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Old April 06, 2007, 13:11   #1
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A Question For Democrats

Can someone explain to me the rationale of why on earth a firearms enthusiast / gunowner would choose to be supportive of the democratic party in any way? It is common knowledge they are pushing for socialism but, as a whole, they also favor extreme gun control and probably even total confiscation. How could one be ok with having the likes of Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schummer, Joe Biden, Charles Rangle, and all their other fellow low lifes as the main leaders?

I am not sticking up for 'publicans. It just comes down to the lesser of two evils.
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Old April 06, 2007, 13:18   #2
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There are still plenty of blue dog democrats. OTH, why would freedom lovers and fiscal conservatives embrace the GOP right now?
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Old April 06, 2007, 13:29   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derby FALs
There are still plenty of blue dog democrats. OTH, why would freedom lovers embrace the GOP right now?

Like I said, I'm pretty troubled with the GOP lately and I'm certainly not embracing them. However, just what other "realistic" choices do we have? About the only reason I can come up with to vote GOP is because I consider it a vote against the dems. How could a sane person actually want the dems in power considering their agendas as well as who and what their leadership is made up of?
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Old April 06, 2007, 20:49   #4
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Many times the Dem candidate is going to mirror your values more than the the Republican. Would you vote Rudy Guliani over Zell Miller?
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Old April 06, 2007, 20:54   #5
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Zell is an exception to the general rule: Democrats are gun grabbers. Republicans at least usually leave gun owners alone.

Guliani is a sad excuse for a Republican.

Gun owners would do well to vote for Conservatives. Too bad fewer and fewer Republicans are actually Conservatives.
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Old April 06, 2007, 21:02   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tak
Zell is an exception to the general rule: Democrats are gun grabbers. Republicans at least usually leave gun owners alone.

Guliani is a sad excuse for a Republican.

Gun owners would do well to vote for Conservatives. Too bad fewer and fewer Republicans are actually Conservatives.
All Democrats are not gungrabbers. All Republicans are not pro gun. Voting one issue will leave you feeling like an unpaid whore. Start checking out some of the Blue Dogs.
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Old April 06, 2007, 22:15   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derby FALs


All Democrats are not gungrabbers. All Republicans are not pro gun. Voting one issue will leave you feeling like an unpaid whore. Start checking out some of the Blue Dogs.
The problem with your theory is that the congress is organized along party lines and not along issues.
Therefore, since republicans tend to be more gun-friendly you are more likely to have appropriate committees run by gun-friendly republicans than the typical urban democrat with seniority (like now).
The real battles are in the primaries so the anti-gun republicans get voted out at the primaries rather then in general election where voting for a gun-friendly democrat still results in democratic committee chairmen--which is where the real power lies in congress.
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Old April 06, 2007, 22:56   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by River Pig

The problem with your theory is that the congress is organized along party lines and not along issues.
Therefore, since republicans tend to be more gun-friendly you are more likely to have appropriate committees run by gun-friendly republicans than the typical urban democrat with seniority (like now).
The real battles are in the primaries so the anti-gun republicans get voted out at the primaries rather then in general election where voting for a gun-friendly democrat still results in democratic committee chairmen--which is where the real power lies in congress.
The Blue Dogs are the buffers between the two parties. Primaries are the main reason I stay registered Democrat. Granted our Dems aren't like the big city Dems but they still need weeding. Are still looking at only the gun issue?
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Old April 07, 2007, 00:52   #9
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Re: A Question For Democrats

Quote:
Originally posted by redbug
Can someone explain to me the rationale of why on earth a firearms enthusiast / gunowner would choose to be supportive of the democratic party in any way? It is common knowledge they are pushing for socialism but, as a whole, they also favor extreme gun control and probably even total confiscation. How could one be ok with having the likes of Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schummer, Joe Biden, Charles Rangle, and all their other fellow low lifes as the main leaders?

I am not sticking up for 'publicans. It just comes down to the lesser of two evils.
Pro gun democrats believe that guns should only exist for sporting purposes.

