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Old July 21, 2019, 16:18   #101
Riversidesports
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Originally Posted by 4markk View Post
I digress, but I have a family story. My grandmother had a newspaper clip of the frontpage of a nearby city's newspaper back in the 1930's. The photo covered nearly half of the frontpage and it was of my great-grandmother's brother standing in the middle of about 200 strikers and he's one-arming a Thompson with drum magazine.

He died a couple years before I was born, so I never met the man. But in my teenage years I'd ask about the story and the gun. She'd always just reply, "aw, he probably got rid of it". Never did go into the story.

A couple years ago the picture resurfaced and the local historical society filled in the story on the picture. Apparently, the story isn't as exciting as the picture. My great-great-uncle was a truck driver and he was trying to drive through a picket-line during what turned out to be a very violent strike in my hometown. When the picket wouldn't open and they started pounding on the truck he stepped out with the Tommy Gun and threatened to shoot a few.

Well, one of the bigger guys in the crowd walked up to him and took the gun away. Pulled out the mag and handed them back to him. He just got back in the truck and drove away, never to try driving through again. A reporter asked the big guy why he just walked up and took the gun. He replied that he'd been in the Great War and could tell my great-great-uncle was not the type to shoot unarmed men. So, this is what my grandmother probably meant by, "he got rid of it". How I wish I had that Tommy Gun.
Cool Beans Mark

probably even more to the story. Wimmins were fond of emblishing family history. Grand dad hated my AR15, early 70s
he shot it once at the town dump, ran a full 20 through it
when he finished off the rats handing it back to me told me he hated shooting wimmens
I was like 13, never asked about that, he was weepy after blowing rats up with me.

Grandma became pretty open right before we moved her into nursing
he was born in 1900
she like 1918
eloped and married when he was 28' so she was maybe 15 at best
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Old July 21, 2019, 17:28   #102
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Respectfully to you OES, they shouldn’t be surrendered or disappear. They should be organized & marched in protest, ready for play, for all the world to see how Free people refuse tyranny. NZers had (have) a chance to shine and change the course of your own futures, marking world history in the name of Liberty as you go. I hope you fine folks reconsider your collective destiny as countrymen.

But you got paid better for turning them in. What is the going rate for freedom down there these days?
I would very respectfully point out that the gentleman for NZ could very well point out that we in the US did not march in protest(in my recollection) nor did we make ready for play for the world to see when the '68 Crime bill prohibited imports of MG for the general public, as well as establish draconian "sporting use", point systems,etc to import guns.
Nor did we march when in 1986 the MG prohibition killed domestic MG production for civilians. When a multitude of states pass stupid,onerous laws restricting lawful use of legally obtained weapons, no such actions as the ones suggested have been made here to any appreciable extent.
I applaud your convictions but I always remember the old Indian(?) saying:
"Walk a mile in my shoes..."

God Bless this GREAT country of hours.
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Old July 21, 2019, 18:18   #103
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My comments on Trump speaks for itself and the banning of bumpstock and similar trigger jerking devices are certainly not acceptable for target shooting or hunting nor a mainstream concern of most firearms owners. Those devices are just attemps to skirt NFA law and we saw they are a menace to public safety documented in the event at Las Vagas.
Supressors are covered under the NFA the 1968 Gun Control Act or both and Trump is entitled to his opinion. To amend the law for supressors the issue would have to go through the congress and we know how that would end.

By virtue of open ear shooter's original #1 post would losing a few unsuitable bells & whistles be a major concern versus the total loss of our firearms?
And that’s exactly how they get away with chipping away at our rights. It doesn’t matter if you agree with the purpose of a bump stock or not. After bump stocks, what’s next?

They can say triggers with less than a five lb pull are too capable of killing too many people. Get rid of them! Then, they move on to semi auto rifles, and so on and so fourth.

That’s how it starts. And Congress? Congress has been responsible for the last two major assault weapons bans.

And yes, of course trumps entitled to his opinion. Unfortunately, his past opinions and campaign promises don’t Coincide with his current actions. Shocker!

And don’t even get me started with him endorsing red flag laws.

You know where you can lose all YOUR firearms without being charged with a crime. Simply on someone’s word that you shouldn’t have them.

All the talk of resistance and watering the tree of liberty and all the other macho bullshit I hear here, on you tube, my shooting range, and the pd makes me laugh. We are currently losing our rights and the people who voted for Trump make excuses saying “well, what’s the real purpose of a bump stock?” That doesn’t apply the hunting or shooting so outlaw it.

I think bump stocks are retarded but I’m not ok with the governments further infringement of my rights.

