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Old April 09, 2020, 17:55   #1
K. Funk
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2 Firsts for me Today......

For as many guns as I have owned, I have never had a Winchester Model 12 nor have a ever had or fired a 16 Ga shotgun. That all changed today. I picked up a half decent Winny Model 12 16 Ga with a solid rib made in 1925. The case of 16 Ga 2-1/2" shells showed up today, so I let a few rip in the back yard. Oh what a feeling!!

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Old April 09, 2020, 20:33   #2
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2 9/16 chamber in that gun. 20 gauge frame, prolly a 26" full choke barrel. the one that i had just like yours had lots of scroll mother of pearl inlay, and was maybe 5 pounds. sold it a few years back.
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Old April 09, 2020, 21:04   #3
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Chamber gauge shows less than 2-9/16". I read somewhere that there were 2-1/2" chambers. I could be wrong. It shoots the 2-1/2" shells just fine.

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Old April 09, 2020, 21:54   #4
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i read that 1927 was the end of 2 9/16 for 20 gauge in winchester shotguns, thereafter 2 3/4. the old paper shells had round paper caps and measured true. modern stuff with flare crimp is a different animal, so a modern 2 3/4 chamber is different from an old style chamber.

this is a good source for 2 and 2 1/2 shells:

http://www.bandpusa.com/
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If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will.

Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old April 10, 2020, 08:02   #5
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OK..I think I have the answer. The chamber is officially 2-9/16". It is designed for the use of 2-9/16" OR 2-1/2" shells.

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Old April 10, 2020, 08:48   #6
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My first gun that my Dad gave me when I was 13 was a stevens 16 ga. single shot.

Me and that gun quickly became best friends and it has easily taken more game than every other gun that I own combined.

Every 16 that I have owned have been nice shooting guns for sure.
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Old April 10, 2020, 09:30   #7
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I’ve got a couple of 16 gauge shotguns. One 870, I think on a 12 gauge frame and a Savage single shot. I have never shot either, or any 16. I do have some shells though, but may just make a package deal and sell the guns with shells some day.
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Old April 10, 2020, 09:46   #8
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I don't see many 16 ga guns around anymore in this part of the country. My pre-World War One drilling is a 16 though:

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Old April 10, 2020, 10:17   #9
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My first shotgun and the one I hunted Dove ,quail and pheasant with is a FN made Browning A5 Sweetsixteen.Love that gun.
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Old April 10, 2020, 17:53   #10
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I always like 16 gauge SG's, liked my cousins Ithaca 16 when hunting pheasant/rabbit's as kids in eastern Ohio. I inherited my Dad's Winchester Model 12 he purchased new after returning from WWII, well built, 12 ga, always goes bang. The Model 12 SG's also served our military from WWI thru VN.
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Old April 10, 2020, 19:27   #11
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The vast majority of my shotgunning has been with a 12 bore but I have shot a "Sweet 16."

Michael McIntosh, the best short story/memoir of fathers and sons hunting I ever read, "Knowing How, Knowing When," had much to say about "The Sweet 16."

Congratulations.
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Old April 10, 2020, 19:34   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texgunner View Post
My pre-World War One drilling is a 16 though
For some unknown or forgotten reason, I have had a fascination with drillings since I was a kid.

Never had one yet, but if the right one comes along for the right price.....
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Old April 11, 2020, 06:51   #13
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For some unknown or forgotten reason, I have had a fascination with drillings since I was a kid.

Never had one yet, but if the right one comes along for the right price.....
Probably not all that many floating around in Kentucky
keep your eyes open if and when Gun Shows come back
They started turning up semi regularly with old timers selling off things maybe several years ago or more
Guns that were selling well over 2K in the 70s are now running $1500 or less in my market. Younger folks just have no interest in them and the hardcore fans are quickly passing on these days so they sadly languish here now
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Old April 11, 2020, 08:11   #14
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My first shotgun was a Stevens double barrel in 16g. I bought it for $35 and it had a stovebolt through the stock to keep it tight against the receiver tangs. One morning before going duck hunting, I tightened the stovebolt so the stock wouldn't wiggle so much. When we got to the blind, first thing I did was open it and drop a couple of rounds in the tubes. When I snapped it shut, both barrels went off showering us all with mud, water and bits of twigs. Lucky I wasn't still in the boat. I still have the gun but it has a new stock without a stovebolt.
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Old April 11, 2020, 08:13   #15
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The Drillings turn up from time to time at auctions here in South Central PA. I guess the PA Dutch had an affinity for them. I have seen some very nice maker's marked pieces and some "guild" pieces. Most have an issue or two, but there are some very nice ones as well. The nice ones tend to go 2k+.