On the other hand, you can find a myriad of so called "republicans" that believe this or that about second amendment.

When I tell people that one of the reasons that the second amendment exists is to create a balance between people and government and some so called republican tells me that I'm going to get the same needle that Timothy McVeigh got, I just about lose it. I'm not Timothy McVeigh and the second amendment was put there as part of the checks and balances...read em and weep, sheep.
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Old April 07, 2007, 08:28   #10
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you'll note the majority of the blue dog democrats are older folks. the democrat party has moved away from them to the left.

please note the observation by someone smarter than I, the democrat party today is really the socialist party of three, four decades ago. the republicans in kind is the dems of three, four decades ago.

were a Jack Kennedy to show up today, in the dem party he'd be told STFU.

and members of the republican party are still trying to figure out why the conservatives are abandoning them.

this thread more appropriately needs to be in the Politics board.

but it is a valid point. however, gunowners occupy a broad spectrum, from one person that has a O/U in a case in the closet to the frothing-at-the-mouth EBR owner. when you look a at it as a bell curve, you can see why the far end would wind up being democrat.
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Old April 07, 2007, 08:45   #11
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If the gun question was the only question that doesn't make sense then I could understand the answers given. However there are alot of socialist views that come from the democritters that I just can't believe people would vote for. To many to list yet people still vote for em, guess that's why the country is going to hell.

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Old April 07, 2007, 09:05   #12
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Look at Guliani, McCain and Romney...


Not exactly TRUE 2nd Amendment supporters either.


Fred Thomson or Ron Paul. GOOD. But I don't know of their chances yet.
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Old April 07, 2007, 10:08   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bawana jim
If the gun question was the only question that doesn't make sense then I could understand the answers given. However there are alot of socialist views that come from the democritters that I just can't believe people would vote for. To many to list yet people still vote for em, guess that's why the country is going to hell.

jim
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Old April 07, 2007, 13:37   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derby FALs
Many times the Dem candidate is going to mirror your values more than the the Republican. Would you vote Rudy Guliani over Zell Miller?

Probably not. Didn't Zell Miller switch to GOP or am I mistaken? Anyway, whether he did or not, I might would vote for him depending on how liberal he is on social issues. Plus, the biggest kicker is how he stands on 2nd amendment because that tells a lot about one's outlook in general. And, I do not care much for Guliani anyway.
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Old April 07, 2007, 13:44   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derby FALs


All Democrats are not gungrabbers. All Republicans are not pro gun. Voting one issue will leave you feeling like an unpaid whore. Start checking out some of the Blue Dogs.
Anti gun republicans are as rare as pro gun democrats.

We all know Zell is a huge exception to the rule, his party left him many years ago.
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Old April 07, 2007, 13:52   #16
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Also, it doesn't really matter if an individual dem is pro 2nd amendment or not. The fact still remains that if you support the Democratic party, you really are supporting socialism in the long run not to mention eventual attempt at firearms confiscation. These are integral to very fabric of democratic party.
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Old April 07, 2007, 14:44   #17
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Originally posted by Derby FALs


The Blue Dogs are the buffers between the two parties. Primaries are the main reason I stay registered Democrat. Granted our Dems aren't like the big city Dems but they still need weeding. Are still looking at only the gun issue?
No, actually guns are low on my list of priorities when I vote. I'm lucky in that my republican representative is pretty good.
But even if he wasn't, I would only fight against him/her in the primaries. The dems got into power using moderate to conservative democrats in fly-over country and people were so pissed they voted them in without thinking about the consequences.
Now look what it's gotten us. Do you see any of the moderate democrats heading up the committees and writting the bills? Those moderate gun-loving democrats still voted for Nancy P for Speaker and guys like Dingle, Waxman, Franks, etc as committee chairs.
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Old April 07, 2007, 17:28   #18
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Simple.
Make a list of activist anti-gun democommies.
Then make a list of activist anti-gun R.I.N.O.s.

