The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapon Specific Forums > The L1A1, inch-pattern, and Indian Files

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 12, 2019, 05:59   #1
Fallujahgrunt
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
Fallujahgrunt's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 80766
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Pompano Beach, Fl
Posts: 575
Would a L1A1/C1A1/FAL Parkerizing service be helpful?

Guys, firstly, I'm a factory certified LE Glock, Remington 870 and M4/M16 Armorer...only putting that out there to assure folks that I'm no Bubba.

I've been Parkerizing for years using Manganese Phosphate (Dark charcoal) and doing a successful and professional job for friends and myself. The work looks Military factory fresh and have numerous photos and references here on the files.

I'm thinking of expanding my services to members here on the files and wanted to gauge interest in a need for a Parkerizing service at a reasonable cost, quality work and MOST IMPORTANTLY.... under a 2 week turn around door to door. I could handle small parts, bolt carriers, barrels, and lowers....ect. I can do everything but receivers as I'm not an FFL or Manufacturer.

Just looking into "How real is the need and interest" before I up my game and operation for this service.

Looking for some guidance.

Respectfully
Fallujahgrunt
__________________

Last edited by Fallujahgrunt; September 12, 2019 at 06:09.
Fallujahgrunt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 06:37   #2
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,615
My question: Do you bead blast the parts before applying phosphate or apply fresh phosphate over the existing finish?
Have you considered a green/gray phosphate finish for WWII small arms?

I would guess the Manganese Phosphate would be more applicable to AR type rifles? The Canadian L1A1's are a more medium to darker gray finish, however the actual gray pantina may differ from part to part. The Australian L1A1 has a green/gray patina which darkens over time.

Thanks.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 06:47   #3
Fallujahgrunt
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
Fallujahgrunt's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 80766
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Pompano Beach, Fl
Posts: 575
I bead blast parts to bare metal using an industrial bead blaster with fine media. Then degrease each part with a degreasing solution. I also use fresh parkerizing solution each time to give a consistent finish on all parts.
Iíve found my finish mix closely matches Aussie and Canadian parts well. A lot has to do with strength of solution and time left in the solution.
__________________
Fallujahgrunt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 08:46   #4
Chester Nimitz
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 28033
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 185
I don't see how a manganese phosphate finish is true to AR type rifles, the only major steel component is the barrel.

While I don't have a need for Parkerizing service at the moment, I would welcome anyone who is reliable to send parts to for refinishing, especially east of the Mississippi.
Chester Nimitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 10:14   #5
pl521
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 74645
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,390
I would be interested depending on cost. A competitive price list for whole kit or separate parts will be helpful.
pl521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 10:32   #6
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallujahgrunt View Post
I bead blast parts to bare metal using an industrial bead blaster with fine media. Then degrease each part with a degreasing solution. I also use fresh parkerizing solution each time to give a consistent finish on all parts.
I’ve found my finish mix closely matches Aussie and Canadian parts well. A lot has to do with strength of solution and time left in the solution.
Thank you as it is important to know. The reason I had asked is a few years ago a member was parkerizing parts and kits at a very reasonable cost. Unfortunately, it didn't take long for some rust to appear on the parts and kits. It appears there was little or no pre-prep done to the parts.

I have read to obtain a green/gray pantina to the metal, oil or cosmoline (MIL-C-11796C Class 3) was added to the phosphate solution.
Have you had any experience with this?
Several years ago I had a company refinish a M1 Carbine and an Australian L1A1 in green/gray and was very pleased with the results.

As a positive marketing tool, a photo of one of your refinished L1A1's would be appriciated.
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 11:05   #7
Fallujahgrunt
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
Fallujahgrunt's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 80766
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Pompano Beach, Fl
Posts: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakTo View Post
Thank you as it is important to know. The reason I had asked is a few years ago a member was parkerizing parts and kits at a very reasonable cost. Unfortunately, it didn't take long for some rust to appear on the parts and kits. It appears there was little or no pre-prep done to the parts.

I have read to obtain a green/gray pantina to the metal, oil or cosmoline (MIL-C-11796C Class 3) was added to the phosphate solution.
Have you had any experience with this?
Several years ago I had a company refinish a M1 Carbine and an Australian L1A1 in green/gray and was very pleased with the results.