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Old April 11, 2020, 08:23   #16
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The last drilling I saw locally was a year or two ago at $1,700 IIRC. I see one occasionally but they are fairly rare. I do not remember if there was something I did not like about that specific one at the price, or if the timing was just wrong to drop the coin at the time. Either way, none have made it's way to my place, yet!
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Old April 11, 2020, 09:05   #17
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Dad bought me a lightly used A5 16 ga for my 16th birthday. Back in the mid-70’s, JM Fields, precursor to Walmart and Target, sold Canuck low brass shells for $2.99 a box and a case of skeet for a couple of bucks more. Shot hundreds of rounds using a hand thrower. That’s when $10 could buy an afternoon of fun. A5 still occupying a cherished spot in my safe.
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Old April 11, 2020, 09:20   #18
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saw a drilling in live auction last fall. a german made double 16 over 7x57 rimmed. made in the 70's, it weighed about 12 pounds and was stiff in opening and closing. it brought 2400$ cased and as new.
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Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old April 11, 2020, 09:42   #19
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You never know what might find you in the wilds of Kentucky....

This J P Sauer 16x16x7x65 Ziess scoped drilling found me.
Shows honest carry and use wear,,but locks up like a bank vault.
And,,Ive always wanted something with qd claw mounts.
Though what really sealed the deal, is it was made the year I was born....

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Old April 11, 2020, 10:23   #20
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Quote:
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My first shotgun and the one I hunted Dove ,quail and pheasant with is a FN made Browning A5 Sweetsixteen.Love that gun.
I have a Remington Sportsman in 16 gauge that was my first shotgun, given to me by a cousin, who also took me on my first quail hunt. The forearms on the Remington tended to split because they were thin, as mine did, sadly. Miss my cousin, died back in the 90’s from stomach cancer. Hard way to go.
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Old April 11, 2020, 16:49   #21
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My first shotgun and the one I hunted Dove ,quail and pheasant with is a FN made Browning A5 Sweetsixteen.Love that gun.
FN Browning Sweet Sixteen is my only 16 gauge. Love mine too!







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Old April 11, 2020, 21:26   #22
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Thumbs up Old School

I have a soft spot for a select few old shotguns, all John Moses Browning designed or inspired. The Win. Model 12 of the OP is not a JMB design, but it did carry over the interrupted thread take-down system used by him in his preceding Model 1897.

I don't have a Model 12, but I do have some JMB oldies, namely an 1897 as well as some of the Stevens 520/620 series, in which the mating spline take-down design (actually cribbed from the Burgess folding shotgun) is much more robust than the 1897/12 thread system. In any event, these "antiques" do something few modern shotguns can replicate, see below:



Tailor made for your bug out bag!
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Old April 13, 2020, 09:33   #23
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I have a soft spot for a select few old shotguns, all John Moses Browning designed or inspired. The Win. Model 12 of the OP is not a JMB design, but it did carry over the interrupted thread take-down system used by him in his preceding Model 1897.

I don't have a Model 12, but I do have some JMB oldies, namely an 1897 as well as some of the Stevens 520/620 series, in which the mating spline take-down design (actually cribbed from the Burgess folding shotgun) is much more robust than the 1897/12 thread system. In any event, these "antiques" do something few modern shotguns can replicate, see below:

Tailor made for your bug out bag!
Ive never messed with a Stevens take down. Do they also allow for head space adjustment like the 97 or model 12 ?
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Old April 13, 2020, 10:30   #24
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The Stevens 520 does not allow for headspace adjustment but it is not needed due to the way the barrel attaches to the frame and the way the bolt locks up.
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Old April 13, 2020, 12:25   #25
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The Stevens 520 does not allow for headspace adjustment but it is not needed due to the way the barrel attaches to the frame and the way the bolt locks up.
Very interesting,,,learn something new every day,,,I'll have to add it to my keep an eye out for list...
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Old April 13, 2020, 14:34   #26
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My first shotgun was a combination gun that Dad brought back from Germany after WW2. I still and always will have it . It is 16 gauge over a caliber that i have never been able to identify. It's a rimmed , straight wall cartridge. The barrel is stamped 6.4mm.
It's a light weight , slight little thing. It's beautifully made. It has a under the trigger guard break open lever. It also has claw mounts. The claw mounts were added after it was made because they cover some of the engraving on the barrel.
Dad always said that the German people were required to store their guns in police stations as part of the Nazi civilian disarmament program. He said that people kept their scopes in the hope that they would be able to reclaim their firearm at a latter date.