Count them up, then check out their voting records in that light.

Finally check out the agenda and voting records of democommie committee chairs, and spokesmen.
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Old April 07, 2007, 19:55   #19
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I am always amazed at how immature gun owners act. If you read what you post then you cannot expect much from Democratic politicians. Salesmanship appears to be name calling and phoney political analysis. If you want to vote for Republicans that is fine and dandy. But if you want to have some influence you have to open your minds. Blindly repeating wingnut diatribes about Democrats limits your option to Republicans only. So be it.

But, when things are as they now are, having influence with a minority is not much influence at all.

Just as was demonstrated a couple of years ago, many Republicans will vote for gun control, they just did not have to expose themselves. Many Democrats had to vote for gun control although they did not want to do so. It was all a matter of where the voters were in their district. If you live in a district represented by a Democrat it is not much use babbling about the Republican Party when it is time for the politicians to vote. So, why not just drop the Republican tripe and use persuasion?

But, you may want to babble about 'democommies,' 'supporting socialism' and 'firearms confiscation' further marginalizing yourself. Your choice, after all it is just politics.
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Old April 07, 2007, 20:08   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by DABTL
I am always amazed at how immature gun owners act. If you read what you post then you cannot expect much from Democratic politicians. Salesmanship appears to be name calling and phoney political analysis. If you want to vote for Republicans that is fine and dandy. But if you want to have some influence you have to open your minds. Blindly repeating wingnut diatribes about Democrats limits your option to Republicans only. So be it.

But, when things are as they now are, having influence with a minority is not much influence at all.

Just as was demonstrated a couple of years ago, many Republicans will vote for gun control, they just did not have to expose themselves. Many Democrats had to vote for gun control although they did not want to do so. It was all a matter of where the voters were in their district. If you live in a district represented by a Democrat it is not much use babbling about the Republican Party when it is time for the politicians to vote. So, why not just drop the Republican tripe and use persuasion?

But, you may want to babble about 'democommies,' 'supporting socialism' and 'firearms confiscation' further marginalizing yourself. Your choice, after all it is just politics.

OOOOHHHHH, now I understand. Your a dem supporter and you think for yourself. Supporters of the repubs just quote party line and don't think for themselves.

It couldn't possibly be that I'm more in line with republican/conservative thinking than democrat/liberal thinking. Oops, sorry for the phony political analysis.

Gee, thanks for setting me straight.

You crack me up, dems vote for gun control because they have too. That's too funny.
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Old April 07, 2007, 20:27   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Low Drag



OOOOHHHHH, now I understand. Your a dem supporter and you think for yourself. Supporters of the repubs just quote party line and don't think for themselves.

It couldn't possibly be that I'm more in line with republican/conservative thinking than democrat/liberal thinking. Oops, sorry for the phony political analysis.

Gee, thanks for setting me straight.

You crack me up, dems vote for gun control because they have too. That's too funny.
Can you please give us examples from the current batch of this "republican/conservative thinking"?
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Old April 07, 2007, 21:38   #22
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Can you please give us examples from the current batch of this "republican/conservative thinking"?
Can you please be specific when you refer to "the current batch"?
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Old April 07, 2007, 22:04   #23
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So, what have the Democrats done for YOU lately?
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Old April 07, 2007, 22:28   #24
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No child left behind, USA PATRIOT Act,etc...
got to love your kind of thinking. The democrats have murdered over 10 million babies and call it abortion yet you vote for them. The repubs want no child left behind in education and you seem to think that is a tradgedy. Guess you got your reasons to want kids killed and you certianly vote for the right party.

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Old April 07, 2007, 22:37   #25
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I do have the feeling lately that I am taken for granted by the Republicans. Sure, they generally claim to be pro-gun, but they do little to change the laws to favor gun owners. No more.
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Old April 08, 2007, 07:54   #26
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OOOOHHHHH, now I understand. Your a dem supporter and you think for yourself. Supporters of the repubs just quote party line and don't think for themselves.

