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Old July 10, 2019, 12:54   #1
Meat-Hook
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Ejecter kicks top round out of magazines.

With the bolt locked to the rear as though you fired the last shot in a magazine then reload a fresh magazine into the magazine well.

When I snap a magazine in the magazine into the well, what appears to be the ejecter pushes down on the top round of the magazine.

It either kicks the top round out of the magazine completely, or partially does it by tilting the round at a 45 degree angle.

Needless to say, if I was to release the bolt it would cause an immediate jam.

This is a DS Arms, 18" barrel, Paratrooper.

It doesn't matter if there is 2 rounds in the magazine or 20 rounds, it keeps doing it.

magazine after magazine. 7 Israeli magazines and 1 non-israeli magazine. So far.

This is so frustrating.

What is causing this??

what is the cure??
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Old July 10, 2019, 13:57   #2
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Did this just start or has it always done that? Brand new rifle or bought used?

Can you post a picture of the ejection block (cover off bolt removed) My guess is that the ejection block is crooked and causing this to happen, again just a guess.
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Old July 10, 2019, 18:56   #3
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Mr. Hook, I have to say I'm both puzzled by and in admiration of you. A member since 2000, Gold contributor, under 200 posts. A real head scratcher.

Your rifle's problem is interesting and yes, pictures would be a great help.
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Old July 10, 2019, 20:39   #4
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Your problem is caused by the bolt hold open not the ejector. I had a riFAL that did this. The fix is to replace the bolt hold open or straighten the forward pointing bit at the top of the hold open.
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Old July 12, 2019, 11:43   #5
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1911Ron:

This is a new problem.

The rifle was sent to me new from DSArms.

I wanted to post pics before I even made this thread. However, my Photobucket account was locked like everyone elses. I don't have a replacement as yet.

The computer I use now is an Apple.

When I tried to download pics/video, my Apple rejected it saying my camera was not compatible with this PC.

of course it would.
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Old July 12, 2019, 12:01   #6
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HKshooter:

I will give you the ultra-short version of this extremely long, never ending, high blood pressure saga.

1. Back in the year 2000, I was living in North Korea (California). In December of 1999 gun owners in California were perfectly legal to own certain firearms. At the stoke of midnight in 1999/January 2000 all gun owners were now instantly Felons. I won't be chatting about an FAL rifle I was not in possession of. So that killed my desire for chatting. A lot.

2. I had to keep my guns out of state for 11 years for doing absolutely nothing wrong. When I finally was able to flee that nightmare and embrace my babies in my arms again, it was costing me $500 per year to keep them safe.

As soon as turned in my California license plates/drivers license and was given a paper print out for my brand new Nevada drivers license, I raced to the FFL.

I told the FFL that I want to order an FAL Paratrooper as this was my go-to, dream rifle. He was extremely hesitant to place the order based just on the DMV paper print out. I convinced him to place the order when I told him it will take DSArms a month to make it/ship it. By then I will definitely have my actual DL.

3. When it arrived, I took it out and fired it, sometimes it was okay, but then it was malfunction after malfunction. Sent it back to DSArms for 2 years? They got tired of it and sent it back saying:

"Theres nothing wrong with your rifle".

I took it out to BLM land to test fire it. When I pulled the trigger, it exploded in my face. Im lucky I have enough eye sight to be typing this.http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357876
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Old July 12, 2019, 12:22   #7
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I gather up the parts and twisted metal, boxed it up, and sent it back to them. After some wrangling, they agreed to send me a new rifle. Totally different serial number.

What could go wrong?

When it arrived, I was ecstatic. I took it out the box, fondled it, did basic functions checks.I inserted a magazine. But then, I tried to release it.

Completely stuck and would not release. I thought this is completely impossible. Another brand new rifle malfunctioning right out the box. This can't be true. This time I said F*** DSA and shipped it to Gunplumber. He got the magazine out And also had to hand fit several magazines I had sent so that they would function in the rifle.

Got the rifle back and then other malfunctions started to appear. I sent it to local gunsmiths in my area for fixing. No dice.

At the time of this post, I got this rifle back a few days ago. The gunsmith kept it in his shop for 2 solid, entire years. He finally, in a roundabout way, admitted he couldn't fix it and gave it back.

So here I am.

Still up the river with no paddles.

This rifle has spent 90% of its life in shops.

My dream rifle(s) have been nothing but nightmares and high blood pressure.