So many of you give the guy from New Zealand a hard time yet we are currently losing our gun rights and a majority of our community Just turning a blind eye to it.
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Old July 21, 2019, 18:32   #104
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Originally Posted by hkshooter View Post
There needs to be a clear definition of what an "arm" is
I believe the definition of ARM should intentionally be left blank. Just like it was back in the late 1700's.

We don't know what kind of weapons systems there will be 200 years from now. A thousand years from now.

We don't know what kind of technological advancements are going to take place.

ARM is anything that you can use to keep you on a level playing field with anyone who would try to say otherwise.

Back when the Bill of Rights was penned, Arms included navy ships and cannons, and long guns and ammunition and swords and sabers and whatever else was in use at the time.

The 1968 GCA (gun control act) authors who included the stupid SPORTING PURPOSES definition can kiss my ass. That's NOT what the founding fathers ever intended.
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Old July 21, 2019, 18:47   #105
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I believe the definition of ARM should intentionally be left blank. Just like it was back in the late 1700's.

We don't know what kind of weapons systems there will be 200 years from now. A thousand years from now.

We don't know what kind of technological advancements are going to take place.

ARM is anything that you can use to keep you on a level playing field with anyone who would try to say otherwise.

Back when the Bill of Rights was penned, Arms included navy ships and cannons, and long guns and ammunition and swords and sabers and whatever else was in use at the time.
Good point, one I had forgotten about. Your definition above is a good one.
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Old July 21, 2019, 19:08   #106
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Good point, one I had forgotten about. Your definition above is a good one.
“the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding,” DC v. Heller, 554 U. S. 570, 582 (2008)
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Old July 21, 2019, 19:23   #107
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In 1921, the Thompson sold for $200. Depending on how you calculate inflation, that $200 is like 3,000 to $6,000 in today's money

No one could afford the Thompson and the company was on the brink of bankruptcy. It was Prohibition that made criminals wealth enough to afford a Thompson. Even then, it wasn't a common firearm.

The Dillinger with his BARs is a weak argument as he stole those from the National Guard

And Dakto thinks by giving the devil something, the devil will leave us alone.
Maybe Dakto should change his handle to Dummyto

Let's see now, you are taking on those who argue the cost of automatic weapons pre-1932 and the weapons were stolen versus my point that they became a menace to society in the hands of criminals during the Great Depression. So who cares where they got the weapons. The 1934 NFA Act was because they had them and used them at will among other issues. I don't see any daylight here in your assessment.
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Old July 21, 2019, 19:43   #108
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hey all, about 2 hours ago I surrendered the first 2 of my FALs to the NZ Police for destruction ! before anyone asks they where registered restricted firearms and I have no choice in the matter

these are my "modernized Para's"
You look like a collector to me. Apply for an exemption.
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Old July 21, 2019, 19:44   #109
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And that’s exactly how they get away with chipping away at our rights. It doesn’t matter if you agree with the purpose of a bump stock or not. After bump stocks, what’s next?

They can say triggers with less than a five lb pull are too capable of killing too many people. Get rid of them! Then, they move on to semi auto rifles, and so on and so fourth.

That’s how it starts. And Congress? Congress has been responsible for the last two major assault weapons bans.

And yes, of course trumps entitled to his opinion. Unfortunately, his past opinions and campaign promises don’t Coincide with his current actions. Shocker!

And don’t even get me started with him endorsing red flag laws.

You know where you can lose all YOUR firearms without being charged with a crime. Simply on someone’s word that you shouldn’t have them.

All the talk of resistance and watering the tree of liberty and all the other macho bullshit I hear here, on you tube, my shooting range, and the pd makes me laugh. We are currently losing our rights and the people who voted for Trump make excuses saying “well, what’s the real purpose of a bump stock?” That doesn’t apply the hunting or shooting so outlaw it.

I think bump stocks are retarded but I’m not ok with the governments further infringement of my rights.

So many of you give the guy from New Zealand a hard time yet we are currently losing our gun rights and a majority of our community Just turning a blind eye to it.
I believe some of your conclusions are a bit overreach.
Bumpstocks are bad news period. Ask the survivors of the Las Vagas massacre. Better yet ask the relatives of those murdered.

The next will be a continued call for firearms confiscation if the mass killing of civilians continue. Authority needs to get on top of the situation by preventing those who are allowed to purchase firearms with the intent to murder multible people. Can you give a little there or should the mass murders be allowed to continue. I like your answer.

