It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

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def90
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It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by def90 »

Here we go!

"SpecOps Doc: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15"

https://havokjournal.com/culture/specop ... suqrm-6kDc

Specz
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by Specz »

It's not good to get shot at all

PRegner
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by PRegner »

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to be shot with either of them.

But Its A Dry Heat
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by But Its A Dry Heat »

Specz wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:47 pm
It's not good to get shot at all
I agree with this. :mrgreen:
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Northwest 80D
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by Northwest 80D »

Like others, I'd prefer not to get shot at all.

That aside, and I could be wrong, but the article sounds like yet another " look at how evil and DEADLY, those ARs really are".......especially knowing the author is from Australia.

In fact, there have been more than one of these type articles published by Left leaning Doctors who use their 'qualifications' to push an anti-gun narrative.

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Glockster1
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by Glockster1 »

I think we've seen this before on the AKFiles
But I'd really like to see this on MythBusters

meltblown
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by meltblown »

Depends on the location. Little finger on a commie gun beats the hell out of a gut shot from a poodle shooter. But the Colt 45 ACP is a different story. It'll blow your arm off. YMMV
Last edited by meltblown on Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

yellowhand
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by yellowhand »

I've treated both 5.56 and 7.62x39 wounds,many times, which is the reason, I carry an AR loaded with 55grain FMJ ammo for any serious concerns or situations.
And yep, best gun shot to ever have, is the one you avoid....

def90
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by def90 »

Northwest 80D wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 am
Like others, I'd prefer not to get shot at all.

That aside, and I could be wrong, but the article sounds like yet another " look at how evil and DEADLY, those ARs really are".......especially knowing the author is from Australia.

In fact, there have been more than one of these type articles published by Left leaning Doctors who use their 'qualifications' to push an anti-gun narrative.
It's from the Havoc Journal, about as pro gun as you can get from a media outlet, a bunch of ex military people. The author is a doctor that was assigned directly to a special ops team who is relating his personal experiences with treating the wounds from both calibers.

Invictus77
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by Invictus77 »

meltblown wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:23 am
the Colt 45 ACP is a different story. It'll blow your arm off. YMMV
Image

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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by meltblown »

^^^Hilarious

But Its A Dry Heat
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by But Its A Dry Heat »

I would think a huge factor would be if it hits bone. If a bullet hits bone it is going to bounce and probably do all kinds of damage as opposed to a threw and threw no matter what caliber. Other factors also being types of ammo SP, HP, JHP, etc. Hitting major organs and blood pumping or carrying vessels also are exceptions obviously.

I remember reading stories about Vietnam and the tumbling effect of our rounds and the damage they caused. But not as much when they were threw and threw.

Someone can die from well placed 22LR as well as a 50BMG.
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hoovdizzle
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by hoovdizzle »

consistent with what i've read on this before. the 7.62x39 will basically poke holes and pass through without deforming/tumbling (unless it hits bone). 5.56 will yaw and fragment/disintegrate more easily dumping more of it's energy into the victim.

Northwest 80D
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by Northwest 80D »

hoovdizzle wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:35 am
consistent with what i've read on this before. the 7.62x39 will basically poke holes and pass through without deforming/tumbling (unless it hits bone). 5.56 will yaw and fragment/disintegrate more easily dumping more of it's energy into the victim.
I've always heard exactly opposite.

Basically the smaller, and faster the round is travelling, the more apt it is to go through and through. Conversely the larger and slower the round the more likely it is to demp it's energy and stop, due to the larger frontal area.

Look to the Civil Way where mangled limbs were common because getting hit by a .50 call plus chunk of lead that dumped all of its energy almost immediately, due to its large cross section, was akin to getting hit with a slow moving 10 lb sledge hammer, as opposed to a high speed hit with a 16 ounce ballpeen.

That said, the host site and Dr credentials aside, the text might state that the fact the AR round hit bone, and the AK round didn't makes a difference. Even so the differences in the pictured wounds speak far more loudly than the words.

To someone trying to create a certain narrative, as the old saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. As a result, most will discount the words for the pictures, never giving another thought to anything else.

That aside, anyone who hunts has seen wounds from small rounds, as well as larger rounds.....and a bone strike with either is nearly always far more deviating than a through and through, or the round simply stopping before it exits. While none of the resulting wounds are ever pretty, there is a valid reason you want a larger caliber round to humanly kill larger game, rather than a small caliber round....

That's common knowledge among hunters, yet this Dr is saying exactly the opposite. That alone makes me question his motives. Add in the pictures, and his location, as I just discussed, and it makes me question him further.

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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by Specz »

hoovdizzle wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:35 am
consistent with what i've read on this before. the 7.62x39 will basically poke holes and pass through without deforming/tumbling (unless it hits bone). 5.56 will yaw and fragment/disintegrate more easily dumping more of it's energy into the victim.
Thats a myth for the production rifle because the original twist rate was too high, we found out in Somalia quite the opposite, would just punch little round holes through the dudes hopped up on khat.

