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Old November 13, 2019, 22:24   #101
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I just ordered a neck sizing die..... and some new calipers! This cheap primed brass just got a little more expensive. Ha!
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Old November 13, 2019, 22:38   #102
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Old November 14, 2019, 11:27   #103
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Someone mentioned on last pa for example they never use small base dies. I always use small base dies especially since recently replaced most of my dies for loading repeating rifle rounds with the RCBS AR Series Dies as all are small base. Especially when loading once fired bought in bulk or given to me am unsure if run through a generously sized machine gun chamber. My nicer turn bolts neck size only as want case to fit rifle it's loaded for nicely as possible.

As to crimping rifle cases I crimp about 30% of my SHTF/hoarding rounds very lightly with a factory taper crimp die. Have a full collection of Lee Factory Crimp Dies in almost every handgun and rifle caliber I load but except for full power straight wall pistol loads they seldom get used. Now when I am loading ammo that will most likely be stored till after I die or we have complete collapse of society I use Redding Micro-Adjustable Taper Crimp Dies as can adjust in a very, very minimal crimp that does not negatively affect accuracy and then I use sealant around meeting of case neck and bullet cannelure plus primer then store in acid free cardboard boxes in steel cans with gaskets that are purged with nitrogen and RTV silicone lightly smeared on gasket. Have opened cans that put up over twenty years ago which ammo looked just like it did when put up and all runs 100% reliable and accurate.

That said when loading range ammo for repeaters seldom crimp even new or pull down brass as even if buy new primed brass pull the depriming stem then bump shoulders and neck size to ensure proper headspace and tension thus no need to crimp. I seat more bullets in a single stage than most even with a passel of progressives just so I can feel how bullet seats. To crimp or not is each persons decision but as W.E.G. says if try pushing a few random bullets into case against something solid and they don't move then crimping is a wasted step. If they do slip back in case then need to look back at loading process and discover why but a light taper crimp can at least save pulling down 1,000 slightly loose projectiles.
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Old November 16, 2019, 01:21   #104
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Tried out my new calipers and all the bullets are measuring .3085". I suppose that is what they are supposed to measure.

The loaded case necks are measuring .339" - .340" and the unloaded case necks without sizing are measuring around .338", but many are not perfectly round. After neck sizing with my new RCBS die the unloaded necks measure a pretty consistent .336".
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Old April 01, 2020, 11:39   #105
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I finally got around to shooting some of this brass.

TLDR version is:
The primers on this brass are harder than commercial primers.
Enough harder, that you may experience misfires.





I loaded a ladder-batch for a 150-grain AP bullet I'm working with.

The brass all worked great with the ladder-test for that bullet.


Then some shit happened.


I had a ladder-test set up for what was supposed to be a sub-sonic load with a 200-grain Lapua bullet.
I started with the HIGH end of the ladder first, because that's what you do when ladder-testing subsonic. Theory being that you want to work DOWN from the higher velocity, and avoid sticking a bullet in the barrel.

Gun was a 16" Remington 783 bolt gun.

First load was 11.0 grains Trail Boss.
Chose that because fellas on the internet were saying that bullet gives them 1050 fps with about 10.5 grains Trail Boss.

Quickload suggests that I actully should see a little higher velocity than 1050 fps with 10.5 Trail Boss:



As I just noted, I started testing with FIVE rounds of that recipe.
I got velocities for only FOUR.
923
967
937
980

Quickload says I should get 1174 fps with that 11.0 grains.
Those actual chronograph numbers are off by quite a lot.
Now, that fifth round - MISFIRE
I hit that primer three or four more times. Still would not fire.
No pop-sound of any sort. No movement of the bullet whatsoever.
I disassembled the round, and the powder showed no scorching, and the inside of the case around the flash-hole was still bright-and-shiny yellow brass.
I am 100% sure that primer did not ignite.

OK, so I had another batch to try.
This batch was 0.2 grains less than the first I tried.
So 10.8 grains Trail Boss with the 200 Lapua.
Again, four rounds fired, and one round misfired. Additional strikes of the primer accomplished nothing. Same bright-shiny clean brass around the inside of the flash hole. No scorched powder.
Velocities:
964
941
904
876

At that point, I was frustrated and there really was no point in shooting the rest of ladder (even lesser powder charges) because the "hot" load of the bunch was giving me way less velocity than I expected, and way less than the target-velocity of 1050 fps that I wanted to identify via this ladder test.