Problem solving cannot be one sided ever no matter what vocation/avocation you are in. Life is a series of conflicting issues which do not get better when being ignored.
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Old July 21, 2019, 19:57   #110
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You are a riot Dak

I'm not debating you, I want other folks to really look at this history and do their own conclusions for better or maybe worse

yeah you visualize it all as attacks on your character
that's weak kneed shit friend
your position in my opinion is bullshit, I can easily provide links on where those MGs came from, period cost, cost of a model A, working wages in the 30s, etc versus your fantasy world as I see it

so you want to pull up your big boy pants and really play with me on all this ?
Again, I am trying hard not to be the Dick to you as you are being to me

Shit, convince me otherwise...
give evidence your position is more accurate Dak
Well let's face facts as I don't live in your foul mouth and condescending behavior world nor do I intend to trade barracks barbs with any member like yourself.
I believe this entire thread was sailing along just fine until you showed up and inserted yourself as you usually do and disrupted the continuity of a positive discussion.
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Old July 21, 2019, 20:02   #111
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I believe Fud Geezers should Choke on Broken Glass

Liberty or Death.
I believe a puppy who cannot run with the big dogs needs to stay on the porch.

How are things down at New Level or is that Dogpatch?
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Old July 21, 2019, 20:07   #112
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Let's see now, you are taking on those who argue the cost of automatic weapons pre-1932 and the weapons were stolen versus my point that they became a menace to society in the hands of criminals during the Great Depression. So who cares where they got the weapons. The 1934 NFA Act was because they had them and used them at will among other issues. I don't see any daylight here in your assessment.
Well I tried...

Mark's right, you are the biggest idiot on this board Dak

So by your own admission then ALL firearms need registration particularly anything concealable right fuktard…

MGs have way less than 1% in violent crime and there are hundreds of thousands unregistered in America

Criminals most often use handguns
so again by your blatant approval of the 34' NFA Act you will wrap your flabby arms around and embrace a $200 tax on any handgun
Fuk off Dak
Your think will result in massive bloodshed
I mean where in the heck is your head at ?

so baddies get guns and you think then guns deserve regulation like the 34' Act even though back then most of them were stolen from either the military or police ?

Again, where in the hell is your head at moron

I have been attempting to be nice
honestly folks like you make it impossible

menace to society ?
how many innocents were machinegunned to dead prior to 34' by folks outside the police fucktard
you have watched to damn' many movies

I am hard core on the issue Dak
no, I won't march...we people just won't comply with your now exposed agenda

again I tried to be cool with you but you have exposed yourself as a festering maggot ridden turd in our midst Dak
be well you piece of shit
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Old July 21, 2019, 20:20   #113
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Originally Posted by Sh3008
So many of you give the guy from New Zealand a hard time yet we are currently losing our gun rights and a majority of our community Just turning a blind eye to it.
The RKBA community is pretty complacent right now. Everyone thinks “No Hillary = everything is perfect.” We should be winning back our rights as we speak, but the NRA is more concerned with protecting crooked leadership and maintaining the status quo. As long as gun control forces get an occasional win, the NRA can count on us staying scared and angry - and money pouring in.
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Old July 21, 2019, 20:24   #114
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Well let's face facts as I don't live in your foul mouth and condescending behavior world nor do I intend to trade barracks barbs with any member like yourself.
I believe this entire thread was sailing along just fine until you showed up and inserted yourself as you usually do and disrupted the continuity of a positive discussion.
Honestly I left it alone dipshit

wanted to see other members respond
some were pretty nasty as I expected

You are now all un****ed as you accidently exposed your progressive agenda Dak

You are the main one that disrupted shit with your leftist lies regarding the NFA
again, please educate us on the numbers of innocents machinegunned in the lead up to 1934
"silencers" used
etc etc etc you fat body

yeah, familiar with your type fatty
hows the metformin doing you lard ass
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Old July 21, 2019, 20:25   #115
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I believe some of your conclusions are a bit overreach.
Bumpstocks are bad news period. Ask the survivors of the Las Vagas massacre. Better yet ask the relatives of those murdered.

The next will be a continued call for firearms confiscation if the mass killing of civilians continue. Authority needs to get on top of the situation by preventing those who are allowed to purchase firearms with the intent to murder multible people. Can you give a little there or should the mass murders be allowed to continue. I like your answer.

Problem solving cannot be one sided ever no matter what vocation/avocation you are in. Life is a series of conflicting issues which do not get better when being ignored.
Again

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin"

It's horrible that mass shootings happen. But a collective punishment for the actions of a single person is ridiculous.
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Old July 21, 2019, 20:30   #116
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The RKBA community is pretty complacent right now. Everyone thinks “No Hillary = everything is perfect.” We should be winning back our rights as we speak, but the NRA is more concerned with protecting crooked leadership and maintaining the status quo. As long as gun control forces get an occasional win, the NRA can count on us staying scared and angry - and money pouring in.
It certainly is in the best interests of the NRA to keep the threat of anti firearms legislation on the docket. Somehow that never occurred to me before. Hmm...
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Old July 21, 2019, 20:42   #117
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I won't waste my time with Mr Medication.
Lay off other's Liberty and you may not get your shit pushed in
me thinks Dak enjoys having his turd pushed back up inside him
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Old July 21, 2019, 21:38   #118
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Collusion.