It couldn't possibly be that I'm more in line with republican/conservative thinking than democrat/liberal thinking. Oops, sorry for the phony political analysis.

Gee, thanks for setting me straight.

You crack me up, dems vote for gun control because they have too. That's too funny.
You may be in line with anything you desire to follow. You can tell everyone to vote Republican. Who cares. If there are Republican majorities, that might be a good plan. If you are in the minority, not so good a plan.

It does not take a great deal of intellectual thought to realize that if you have a Democratic Rep. telling him your 'republican/conservative thinking' is going to do little good.

All you need to decide is whether or not you want to be effective or an idiot. Your choice.
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Old April 08, 2007, 08:51   #27
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You may be in line with anything you desire to follow. You can tell everyone to vote Republican. Who cares. If there are Republican majorities, that might be a good plan. If you are in the minority, not so good a plan.

It does not take a great deal of intellectual thought to realize that if you have a Democratic Rep. telling him your 'republican/conservative thinking' is going to do little good.

All you need to decide is whether or not you want to be effective or an idiot. Your choice.
Well that's and obtuse reply if I ever saw one.

But I detect that you think telling your dem rep to vote pro gun is a waste of time?

Quote:
It does not take a great deal of intellectual thought to realize that if you have a Democratic Rep. telling him your 'republican/conservative thinking' is going to do little good.
It seems you're attempting to shift from your original point to our two party system. I could be missing you point......

On the parties.... I have a state senator here in Colorado that is a dem and pro gun. She is rare and I have offered to support her. The problem with doing that is if dems have a majority in the senate and house in Colorado they get to set up all the committees and run the show. Like it or not dems are the party of gun control for the last 40 years or so.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of those old school blue blood republicans that are anti gun. Don't forget, the Reagan conservatives do not run the republican party any more.

I will fear the politician that wants to expand the Patriot Act AND go for more gun control, party be damned.

There, that's a from the hip shotgun version of my position.
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Old April 08, 2007, 09:52   #28
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Well that's and obtuse reply if I ever saw one.

But I detect that you think telling your dem rep to vote pro gun is a waste of time?



It seems you're attempting to shift from your original point to our two party system. I could be missing you point......

On the parties.... I have a state senator here in Colorado that is a dem and pro gun. She is rare and I have offered to support her. The problem with doing that is if dems have a majority in the senate and house in Colorado they get to set up all the committees and run the show. Like it or not dems are the party of gun control for the last 40 years or so.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of those old school blue blood republicans that are anti gun. Don't forget, the Reagan conservatives do not run the republican party any more.

I will fear the politician that wants to expand the Patriot Act AND go for more gun control, party be damned.

There, that's a from the hip shotgun version of my position.
Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?
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Old April 08, 2007, 10:03   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by DABTL


Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?
take your own advice...
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Old April 08, 2007, 10:07   #30
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Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?
Let me make it simple for you Dabs We have no friends in the Democrat camp nor in Osamas camp so it will end in a fight. Will the gun owners win or the gunless democrats? Are they going to get the conservative military to protect them as they try to take away our constitutional rights? Kinda understand why you hate the military now.

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Old April 08, 2007, 10:11   #31
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Originally posted by DABTL


Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?
Why don't you tell me where you sit on the political/idealogical spectrum before you try to tell me where you stand on an issue. Understand?

Now I will address your comments directly, something you don't seem to do. You should try it. I'm beginning to form an opinion on you. Do you work in the education system at any level?

Yes you can persuade or repulse with you words. Only a fool attempts to persuade by being rude and disrespectful. I can make my points to an anti gun democrat without being rude.

I work with a grass roots pro gun group here in Colorado and we cultivate relationships with the few pro gun democrats. BUT, when dems are in charge they get to set the agenda and committees. With a dem majority we can only hope that the few pro gun dems will stand by their principles.