I think it is weird that I fired something like 50 rounds using the other bullet (150-grain AP and TAC powder), and had not one single problem with that brass.
Then when I switched to the different bullet (Lapua) for the Trail Boss test, I got two misfires in just 10 rounds.

I really don't understand how changing the bullet and powder would have anything to do with whether the primed brass would suddenly begin having misfire issues.


Inspection of the fired Lake City brass did show less indentation of the firing pin than Federal commercial primers or Australian ball or South African ball.

So, I'm going with this primed brass having HARD PRIMERS.

Yes, I did check the "headspace" dimension of the primed brass. It was right on the money (1.628"). Same numbers I get when I measure milsurp and commercial factory-loaded ammo.

The rifle headspace dimension is quite good. It will accept a 1.631" gage, but resists closing on a 1.632" gage.

So its not like the loaded round is rattling around between the boltface and the shoulder of the chamber.

Maybe it was something with the 150-AP bullet causing just-enoug tighter fit in the chamber to provide a firmer strike. Kind of mysterious.

In the end, I think the proof is in the lesser primer-indentation on even the rounds which did fire.

Sucks that now I can't rely on this brass for "serious" use.
I don't like wasting time handloading ammo for "plinking."

I'm not going to try posting pics, because I've found that pics of primer-strikes - unless there is something really dramatic to show - don't render well unless you have the right camera, and the right lighting. Trust me. My Mark 1 eyeball says the indentations from this one rifle are lesser on this brass.

Maybe the FAL or the AR-10 or the Garand or the M1A will hit it harder.
Those tests will have to be for another day.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg trail boss.jpg (233.9 KB, 20 views)
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Old April 01, 2020, 11:55   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post

...

Maybe the FAL or the AR-10 or the Garand or the M1A will hit it harder.
Those tests will have to be for another day.
Interesting...

I wouldn't count on the FAL striking harder, but the AR-10 and Garand might work...

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Old April 01, 2020, 13:15   #107
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There has to be a reason they “pull down” a given batch of ammunition.

For this batch?..maybe now we know that reason.
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Old April 05, 2020, 22:01   #108
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We shall see.

Testing again tomorrow.

I'm still baffled that these cases would be sure-fire with fifty consecutive full-power loads, but then the primer doesn't even ignite on two out of ten subsonic loads.

Testing tomorrow with the AR-10 and the Remington.
My other .308 guns are all put-away and oiled. I really don't want to dirty them just to test a batch of brass.
If this brass won't ignite 100% with full-power loads in the AR-10, I'm not going to waste any more time with it.
The AR-10 (DPMS LR-308-T actually) has a Geissele service-rifle trigger in it.
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Old April 06, 2020, 21:24   #109
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Loaded some of this LC primed pull down brass with 43gr of Varget over a 175 SMK and full length sized. Will shoot out of my 700 5R and FAL this weekend. Will post results. Only loaded 40 rds so far. If primers are defective, I'll deprime and prime with fresh Federal large match primers, so it wont be a total loss. Will let you know W.E.G.Also what year are the cases?

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Old April 06, 2020, 23:47   #110
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Quote:
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Loaded some of this LC primed pull down brass with 43gr of Varget over a 175 SMK and full length sized. Will shoot out of my 700 5R and FAL this weekend. Will post results. Only loaded 40 rds so far. If primers are defective, I'll deprime and prime with fresh Federal large match primers, so it wont be a total loss. Will let you know W.E.G.Also what year are the cases?
Fired another fifty-ish rounds of it today (yesterday actually now) with the pulldown brass. Every one went bang.
All were full-power loads.
Years are mixed: 2017, 2018...and I *think* there may even have some 2019.

I still have no logical explanation for the two duds.
Very weird that they happened with none of the fifty-some full-power loads, but instead happened two out of ten of the subsonic loads.
Which is even more weird, because the primer didn't even ignite.

