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Old September 22, 2019, 07:31   #1
BM59
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Brownells XM177 opinions?

I have always been fascinated by ‘Nam era carbines , and now teased by current sale:

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/r...rod113315.aspx

I know it is not a perfect replica but pretty close - and possibly the best you can get off the shelf at that price point?
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Old September 22, 2019, 08:01   #2
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Tempting, it is!
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Old September 22, 2019, 08:31   #3
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I actually looked at all the pics. of the rifle and it looks good. In my case sadly i want it really bad, order it and once i get it the love is over at that moment. There it goes in the safe not to be taken out too often. I try to let things cool down now but usually as usual but on a moments notice.
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Old September 22, 2019, 08:49   #4
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Plastic butt stock ?
Are aluminum ones unobtanium today ?
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Old September 22, 2019, 09:18   #5
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Temptation got the best of me. Finally broke down and bought one. As previously stated, it's not a perfect copy, but pretty close. Legal barrel length and a proper moderator being classified as a suppressor being the bigger differences. Color is black instead of grey too. Overall the fit, finish, and function is fine.

Mine has the 1 in 12 twist rate which handles the ubiquitous 55g loading quite well. Another plus point of that slow twist is that the CMMG 22lr adapter shoots rim-fire decently. Much more so than the now standard faster rates. That gives you a two for one rifle.

Removed the steel snap hooks from a canteen strap and with some para cord, fashioned up a silent sling to carry it with. An original 20 round Colt magazine completes the package. Looks great. Handles great. Fun to shoot. Always draws attention at the range.

I'm so pleased with the way it has worked out that I rounded up the parts to build a clone in 300 blackout. With the pinned on fake moderator, it become impossible to use my suppressor. But for shooting supers it is just as much fun to play with. A 6.8 SPC and 458 SOCOM has crossed my mind as well. Gotta suppress these thoughts as I'm trying to cut back in my older years.
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Old September 22, 2019, 09:20   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yovinny View Post
Plastic butt stock ?
Are aluminum ones unobtanium today ?
Aluminum ones are available at Brownell's as well as other sources.
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Old September 22, 2019, 10:58   #7
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I can't get past the markings. That's a total killer.
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Old September 22, 2019, 14:18   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uriah Lee View Post
Aluminum ones are available at Brownell's as well as other sources.

Then why on earth use an incorrect plastic copy

To make $5. more,,,,
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Old September 22, 2019, 15:51   #9
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You make a valid point, YV. I stand corrected on the alloy butt stock from Brownell's. Mine was purchased from another source and added later to mine. Retro rifles, TNT Sales, and Tony's customs have them. Pick up the proper castle/lock nut for the buffer tube as well. Not a perfect copy, but if you squint your eyes a bit...

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Old September 22, 2019, 17:11   #10
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I think it's nice.

I was doing some research about building one up from parts. I wanted a slip-over fake moderator so I could get the most bbl length and still look right, with no pinning, welding or NFA. I couldn't tell for sure whether a real XM177E2 had a flat slip ring or a delta ring for the handguards.

I decided not to do it, but if I still wanted one, I would consider the Brownells and tweak it if I had to.
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Old September 22, 2019, 17:22   #11
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i think its way over priced, only thing i like that it has the right carry handle
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Old September 22, 2019, 17:23   #12
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Looks like a really nice XM177 clone, with close-to-correct gray finish (in Brownell's pic) and no bayo lug. I put together one with a Tntesales XM177 barrel kit and it turned out nicely, but the finish is not correct and has a lug. I should of asked Tnte to grind off the lug, but they are very slow, didn't want to slow things down more. It was a cost thing in my situation, but the Brownell's one is very nice, IMO. Does NoDak supply Brownell's with the receivers?
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Old September 22, 2019, 18:17   #13
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Real XM177-E2

Meb's, Real XM177-E2 should be a Flat ring, The M-16A2's had the delta rings when they entered production.
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Old September 22, 2019, 18:28   #14
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I believe Nodak does supply Brownell's with raw receivers and Brownell's does the finish machining. Receivers come in grey or black. Finished rifles came only in black when I got mine.
Early XMs used the slip ring and later iterations switched to the delta ring. E2s could have either. The buffer tube is fixed with a lock ring that gets tightened with a pin spanner instead of a castle nut.
DPMS used to have a slip over fake moderator and are easy to make if not.
Troy was making nice XM-177 and GAU-5 clones. Not sure if they are still being produced.