I'd bet the NRA and (R's) pay (D's) to push Anti 2nd Laws to compel membership, contributions, and votes.
And this is a perfect example of the road being long and hard. It's the standard divide and conquer.

Love them or hate them, the NRA is the symbol of our political clout. Which is the main reason Bloomberg and his cronies are going after it full throttle. If we lose that clout, our fight becomes near impossible.

The media prints nothing but negative articles and stories about the NRA with the main purpose to drive people away. Did any of you stop and think what would happen if people and money started leaving the NRA in droves? If you don't believe that, then you might as well turn your guns in to the kings men, because that is what is coming.

This is today's headline, "New Zealanders hand over 10,000-plus guns and weapons parts in buy-back scheme". The scheming with continue and the negative press will continue until one side wins.

Is that fear monger or just lessons from history? If we can't unite behind a cause by sending a few dollars, you'll never unite to fight the king's men, which is a LOT harder.
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Old July 21, 2019, 21:39   #119
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I believe some of your conclusions are a bit overreach.
Bumpstocks are bad news period. Ask the survivors of the Las Vagas massacre. Better yet ask the relatives of those murdered.

The next will be a continued call for firearms confiscation if the mass killing of civilians continue. Authority needs to get on top of the situation by preventing those who are allowed to purchase firearms with the intent to murder multible people. Can you give a little there or should the mass murders be allowed to continue. I like your answer.

Problem solving cannot be one sided ever no matter what vocation/avocation you are in. Life is a series of conflicting issues which do not get better when being ignored.
DakTo:

The Files self confessed advocate of Gun Registration and Bans

I will ride you forever on this
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Old July 21, 2019, 21:48   #120
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I believe some of your conclusions are a bit overreach.
Bumpstocks are bad news period. Ask the survivors of the Las Vagas massacre. Better yet ask the relatives of those murdered.

The next will be a continued call for firearms confiscation if the mass killing of civilians continue. Authority needs to get on top of the situation by preventing those who are allowed to purchase firearms with the intent to murder multible people. Can you give a little there or should the mass murders be allowed to continue. I like your answer.
Way to drink the Bloomberg Kool-Aid.

Bump Stocks did not commit those crimes, a murderous lunatic did. The left deflects onto the items of their despair and you are drinking it up.

Yes, we need to find REAL ways to stop these and NOT feel good measures that will accomplish NOTHING.
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Old July 21, 2019, 22:08   #121
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Did you strip all the accessories and just hand over the receivers and barrel?
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Old July 21, 2019, 22:10   #122
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I just moved back from Australia and it was damn lonely without my little black friends. Cost of a Beretta92FS? $3000 - mag capped to 10rnds and you MUST keep your firearm in a rented range locker.
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Old July 21, 2019, 22:14   #123
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You look like a collector to me. Apply for an exemption.
tried but was told they have no collector value ! I am holding out on my Rhodie, G-Series, BGS, factory Para and a few Israeli ex State Police FALs along with 4 L1A1 SLRs
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Old July 21, 2019, 22:33   #124
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Did you strip all the accessories and just hand over the receivers and barrel?
they needed to be complete functioning Firearms which need to pass a inspection i.e. some Police Officer racks the action a few times then does a dry fire puts yellow chamber flag in the breech then says some pre monologed rhetoric dribble and move over to the "Computer Area" do the name, age blah blah then they ask you did you bring your own lube ? if not take a complimentary scoop out of our bulk bucket and move on to the payment counter
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Old July 21, 2019, 23:12   #125
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they needed to be complete functioning Firearms which need to pass a inspection i.e. some Police Officer racks the action a few times then does a dry fire puts yellow chamber flag in the breech then says some pre monologed rhetoric dribble and move over to the "Computer Area" do the name, age blah blah then they ask you did you bring your own lube ? if not take a complimentary scoop out of our bulk bucket and move on to the payment counter
Have suppressors been targeted yet or it's still over the counter silcencers?
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Old July 21, 2019, 23:18   #126
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Have suppressors been targeted yet or it's still over the counter silcencers?
if a device is designed to fit a now Prohibited Firearm then it to is Prohibited

you can still buy silencers but if you have one that fits a semi-auto centrefire then illegal