This is some of the reasons why you are seeing a low post count.
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Old July 12, 2019, 12:25   #8
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HenryIV:

Thank you so much!!

of course I don't know how to do this so I have to have someone fix it for me.

Thanks again.
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Old July 12, 2019, 13:36   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat-Hook View Post
HKshooter:

I will give you the ultra-short version of this extremely long, never ending, high blood pressure saga.

1. Back in the year 2000, I was living in North Korea (California). In December of 1999 gun owners in California were perfectly legal to own certain firearms. At the stoke of midnight in 1999/January 2000 all gun owners were now instantly Felons. I won't be chatting about an FAL rifle I was not in possession of. So that killed my desire for chatting. A lot.

2. I had to keep my guns out of state for 11 years for doing absolutely nothing wrong. When I finally was able to flee that nightmare and embrace my babies in my arms again, it was costing me $500 per year to keep them safe.

As soon as turned in my California license plates/drivers license and was given a paper print out for my brand new Nevada drivers license, I raced to the FFL.

I told the FFL that I want to order an FAL Paratrooper as this was my go-to, dream rifle. He was extremely hesitant to place the order based just on the DMV paper print out. I convinced him to place the order when I told him it will take DSArms a month to make it/ship it. By then I will definitely have my actual DL.

3. When it arrived, I took it out and fired it, sometimes it was okay, but then it was malfunction after malfunction. Sent it back to DSArms for 2 years? They got tired of it and sent it back saying:

"Theres nothing wrong with your rifle".

I took it out to BLM land to test fire it. When I pulled the trigger, it exploded in my face. Im lucky I have enough eye sight to be typing this.http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat-Hook View Post
I gather up the parts and twisted metal, boxed it up, and sent it back to them. After some wrangling, they agreed to send me a new rifle. Totally different serial number.

What could go wrong?

When it arrived, I was ecstatic. I took it out the box, fondled it, did basic functions checks.I inserted a magazine. But then, I tried to release it.

Completely stuck and would not release. I thought this is completely impossible. Another brand new rifle malfunctioning right out the box. This can't be true. This time I said F*** DSA and shipped it to Gunplumber. He got the magazine out And also had to hand fit several magazines I had sent so that they would function in the rifle.

Got the rifle back and then other malfunctions started to appear. I sent it to local gunsmiths in my area for fixing. No dice.

At the time of this post, I got this rifle back a few days ago. The gunsmith kept it in his shop for 2 solid, entire years. He finally, in a roundabout way, admitted he couldn't fix it and gave it back.

So here I am.

Still up the river with no paddles.

This rifle has spent 90% of its life in shops.

My dream rifle(s) have been nothing but nightmares and high blood pressure.

This is some of the reasons why you are seeing a low post count.
That's a heck of a tale, sorry for your troubles.
The second most glaring part of your story that I cannot get past is Mark sent you a rifle that didn't work. I don't know if there are details that are not included here or what but my feeling is if Mark fixed the mag issue for you he'd have surely made sure it ran. But it sounds like you had issues right out of the gate after that repair? Mark is human but he has a sharp eye for detail and would certainly have brought an issue as obvious as a bent or broken bolt stop to your attention as well as any operation issues he may have found while testing.
My best suggestion is to return it to Mark for evaluation and repair.
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Old July 12, 2019, 17:45   #10
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Send it to Gunplumber and have him fix it right.
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Old July 13, 2019, 15:58   #11
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"That's a heck of a tale, sorry for your troubles.
The second most glaring part of your story that I cannot get past is Mark sent you a rifle that didn't work. I don't know if there are details that are not included here or what but my feeling is if Mark fixed the mag issue for you he'd have surely made sure it ran. But it sounds like you had issues right out of the gate after that repair? Mark is human but he has a sharp eye for detail and would certainly have brought an issue as obvious as a bent or broken bolt stop to your attention as well as any operation issues he may have found while testing.
My best suggestion is to return it to Mark for evaluation and repair."
----
HKshooter:

Let me clarify.

Mark did not send me back a rifle that didn't work as I never got to fire a single round out of it to begin with.

I took it out of it box brand new. As soon as that magazine got stuck in the well, I just immediately boxed it up and shipped it to him.

AFTER, I got it back and was finally able to insert and remove the magazine freely, I was finally able to take it out to BLM land and fire its first shots.