I just-now used my RCBS Precision Mic tool to measure the base-to-shoulder dimension of the two dud case. The measurements came up shorter than most of the other cases in the pulldown batch -0.002" and -0.006" respectively. Frankly, while the dud cases DID ACTUALLY HAVE SHORTER HEADSPACE DIMENSION (allows "cushioning" of firing pin impact), I would not expect that small amount to cause a misfire. I've shot handloads that were worse than that, and they still went bang. Although coupled with a harder "military" Lake City primer, maybe the combination was the curse.

So great. Now I get to run the remaining 900 cases though the case gage to sort-out the short cases. And I still need to brush-out the residual gunpowder left stuck to the neck-sealant during pull-down process. The whole idea of acquiring this primed brass was supposed to be to SAVE THE HASSLE OF BRASS PREP.

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Old April 07, 2020, 01:18   #111
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My cases are also from TheAmericanMarksman with the same mixed headstamp dates.I also run every case through the RCBS micrometer gage just to be safe. Most all have been within .002"-.004" below zero on the mic. Have you run a GO gauge through the mic to verify its accuracy? Mine was off by -.002". I just bought a 30.06 RCBS Mic and it was dead on accurate with a Forster GO gage. Go figure. I've also had a few cases with buggered up case mouths from the collet while pulled.They are a crap shoot.
I think you nailed it on those dud cases.Also it is remotely possible the bolt firing pin channel and spring are gunked up with crud. Anxious to try mine out.

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Old April 07, 2020, 08:38   #112
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My RCBS Precision Mic reads -0.004 when a Forster 1.630 headspace gage is measured.

So, my nominal “zero” number on that gage is 0.004”.

The dud cases I measured came in at -0.006 and -0.010 respectively on he Precision Mic.
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Old April 07, 2020, 10:07   #113
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WEG
Have you tested M2AP vs M61 for penetration loaded in .308?
I haven't loaded M2AP much in .308. My assumption is the long bullet and bearing surface would hinder the ability to produce maximum velocity to perform better than smaller profile of M61.

As a side note I think M2AP is a better perpetrator than M61 per same velocity.

I did load M2AP in 300WM with H4350 and got up to 3,450 FPS without pressure signs.
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Old April 07, 2020, 10:11   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
My RCBS Precision Mic reads -0.004 when a Forster 1.630 headspace gage is measured.

So, my nominal “zero” number on that gage is 0.004”.

The dud cases I measured came in at -0.006 and -0.010 respectively on he Precision Mic.
Could the impact of the firing pin shortened the case headspace on those duds?
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Old April 08, 2020, 12:37   #115
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Originally Posted by 762gunr View Post
WEG
Have you tested M2AP vs M61 for penetration loaded in .308?
I haven't loaded M2AP much in .308. My assumption is the long bullet and bearing surface would hinder the ability to produce maximum velocity to perform better than smaller profile of M61.

As a side note I think M2AP is a better perpetrator than M61 per same velocity.

I did load M2AP in 300WM with H4350 and got up to 3,450 FPS without pressure signs.
I don't have any good test-site for doing worthwhile penetration-testing.

The fudds at the club would be apoplectic if I dragged engine blocks or or gelatin blocks out onto the paper-target range and started blasting shit.

I've seen some videos and posts showing comparisons.

I had several thousand AP .50 BMG bullets that I sold for cheap.
You know, there's penetration, and then there's PENETRATION.
I once had dreams of being BMG-Boy. Those dreams have faded with my strength, energy, and situation.

I'm going with the hard-steel-core bullets being more likely to penetrate hard stuff than Walmart ammo. A FAL is about the most robust blasty-thing that I have the moxie to deal with these days. That works for me.
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Old April 08, 2020, 12:42   #116
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Could the impact of the firing pin shortened the case headspace on those duds?
That's a fair question to ask.

Indeed, that might be what happened.

Kind of doubt it though.

I sorted through a few dozen of the pulldown primed cases, and the range of sizes is greater than I thought/hoped. Some are short enough that I wouldn't guarantee a sure-fire. I wonder if the smoosh-grab-yank pulldown process might have pushed the shoulder back a bit on some of the cases? I did notice that some of the pulldown cases chambered with more resistance than others in the bolt gun. Not much reason I can think of why that would happen unless somehow the cases exhibiting that behavior were deformed - deformed from the git-go, or deformed during the pulldown, or deformed during the handling after the pulldown.

So great.