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Old July 21, 2019, 23:35   #127
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Only Minutes ago: you might not recognise Her with out the Photo-Op P.C head gear on but that is our P.M on the left with the Horse Teeth

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...2CDy3Ya4iRNiTc

looks like universal registration for all NZ Firearm category's with 5 year license re-newels
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Old July 22, 2019, 00:37   #128
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if a device is designed to fit a now Prohibited Firearm then it to is Prohibited

you can still buy silencers but if you have one that fits a semi-auto centrefire then illegal
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Old July 22, 2019, 01:30   #129
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American gun owners in states like California have already caved and will continue to do so, no different than NZ. The fedgov will be run by commie muz radicals soon & it will then be nut cuttin time. I have watched the ridiculous vids from California in which some dork tries to explain the latest Cali laws. When I first moved to California in 1988 guns such as AKs & SKSs, and others were sold at the local shopping mall in Carlsbad, Ca. The recent Indian wars did not end until the early 1900s. Another guerilla type resistance movement might be in the making. The huge influx of Mexicans Will ensure a tighter grip on power by the Democrats. I found out today my church is down in Texas feeding illegal aliens. We are effectively cutting our own throat.
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Old July 22, 2019, 04:45   #130
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DakTo:

The Files self confessed advocate of Gun Registration and Bans

I will ride you forever on this
Maybe you would like to point out exactly where I stated all firearms needed to be registered? You won't and you cannot.

You seem to have a habit of processing times, events and other's comments the way you wish them to be for some odd reason. How ingratiating of you.

I am going to place you on my vacation list along with Mark Graham and his Poodle if you don't mind.
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Old July 22, 2019, 04:53   #131
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Collusion.

I'd bet the NRA and (R's) pay (D's) to push Anti 2nd Laws to compel membership, contributions, and votes.
Nonsense and fake news.
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Old July 22, 2019, 05:15   #132
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American gun owners in states like California have already caved and will continue to do so, no different than NZ. The fedgov will be run by commie muz radicals soon & it will then be nut cuttin time. I have watched the ridiculous vids from California in which some dork tries to explain the latest Cali laws. When I first moved to California in 1988 guns such as AKs & SKSs, and others were sold at the local shopping mall in Carlsbad, Ca. The recent Indian wars did not end until the early 1900s. Another guerilla type resistance movement might be in the making. The huge influx of Mexicans Will ensure a tighter grip on power by the Democrats. I found out today my church is down in Texas feeding illegal aliens. We are effectively cutting our own throat.
I share your concerns. I don't believe California gunowners caved in as it is more likely they are outnumbered both in the local political world and the liberal population. As I have stated before this has happened in the Northeast states the past couple of decades and is happening now in the mid-Atlantic to Southern coastal states by liberal political design.

Too many are placing their misdirected concerns towards the Federal Government where as the real menace is more local in states and cities for stricter gun control. The liberal media and politicians continue their national campaign to dominate the anti-firearms narrative to stimulate the now liberal leaning states to take action in gun control. That is where the real threat is at this point in time, I believe

Your are correct to feel a bit confused as the world and our country is changing thanks to 8 years of the Obama Administration. 8 years of brainwashing is not easily eradicated and the higher learning system continues to be full of left and left leaning educators.
Why do you think the political left, its puppet media and its surrogate squad are trying their best to take President Trump and his administration down? Trump is reversing the political and constituent tide to actually maintain America's grestness.
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Old July 22, 2019, 05:39   #133
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Maybe you would like to point out exactly where I stated all firearms needed to be registered? You won't and you cannot.

You seem to have a habit of processing times, events and other's comments the way you wish them to be for some odd reason. How ingratiating of you.

I am going to place you on my vacation list along with Mark Graham and his Poodle if you don't mind.
The problem isn't that you said "all", the problem is that you said "some."

It shouldn't matter how many loonies go on a shooting spree, that should not influence a right that is #2 and says "shall not be infringed".

The NFA laws are unconstitutional, but I follow them because quite frankly it's not worth my life being ruined over.(Hence where we discussed deplorables earlier and I mentioned domesticated?) But saying "bump stocks should be banned because they skirt that law." Well.. you and I have a fundamental difference in opinion on that I guess.
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Old July 22, 2019, 05:44   #134
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I just moved back from Australia and it was damn lonely without my little black friends. Cost of a Beretta92FS? $3000 - mag capped to 10rnds and you MUST keep your firearm in a rented range locker.
....you are mostly wrong there mate. A new 92FS is $1109, a Brigadier is $1400. Yes there is a 10 round limit but you are most certainly able to store it at home as long as you have an approved safe. And yes that is Vic law I am quoting
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Old July 22, 2019, 12:57   #135
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z7eFk5FquLE