Thats when the gates of hell began to slowly open on this rifle.
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Old July 13, 2019, 16:09   #12
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Send it to Graham and get him to sort it out.

So if you leave the bolt closed and insert a mag then charge it using the handle it's fine? This only occurs with the bolt back?
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Old July 13, 2019, 16:28   #13
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Originally Posted by 1911Ron View Post
Send it to Gunplumber and have him fix it right.
------
Im going to try one last gunsmith in my area who "allegedly" works on FALs.

Given everything that's happened, Ill believe it when I see it.

The reason Im not sending it to Mark right away, is because shipping guns here is Hell.

Again Im giving you the short version of this saga which is the size and depth of War & Peace.

When I tried to ship it to Mark (years ago), the 19 year old female standing behind the counter, who knows nothing about guns----let alone gun laws-----refused to ship the gun to Mark unless I gave her a Federal Firearms License (or copy of one) in order to ship it. Mark had to text me his FFL # before they would ship it.

I told this kid there was no such law. Utterly refused to believe it.

I even wrote to ATF and have a letter from their Chief stating as such. If I had an ability to post pics right now, I would post the ATF letter right now.

That was female, and incident #1.

This obstruction by mainly females behind counters has gone on for years.

My heart drops and I start to get ulcers when I walk into a shipping facility to ship guns and see a female behind the counter. I say to myself:

"Here we go".

The last time I tried to ship a gun, the (middle-aged?elderly) female behind the counter refused to ship it unless I paid $400 a shipping fee. That argument lasted 30-45 minutes. Ive had a running battle over shipping guns now for 7 years with her.

These are all abbreviated/shortened versions of these incidents.

Multiple different locations, multiple different females. Doesn't matter.

Some emplee started a rumor that you need to have a copy of an FFL to ship guns. That rumor spread and now they all seem to believe it without any legal basis or confirmation.

Then of course there's stores that sell ammo: Female behind the counter:
"YOU CANT BUY AMMO WITHOUT GIVING US YOUR DRIVERSE LICENSE"!!!!

(face-palm), Here we go again. Hey Sweetie, take a look at the ATF letter from their Chief Lawyer.

NO----I----DONT!!!

again, multiple different locations, multiple different cashiers. Same story.

And now,....

Its alcohol!

YOU CANT BUY ALCOHOL WITHOUT GIVING US YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE"!!

((which they scan into their data bases. And share/pass on/ track you forever).

No Sweetie,... I don't need to surrender my DL to buy booze.

In conclusion,

If this last attempt doesn't pan out, then off to Mark she goes.
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Old July 13, 2019, 16:34   #14
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Originally Posted by 1911Ron View Post
Did this just start or has it always done that? Brand new rifle or bought used?

Can you post a picture of the ejection block (cover off bolt removed) My guess is that the ejection block is crooked and causing this to happen, again just a guess.
-------
would a crooked ejection block cause cycling problems (FTF/FTE, etc, etc) in a rifle or just effect this current problem??
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Old July 13, 2019, 16:39   #15
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Send it to Graham and get him to sort it out.

So if you leave the bolt closed and insert a mag then charge it using the handle it's fine? This only occurs with the bolt back?
As soon as I insert the mag--with the bolt closed--it still kicks out the top round.
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Old July 13, 2019, 16:48   #16
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Holy crap!

My story is pretty much the exact same with California.
Keeping all my weapons in Nevada for a few years all the way down to buying a DSA para the FIRST thing after getting my Idaho license.

I would suggest just mailing it back to DSA with a notice from your lawyer that you are going to be taking them to court unless they give your money back.

The nightmares of the gun exploding keep you up, haven't been able to work, creating strife in the home.
A cool Million would help transition your life into a more peaceful place.