Now, after I finish brushing-out the leftover gunpowder stuck to the neck-goop, I get to gage every one of the cases, and then possibly run each through a sizing die.

Damn. I sure know how to take advantage of a bargain.

Those thousand Starline cases I almost ordered look better every day.
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Old April 08, 2020, 12:43   #117
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Here is a comparison of the "hardness" of the primers of the .308 Win. loads.

It is my belief that the Lake City "pulldown" primed cases
have harder primers than CCI standard large rifle primers.

Granted, I'll say its hard to tell for sure from these pics.
But, photographing primer indentations has always been uncertain.
Really hard to tell over the internet by looking at pics.

The Lake City pulldown is the brass-color primer.
The CCI standard large rifle primer is the silver-color primer.

Each load used 45.0 grains TAC, with 2.800" OAL.
Each load was fired in a Remington 783 bolt gun.

I will mention that the silver-primer cases were loaded with a 150 AP bullet.
The brass-primer cases were loaded with a 147 "M80" FMJ.
So not a completely apples-to-apples test here. But damn close.

A lot of the "hard" brass-color primers look fine so far as primer indent.
But look at each, and I think you will agree that there are a few indents that look weak.
At least "weak" by comparison to the consistent and deeper dents in the silver CCI primers

I will allow that an equally-plausible explanation for the apparent "lighter strike" could
well be that the Lake City pulldown cases were shorter-dimension base-to-shoulder.
I only inspected a few of the pulldown cases for base-to-shoulder dimension when I received them.
The dimension of the ones I inspected looked good.
But then I had the two misfires I reported in another thread. Which is what got me on this investigation.
After the misfires, I did measure the misfire case. One was only 0.002" shorter than my Forster 1.630 "GO" gage.
The other was 0.006" shorter than than the 1.630 gage.
So take that for what is worth in regard to the quality of my "testing."

I should have measured the base-to-shoulder dimension of the tested brass-primer rounds you see here before firing.
Alas, I did not.
So the "weak" indentations may not be hard primers. Could just as well be short base-to-shoulder.
The whole purpose of buying the "primed .308 brass" was to avoid brass-prep.
I guess now I'm going to have to measure-and-sort the brass to avoid further misfire drama. Oh boy....

Note that the silver-primer (LC MATCH) cases were more-closely scrutinized when I resized them.
The base/shoulder dimension of the LC MATCH case varies no more than 0.002" and runs very close to the 1.630 gage.
Some of the MATCH CASES run a couple thousandths short, as my goal is to avoid a long case is failing to go into battery in the autoloaders.

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Old April 08, 2020, 12:53   #118
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That's a fair question to ask.

Indeed, that might be what happened.

Kind of doubt it though.

I sorted through a few dozen of the pulldown primed cases, and the range of sizes is greater than I thought/hoped. Some are short enough that I wouldn't guarantee a sure-fire. I wonder if the smoosh-grab-yank pulldown process might have pushed the shoulder back a bit on some of the cases? I did notice that some of the pulldown cases chambered with more resistance than others in the bolt gun. Not much reason I can think of why that would happen unless somehow the cases exhibiting that behavior were deformed - deformed from the git-go, or deformed during the pulldown, or deformed during the handling after the pulldown.

So great.

Now, after I finish brushing-out the leftover gunpowder stuck to the neck-goop, I get to gage every one of the cases, and then possibly run each through a sizing die.

Damn. I sure know how to take advantage of a bargain.

Those thousand Starline cases I almost ordered look better every day.
There's always that, isn't there...?

It doesn't take that long to run the cases through a sizing die (except for removing the lube on a primed case, of course, but I'm sure that goes without saying... ).

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Old April 08, 2020, 12:56   #119
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By the way, Gary, thanks for the info on the test...

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Old April 08, 2020, 13:02   #120
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In keeping with the key principle:

"THE COYOTE REDOUBLES HIS EFFORT AFTER HE HAS LOST SIGHT OF HIS OBJECTIVE."
(Rule #3 at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wile_E...he_Road_Runner )

I just finished wiping-down the now once-fired pulldown brass.
With acetone. Nice buzz from the fumes.

I didn't put it in the tumbler because I really don't have enough of it for a good tumble.
And because I didn't want to wait for it.
And because its ugly and tarnished.
Which is kind of cool - or at least was a good reason to huff some acetone
on yet another covid-social-distancing-day.