Have zero doubt our black rifles will be banned in next 10 years & some smarmy well dressed cops will enforce the changes. There is all ready a data base with all our info. Just a few clicks of the mouse and your ass is a felon. Geronimo was jailed just down the road until death.
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Old July 22, 2019, 13:17   #136
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Why do you think the political left, its puppet media and its surrogate squad are trying their best to take President Trump and his administration down? Trump is reversing the political and constituent tide to actually maintain America's grestness.
In this “Great America,” the NFA, GCA, and numerous other transgressions against the Second Amendment have stood for decades. I’d like to know when people are going to get real about this. A friend of mine - small FFL - explained how backwards many of our gun laws are the other day to a guy who asked “why does anyone need a suppressor?” And he was 100% spot on that a great many of our gun laws in this “great America” have been pointless and ineffective for generations.

So when do we stop blowing hot air about our “greatness” and just start being regular people who have a Constitution / Bill of Rights and who follow it?
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Old July 22, 2019, 13:37   #137
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Hebrew Battle Rifle regular people who have a Constitution / Bill of Rights and who follow it?
With the exception of the 13th amendment, The Constitution/BoR do not apply to regular Americans.
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Old July 22, 2019, 13:42   #138
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If anyone wants to drop anything in southern part of Auckland this week I will see its swept up.... Will also have a chance in September.
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Old July 22, 2019, 16:50   #139
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Is selling to overseas buyers an option? Figure those guns might wind up in hands of those that can enjoy them, vs getting crushed/cut up. Granted the export/import process has many hoops.
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Old July 22, 2019, 18:16   #140
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A few determined men could change that situation around ...

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Old July 22, 2019, 19:05   #141
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When will we learn?

Without reading into this whole NZ Gun Ban, I am willing to bet the first thing that went down was “Gun Registration” for the safety of the people. Then, the last thing that went down was “Gun Confiscation” for the safety of the people.

And how did the NZ Government accomplish this? Lie to the people, then use Gun Registration to confiscate the guns. Sound familiar? How do you think Hitler conquered his own people? This technique has been used over and over. America realized it after WW2 and abolished (supposedly) Gun Registration on a federal level.

The problem is, we (us) Americans allow these twisted liberal states to break Federal Law. There should be severe consequences, but there never is. In fact, just the opposite...other states follow suit...and more states break federal laws.

If I am not mistaken, I thought this was all decided with blood on the battlefields of the civil war? I guess not...we still allow jackasses in Office (Schumer, Feinstein, Cortez, Pelosi etc) to gain votes (illegal votes) and continue to change our country for the worst.

You know, the very least thing Congress should be doing at this moment is DEFUNDING states like California & New York!

The second thing is press Federal Charges against these jackasses they have elected into congress (starting with the squad of 4 idiots)!

We are not to far behind NZ. I am glad to live this life today, for in 100 years, this USA will most assuredly be a shithole country if things don’t change.
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Old July 22, 2019, 22:43   #142
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registration means confiscation. Just not as offensive. Like calling a Communist a "social democrat". They are the same evil religion of slavery, nihilism and death. Just one sounds milder.
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Old July 23, 2019, 05:52   #143
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It appears the NZ firearms buyback program had a timeline.

The gun reform law passed in April banned most semi-auto firearms plus parts that converted into semi-auto firearms. Also magazines over a certain capacity and some shotguns.

Owners have until December 20 to hand in their weapons and funds have been set aside to compensate up to 95 percent of original cost.
3,275 firearms and 7,827 parts and accessories have been turned in and authorities have paid NZ$6 million.
With a population of just under 5 million and an estimated total of 1.5 million firearms, New Zealand ranks 17th in the world in terms of civilian firearm ownership. (RUTERS)

An interesting perspective:

https://reason.com/2019/07/08/noncom...ontrol-scheme/
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Old July 23, 2019, 06:41   #144
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In this “Great America,” the NFA, GCA, and numerous other transgressions against the Second Amendment have stood for decades. I’d like to know when people are going to get real about this. A friend of mine - small FFL - explained how backwards many of our gun laws are the other day to a guy who asked “why does anyone need a suppressor?” And he was 100% spot on that a great many of our gun laws in this “great America” have been pointless and ineffective for generations.

So when do we stop blowing hot air about our “greatness” and just start being regular people who have a Constitution / Bill of Rights and who follow it?
First of all, America's current greatnes is more broad based with our economy, military and global influence which are a credit to the Trump Administration. The only things we want to hear about firearms from our goverment is.....silence.