https://bpullignwolnet.dotster.com/r...rbGde/629.html

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Old September 22, 2019, 20:37   #15
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I see I was not the only one thinking of making a move on it. Understand all pros and cons, but I do not believe it is overpriced. I will sleep on it a couple of nights and I may pull the trigger on it. Thank y’all for input.
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Old September 22, 2019, 23:21   #16
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Considering cost for Nodak receivers, correct or good copies of correct furniture and other parts at $999 likely as cheap to buy as build the thing. On mine need to swap Delta Ring to flat ring next time it's out of the vault but it's close enough otherwise and built on early Oly rifle so have pennies on the dollar in it. Also have a 1:9 twist barrel as the chopped and rethreaded 1:12 does not like 62 grain or heavier bullets and even 55 grain projectIles go unstable between 125 and 150 yards. Used this barrel as came out of a box of mixed gun show parts for $5 because of wear.

Have considered SBR paperwork and have a local suppressor company who say they can build a very close copy of a moderator that does the job of suppressing better especially if use an 10.5" barrel and let them make 6" long a fake moderator into a suppressor so get as much internal volume as possible. Saves the SBR stamp and adds a suppressor stamp instead increased diameter to that or bit larger of the true moderator as many fakes are undersized extended flash hiders. The build they are proposing would be a prototype for a model could take to market.

The moderator/real suppressor 6" long plus fatter imperceptibly buy most to help with baffles and look as correct compared to most stretched moderator fakes. This decision is only reason have not torn down and rebuilt it yet. I love pin up single stamp SBRs as $200 saved on the SBR stamp goes a long way toward cost on nailing a can on permanently. Other option is the Griffen XM Linear muzzle brake on a 12.5" barrel. So many choices....

It does like my 50 grain swaged bullets that use drawn 22lr cases for jackets as jackets are thin, alloy is soft and rifling gets a good hold and carves the light and thin skinned home swaged bullets well. Considered a 1:7 but will likely only shoot home swaged 50s and M193 55s and a 1:7 short tube could wind them up too fast. Built a 24" 1:7 varmint rfile once and when shooting 45 grain bullets at Prarie Dogs a long way off loaded hot spin drift was hard to contend with. 1:9 should stabilize 62 grain milspec ammo as well as cheap home swage 50s and military 55s. If can make it shoot better with faster twist and actually quiet it down better than original moderator did would be a win/win to me.

Can only find one picture of mine which is poor and does not show other side which has no fences around mag release. Have to figure out which vault and pull as need to finish it up. I did this clone in the 1980's when clones were not as popular nor proper parts easy as click and buy although original parts easier to find if willing to hunt.

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Old September 23, 2019, 09:45   #17
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At first glance, these are the errors in the Brownells XM177-E2 Clone:
1) Butt stock should be nylon coated aluminum.
2) Front sling swivel should be roll pinned in place.
3) Should have delta type handguard slip ring.
4) Ejection port cover should be A1 style with small spring block.
5) Receiver extension tube nut should have holes for pin style stock wrench to install.

Look here - https://bpullignwolnet.dotster.com/r...rbGde/629.html
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Old September 23, 2019, 09:52   #18
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Looks like another type of poodle shooter.
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Old September 23, 2019, 16:22   #19
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About ten years ago I bought a pre ban Colt SP1 Carbine (1977), with the correct XM177E2 stock and the 1/12, 16" bbl. I put on the slip over flash hider.
I must have had $800.00 in it.

Today, you can order an 80% lower and have it marked as an XM177E2. I did recently; Colt was not available so I had it marked Guide Lamp Division, etc etc and the XM designation.
Will have a fixed mag (Mean Arms mag lock) for NYS legalty and the Mean Arms fast loader.

Guide Lamp Division of GM Corp made "grease guns" during WWII. Who is to say that this one is not a keeper.
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Old September 23, 2019, 18:21   #20
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Scratch the itch. They are cool and the price won’t break the bank.
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Old September 23, 2019, 23:19   #21
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Go for it!

Decent price to start off at. You can always upgrade some of the parts to your liking. Very competitive to the Troy Industries release. (IMHO Troy makes a fine XM 177 Carbine too). You will wait forever for TNTE to provide an upper.


https://www.ammoland.com/2018/03/col...#axzz60PdltNHA
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Old September 24, 2019, 11:19   #22
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Troy Firearms

Guys I admit I'm a little late to the show, but what is the hard-on for Troy? I seen that youtube of the comparison of the Brownells & Troy XM177E2. Reminded me of the one from an Old Sarge kit back in the early '80s?
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Old September 24, 2019, 13:19   #23
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I like Brownells and Troy.