On the positive note, it does look like most of the stickum inside the necks burned off on the first firing.

I'm gonna see what the wife has cooking in the kitchen,
and then I'll resize it and wipe the lube off.
Not sure whether huffing acetone twice in a day is good for me.
So maybe just wipe the lube off with a wet paper towel.

THEN... I get to swage the primer pockets.

Probably better check to see if he cases need trimming too.

"It will be fun" they said.

If I live long enough, I'll load the cases back up with some TAC and some M80's,
to make a small batch of "blasting ammo" and break quarantine again
to see how the brass holds up on a second firing.

One of these days, I might even see if this brass makes ACCURATE ammo.

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Old April 08, 2020, 14:44   #121
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Have usually found pull down brass inconsistent in neck tension and shoulder set back as pulling sealed projectiles can stretch cases out of spec. I usually remove the decapping pin on primed pull down and set die to just bump the shoulder so am sure all are consistent and necks get sized for consistency in the process. If have a shoulcer bump die will work fine as well so don't have to size body of case if prefer not to. I like knowing have my pulled cases very close to proper dimensions all the way to case head.

On the subject of crimping, I never crimp for bolt rifles. For semi auto/select fire I generally use a factory taper crimp die as a separate step but only use the lightest of crimps. Unless someone looks very closely will not even notice they were crimped but knowing I put just a tad of consistent crimp so less chance of a bullet setting back and all release with consistent tension makes me happy. I also check length on pulled cases after bumping shoulders to be sure OAL is consistent and if not run through a trimmer as not a huge chore especially when the wife does all measuring and trimming.
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Old April 08, 2020, 15:40   #122
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I just finished sizing the now once-fired cases.

Before sizing, the cases fired in the bolt gun measured at 1.631 - 1.632 (base-to-shoulder).

Before sizing, the cases fired in the LR-308 measured at 1.633 - 1.634 (base-to-shoulder).

OAL of the sized cases varies 2.010" to 2.020".
Specs say correct is 2.015".
I think I'll just hit the necks with a quick chamfer and call it good. I don't see any point in trimming for now.

Wiping that lube off the cases (instead of washing as I normally do) reminded me of the olden days in the dormitory,
when we had to use the towel to keep the smell from making its way out into the hallway and getting the RA on our asses.



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Old April 08, 2020, 21:31   #123
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There we go.

Now which one y'all wanna get next to me so I can bounce one of these case mouths off your forehead?

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Old April 08, 2020, 22:06   #124
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Primer pockets swaged.

93 cases primed.

The CCI 200 primers seat 0.006" below flush.
By comparison, the pulldown primers sit 0.005" below flush.

Interesting.

Because you take that 0.005" below flush + 0.006" short base/shoulder dimension,
and you're already fighting against a 0.011" gap before the firing pin ever moves.

I'm glad I sized this brass to a tight 1.630" to 1.631" dimension.

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Old April 08, 2020, 23:24   #125
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I use spray lube on primed pull down cases with such a light spray it seems to dissappear just in handling. Use Hornady One Shot spray lube and does not take much for just bumping shoulder and ensuring necks are round and consistent. By time have finished loading process and do final wipe down before boxing rounds seems to have all worn off.

First evening freshman year was moving stuff from car to room when an untimely wardrobe malfunction allowed RA to see my cocked and locked 1911. Luckily though school had a no guns on campus rule (allowed deer hunting on campus so never reconciled that in my head logically), because had not been to freshman orientation to get a copy of the rule book slid by with stern warning from dean. From then on had to clear and drop handgun at guard shack whenever entered campus then as left guard(s) would hand it back from lock box installed to hold my gun. They never considered as drove through gate removed a 1911 Commander, slide in holster and was super careful to not let it be seen.

Berry had a no alcohol on campus policy and RAs would do random full room searches so AR 15, any spare firearms and ammo had to stay locked in trunk of car, pistol always on me or stashed in car. No way reloading equipment would have not been noticed in dorm room unless a Lee hand press but was just under two hour drive home so a once a month trip and could restock on ammo. Odd how they searched rooms but never cars as most had cooler or keg in the trunk.
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Old April 12, 2020, 12:30   #126
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I just ordered 3,000 pieces. Now to buy some TAC..............
Powdervalley and Midsouth are identical in price at $159.
Anybody know of a better deal?
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Old April 13, 2020, 22:54   #127
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$151.99 at Graf & Sons but website crashes before abe to check shipping and tax on my tablet. I would order from Mid South out of habit for just a few bucks. Can remember paper catalog and mail in order forms. Would mail personal checks and they shipped immediately without waiting to see if it cleared. Liked that.