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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by yellowhand »

Specz wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:24 am
hoovdizzle wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:35 am
consistent with what i've read on this before. the 7.62x39 will basically poke holes and pass through without deforming/tumbling (unless it hits bone). 5.56 will yaw and fragment/disintegrate more easily dumping more of it's energy into the victim.
Thats a myth for the production rifle because the original twist rate was too high, we found out in Somalia quite the opposite, would just punch little round holes through the dudes hopped up on khat.
Anyone hopped on anything, kinda hard to take down, that's a given.
My experiences with the 5.56, near all looked like this below.
Angle of entry, distance, a bunch of variables come into play with all gun shot wounds

https://i.imgur.com/cQ06k2q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/U9BPMvZ.jpg
Last edited by nalioth on Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: De-embedded gore

SAIGA
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by SAIGA »

It sucks to get shot period, I can see 5.56 fragging at closer ranges and doing more damage than x39 which will just blow straight through due to the weight and power, unless it hits bone in which case you can kiss that limb bye bye. I prefer and like 5.45 the yaw and tumble effect it has due to the long bullet and air pocket in the round even in commercial loads. As reported in afghanistan in the 80's guys would get hit in one spot and have exit wounds far away from the impact giving it the nickname the poison bullet. This same effect is what made 5.56 out of the original m16A1's very devastating, the 1:12 twist with the 55 gr. pills made the round destabilize very easily when impacting enemies.

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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by Beef Supreme »

SAIGA wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:56 am
It sucks to get shot period, I can see 5.56 fragging at closer ranges and doing more damage than x39 which will just blow straight through due to the weight and power, unless it hits bone in which case you can kiss that limb bye bye. I prefer and like 5.45 the yaw and tumble effect it has due to the long bullet and air pocket in the round even in commercial loads. As reported in afghanistan in the 80's guys would get hit in one spot and have exit wounds far away from the impact giving it the nickname the poison bullet. This same effect is what made 5.56 out of the original m16A1's very devastating, the 1:12 twist with the 55 gr. pills made the round destabilize very easily when impacting enemies.
My understanding as well.

The slower twist rate, longer barrel (higher velocity) is what caused the little 223 round to destabilize and do so much damage.

We now use shorter barrels, higher twist rate, and heavier bullets, which essentially negates the real magic behind the 223 round.

The downside to the original design, however, was that barrier penetration sucked.


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madmanmccoy
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by madmanmccoy »

Kinda depends on who's on that TRIGGER don't it?
If you can SHOOT , you aren't undergunned even with a ..22LR , you'll get the job done..........believe it...

me
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by me »

I've been shot with a 7.62 ak. It sucked, it still sucking. Was exactly 1 month ago today. Still got my leg though. & it mostly works when I tell it too.

Havent had the pleasure of 5.56 though. But after 30 cal, I hope I never do. Once in life is plenty.

Would post a picture, but I got in trouble last time. Didnt do it the right way or something.

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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by MACV »

me wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:39 am
I've been shot with a 7.62 ak. It sucked, it still sucking. Was exactly 1 month ago today. Still got my leg though. & it mostly works when I tell it too.

Havent had the pleasure of 5.56 though. But after 30 cal, I hope I never do. Once in life is plenty.

Would post a picture, but I got in trouble last time. Didnt do it the right way or something.
Try the other leg with a 5.56 so we can do a armchair comparison. Come on take one for the team.

Just kidding hope you heal up.

me
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by me »

MACV wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:44 am
me wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:39 am
I've been shot with a 7.62 ak. It sucked, it still sucking. Was exactly 1 month ago today. Still got my leg though. & it mostly works when I tell it too.

Havent had the pleasure of 5.56 though. But after 30 cal, I hope I never do. Once in life is plenty.

Would post a picture, but I got in trouble last time. Didnt do it the right way or something.
Try the other leg with a 5.56 so we can do a armchair comparison. Come on take one for the team.

Just kidding hope you heal up.
No. No. I wouldn't want to deny anyone else the enjoyment I've had.

Wouldn't wanna be greedy or anything.

:roll:

2barearms
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by 2barearms »

Funny stuff.....I said the very same thing after the shootout in LA with the two Comblock bank robbers using AKs....and a FAL
Interestingly enough the AKs didn’t kill anyone that day but wounded quite a few. The two bad guys both died.....shot with ARs
Iirc....shot in the ankles from underneath a car.....they let both of them bleed out....wouldn’t allow EMS in to help them.

Porcupine
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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by Porcupine »

Specz wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:24 am
hoovdizzle wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:35 am
consistent with what i've read on this before. the 7.62x39 will basically poke holes and pass through without deforming/tumbling (unless it hits bone). 5.56 will yaw and fragment/disintegrate more easily dumping more of it's energy into the victim.
Thats a myth for the production rifle because the original twist rate was too high, we found out in Somalia quite the opposite, would just punch little round holes through the dudes hopped up on khat.
That’s (somewhat) apples and oranges.

By the time of the battle of Mogadishu we’d replaced 55 grain 193 with 62 grain 855.

I suspect even popping skinnies (instead of thicker E Europeans) 193 would have been more effective.

We had similar poor performance of 7.62x51 SLAP rounds in soft targets.

Anyway the entire premise is stupid. FAR too many variables for a blanket statement like that to have any meaning.

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Re: It’s Better to Get Shot with an AK-47 Than an M4/AR-15

Post by Porcupine »

yellowhand wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:34 am
Specz wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:24 am
hoovdizzle wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:35 am
consistent with what i've read on this before. the 7.62x39 will basically poke holes and pass through without deforming/tumbling (unless it hits bone). 5.56 will yaw and fragment/disintegrate more easily dumping more of it's energy into the victim.
Thats a myth for the production rifle because the original twist rate was too high, we found out in Somalia quite the opposite, would just punch little round holes through the dudes hopped up on khat.
Anyone hopped on anything, kinda hard to take down, that's a given.
My experiences with the 5.56, near all looked like this below.
Angle of entry, distance, a bunch of variables come into play with all gun shot wounds

https://i.imgur.com/cQ06k2q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/U9BPMvZ.jpg

Those look like the Phillipino police office that was shot from across the street with M193. 10-20 yards from 20” barrel M16 IIRC. Plenty of velocity to induce fragmentation. The x-rays showed lots of tissue damage and bullet fragments.

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