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Old October 22, 2001, 20:49   #1
ProGun1
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Alice Pack Components?

Pardon my ignorance. I was in Uncle Sam's aero club and we used suitcases to travel and that large laundry bag. What do I need when shopping for an Alice pack? Do they need the frames or are they complete with straps? I've got a belt and a load bearing harness with a lot of small bullshit items to tie and clamp on. Can a pack be mounted on that? Is there a difference between a "Y" or "H" harnesses when it comes to shopping for a pack? I was planning on a Hippo rig plus a small day pack to mount above it like someone mentioned elsewhere. Not one for too much weight or to compromise movement so I don't want too large a rig. Shopping online is great for bargains but make a mistake and the return shipping eats up any savings on the initial purchase. Thanks for the help in advance.
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Old October 22, 2001, 21:03   #2
bdettling
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Hi ProGun, check my reply over in the images section. I have a medium ALICE with a frame that I found not to work very well with a LBE setup- maybe I was doing it wrong!

Good luck with your project. Half the fun is the experimenting. I have collected what seems to be a ridiculous amount of gear over the years- try this, try that, new gun = new pouches, etc. But I'd rather have it to share or trade.
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Old October 22, 2001, 21:10   #3
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ALICE packs and webgear are a little diffrent 1st of all alice frame or unframed packs suck the tend to pull your shoulders back restrict movement and cause numbness at the center of your back below the neck - Still have one carried it extensivly -- hate it the newer stuff that is out now is supposed to be much better or the commercial stuff made by blackhawk or one of the other tactiacl gear suppliers is much better--IMHO the alice pack is also NOISY.
Web gear or LBE (USGI) is based on two patterns centererd around the USGI pistiol belt and suspenders The Y suspenders which gather the two shoulder harness straps into one support strap to the belt downthe center of the back --gives the belt less support and stability --some like it. The H model with two independant shoulder to belt straps from front to back supports both sides of the belt better keeping it from sagging on either side and distributing your combat load better.
The web gear or LBE is for your Combat load ammo pouches, canteen, buttpak, knives the stuff you need to fight,move and survive in combat. The pack is for your heavier gear food,camp equipment,clothes,comfort items.Typiclly worn in a hump in-out situation -- Over the web gear. I have pics if you want.
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Old October 22, 2001, 21:14   #4
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Second what Offctr says....take a look at the Blackhawk gear.

blackhawkindustries.com
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Old October 22, 2001, 21:24   #5
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As for the LBE you'll find if you wear the belt below the back pad on the ruck the setup will ride alot better. Some folks dont like it that low but its a trade:
Web gear alone wears better a little high but if you got a ruck on wearing web gear high, it will just dig into your back.

Blackhawk/Eagle/London Bridge does have better options but it tends to be pricey.
I use alot of it though.
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Old October 22, 2001, 21:41   #6
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Thanks for the opinions and suggestions. If you won't mind Offctr, download the pics in the gallery for us all or just email them to ga_shooter@yahoo.com . I appreciate it. I never gave it much thought to bug out of my homestead since I have a well and supplies but for occassional use, since my nephew will want to go camping one day, and having comfortable equipment will help my old bones by then.
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Old October 22, 2001, 21:48   #7
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Here is the alice pack from behind
and from the side that will distroy your upper spine notice the wear spots on the upper back pad and IF you get one of these get the revised kidney pad w/belt -or if you run it will be like having a midget jockey jumping on your kidneys.
get one of these as well its a waterproof bag /liner for the pack othewise your gear will be soaked the first time you cross a stream or it rains.
This is the web gear from the rear and the front
the Y version has only one down strap in the rear. The web gear is OK you can and should customize and more importantly break it in! when TSHTF is a bad time to find out about a rub spot that makes you miserable or causes a blister/sore on your shoulder of either arm. HTH good luck !
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Old October 22, 2001, 22:46   #8
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If you want mil-issue, you might want to skip the ALICE family rucks and go to the newer and MUCH IMPROVED CFP-90 family packs--prices are finally starting to come down on these.

In studying the design of the ALICE packs vs. the human anatomy, I have concluded that the ALICE was actually intended to attach extra gear to the outside of armored vehicles, not people.
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Old October 23, 2001, 06:21   #9
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I have a large pack and frame I was thinking of getting rid of. Never used, just had it since I bought it at Fort Myer in 91. Let me know if you are interested.
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Old October 23, 2001, 07:19   #10
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Be sure to set your web gear and pack up separate. You put your web gear on first, and then add the pack. If you need to maneuver quickly, just drop the heavy pack and you still have your "necessities" in your web gear.

I put pistol mag pouches, pistol, rifle mag pouches, knife, canteens, and a buttpack on my web gear. The buttpack contains a day's rations, first aid stuff, extra ammo, and other small items. Be sure to put "small" stuff on the front of your belt, and the larger items near the back, behind your side seam on your pants. That way if you need to "get prone" in a hurry, you won't be falling on your rifle mags, canteens, etc. and knocking your breath out, bruising yourself, or damaging your stuff. BTW, this is the main reason I don't like the "assault vests" because they put the load on your chest and if you "get prone in a hurry" with one on, you're landing on all your stuff. OUCH!
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