Edit:
WEG, on your subsonic mis-fires, how much case fill were you getting with Trail Boss?
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Old April 13, 2020, 23:47   #128
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WEG, on your subsonic mis-fires, how much case fill were you getting with Trail Boss?
11.0 Trail Boss in a .308 case with the AP bullet loaded to 2.800" is 85% loading density.
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Old April 17, 2020, 20:04   #129
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Such fun Friday night.

Is it OK to do this while drinking?



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Old April 17, 2020, 20:08   #130
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I reload while smoking,,,why not??????
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Old April 17, 2020, 21:19   #131
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Smoking?

Hmmmm....

It never occurred to me to hit the case-mouths of this lot with a torch.

Except for lining them all up in such a way as to protect the primer, I bet that would make quick work of getting rid of the powder accumulation stuck to the neck-sealant!

Maybe just a little quick work with the crack-pipe torch.
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Old April 17, 2020, 21:52   #132
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Smoking?

Hmmmm....

It never occurred to me to hit the case-mouths of this lot with a torch.

Except for lining them all up in such a way as to protect the primer, I bet that would make quick work of getting rid of the powder accumulation stuck to the neck-sealant!

Maybe just a little quick work with the crack-pipe torch.


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Old April 22, 2020, 17:11   #133
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Smoking?

Hmmmm....

It never occurred to me to hit the case-mouths of this lot with a torch.

Except for lining them all up in such a way as to protect the primer, I bet that would make quick work of getting rid of the powder accumulation stuck to the neck-sealant!

Maybe just a little quick work with the crack-pipe torch.

Thanks for posting details of your trials with this brass! I've loaded some of mine but haven't been able to test them yet.

I found that neck sizing removes most of the residual powder stuck inside the case mouths.

On the 'hard' primer issue... I read something years ago from a tech at CCI that said the primer cups are all the same hardness. They said that the military spec (CCI 34, CCI 41) are just less sensitive than the corresponding commercial (CCI 200, CCI 400) primers. It's been too long, now, but I think even the primer compounds were the same but the difference was in the anvils or the way the anvils were set in the compound? Anyone have any details on that?
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Old April 22, 2020, 18:44   #134
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On the 'hard' primer issue... I read something years ago from a tech at CCI that said the primer cups are all the same hardness.
I am inclined to agree.

In the case of LARGE rifle primers, the cups are all the same thickness.
Every brand. Same thickness (within ~0.001").
Everthing is 0.025" thick in LARGE rifle primers.

Moreover, if there were some secret "metallurgical" feature, it wouldn't be a secret at this point. How long have Boxer primers been around? A century? Those sorts of things don't get kept secret for long.

But, I do believe there is something about different batches of primers that makes them harder to ignite. I'll allow the "dents" from the firing pin are a pretty subjective way to assess the supposed hardness.

It seems to me the only way to make a so-called "military primer" less sensitive is to use less priming compound or use a shorter anvil. I may have to make it a quest to dissect some primers and see if I can measure the height of the anvils. I am doubtful that the manufacturers are using less priming compound in military primers. I"m inclined to suspect that they are relying on military-type rifles to simply hit the primer harder than the average commercial rifle - especially OLDER commercial rifles.

And speaking of "secret" features. If they were using shorter anvils in the "military" primers, wouldn't that be a well-known fact by now?
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Old April 22, 2020, 20:14   #135
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I suppose not too many people have ever been inclined to try to measure the tiny anvils or how far they are set into the priming compound. I've got access to the perfect tool at work to do such a measurement, though. Maybe once this virus closure has been lifted I'll try to take some detailed measurements of the CCI 400 vs. CCI 41 anvils.

I've experienced first hand the difference in primer sensitivity between the CCI 400 and the CCI 41 primers, so I know there is a real difference in performance.
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Old April 22, 2020, 22:39   #136
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Now you are talking about SMALL rifle primers.

