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Old May 13, 2020, 13:47   #51
Riversidesports
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Originally Posted by Abominog View Post
Notice that most of the surplus rifles imported even most recently are no later than 1970s. Well 1980 was forty years ago, and some of that warehoused stuff that was 2nd line has been sitting for 20+ years, meaning it’s cyclic and countries are just about ready to surplus that stuff.

The problems as stated are UN strong arm tactics and US embargoes.

Perhaps the greatest problem is the armchair LtCOL sitting in Zoomboland who now has the internet to see what stuff sells for. LtCOL isn’t very bright though and doesn’t understand cost of distribution, risk, and time value of money. So LtCOL from Zoomboland thinks his surplus is worth 80% of retail, and as a result it sits there.
Here's another story you will likely enjoy:

Mid 90s a great old buddy of mine was Randy Kovisto of Finnbear International. I had bone business with Randy since the 70s
anyways Randy was one of the first characters to import out of the Soviet Union when trade barriers started to loosen up, guy was bringing in all manner of surplus bits, even had Makhail Klashnikov as a guest behind his tables at several midwestern shows

Randy's sideline was Real History tours in the Russias, fat old bastard was always on me to join up as a "guide" of sorts, well his tours were pretty shaky business. Lot of crazy crap involving former Soviet bases
So one show Kovisto is all a buzz. Pulls out an envelope full of photos

Old half rotted crates of Winchester M1895 muskets, others of S&W #3 Russian models. These had been all reworked years ago and warehoused. The Soviets never destroyed really anything you know
I had been on Kovisto to keep his eyes peeled for both
See, thousands of those rifles & pistols had been in Imperial service at the time of the Revolution, they just vanished into a Black Hole of sorts

Now some of the #3s had ended up in Eastern Block Warsaw Pact Nations early on as Police issue, some 1895 Winchesters were sent to Siberia for Hunting but there has never been any real export

Problem was the General in charge of that particular stockpile was traveled enough to know their value in the West, he wanted a 100%+ of all that with delivery to the Finnish border

Well he wouldn't budge and it was all or nothing
over two thousand #3s, nearly 1000 Winchester
all Soviet era rebuilds at well over a grand each.
There was just NO Meat on the Bone so to speak

Here's the thing friend, those guns are still in the Russias
that's right, they never left
they were offered under similar terms to brokers in Germany and the UK, nobody wanted them at their cost so there they sit.

Another contact tells me of rather large stockpiles in the Russias of Soviet rebuilt Mauser Broomhandles that have never been offered to Arms Brokers
Why ?
Well the Chinese saturated that market in the early 90s
It just made no sense to even try to sell them when the Chinese were selling utter trash for like ten bucks a pistol
yeah, that's how cheap they were
So there those sit in cosmo too
My Russian picker claims we could likely get into them around the $800USD range in quantity which is still a tall number when you take into account shipping and marketing, etc costs more over overcoming the current Trade embargos.

One of the better guys to follow currently is Bob Bowman
He's a former Minnesotan who moved to Florida
Bob tries to explain his problems and costs as a kit importer
AKs for example now cost him at least a couple hundred
no real meat on the bone at all
again as you and I both noted this is due to the web and folks overseas seeing what Americans are willing to pay

I spent a fair share of life as a middle man
I am the character who locates things and extracts a finders percentage for my efforts. I let others invest their money in the rest of it as the safe way to still be part of the import biz

I have backed away from quite a bit of it just in the last decade
I know where there's a small stockpile of beater Dutch AR10s in Afrika
thing is that nation is under a damn' Embargo
pretty reasonable for roughly 200 rifles but I'm not going to play with it
some slick dick drags them into say Ethiopia for export and gets popped, I'm likely to end up indicted in some bogus conspiracy at the Federal level
nope, not worth the potential bullshit
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Old May 13, 2020, 21:54   #52
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want funny friend:

up into the early 80s it was tough to give a Nagant away
same with Arisakas and Carcanos
When I first started doing shows in the mid 70s dealers would give me that junk...yeah FREE

Conversely back then a bring back chicom SKS was an easy grand in SGN

the Nagants in America back then were mostly Westinghouse or Remington made guns, super quality but nobody wanted them
Most were close to new
What happened is after the Commies took Russia over no more contract guns were delivered from America. Quite a few were substitute standard for training our guys in WWI, some Doughboys were even sent to the trenches with a Nagant. Have a photo of one great Uncle in France with a Nagant
He hated that rifle