As a positive marketing tool, a photo of one of your refinished L1A1's would be appriciated.
For me a successful job the most important part is the prep work and fresh parkerizing solution each time. Iíll get some pics up soon Iím on the range today with my PD.
__________________
Fallujahgrunt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 11:29   #8
Fallujahgrunt
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
Fallujahgrunt's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 80766
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Pompano Beach, Fl
Posts: 575
Here’s a little teaser.
1st pic is an Aussie lower. Next pics are an enterprise ANBI with screwed up block pins. Pins were ground flush then parked. Last 3 pics are finished project

5870005-E-6-A5-B-4-ECA-A3-A3-1-AB911-F770-FB
EB32-F301-F87-D-4137-85-D3-40-BD8-D4-CE3-BE
5-EE0642-B-B721-4115-9231-82-F5-C1-C8-F213
CD391659-4-D72-46-F5-BE80-4-C9-EAF25392-B
CCE528-AA-F175-4963-B7-E9-8-D48-D041641-E
D360-B3-E7-B4-C7-4-A54-8-B75-A044-A7438-C7-B
E9-C1-DD20-C128-417-B-8159-D53-AB35-BA733
B8-E5-AD63-1-CD6-49-DA-9806-E74-B17094-F21
__________________
Fallujahgrunt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 11:39   #9
Fallujahgrunt
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
Fallujahgrunt's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 80766
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Pompano Beach, Fl
Posts: 575
Here’s another ANBI I did, a Stoll flash hider, and Aussie bayonet, another lower.....sorry the before and after order screwed up on a few

F4-A4-E04-B-2614-4-CD4-A981-BC47-B4-EDEEAF
23366-FFD-BA9-C-4200-BA7-F-6-AE420-B78-F75
8470-C10-C-81-CF-4-FF7-8-A71-E79-AF753144-C
E78-D544-E-88-A4-45-E2-A2-DF-3-ABA6817-E144
15-D766-C9-71-F6-43-A2-9-FFB-9943732901-CD
9-A39-CEEE-CB9-E-479-E-B321-EEEDD553-B3-AC
232-A4539-7-A94-4085-A36-E-3-CEEE3-B105-EA
B2-A46-CCF-0309-4-AAC-AE05-6558664698-BB
A0746-DCC-CB28-473-C-97-AF-DE5972-A19-B80
9-C91-C433-FB2-E-40-EF-A229-DBB8488-C3-D2-E
25-EAC519-1-E73-4-ABD-BC7-E-0-CD507103665
0935-DB05-F12-C-45-BB-8912-9-EA35-BF16912
9176-F83-E-FE96-44-F8-9283-27-AD1-E1-B65-BA
841-ADC35-69-DB-4-C5-A-8217-4-B8-C3-D82-C0-E3
__________________
Fallujahgrunt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 11:46   #10
Fallujahgrunt
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
Fallujahgrunt's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 80766
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Pompano Beach, Fl
Posts: 575
A barrel, a bolt carrier, ect...

6-B2-F4-CAC-D7-BD-423-F-877-A-951-A1-EB25-AA0
1-F0976-B1-7027-4-C17-8557-4896-C3-A3807-B
BFA1577-B-CC86-4-F71-8-C36-EB71-CCB7-B5-E0
3-ABF0499-2-CF0-4301-A52-D-72-D45014-F4-EE
D8-A20621-6-B82-4-E14-ABE5-8-D6-D33-FBBE51
94-F0-A5-A1-DCD3-4-DB1-9-CB8-95331297-CFE1
451782-FB-B1-DB-4-D50-847-F-4-CA62-DA069-D8
17710-D82-54-B6-48-D5-A256-12274-A850-AD4
F239-BBA2-79-FA-4732-A766-8-FAD6-A48-F4-DA
__________________
Fallujahgrunt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 12:56   #11
pl521
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 74645
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,390
Looks professional job! Very nice.
pl521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 14:08   #12
The Chief
Curio & Relic
Silver Contributor
 
The Chief's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76457
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Ft. Eustis, VA
Posts: 2,620
Seth has parked several items for me (some are in above photos), and they've all turned out exactly as I wanted. Much of the Aussie parts did come out a lighter grey, but not too light. One must also take into account that, the photographs show the newly refinished items with the preservative heavy oil applied, which causes them to appear darker than they really are.

I would imagine that, through the years of oiling the parts through routine maintenance, the finish would eventually turn grey-green. I've also accelerated that patina by applying cold blue solution, although it's a challenge to get an even finish on larger parts.

That said, I think the target market here would be those of us who have a few items, say, a lower, bolt carrier, muzzle device, and handguard ring, they want done to finish off a build quickly. This would likely also be most beneficial to those who build their own rifles (vs sending then off).

