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Old November 03, 2019, 17:12   #1
Datchew
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ejected case hitting dsa extreme duty scope cover

STG 58 kit with dsa type 1 receiver. para lightweight dsa lower.
new para spring kit from the guy here on the files that did an amazing job of reproducing them.

I added the dsa scope cover and noticed a few instances of funny ejection or failure to do so.
I removed it and noticed quite a bit of brass beatings on what would be the top of the ejection port.

I read the sticky about ggiillee ejector modification and then researched it a little bit.
Threads i've read by the guy seem to fall into 2 categories, both of which give me hesitation:

1 - he posts like a 1 armed, myopic or cross-eyed, drunk, captain hook trying to type in the dark. just judging from his spelling and connotation. Not one to typically comment but come on...

2 - GB seems to have strong feelings about him and they aren't altogether positive.


So i tried to play with some recently resized brass and my lovely and brilliant wife suggested i use the slow-mo feature.
So here's my attempt to post a slow mo and stop photo and i'd like to hear suggestions on how to improve this.








here's the stop photo. Matches the marks on the brass which are halfway down the body.

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Old November 03, 2019, 17:18   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datchew View Post
I added the dsa scope cover and noticed a few instances of funny ejection or failure to do so.
Brass kisses are a simple fact of life with an FAL, DSA scope cover or not.

The "failure to do so" with ejection is a whole different story.

What are you asking?
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Old November 03, 2019, 17:29   #3
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Brass kisses on your FAL are like lipstick on your zipper. Not something we complain about.

If the brass is hitting your scope knobs, rotate the scope 90 degrees so that the elevation-knob becomes windage, and vice-versa.



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Old November 03, 2019, 17:36   #4
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my bad on explanation.
I'm not concerned with brass "kisses."
I am concerned with failure to eject and occasional stovepipe.
I have a history of well over 2-300 rounds with zero malfunction and then added this cover for an optic and experienced a stovepipe about 5 out of 30 rounds.
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Old November 03, 2019, 17:38   #5
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Positive ejection is a good thing.

Eliminating the brass banging off the picatinny top cover might initially cause one to thing that accuracy will be improved. But what about all the other banging, and twanging and flexing that is going on with that battle rifle every time you fire a shot?

Yeah, if the top cover is moving around, that will definitely be a problem. Is there any evidence that your top cover is moving around? Or at least that its moving around any more than all the other stuff that moves around on a FAL?

You can tone-down the violence of ejection in a FAL by backing off the gas, and without grinding the ejector.

You might change the angle of ejection a bit if you grind on the ejector. But tell me what exactly this accomplishes. The gun still slings the brass into the weeds. Or at least you hope it does.

I'll leave you with this: I venture that no matter how much you tone-down the ejection - even to the point that the cases just barely dribble out, and leave no mark on your $100 aftermarket part - accuracy (especially consitency of point of impact of cold-bore shots) will still be a good bit less than you might achieve with a different-design rifle.
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Old November 03, 2019, 17:38   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
Brass kisses on your FAL are like lipstick on your zipper. Not something we complain about.
Quoted for posterity. Truer words were never spoken
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Old November 03, 2019, 17:40   #7
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If you are having malfunctions with the DSA mount, most likely one of the locking plates is caddywampus inside the receiver, and interfering with cycling.

Take the mount off, and re-install it.

Make absolute-sure all the locking plates are fully-seated in the top-cover grooves, and make sure the thread-end of none of the screws are extending so deep as to contact the bolt carrier during cycling.
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Old November 03, 2019, 17:41   #8
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And don't forget to put blue loctite on each screw.

If you omit the loctite, the screw will shoot loose almost immediately.