Seriously,
Good luck though. Sorry to hear you've had all the trouble.
As for mailing stuff. I mark everything insured as car parts!
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Old July 13, 2019, 16:50   #17
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Originally Posted by Meat-Hook View Post
As soon as I insert the mag--with the bolt closed--it still kicks out the top round.
Have you taken off the dust cover and inserted a mag and tried to see how this is happening? I'm assuming you do have some mechanical aptitude. If it was having issues with the mag insertion some of the issue could have been from the ejector block misaligned. But I would have thought Graham would have spotted. Don't give up and sorry you are having issues.
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Old July 13, 2019, 21:23   #18
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Originally Posted by meltblown View Post
Have you taken off the dust cover and inserted a mag and tried to see how this is happening? I'm assuming you do have some mechanical aptitude. If it was having issues with the mag insertion some of the issue could have been from the ejector block misaligned. But I would have thought Graham would have spotted. Don't give up and sorry you are having issues.
Problem is he never shipped it to Mark, he tried but had nothing but hassles trying to ship it.
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Old July 14, 2019, 00:50   #19
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Take the thing apart and box it up (good and tight). Don't tell them it's a gun. Send it to ARS. If they ask, tell them it's a micro-wave oven or an antique lightning rod.
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Old July 14, 2019, 09:10   #20
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Take the thing apart and box it up (good and tight). Don't tell them it's a gun. Send it to ARS. If they ask, tell them it's a micro-wave oven or an antique lightning rod.
Machine parts.
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Old July 14, 2019, 14:58   #21
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Holy crap!

My story is pretty much the exact same with California.
Keeping all my weapons in Nevada for a few years all the way down to buying a DSA para the FIRST thing after getting my Idaho license.

I would suggest just mailing it back to DSA with a notice from your lawyer that you are going to be taking them to court unless they give your money back.

The nightmares of the gun exploding keep you up, haven't been able to work, creating strife in the home.
A cool Million would help transition your life into a more peaceful place.


Seriously,
Good luck though. Sorry to hear you've had all the trouble.
As for mailing stuff. I mark everything insured as car parts!
----
Thanks Redoubt.
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Old July 14, 2019, 15:05   #22
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Have you taken off the dust cover and inserted a mag and tried to see how this is happening? I'm assuming you do have some mechanical aptitude. If it was having issues with the mag insertion some of the issue could have been from the ejector block misaligned. But I would have thought Graham would have spotted. Don't give up and sorry you are having issues.
------
Meltblown,

I have zero mechanical aptitude. A chimp has probably more knowledge and talent than I.

I removed the dust cover ( and bolt carrier group).

I inserted a magazine and its still doing it.

This was not an issue when I sent the rifle to Arizona (years ago). So mark never had a chance to address this issue because it never existed at that time.

This is a somewhat/relatively new problem.
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Old July 14, 2019, 15:33   #23
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Originally Posted by Illurian00 View Post
Take the thing apart and box it up (good and tight). Don't tell them it's a gun. Send it to ARS. If they ask, tell them it's a micro-wave oven or an antique lightning rod.
----------
Illurion00,

Believe me, Ive toyed with that idea many times.

Unfortunately its too late. They all know me know now and every time I walk through the door they associate me with guns.

Once when I was walking into a facility, I looked through the glass door as I was approaching. I lip read female #1 behind the counter turn towards female#2 to alert her, and say something like: "Here he comes with another gun".

plus I ship my guns in gun cases for protection. They know the shape of a gun case by now.

Also,...............

per ATF its a violation? if you mark the box as containing a firearm and/or lie about its contents. I have my ATF letter in front of me. let me quote:

"A common or contract carrier MUST be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the contract carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition,"

(the above statement ATF has underlined in black^^^)

"prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm, and requires written acknowledgment of receipt".

18 USC. 922(a)(2)(A). 922(a)(5). and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31

(the word "MUST" in caps is my emphasis).
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Old July 14, 2019, 15:41   #24
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BTW,...

I just wanted to thank all of you for your support and input.

I appreciate it.
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Old July 14, 2019, 16:07   #25
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------
Meltblown,

I have zero mechanical aptitude. A chimp has probably more knowledge and talent than I.

I removed the dust cover ( and bolt carrier group).

I inserted a magazine and its still doing it.

This was not an issue when I sent the rifle to Arizona (years ago). So mark never had a chance to address this issue because it never existed at that time.

This is a somewhat/relatively new problem.

Did you look inside as you inserted the front of the mag in and rocked it into place to see what was happening?
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Old July 14, 2019, 23:28   #26
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"Believe me, Ive toyed with that idea many times.

Unfortunately its too late. They all know me know now and every time I walk through the door they associate me with guns.

Once when I was walking into a facility, I looked through the glass door as I was approaching. I lip read female #1 behind the counter turn towards female#2 to alert her, and say something like: "Here he comes with another gun".

plus I ship my guns in gun cases for protection. They know the shape of a gun case by now."