As far as the NFA goes ownership including myself are a smaller group of gunowners whom rather stay innocuous rather than appearing boisterous in any respect
Repeal the NFA?. Not much chance in that as the very word: "Machinegun" including supressors (silencers) scares the crap out of the general public and politicians. Besides, the politicians believe they have the fully automatics well sequestered with the NFA and the Hughes Amendment. (Firearms Owner Protection Act)

Pointless and ineffective gun laws are only that way if not enforced which is a platform of the NRA and conservative politicians. Needless (feel good) gun laws I agree, and most of which I believe are enacted at the states level.

Personally, i am more concerned about future firearms prohibitions on the federal and state level than mounting any ineffective national campaign on repealment.
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Old July 23, 2019, 06:58   #145
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The problem isn't that you said "all", the problem is that you said "some."

It shouldn't matter how many loonies go on a shooting spree, that should not influence a right that is #2 and says "shall not be infringed".

The NFA laws are unconstitutional, but I follow them because quite frankly it's not worth my life being ruined over.(Hence where we discussed deplorables earlier and I mentioned domesticated?) But saying "bump stocks should be banned because they skirt that law." Well.. you and I have a fundamental difference in opinion on that I guess.
"Some" referring to those in the NFA category which is a greater difference than "all firearms". I often use the terms: Some, many, few and uncounted as to prevent any generalization of inclusiveness.
Personally, i believe there are too many nuts and hidden terrorist running around our country to allow them to purchase fully automatic weapons or bumpstocks over the counter. What's next freedom of hand grenades and claymores?

I value all of your opinions and agree with many, but I believe the majority of public opinion and political priorities are against us at this point in time.
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Old July 23, 2019, 12:24   #146
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"Some" referring to those in the NFA category which is a greater difference than "all firearms". I often use the terms: Some, many, few and uncounted as to prevent any generalization of inclusiveness.
Personally, i believe there are too many nuts and hidden terrorist running around our country to allow them to purchase fully automatic weapons or bumpstocks over the counter. What's next freedom of hand grenades and claymores?

I value all of your opinions and agree with many, but I believe the majority of public opinion and political priorities are against us at this point in time.
And this has always been the line Dak

Back in the late 90s the Subguns board had a poster like you that went under the moniker "Major Nelson"
He was a mouthy Gun Control advocate rattle trapping on regarding Nuclear tipped RPGs, other retarded crap where he referred to pro RKBA peoples as Night Riders like the Klan

I'm seeing quite a bit of the Major in you in this reveal

MGs are not a problem item
nether are suppressors
what criminal would really carry a stocked pistol
better yet, what criminal purpose is there for a smoothbored single shot pistol like an H&R .410 Handygun ?

Here's the Crux of the matter
in 1934 the Federals maintained there was no individual RKBA so it was perfectly lawful to use a tax to limit citizens access to firearms by applying one
You seem to think this is an acceptable situation under the US Constitution
It's simply not and particularly so since Heller

Sorry bro, you can't Tax Rights particularly to limit access to said Rights
get it yet ?

consider the suppressor situation
bunch of clowns are arguing that Suppressors are not "Firearms"
sorry that's wrong, the 34' NFA itself declared them as Firearms and that was expanded in the 80s to include even individual sub components

Guys here, you included argue "bump stocks" are not firearms
that's incorrect, DOJ has now declared them as firearms
specifically post sample NFA firearms
it's a linear progression from the post GCA 68' era where ATF started viewing parts as MGs
That started with the M1 Carbine situation Dak
Carbine receivers were identical whether M1 or M2 other than how they were marked. The bureau then declared a combination of the M2 select fire parts a NFA regulated firearm regardless of whether there was a receiver present.
Later the "logic" expanded to include DIAS and after that slotted Uzi SMg bolts. KG9 bolts were allowed to be sold as a "replacement part" but eventually even that was eliminated
obviously none of these parts are actual "firearms" however under ruling and regulation they certainly are

those arguing otherwise have their fat heads way all up in one another's assholes

posted many times the only way to fight all this is the regulatory basis, Wilson's unconstitutional excise tax act on arms
again if it's unlawful to tax the right to Vote, Worship or speak freely you can not lawfully tax arms.

Now let's go back to your Grenade fantasy...
When did possession of a Grenade become regulated really ?
pretty recently for many of us...1968 under the GCA
prior to that Destructive Devices didn't exist
yuppers you could buy, own and shoot 20mm anti tank guns with HE
mortars with HE
Cannon with HE
etc
yes even Grenades
The only regulations were largely transport of the HE

even in the 70s rural hardware stores had Dynamite, TNT
farmers used it regularly Dak
I was learning how to blast before I was even a teenager
used to be most farmers up here had a crate of dynamite in the Barn or Machine shed

How often was it criminally misused
not often at all, just another damn' tool in the box that your type seems all scared of
Ball Peen hammers are used to murder up far more folks every year than Dynamite has been for the last likely hundred
Should we petition Congress Nelson ?