AMHIK
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Old November 03, 2019, 17:42   #9
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Quote:
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my bad on explanation.
I'm not concerned with brass "kisses."
I am concerned with failure to eject and occasional stovepipe.
I have a history of well over 2-300 rounds with zero malfunction and then added this cover for an optic and experienced a stovepipe about 5 out of 30 rounds.
Look at the sides of your carrier. Is there possibly a long screw in the mount rubbing on it and slowing down the cycle?
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Old November 03, 2019, 17:45   #10
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Funny. Yeah brass beats the hell out of the windage turret cover on a scope too. I can only image one of the fancy scopes without the covers. I've had the adjustment screws back out from the banging even with a cover.
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Old November 03, 2019, 19:10   #11
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Ghillie ejector mods...mayhaps?
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Old November 04, 2019, 08:05   #12
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It wont hurt anything to slightly modify the angle on your ejector, to try and 'tune' the flight angle of ejection some,,,, as I take it thats what your actually asking here.
Gunsmiths have been doing just that on pistols and other fixed ejector things since long before giggley or anyone here was born.
Just dont get carried away,,,or mention it to mark....
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Old November 04, 2019, 08:21   #13
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On the reliability issue, I vote for W.E.Gs advice to check, retighten, and secure all the mountingplates and screws. It's not as hard as one might think to have a misaligned plate or loosened screw - AMHIK !
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Old January 20, 2020, 20:08   #14
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Back from a long delay.

Status since last:
Removed DSA mount, checked screw tips and bolt carrier for rub marks. Found none.
Reinstalled and torqued all screws evenly with loctite 567pst (my favorite do-it-all flavor)
Checked again after torque for any binding/rubbing. Nada.

Went to the range.
Adjusting gas up or down has little effect. Still having FTE or "stovepipe" issues.

I'm not hung up on brass kisses but sporadic ejection is a problem.

Took several slow-mo videos with different gas settings.
The brass rotates out and strikes the dsa mount ejection port while it's perfectly perpendicular to the bore. It then bounces forward and hits the front of the ejection port and sometimes escapes and sometimes the bolt catches it on the forward stroke.

I'm wondering if the dsa mount ejection port rear wall is farther forward than the original dustcover and thus the brass hits at an angle to make it move straight forward. I.e., if the brass was able to rotate further past perpendicular to before it hit the wall, it would bounce more outward than forward.

Thoughts?
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Old January 20, 2020, 20:44   #15
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Is your gas set to max?
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Old January 20, 2020, 20:47   #16
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If the ejection port really is too far-forward with that mount, just get your dremel out and cut the ejection-port notch farther back.

Its just a DSA aftermarket part. Grind on it like it owes you money.
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Old January 20, 2020, 20:48   #17
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i ran it up to max with no change except a longer flight when it works properly.
Typical setting is with about half to 3/4 of the hole showing at the front of the gas collar/ferrule. I didn't count the clicks.

adjusted less and less gas and while i didn't go all the way down to where it just lumped out on the table, i got pretty close.
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Old January 20, 2020, 21:27   #18
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I've learned my lesson on weak ejection.

Weak ejection ("neat pile") is a BAD THING for a rifle that you might count on for important shit. If its just a range toy, you can set the gas so the brass dribbles-out like an old man trying to finish. Whatever suits you.

If the gun is an "important gun" you want that brass to be flying out of there with a vengeance. Otherwise, when the rifle gets dirty, or worse - dirty and cold, its going to let you down. If you can't stand brass getting beat to shit, get a bolt gun.

By orders of magnitude, reliability is more important than preservation of brass, or having a "pretty" rifle, or a "correct" rifle.
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Old January 21, 2020, 18:14   #19
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i read and re-read several commentaries on the ggilliieee ejector mod.

First realization was that a higher blood alcohol content improves my ability to understand ggillliiiiiiieeee but reduces my ability to understand everyone else.


second is that it can make the ejection path improve.

I'll try it with minor blending and if it doesn't sufficiently improve things, I'll just bust out the dremel and open the hole on the dsa mount.
As you said, it's an add-on aftermarket part. Can easily be replaced if i muck it up.
Not out for any beauty shows anyway.

