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Old February 12, 2020, 15:10   #1
Nihonto Chicken
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Question Rhodesian Mod. 11 Remington???

Saw the following up at auction (on its third, unbid go 'round now, so I don't think I'm exposing someone else's golden find). It's a WWII era Remington Model 11 riot shotgun, may be all correct, maybe not. What is particularly interesting is the electro-pencil mark on the receiver, see below:



The seller indicates he has no knowledge of what the mark means, so evidently no hump action on his part. So might anyone here have any evidence of Remington or other riot shotguns other than the FN Police models (Browning A5 style) being used in the Bush War? Is there any possible legitimacy to this RA number, and is there a corresponding FN FAL or other firearm with the same number? Inquiring minds!
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Old February 12, 2020, 17:27   #2
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I can't offer specific answers, but as general observation, it would not surprise me even slightly if that did in fact reflect Rhodesian service. The Rhodies used most any weapon they could get their hands on, this would be an obvious and useful choice. AFAIK, RA serials ran consecutively. Barring an error an RA serial should be unique to one particular weapon. The an individual serial was not issued to be used on a group or "set" of weapons, nor to unit for use on all weapons of the unit.
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Old February 12, 2020, 19:07   #3
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Who imported it ?
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Old February 12, 2020, 20:44   #4
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Good points, gentlemen. There is no way there were in the order of six thousand Remington or any other RA shotguns (only six hundred or so FN Police Model A5 style shotguns were RA marked). And no import marks seen on the shotgun in question here.

And of course the electro-pencil RA6025 mark may have nothing at all to do with the Bush War. The piece does exhibit a goodly amount of wear, though, generally well in excess of other period Mod. 11 riot guns showing up now, which apparently spent most their lives in a rack with perhaps light use as guard duty guns.

Just an interesting anomaly, likely never to be explained.
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Old February 12, 2020, 21:35   #5
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Can you provide a link to the auction for more pics?

I would question the location of the RA number-why on the hump and not marked in the standard location for the FN’s? Also no import markings would contribute to it being humped. It is way too easy to grab a vibratory engraver and add some RA numbers to increase perceived value. I have yet to see any humped RA stuff with the large font machine engraving—seen a fair share of humped vibratory faked stuff.

Would be really funny if it’s coincidentally a former owners initials and last 4 of SSN!
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Old February 12, 2020, 21:58   #6
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The Rhodesians indeed used everything and anything they could get past the sanctions, so it is indeed possible. As a WWII vintage, it could have been leftover and brought home by someone, then later pressed into service in the bush wars I suppose. I would venture however that it is doubtful it would have ended up with any military armorer's marking if that were the case.

Shotguns were not a high priority to acquire at that time, and as MP stated, the location of the electro-pencil stamp is very odd.

Never say never, especially in Africa, but......??????
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Old February 12, 2020, 22:17   #7
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They also marked both receiver and bolt on everything Ive seen marked RA.
My .02,,,if no import mark, its more likely a US police or jail marking.
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Old February 13, 2020, 17:32   #8
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Okay, here's the GB auction number: 854582978. Again, I trust I'm not letting kitties out of the bag for those who are interested and found this on their own.

The shotgun looks like legit WWII military with possible exception of the front sight, as Rem. Mod. 11 riot models of that type usually came without a pedestal under the bead, unlike their long barreled brethren. A buyer would also need to check to see whether all the serial numbers match and maybe some other stuff.

I have a nicer example for which I paid less, so not interested in bidding on this one, though the listed entry price is less than everything else out there.

The electro-pencil RA6025 is on the receiver bottom just ahead of the loading port. It can't be an official number, and if Rhodie Army at all, was likely done by the individual soldier, perhaps to match his FAL? More likely some type of non-Rhodie marking made on this side of the pond that just happens to resemble official RA marks.
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Old February 17, 2020, 17:15   #9
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As much fake shit as I've seen done to Trapdoors, Krags, 1903s and Garands I'm kind of suspicious to say the least. The Rhodesians would have numbered the bolt and barrel too. RA also could be "Remington Arms" if they maybe kept this as a tool / pattern room sample.
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Old February 17, 2020, 18:11   #10
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I noticed its listed as 19" barrel too, instead of the 20" it should be...
Could be he dosent know how to mearure correctly, but add in the aftermarket ramp under the front bead and it only produces more questions.
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Old February 17, 2020, 20:27   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yovinny View Post
I noticed its listed as 19" barrel too, instead of the 20" it should be...
Could be he dosent know how to mearure correctly, but add in the aftermarket ramp under the front bead and it only produces more questions.
I thought the Rhodie barrels were 21”?
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Old February 17, 2020, 20:34   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp View Post
I thought the Rhodie barrels were 21”?
Nope, 23"

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Old February 18, 2020, 06:40   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp View Post
I thought the Rhodie barrels were 21”?
Its neither a Rhodie nor an A5.
Its a Remmy model 11 riot gun,,, and their barrels were 20".
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