The fact is liberal democrats in America today are socialists. I don't think it's a waste of time to make pro gun points to a liberal dem in the correct forum.

Oh, knock off the comments about trying to keep things simple (Ned in the third grade). You're arrogant and it's getting old, hence my question if you work in the education system. Try being less obtuse and stop thinking you're the smartest guy in room.
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Old April 08, 2007, 10:23   #32
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Old April 08, 2007, 10:39   #33
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got to love your kind of thinking. The democrats have murdered over 10 million babies and call it abortion yet you vote for them. The repubs want no child left behind in education and you seem to think that is a tradgedy. Guess you got your reasons to want kids killed and you certianly vote for the right party.

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You only know how I'm registered. You should have an idea how I vote but it doesn't appear so. My big gripe is abortion and education are federally regulated.
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Old April 08, 2007, 10:39   #34
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Why don't you tell me where you sit on the political/idealogical spectrum before you try to tell me where you stand on an issue. Understand?

Now I will address your comments directly, something you don't seem to do. You should try it. I'm beginning to form an opinion on you. Do you work in the education system at any level?

Yes you can persuade or repulse with you words. Only a fool attempts to persuade by being rude and disrespectful. I can make my points to an anti gun democrat without being rude.

I work with a grass roots pro gun group here in Colorado and we cultivate relationships with the few pro gun democrats. BUT, when dems are in charge they get to set the agenda and committees. With a dem majority we can only hope that the few pro gun dems will stand by their principles.

The fact is liberal democrats in America today are socialists. I don't think it's a waste of time to make pro gun points to a liberal dem in the correct forum.

Oh, knock off the comments about trying to keep things simple (Ned in the third grade). You're arrogant and it's getting old, hence my question if you work in the education system. Try being less obtuse and stop thinking you're the smartest guy in room.
And you wonder why people ignore your opinions? Carry on.
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Old April 08, 2007, 10:46   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by DABTL


And you wonder why people ignore your opinions? Carry on.
Prior to this post my I was attempting to be respectful and polite and not insult like you did. But you don't seem to respond to direct, respectful dialog.

Soooooo, dodge, duck run away.

You're obtuse. Or as Fog Horn Leg Horn would say: "Boy you 'bout as shaaarp as a bowl'in ball.


Like I said, you must work in education. You like to spew your opinion/pontificate/lecture, not have a discussion. Of course I could take the high road and conclude you just don't get it and treat you accordingly.

I'm pretty much done here, I'm sure you'll conclude that's because you're such a good debater. A legend in your own mind.
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Old April 08, 2007, 12:41   #36
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Bill,

So it does no good to come at anti-gun Dem's with an opposing view and a superior attitude, combined with name calling? WTF do you do here in most every post?

What's good advice for the goose is good advice for the geezer, er...."gander".

Practice what you preach.
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Old April 08, 2007, 13:01   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by HughJass
Bill,

So it does no good to come at anti-gun Dem's with an opposing view and a superior attitude, combined with name calling? WTF do you do here in most every post?

What's good advice for the goose is good advice for the geezer, er...."gander".

Practice what you preach.
No name calling, just pointing out that if you are a Republican trying to win friends with Democrats it is best to leave the smart mouth behind.

PS: I am not trying to win friends with Republicans so it does not matter what I do.
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Old April 08, 2007, 13:12   #38
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Originally posted by DABTL


No name calling, just pointing out that if you are a Republican trying to win friends with Democrats it is best to leave the smart mouth behind.

PS: I am not trying to win friends with Republicans so it does not matter what I do.
Well, you're either trying to be persuasive, like those Repub's conversing with the Dem's are advised to do, or you're trolling.


Hmmmmm.
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Old April 08, 2007, 13:13   #39
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You only know how I'm registered. You should have an idea how I vote but it doesn't appear so. My big gripe is abortion and education are federally regulated.
To vote for them is to vote for their platform. Your vote may be confidential but your words tell people how you think.

jim
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Old April 08, 2007, 13:17   #40
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Originally posted by HughJass


Well, you're either trying to be persuasive, like those Repub's conversing with the Dem's are advised to do, or you're trolling.