Yes there are wackaloons out there everywhere but you are into what I term as Lowest Denomenator Legislating.
basically because an extremely small fraction of bad actors exist you feel it's good policy to treat EVERYONE as a potential Idiot and/or Threat
that Progressive mindset just pisses me off, always has Dak

My thing is if you let your feelings allow you to stomp on the 2nd will you resist when they go after faith or speech ?
Understand when you shit on the 2nd it affects the entire Bill of Rights buddy
what applies to one equally applies the rest. In short it's not merely RKBA, you are establishing precedent to slowly strip away all freedoms.

You want to do your shit Constitutionally then Fine
get out and support a repeal of the Second Amendment or otherwise support a repeal of excise taxes applied against it.

That's the feet of clay in firearms regulation
Scalia was one serious piece of shit during Heller
his version was RKBA was a highly limited right
the problem is that folks have been fighting the wrong battle for decades
if RKBA is truly individual it's not a taxable thing
sans that taxation element there can be no Federal regulation Period

as to State regulation, that's a wild card
but not really...
Could say Alabama institute Slavery at the State level ?
Could California begin taxing folks for being Christian...
and no the Pot legalization situation is way different as it to is based in IRS code and regulation and affects something not an enumerated Right

It's not nearly as simple as you see it and hiding, trying to be low key in these matters never works
in the end you become just another easy target for your opposition
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Old July 23, 2019, 13:22   #147
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"Some" referring to those in the NFA category which is a greater difference than "all firearms". I often use the terms: Some, many, few and uncounted as to prevent any generalization of inclusiveness.
Personally, i believe there are too many nuts and hidden terrorist running around our country to allow them to purchase fully automatic weapons or bumpstocks over the counter. What's next freedom of hand grenades and claymores?

I value all of your opinions and agree with many, but I believe the majority of public opinion and political priorities are against us at this point in time.
What’s the practical difference between an an M4 and a semi-auto clone? Or even a pump action 12 gauge turkey gun loaded with #4 buck shot? I guarantee you that a bad guy could do plenty of harm with those - and many already have. If your measure of how free we should be stops at anything potentially dangerous, then we really should be limited to pepper spray.
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Old July 23, 2019, 14:22   #148
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What’s the practical difference between an an M4 and a semi-auto clone? Or even a pump action 12 gauge turkey gun loaded with #4 buck shot? I guarantee you that a bad guy could do plenty of harm with those - and many already have. If your measure of how free we should be stops at anything potentially dangerous, then we really should be limited to pepper spray.
exactly Goon

truth is a semi AR is just as effective as the select fire variants
same is true even more so of FALs and other .308 range semi autos
it takes a bit of experience to run full auto in most firearms outside of outliers such as the American 180 .22 rimfire MG where even a novice can do fairly well with them.

MGs were not regulated because of criminal use
most of the gangland use was with guns stolen from police or National Guard Armories
Dak keeps pushing his Hollywood based agenda that MGs were commonly in the hands of the criminal element which is non factual
Initially the NFA was all about regulating ALL firearms that measured less than 26"'s overall, what was seen as "concealable on one's person"

yeah, that was the actual problem, handguns however Congress ended up accepting that regulation of them was a non starter
Hell back then newspapers gave pistols away to kids for selling the most subscriptions

Note as well the NFA had no exemptions for antiques
the law would have applied to flint locks from the Revolutionary War
yes during the 34' Amnesty a number of cap and ball guns were registered

Actually I don't see Dak as the enemy just an ignorant misinformed type which makes him even more dangerous than Schumer actually is
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Old July 23, 2019, 18:37   #149
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I read the heartbreak of the OP and I tried to read the rest of this thread but it pisses me off so much I just couldn't finish it.

It is so so sad. My heart goes out to yall in NZ brother.

To Hell with ALL anti-gunners!

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Old July 23, 2019, 18:39   #150
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What’s the practical difference between an an M4 and a semi-auto clone? Or even a pump action 12 gauge turkey gun loaded with #4 buck shot? I guarantee you that a bad guy could do plenty of harm with those - and many already have. If your measure of how free we should be stops at anything potentially dangerous, then we really should be limited to pepper spray.
I assure you a fully automatic weapon or a bump stock will create more casualties in less time before the perp is taken out.
Here is a question for you: Since 1934 how many NFA owners have been charged with homicide using their registered weapons?
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