I shot a lot of doves with it !
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Old April 13, 2020, 15:15   #27
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I don't see many 16 ga guns around anymore in this part of the country. My pre-World War One drilling is a 16 though:

That is a beautiful looking piece!

Share the backstory?
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Old April 13, 2020, 15:18   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yovinny View Post
You never know what might find you in the wilds of Kentucky....

This J P Sauer 16x16x7x65 Ziess scoped drilling found me.
Shows honest carry and use wear,,but locks up like a bank vault.
And,,Ive always wanted something with qd claw mounts.
Though what really sealed the deal, is it was made the year I was born....

Wow! Another bitchin' drilling. That is super cool.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old April 13, 2020, 15:22   #29
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That is a beautiful looking piece!

Share the backstory?
Thanks brunop! Here's the original thread:

https://www.falfiles.com/forums/show...light=drilling
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Old April 13, 2020, 22:07   #30
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The Poor, Neglected Stevens!

Quote:
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Ive never messed with a Stevens take down. Do they also allow for head space adjustment like the 97 or model 12 ?
I don't believe the Winchester 1897/12 shotguns or the Stevens 520/620 series have headspace adjustments per se, but they allow the user take up slack (wobble) in the barrel extension to receiver fit caused by wear (usually the wear resulting from taking down the shotgun!). The Winchesters utilize a tricky little adjustment sleeve that can be rotated by small amounts and locked into place as indicated by the notches cut in the edge:



As indicated by Gazz, the Stevens doesn't need to be adjusted in a separate evolution, it is self-adjusted every time the owner puts the fore end back on and screws down the mag tube to tighten it. Voila, a done deal! Much superior to the Winchester design, IMO.
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Old April 21, 2020, 21:50   #31
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Never fired a 16 gauge either. Nor a .303 or 7.62x54 R. I really need to remedy both of those deficiencies.
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Old April 21, 2020, 22:09   #32
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Never fired a 16 gauge either. Nor a .303 or 7.62x54 R. I really need to remedy both of those deficiencies.
The .303 British and 7.62x54R can be quite sharp in the short-barreled rifles, eg. Enfield No. 5 ("Jungle Carbine") and the short Mosins (M-44, M-38, 91/59). But I don't think it's all that bad in full-length rifles. I find about 20 rds. of 7.62x54R in a short rifle about right.
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Old April 26, 2020, 07:57   #33
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Busted some clay birds and some chukars this weekend with the ole girl. She can still shoot!! Funny story, a local bird farm had 60,000 chukars destined for NY pay to hunt clubs, which of course are now closed. He was giving the birds away. My buddy took about 1000. We had to catch them and cage them, which was a fun adventure by itself. After warming up with some clay birds, we did the real thing. Chukar jamalaya today!!

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Old April 26, 2020, 09:18   #34
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Busted some clay birds and some chukars this weekend with the ole girl. She can still shoot!! Funny story, a local bird farm had 60,000 chukars destined for NY pay to hunt clubs, which of course are now closed. He was giving the birds away. My buddy took about 1000. We had to catch them and cage them, which was a fun adventure by itself. After warming up with some clay birds, we did the real thing. Chukar jamalaya today!!

krf
if they are in pens best to bag them in burlap sacks like chickens with a red light after dark. birds in this genus can't see red light frequencies. their retinas don't have many cones, rather being mostly rods, so have excellent movement detection and boundary definition vision.
__________________
If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will.

Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old April 26, 2020, 12:04   #35
John A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
Probably not all that many floating around in Kentucky
You would be incorrect about that. At least in the county that I live in.

Even Walmart sells 16 gauge here.

And FWIW, I have two 16's.
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