Post War the government sold new ones they had in storage, the used stuff went to Bannermans who ended up with some new ones too
by the late 80s there was a new generation, the guns were cheap as was the fodder so they became popular with new shooters
America bought a lot of nagant's and ross rifles for training. They were NEVER carried by us troops in france into the trenches. When in French sectors tethered to French forces French weapons were the norm. Same for when assigned to brit units - SMLE's were the norm. When pershing pushed and got an actual AEF under American command it was 03's and M1917's in the field. There was no ammunition support for anything other than standard US , Brit or French small arms for combat use in france. What happened in Russia was totally different in the mission there to "save" supplies from Bolsheviks.
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Old May 14, 2020, 14:03   #53
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America bought a lot of nagant's and ross rifles for training. They were NEVER carried by us troops in france into the trenches. When in French sectors tethered to French forces French weapons were the norm. Same for when assigned to brit units - SMLE's were the norm. When pershing pushed and got an actual AEF under American command it was 03's and M1917's in the field. There was no ammunition support for anything other than standard US , Brit or French small arms for combat use in france. What happened in Russia was totally different in the mission there to "save" supplies from Bolsheviks.
So you suppose that pic may be from our WWI incursion into the Russias ?
That actually makes sense gew98
while he never claimed to play a role in that forgotten campaign, just talked about France what you are saying is logical
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Old May 14, 2020, 16:25   #54
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So you suppose that pic may be from our WWI incursion into the Russias ?
That actually makes sense gew98
while he never claimed to play a role in that forgotten campaign, just talked about France what you are saying is logical
I was thinking that they had some made in 30-06, but not according to this article:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/us-mosin-nagants.asp

Not so much for training as much as a gov bailout, but at the beginning of the war we had a very small, underdeveloped military....

Place to start.
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Old May 15, 2020, 00:27   #55
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I was thinking that they had some made in 30-06, but not according to this article:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/us-mosin-nagants.asp

Not so much for training as much as a gov bailout, but at the beginning of the war we had a very small, underdeveloped military....

Place to start.
well yes & no
as the article mentions a mess of them were converted by Bannermans to 30-06

They did a mess of insane conversions
.50-70 rolling blocks to 30-06
Winchester Lee Navy rifles to .30-40 with Krag Carbine barrels
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Old May 15, 2020, 08:25   #56
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Yeah, no Mosins were used by the AEF in France. It was strickly state-side training use or up in Archangel (not Siberia). We did use a variety of other weapons in France though, from the US options mentioned to Berthiers and Enfields. Even a few Krags made it over.
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Old May 16, 2020, 08:14   #57
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I was thinking that they had some made in 30-06,
Issue a garden-variety Bubba a challenge and one will rise up to it.
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Old May 16, 2020, 10:16   #58
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My first SKS was a Pristine (As NEW/unIssued ) T series 1983 Mfgr. Yugo M59/66A1 (Blonde Furniture) painstakingly hand picked by me from a lot of 13 (Mine was one of a group of 3 with consecutive serial #s ) and as a follow up I purchased an Arsenal 26 Chinese Paratrooper SKS (made in 1966) and in future I would like either an Albanian SKS (That does not look like it was dragged down the street behind a kid on a skateboard ) or a 1949 Russian Tula SKS
Gator , there is no such thing as a "Paratrooper sks ". That was the invention of us marketing. If your receiver is 66 vintage it's been chopped down to goofy "para" length for import sales.
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1) Culture builds upon the past
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4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

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Old May 16, 2020, 10:22   #59
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Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
So you suppose that pic may be from our WWI incursion into the Russias ?
That actually makes sense gew98
while he never claimed to play a role in that forgotten campaign, just talked about France what you are saying is logical
Your man could have been in france and diverted to the Russian expedition.... there was no pussy in the expedition...but france ...well hell you know.
There are pictures of US troops in England with Krags stacked before them as some troops went to Blighty before france in small amounts. You can bet those krags never saw any trench service.
Now the germans and Austrians used gobs of captured Mosins in reserve formations...and many of those reserve formations were in the fight. Austrians even produced bayonets for the mosins and rebarreled some for 8x50 austrian caliber.
German WW1 made 7,62x54R is rather rare ammo today , but they made a wad of it then as well as 8x50 lebel for the captured French rifles they used in rear area units.
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The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
Winston Churchill

1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
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Old May 16, 2020, 10:24   #60
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The generation that collected this stuff is dying out, and the next one only cares about ARs and Glocks.