Hmmmmm.
I merely give out good advice to the nice Republicans. They are free to take it or leave it. Most will leave it because they cannot give up their core wingnut beliefs. For the remainder, it is good advice.

Not hearing what you want to hear does not mean trolling.

But, to each his own.
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Old April 08, 2007, 13:17   #41
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Originally posted by Bawana jim


To vote for them is to vote for their platform. Your vote may be confidential but your words tell people how you think.

jim
Most people know me as a flaming libertarian.
I will vote for whomever espouses those ideals, regardless of party affiliation. Bring on Dr. Ron Paul, baby!
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Old April 08, 2007, 16:05   #42
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holy cow! bill is in here! who would've ever guessed!
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Old April 08, 2007, 16:50   #43
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Originally posted by DABTL


I merely give out good advice to the nice Republicans. They are free to take it or leave it. Most will leave it because they cannot give up their core wingnut beliefs. For the remainder, it is good advice.

Not hearing what you want to hear does not mean trolling.

But, to each his own.
This coming from the guy who used to use Yellow Dog Democrat as part of his nickname.
That's funny.
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Old April 08, 2007, 16:54   #44
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Originally posted by River Pig

This coming from the guy who used to use Yellow Dog Democrat as part of his nickname.
That's funny.
If you hired a consultant to advise you on how to approach Democrats you would hire one of the Bush twins? Probably, you would.

But, if you want to have any influence with the coming majority, pay attention.

No one wants to hear wingnut diatribes. Repeat as often as necessary.

I could care less how much you want to be marginalized. Big deal.

But for those who want to participate, listen up.
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Old April 08, 2007, 17:19   #45
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Originally posted by DABTL


If you hired a consultant to advise you on how to approach Democrats you would hire one of the Bush twins? Probably, you would.

But, if you want to have any influence with the coming majority, pay attention.

No one wants to hear wingnut diatribes. Repeat as often as necessary.

I could care less how much you want to be marginalized. Big deal.

But for those who want to participate, listen up.
Yawner dude.
You're tilting at windmills again.
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Old April 08, 2007, 17:22   #46
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Originally posted by River Pig

Yawner dude.
You're tilting at windmills again.
I agree. Who cares anymore what Republicans think? Not me. But, I did not before. Enjoy.
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Old April 08, 2007, 17:28   #47
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Originally posted by DABTL


I agree. Who cares anymore what Republicans think? Not me. But, I did not before. Enjoy.
So we are to care what democrats think when they are in the majority, but you never cared what republicans thought when they were in the majority?
Confusing the troll is so much fun. I sure do enjoy it.
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Old April 08, 2007, 17:32   #48
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Originally posted by River Pig

So we are to care what democrats think when they are in the majority, but you never cared what republicans thought when they were in the majority?
Confusing the troll is so much fun. I sure do enjoy it.
No confusion. Get over being a loser. Life is tough at times. You want to participate? Win an election. That is the Bush way now.
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Old April 08, 2007, 17:39   #49
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I could never figure out which party I despise more, I guess I just hate politicians.
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Old April 08, 2007, 18:29   #50
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I'm giggling as the more the Dems show their colors, the more it can be assured that Bill will be squealing AND be on the "losing side" for at least another 4 years. How bittersweet the irony - the Dems get in control of the Congress for two years just to cement the '08 election for the Republicans.

Who has an ice-cube's chance in hell of winning the Dem nomination that can win the Presidency? Errrr, lesseee, that would be, um, er, nobody.

McCain and Giuliani are the Dem's best candidates and I doubt either can get the Repub's nomination.

The Dem's have worse candidates to offer. Thompson or Romney seem to be the guys if the electorate can get over Romney's religion. If not, Thompson may be it?

Interesting, but not as much as Bill trying to not get pinned down, but in doing so, paint's his ass into a corner.
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