Will report back after.
Thanks much
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Old January 21, 2020, 22:24   #20
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If your ejector mod doesnt solve your problem, maybe consider reprofiling the lower rear surface of the DSA scope mount cover port. In your slow frame video, it appears to me that the brass is hitting the upper corner of the port and rebounding 180 degrees, possibly re-entering the action before the bolt can close, causing your intermittent stovepipes. I modded WEGs photos to try to show what I mean:





With a file and a few minutes of your time you can change the angle of the rear ejection port edge to slightly swept downward & rearward, which should change the deflected angle of the brass case upon impact, which in turn should cause the casing to eject in a direction other than back into the action. I dont think itd take all that much to make the change you need, and it looks like following the existing bevel may be a good guide to use to keep it looking decent.

I could be completely wrong though! Hope your ejector mod works out. Please keep us posted.
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Old January 21, 2020, 23:10   #21
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Is this our ghey thread? Sorta like the Toyota forum
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Old January 21, 2020, 23:36   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datchew View Post
i read and re-read several commentaries on the ggilliieee ejector mod.

First realization was that a higher blood alcohol content improves my ability to understand ggillliiiiiiieeee but reduces my ability to understand everyone else.


second is that it can make the ejection path improve.

I'll try it with minor blending and if it doesn't sufficiently improve things, I'll just bust out the dremel and open the hole on the dsa mount.
As you said, it's an add-on aftermarket part. Can easily be replaced if i muck it up.
Not out for any beauty shows anyway.

Will report back after.
Thanks much
Do you have another rifle that you can swap the trigger housing (lower) with? You might get different results. I have a (ahem) Century G1 sporter that was mostly given to me for a few favors. It was a POS when I got it, the lower was a sloppy fit and it had cycling issues. I made one change... Got a real Stg 58 lower here on the files and swapped it in. All the difference in the world. It runs great and for some reason it throws brass at 2 oclock and has never touched the DSA top cover I have. This rifle is my go to for shooting 8x13" plates at 200 yards now, and plenty of filers have seen it at work. I think the cycling issues with the original lower were hammer drag on the bolt.
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Old January 22, 2020, 08:41   #23
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Home Depot.

Chainsaw file.

Snap it in the middle.

Dress the ends so the ends dont act like a chisel when you get sloppy while filing.

Keep the long piece on your workbench.
Keep the short piece in your range bag.

If you have to choose between the thick one and the skinny one, get the skinny one.
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Old January 22, 2020, 18:36   #24
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I'm with all saying to re-profile the ejection port on the DSA mount. Stick the factory cover on. Look at the big farggin' hole the brass has for flingafication. The factory worked before so, die grind/dremel the doggy snot out of the DSA stuff cause, it's just stuff so, grind so there is no obstruction of the flinging of brass.

It's not like DSA stuff is rare valuable stuff like real FN stuff ya know.
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Old March 28, 2020, 13:48   #25
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Ok, long overdue update.

I ground back a good amount of material on the DSA mount and tried to "angle" it for the casing to bounce outward and upward.

recorded some live firing in slow-mo and it still twirls off the ejector, bounces on the dsa mount port and bounces outward at about 35-40 degrees off muzzle.

Better.

It appears the case pivots 150 degrees before it hits the DSA mount.
I also know that with the factory dustcover (which, by the way, sits INSIDE the receiver width) the brass bounces off the dustcover port as well.

I'm wondering if this means the ejector is too long. or at least longer than it needs to be.

Here's my question: besides adjusting ejector tip angle and such, would making the ejector shorter result in the brass ejecting WITHOUT coming all the way around until it hits the DSA mount port?
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Old March 28, 2020, 15:20   #26
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If you start hacking on the ejector, how much work will it be to fix THAT mess when it goes badly?

Bevel on face maybe OK.

Shortening?.... Aw hell naw!
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Old March 28, 2020, 15:36   #27
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Call me weird (and you will be getting there) but in my book, if it works fine with an original cover, leave the ejector, extractor, and other rifle bits alone and then figure out what the DSA cover has that is odd.

In other words, see what the problem follows.
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Old March 28, 2020, 17:25   #28
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i think i'll smooth out the scope mount as much as possible and go with it.
Made a few kisses on the ejector and didn't notice much difference.
Thanks for the help folks. Good to be back in reliable mode.

60+ rounds and no problems. Very happy.
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