ARs and Glocks are just gateway guns to the good stuff.
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Old May 19, 2020, 15:52   #61
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Ive prob owned two dozen or so in the last 20 years and Im down to three now (which I plan on hanging onto).
Me too. I've had 30 or so various collectible SKS's up until just a few years ago; sold most of them them off. Just kinda lost interest in "collecting" guns for collecting's sake. I still have 7: SKS-D, SKS-M, Albanian, Romanian, NA Cowboys Companion, unpapered Vietnam Chinese bringback, and a Chinese bubba that I fiddle around with. Likely gonna sell all of them before long except the M, Romanian, and bubba.

HR
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Old May 19, 2020, 16:20   #62
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Me too. I've had 30 or so various collectible SKS's up until just a few years ago; sold most of them them off. Just kinda lost interest in "collecting" guns for collecting's sake. I still have 7: SKS-D, SKS-M, Albanian, Romanian, NA Cowboys Companion, unpapered Vietnam Chinese bringback, and a Chinese bubba that I fiddle around with. Likely gonna sell all of them before long except the M, Romanian, and bubba.

HR
I like my SKS-M too. I've had it a long time, bought before any of my Kalashnikovs. I don't think I'd sell mine either.

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Old May 19, 2020, 21:03   #63
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Gator , there is no such thing as a "Paratrooper sks ". That was the invention of us marketing. If your receiver is 66 vintage it's been chopped down to goofy "para" length for import sales.
Next thing you will say that tanker K43 with 16" barrel, 20 round magazine, tactical handguard with vertical grip, and AR buttstock is not ultra rare special ops factory made.
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Old May 19, 2020, 23:03   #64
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Next thing you will say that tanker K43 with 16" barrel, 20 round magazine, tactical handguard with vertical grip, and AR buttstock is not ultra rare special ops factory made.
No kidding , The first Doofuses to Cut them Down were in Texas (Shade Tree Mechanic Style ) then it caught on and the Chinese caught wind of it and started doing it at the arsenal /Mfg facilities in China . and who woulda thunk it (That they were a hit ) that they would sell a lotta them (Including D&M models) in Para Configuration . But if you have another name than Paratrooper that is as commonly used for these let me know as I've only seen them described as such . and BTW the Chinese Para SKS variants are 20-30% more valuable than the Standard length SKS Carbines .
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Old May 19, 2020, 23:05   #65
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Gator , there is no such thing as a "Paratrooper sks ". That was the invention of us marketing. If your receiver is 66 vintage it's been chopped down to goofy "para" length for import sales.
Why did you say "Para" then ?
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Old May 21, 2020, 06:52   #66
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No kidding , The first Doofuses to Cut them Down were in Texas (Shade Tree Mechanic Style ) then it caught on and the Chinese caught wind of it and started doing it at the arsenal /Mfg facilities in China . and who woulda thunk it (That they were a hit ) that they would sell a lotta them (Including D&M models) in Para Configuration . But if you have another name than Paratrooper that is as commonly used for these let me know as I've only seen them described as such . and BTW the Chinese Para SKS variants are 20-30% more valuable than the Standard length SKS Carbines .
For a while there were people here at falfiles scrounging and begging for pristine STG58 barrels so they could chop it to 16" and thread for AR flashhiders. They were very specific for their barrel choices: IMBELs were not good enough. Meanwhile gunplumber had come back from the Entreprise buyout with a ton of barrels, found many (mostly IMBELs ) with damaged muzzles and chopped them down to the 17" and change length commonly (as in not the only length but seems to be the most often found) used in factory paratrooper FALs and put factory threads, refinished, and sold them. But those who wanted shorties were not interested because they want to start with a 21" ideally unused STG barrel.

I bought a gunplumber 17.X" IMBEL one and I thought it looked in great shape. It is currently in my Paratrooper/Rhodesian tribute band project which I one day will finish.
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Old May 21, 2020, 14:25   #67
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actually SKS shorties go way way back
try late sixties
Posted a pick here before of a VietNam jungle workshop gun we have that's a Vet bringback, really a bubba'd SKS version of an AK by the Viet Kong
some guys just spaz when they see it
most others are like WTF ?