I get the impression your a very stubborn fellow. You could have avoided all this mess if no one had known what you were shipping to begin w/.
Shipping in a gun case (really ?), says two things; please hassle me when I show up at the shipping counter. That's what double walled corrugated cardboard is for w/ high density foam at critical points.
The second thing it says is : 'steal me'.

Now after blabbing all over the interest net everyone in the whole world knows whats in the box.
Get a straw person to walk the box into the shipper. If asked they can say it's curtain rods, or sumpin'. Do not address to 'ACME & FIREARMS & MUNITIONS' (duh !)
Or you might be able to drive it to Mr. Graham. I'm convinced the average gunsmith is lost at sea when it comes to something like an FA&L.
The only working smith in this area was known for his work on handguns, but gave up working on them because of the 'paper work' in this state and shake down visits from the Fed & state authorities. My long winded point is, as good as he is/was w/ handguns, most rifles & shotguns, I doubt he would have even touched an FA&L, 'fud' that he is.
If I may, in future, consider the benefits of discretion.
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Old July 15, 2019, 11:06   #27
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If you split it and package it in a non typical long box your experience may be different.

I must say that at this point it sounds like you are entertaining more excuses to NOT have the gun repaired than you are accepting ideas to get it repaired. You do have a rifle, right? Still havent seen pics yet.
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Old July 15, 2019, 12:16   #28
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If you split it and package it in a non typical long box your experience may be different.

I must say that at this point it sounds like you are entertaining more excuses to NOT have the gun repaired than you are accepting ideas to get it repaired. You do have a rifle, right? Still havent seen pics yet.
This ^
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Old July 18, 2019, 16:32   #29
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One thing you can try/visually examine, is to load one round in a mag, remove your top cover, lock your bolt to the rear and watch as you rock in the mag to see if it drags on or makes contact with the tab on the bolt hold open. I've had two DSA bolt hold opens that were a bit long in the tooth. What you described is what I experienced too. I took a jewel file and removed a bit of material from the tab on the bolt hold open. This worked for me on milsurp mags. If you try this just be patient and don't remove too much material from the tab or you will end up with a bolt hold open that doesn't hold open the bolt after the last round is fired. Also you can try loading two rounds to see if this happens on the L or R side of the magazine (s). This might not be your issue at all, but it's worth some time to see. If you try this, perhaps do it outside with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction in case the bolt/carrier slams closed.
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Old July 23, 2019, 19:21   #30
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My DSA does the same thing, but it only if the top round is on the right side of the magazine. It will(not always) hit the rear of the cartridge just enough to make the front end pop up at a high angle, causing a jam, or like the OP, completely out either causing a jam or a double feed.
I haven't taken the time to address it yet but if Mark or some other knowledgeable member has a spec. on the length of protrusion, that would be great.
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Old August 05, 2019, 16:08   #31
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quick update.

Couple weeks ago I dropped off the rifle at the gunsmiths with a brand new DSArms wide foot bolt hold open to be installed.

I gave him a demonstration as to what the problem is. He said, "It looks like the ejector that's doing it".

Hopefully this problem can be resolved.

His fellow gunsmith said, check back in 5 weeks.

so the waiting game begins.
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Old August 05, 2019, 16:14   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illurian00 View Post
This ^
--------------
"I must say that at this point it sounds like you are entertaining more excuses to NOT have the gun repaired."

This rifle has spent at least 70% of its life span inside gunshops with gunsmiths waiting to be repaired.

year after year.
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Old August 06, 2019, 12:03   #33
idsubgun
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Take it to the Post Office and ship it. You can ship long guns through the Post office, and then you don't have to deal with FedEx, UPS, shipping places in general.
If the Post Office gives you grief, ask for the Postmaster, and show him/her the regulation

And never claim it's machine parts. Tell them exactly what it is and insure for full value. If you claim machine parts and it gets lost or damaged, you'll need proof of what it is and proof of value before they pay on a claim. If you didn't declare it's a firearm, they will tell you to shove your claim up your a$$. They don't have to pay a dime because Federal law says you must state it's a firearm when shipping through any carrier.


"A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun."
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]


https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...postal-service

"A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt."

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]


https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...ntract-carrier


Postal regulations:

"432.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing."


https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm
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Old August 20, 2019, 07:49   #34
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For all those troubles I think I would have DRIVEN the 1 state over by now to hand deliver the thing to Mark.

However, your problem is with DSA. That's who you should have had not only warranty, but legal issues with.
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