I can attest that Troy delivered a fine product on time without payment up front. (Unlike that dirtbag Coonan) They really put together a package that is authentic, even though I opted to improve on some details like the handguards. Butt stock is aluminum coated in nylon like originals. But for the price, Brownells is about $150 to $200 cheaper, and they are also a great option in the retro market.

Colt put out a real expensive XM 177 commemorative. Now even more expensive. So much for the prancing pony.

Find a $20.00 GM Hydromatic pistol grip and let the games begin.

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Old September 25, 2019, 17:00   #24
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The 177 is cool but I think I would rather have either this one

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/r...rod113314.aspx

or this one in brown

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/r...rod115389.aspx

Decent prices, how long is this sale gonna be on for?
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Old September 25, 2019, 18:24   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Near Sighted Sniper View Post
The 177 is cool but I think I would rather have either this one

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/r...rod113314.aspx

or this one in brown

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/r...rod115389.aspx

Decent prices, how long is this sale gonna be on for?
I'll bet they'll sell you one or both
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Old September 26, 2019, 00:02   #26
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Colt M-16A1 Commando

Funny how Colt continued the production of the M-16A1 Commando up until 1983. I have a real Colt M-16A1 Commando that was produced in 1981 by Colt. Form 4 List it as a M-16A1, Model Number RO629, Commando. IT'S NOT MARKED XM-177E2. Colt claimed that it was for Law Enforcement, export and civilian sales.

Now the thing that it is, It has the later for 1981 Plastic stock 2 POS recoil tube that later became the N/1 production Plastic stock and 4 POS recoil tube. It also has the older slip ring, NOT the later Delta ring to take the hand Guards on and off.

I've owned this weapon since 1999, Over the years I've upgraded it with a Colt Socom Flat top upper, 11 1/2 inch H-Bar barrel, Trijicon 4x28 Scope or an older Reflex II, Knight Armament Rail system and vertical grip. I did keep the original Commando upper AND NO IT'S NOT FOR SALE.
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Old September 26, 2019, 20:32   #27
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The "X" is a designation for "experimental". It is not a production line item. XM177E1 and XM177E2 were the common names but not the official nomenclature. The official names were RO607, RO609, RO610, RO629, RO639 and others.
Here's part of an article which explains;

With the development of the 609 and 610 models, the Army gave this carbine the designation of XM177 with the “X” part indicating “experimental.” The original XM177 was based on the Model 610 which had no Colt Forward Assist. As it’s considered bad form and unoriginal for different branches of the military to agree on anything, the Air Force also adopted the same carbine but called it the GAU-5/A Submachine Gun. Because confusion benefits everyone.

Just to add more confusion, when the Army started to order these models, they went with the Model 609 variant (which included a forward assist.) Being different in features, this needed a new name, and that became the XM177E1. Clear as mud so far? Good, then hold on to your shorts, it gets more confusing.
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2018/03/col...#ixzz60gWSrwhx
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In the cycle of continuous product improvements, someone decided that lengthening the barrel from 10 to 11.5 inches would be a good thing and a change likely to reduce the size of muzzle flash from outrageously ginormous to simply epic.(<–excuse my technical nomenclature) New specifications meant new model numbers, so the Colt folks named these carbines the Model 629 (forward assist) and Model 649 (no forward assist.) New Colt model numbers meant that the Army had to issue a new name too, so these became the XM177E2 series. Oh, and of course the Air Force did likewise, adopting the GAU-5A/A model which apparently did not have a forward assist but rather a confusing name with lots of vowels.

So, if you’re still conscious after digesting that, here’s the summary on the Colt Commando. There is no definitive configuration of a Colt Commando rifle. It’s kind of a loose term to describe these very similar groups of carbines. Some had 10-inch barrels. Others had 11.5-inch barrels. Some had bayonet lugs while shorter barrel models did not. They may or may not have a forward assist feature. The important stuff like short configuration, compact size, round hand guards, and collapsible stock seem to be consistent throughout the family.

The whole article' https://www.ammoland.com/2018/03/col...#axzz60gTputda
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Old September 26, 2019, 20:48   #28
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Forgot to add. If you want some good info on the XM177e series and some of the technical reports check out below, expecially the"reviews"
https://www.smallarmsreview.com/search/index.cfm
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Old October 09, 2019, 14:36   #29
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Anyone looking to build an XM-177-Ex there is a n original Colt moderator for sale...$600; https://gunspot.com/listings/detail/...nd-suppressor/
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