a revolver the size of the Alaskan.
I'm not familiar with that gun so I'll just have to take you on your word for it. Like I said in my other post, when I researched crimp jump it seems to be more of an issue with light framed revolvers with high powered rounds. I use good name brand ammo in my S&W 500 (Hornady usually) and I've never had crimp jump with it. It's definitely not a light framed gun so I'm sure that helps too. You can be sure that the reputable ammo makers know very well what crimp jump is and that they take extra steps to prevent it in their high power rounds (bigger and deeper crimps, etc) because they know their reputations are at stake if they were to make rounds that suck. Anyway, I'm not going to knock anyone's choice of what they want to carry in bear country because any gun is better than none at all. All I'm doing is telling people which one of my guns I would carry in bear country and giving my reasons why, that's all.
Gotcha, I'm honestly not knocking anyone's choice either, just that carrying such a large revolver can be difficult if you're a backpacker or hiker who needs to shave as much weight as possible because of the long distances walked. Comfort is a very real factor in that scenario. At the end of the day, I've no doubts that all of us here are in a much better position of dealing with such a threat compared to the vast majority of the public, many of whom frequent these places with no firearms at all.

Sierra Nevada Marine
Posts: 240
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:30 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Sierra Nevada Marine »

What did Mr T say I pity the fool.

Anyone who is more concerned with comfort over the ability to protect oneself against a dangerous wild animal is strictly a fool.

That being said I would carry a Ruger Redhawk in 44 magnum minimum, I would also carry a 4570 lever rifle in the truck as backup.

Ymmv

Image
It doesn't matter where it is, just so it isn't where you are!

Nev
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:04 pm

Re: Bear gun, AK-47 or mossy 500

Post by Nev »

Rifle, high caliber pistol in a chest rig, shotgun is the hierarchy I ended up believing based on my experience: my wife's family in a native river village north of the red line on the maps posted (always carried .308 rifle hiking or on the boat); friends/people I encountered living in Anchorage (hiking/biking); my forum research before I decided to go with my .44 RedHawk.

Post Reply