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Old April 05, 2020, 09:38   #51
gunplumber
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I know how old you are, I was messing with you.

Your obsession with barrels misses my point- it doesn't matter how you get there, if more of your shots hit the bullseye you have improved accuracy.

What you are talking about is precision which isn't the same thing.
You brought up barrels. I was correcting your erroneous assertions. Which I continue to do. Even as you change your story.

You cannot do lots to make a FAL more accurate, and nothing at all to make the barrel more accurate. What we can do, are small things to reduce operator variables and to reduce the shooter's negative impact on the barrel.

Other than improving the trigger, no amount of hand honing, plating with NP3, or rubbing by a DSA's snake oil saleswhore, will do anything to make it shoot "better".
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Old April 05, 2020, 10:23   #52
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Question to those who really know...

How much more accurate overall is a SCAR-17 vs a 18" barrel new modern FAL?

Why?
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Old April 05, 2020, 11:21   #53
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Question to those who really know...

How much more accurate overall is a SCAR-17 vs a 18" barrel new modern FAL?

Why?
The scar will shoot sub moa easily, an 18" fal will on average shoot 2-4" groups
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Old April 05, 2020, 11:37   #54
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With handloads you may get sub-moa "easily", but with factory loaded match, even those who are sub-moa shooters still hover around 1 MOA. Me, I'm a 1-1/4 MOA shooter on a good day, and that's what my SCARs do. Far better than a FAL, and 1 MOA is excellent. But it's not sub MOA "easily". That's Hornaday and FGMM, at least from my experience with better shooters than me pulling the trigger.

I do find it curious that a WWII era garand that could do consistent 4 MOA was pulled as a "match" rifle.

But we're also looking at a standard of 40 rounds, extreme spread of 8" at 200.

I'm far more interested in what the extreme spread of a rifle is, through a 20 round magazine, than the best 3 round group of the day.

And I think this is where the SCAR outperforms - no annoying vertical stringing.

And while the factory trigger is unimpressive, the ability to drop in a 4# two stage match trigger is wonderful.
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Old April 05, 2020, 11:39   #55
Invictus77
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The scar will shoot sub moa easily, an 18" fal will on average shoot 2-4" groups
There is (mostly) a lot of truth there regarding the capabilities of the rifles. It should be noted however that anything under 1 MOA then go on to depending on the capabilities of the trigger puller. Shooting "sub MOA" does not come "easily".
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Old April 05, 2020, 12:50   #56
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There is (mostly) a lot of truth there regarding the capabilities of the rifles. It should be noted however that anything under 1 MOA then go on to depending on the capabilities of the trigger puller. Shooting "sub MOA" does not come "easily".
I guess easily is a bit of a stretch with a giessele trigger and a stable shooting stance and or position along with good ammo sub moa is definitely possible.
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Old April 05, 2020, 12:55   #57
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My take on the accuracy issue, is bolt lock up. Bolts with lugs on the front are going to be more accurate than bolts with lugs on the rear. The SCAR 17's bolt mirrors the AR15 and AR10 they, when built with quality parts, and free floated barrels, are easily 1 MOA, and with a good shooter can deliver 1/2 MOA groups, I can do it occasionally, but not every time I go to the range.

The FAL bolt locks up at the rear, thus the front end of the bolt is free to land where it lands. it's not consistent. Consistency equals accuracy, I believe that is why your SCAR 17 or AR10 will always out shoot an FAL.

I REALLY like my FALs they are great combat rifles. I have a short barrel FAL just under 16" with a permanently attached combo device, that I've shot out to 700 yards (with a spotter) open sights usually hitting the target on the second or third round, as the wind is always doing weird things out in the AZ desert. 700 yards was with a spotter, wouldn't have had a chance other wise.

While the FAL is a great battle rifle, If you want MOA or Sub-MOA accuracy build a quality AR10. I spent lots of money, and learned the hard way.
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