Of course the 400 is more “sensitive.”

The 400 cup is only 0.016” thick.
The 41 is probably same as MAGNUM - which is 0.010 thicker than a SMALL rifle 400.

Our rifle team had terrible results with the 400.
Blanked, pierced, and extruded cups.
We switched to MAGNUM small rifle primers, and all those problems disappeared immediately.

All “standard” small rifle primers have thin cups.
I will never use a “standard” small rifle primer ever again.
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Old April 22, 2020, 22:42   #137
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CCI 400

Standard small rifle primer.

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Old April 22, 2020, 22:44   #138
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Regarding primer cup thickness, see:
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
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Old April 23, 2020, 10:12   #139
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Regarding primer cup thickness, see:
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
Interesting! Thanks!
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Old April 24, 2020, 10:16   #140
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Such fun Friday night.

Is it OK to do this while drinking?
(Trim Photos)
Yes, I assume your a professional at both drinking and reloading so simple tasks are safe while drinking. Before I gave it up had a rule, no dropping powder and seating bullets if drinking. Case prep is another thing. I have phosphor bronze brushes for 223 and 308 on one of my RCBS Power Case Prep machines for similar tasks. Back when military was first heavily testing 6.8 spc II as possible M4 replacement cartridge had a source for XM68GD pulls that was selling dirt cheap as the 6.8 crowd had not found them yet thus brass and projectiles were piling up on them. Purchased a total of 25,000 pulled primed cases but none had sealant on necks. I bumped shoulders and made sure necks were round and sized properly on every case.

Have been neglecting a proper "Huey size" pile of 22 Nosler because only source has been Nosler factory brass which is nice but not cheap. Just got 1,000 of the Midway Dogtown cases made by Nosler for Midway at a slightly better price so if it proves to be as good as Nosler headstamped will order more and start deepening the pile slowly. Not been much 7.62 brass over at castboolits.com lately. Lot of people selling 37 pieces of this, 78 pieces of that, 44 of another as many are sorting brass buckets. If I can't get at least a thousand matched cases it's not worth my time to fool with.
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Old April 24, 2020, 10:53   #141
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Nosler doesn't make brass. Nosler brass is Norma.
I interviewed for a job at Nosler and saw the entire setup. Making brass is way beyond their capabilities.
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Old April 24, 2020, 18:17   #142
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Nosler doesn't make brass. Nosler brass is Norma.
I interviewed for a job at Nosler and saw the entire setup. Making brass is way beyond their capabilities.
Interesting, Nosler must have an exclusive contract or some such deal. Till the Midway Dogtown brass which is advertised as "in proud partnership with Nosler, delivers premium reloading brass at volume prices. Manufactured with the traditional Nosler philosophy of uncompromising attention to detail" have only seen Nosler headstamped 22 Nosler brass. Till someone else gets in the game price is not going to be competative. Have yet to find over 100 once fired cases for sale anywhere, apparently most Nosler shooters pick up their cases and reload.

Last batch I loaded was 5,000 and figuring in price of new brass, primers, powder and projectiles was no real savings over factory ammo when someone runs a sale. When Midway has their 22 Nosler Dogtown loaded ammo is 60 cents per round compared to 40 cents for Dogtown unprimed brass and 62 cents for Nosler unprimed brass. Except for smoking throats on barrels, it's more fun to buy to 60 cent loaded ammo and make once fired brass while killing varmints.
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Old April 24, 2020, 18:35   #143
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19.5 cents each at RMR. See description and photo below. Seems to be about the same as what O.P. and others are dealing with though RMR calls these #1 Grade.

Quote:
These primed cases have never been fired. They are essentially new cases that from demilled military ammunition. They have the normal Lake City spotting and some remnant tar sealant, but once loaded, they will shine up nicely in your vibratory tumbler. They have crimped primers. Like with all new brass, it is recommended that you resize the neck of this brass before loading to ensure that you have consistent neck tension. This can be accomplished by removing the decapping pin from your resizing die.

As is the case with all demilled products, you may find a few mixed headstamps. However, from what we’ve seen, nearly all of this brass is manufactured by Lake City! Please note that Lake City cases are generally dirtier than our standard cases. This may have something to do with them being military cases.
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