Norinco started doing Paratroop SKS versions at the behest of Navy Arms in the 80s
Same with that M model

Had nothin to do with clowns cutting them down here
understand it was the brainchild of one of Val's kids but that's just rumor
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Old May 28, 2020, 20:44   #68
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I honestly think we are on the cusp of new wave of surplus interest. Especially with Video Games portraying these weapons in a diffrent light. This is exactly how i got into firearms. My first firearm was a Hex receiver Mosin and the only way I could recognize it was because of Call of Duty. I really hope it doesnt explode as i would love for prices to drop so i can acquire more, but I think the more people we can get into firearms, the better really.
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Old May 30, 2020, 06:27   #69
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Norinco started doing Paratroop SKS versions at the behest of Navy Arms in the 80s
Same with that M model

Had nothin to do with clowns cutting them down here
understand it was the brainchild of one of Val's kids but that's just rumor
If you have told Norinco to make 1000 SKSs with a buttstock that could be used as a flesh light, they would just just say is their required lead time and what is the down payment.

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Originally Posted by kevman0154 View Post
I honestly think we are on the cusp of new wave of surplus interest. Especially with Video Games portraying these weapons in a diffrent light. This is exactly how i got into firearms. My first firearm was a Hex receiver Mosin and the only way I could recognize it was because of Call of Duty. I really hope it doesnt explode as i would love for prices to drop so i can acquire more, but I think the more people we can get into firearms, the better really.
IMHO, you need to stop looking into what has already taken the "POS feirgner crappy junk"->"Hunting/backseat/boat rifle"->"classic with books written about it" road. I tend to look for oddballs and stuff that was just brought in -- so internet experts have not been unleashed upon them -- and see if they have personality and I have a budget. If you wait until others say it is cool before buying, you are too late.

Same happens to parts kits. In fact, if you are after a M16A1 kit you are just about on the end of the good deals; they are going up in price. Same for AKs; look what happened to the AK74 kits. Galils, Uzis, and CETMEs have not really gone up in price a lot, specially the last two. But they will. The Berreta 70/90 is also a rather rare kit (1000 imported)?

Don't be like a friend of mine: when Garands could be bought for under $400 all day (2014-201?), I told said friend. And he whined and said it was too much and he would think about it. Then he contacted me and told "you remember those Garands? When I was about (in Mike-speak that means 6 months to a few years) to buy them, they jumped to $600!!!" At least he is not like someone I knew who would then want the bro-price -- sell to him at the price I originally paid -- for something he just found out how much goes for now.
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
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Old May 30, 2020, 17:23   #70
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If you have told Norinco to make 1000 SKSs with a buttstock that could be used as a flesh light, they would just just say is their required lead time and what is the down payment.



IMHO, you need to stop looking into what has already taken the "POS feirgner crappy junk"->"Hunting/backseat/boat rifle"->"classic with books written about it" road. I tend to look for oddballs and stuff that was just brought in -- so internet experts have not been unleashed upon them -- and see if they have personality and I have a budget. If you wait until others say it is cool before buying, you are too late.

Same happens to parts kits. In fact, if you are after a M16A1 kit you are just about on the end of the good deals; they are going up in price. Same for AKs; look what happened to the AK74 kits. Galils, Uzis, and CETMEs have not really gone up in price a lot, specially the last two. But they will. The Berreta 70/90 is also a rather rare kit (1000 imported)?

Don't be like a friend of mine: when Garands could be bought for under $400 all day (2014-201?), I told said friend. And he whined and said it was too much and he would think about it. Then he contacted me and told "you remember those Garands? When I was about (in Mike-speak that means 6 months to a few years) to buy them, they jumped to $600!!!" At least he is not like someone I knew who would then want the bro-price -- sell to him at the price I originally paid -- for something he just found out how much goes for now.
Both you guys are spot on:

Chinese built whatever America demanded
does anyone thing Norinco came up with making knock offs of Winchester lever shotguns or 1897s on their own ?
what happened is both were reverse engineered from supplied examples
rumor is those examples came out of Australia. The Chinks just cloned them in metric so everything has to be fitted on US frames, likewise on Norinco guns if you try to swap things around

Shit
in the 90s Garands were like a couple hundred
Blue Sky imports from the far East, Korea and Taiwan
Clinton shut that down
still tons of it there and in the Philippines where vast stores of M1 carbines exist

Thing is the Cucks running the CMP are faggots who detest the little Carbine
OMG it can take a 30rd magazine !!!
military gun fuds extreme these days who need to just go Coronary and implode then rot in a grave

There are far more carbines stored up in the PI then there ever were Garands
CMP queers dont much care about them do they
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