Sending (5) items with a $xx dollar bill, and getting them back in 10 days is the real draw for me, rather than my parts getting put in a queue, behind 37 full builds at ARS or BSA (Dr Shock). Both of those guys do AMAZING work, but the build/refinish queues do foment a niche market to get a few parts done with a fast turn-around. THAT should be the target here, with a de-facto 'non-compete clause' because Seth is catering to a different builder demographic. Make sense?

Is he capable of doing a full kit? Absolutely. However, it might defeat the purpose, because the prep work associated with refinishing a full kit is extensive; the cost and return timeframe would reflect this, also. I cannot speak more highly of the refinish quality I have experienced working with Seth, and the speed by which I receive my parts back is phenomenal. I think the service he is offering is a solid one, and it can provide big value to those who want a few parts done quickly.
__________________
COBC #66
FarkŽn SnÍekee BastÔtch
(formerly 'Capt D')
The Chief is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 15:41   #13
mp
Registered
 
mp's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 654
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 3,142
I think the biggest problem with your business plan is the inability to do receivers. Unless you are painting after park, it sucks to have a freshly, matching parked kit, and the receiver is a different shade.
mp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 15:48   #14
Snake Bitten
Senior Member
Bronze Contributor
 
Snake Bitten's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 13425
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 646
I would be interested in getting some FAL mags parked. I don't mind bead blasting them myself before sending them to you, just a thought on pricing your services.

Edit: I have a box full of mags, not just a couple....
__________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. H. Albright (1876 - 1944)

Guns have two enemies: Rust and Politicians

Last edited by Snake Bitten; September 12, 2019 at 16:53.
Snake Bitten is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 15:56   #15
FUUN063
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 35576
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Converse, Indiana
Posts: 6,904
I've parkerized for 30 years or so and I gotta say this. If you add oil or WD-40 to your park solution, it's then junk. The gray-green patina is formed from years of having that grease, oil, hands-rubbed-on-it, etc. Yes, it can be faked, but there are different shades of that patina in different places and one can tell the original by looking in areas that don't get handled and such. With this said, I've all but retired from parkerizing, some of which is because the time involved vs. the money that is made. Sand blasters eat themselves up. I mainly do my own and a few members stuff now and that's my choice. I could have all the work I want just here alone, not counting the countless Harley Davidson and Indian motorcycle parts that are also parkerized. Normally, my turn around time (especially for The Chief) was 1 or 2 days tops. I don't like parts sitting around that are not mine. Others cannot claim this because they have a back log. I simply did not sleep much and would stay up and do the parts and have them back in the shipping box while they were still warm. Not bragging, just giving some of my experience. Guys appreciate a turn around time that's quick because, well you know, we gotta get that build done NOW! Haha.


Good luck.

PS. I degrease prior to sandblasting so it don't get in my sandblaster. I made a few write ups in the Gunsmithing section, as others have, if you would like to read about them (not that you don't know what you are doing).



Leland
FUUN063 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 16:12   #16
Fallujahgrunt
Senior Member
Silver Contributor
 
Fallujahgrunt's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 80766
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Pompano Beach, Fl
Posts: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp View Post
I think the biggest problem with your business plan is the inability to do receivers. Unless you are painting after park, it sucks to have a freshly, matching parked kit, and the receiver is a different shade.
When I have a SN matching Canadian kit or Stg Kit with DSA LMT receivers, yeah I send to gunplumber as I want it perfect and correct. I’m thinking more of the guy who wants his Brit or Aussie bolt carrier sterilized and re parked or the guy who just needs a few of his expensive smalls reparked (change levers , take down levers and so on). I’m not trying to corner the market here just gauging interest in a service w fast turn around.

Here’s a funny story and a true story ....before I knew how to park I needed a trench gun bolt parkerized....I waited 6 weeks, was charged $55 and it looked like shit (blotchy).

If I could have paid $40 , has it in a week and perfect wow would I have been happy......see my point?
__________________
Fallujahgrunt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 16:21   #17
DakTo
MadMinuteDude
Platinum Contributor
 
DakTo's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 9689
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Indian River, Florida
Posts: 8,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp View Post
I think the biggest problem with your business plan is the inability to do receivers. Unless you are painting after park, it sucks to have a freshly, matching parked kit, and the receiver is a different shade.
Those photos show excellent workmanship with phosphate.

DSA does a decent Park finish on their receivers and perhaps a little dark with the Phosphate. Perhaps consider sending Seth a good quality photo of your DSA receiver along with the disassembled kit and he can provide a close match?
There are a few tricks to darken the parts and one is to oil down the fresh park asap. Try some oil with dark coloring.
I once received a kit back which the park was too light for my satisfaction. I doused the parts with used motor oil and baked them in a garage oven. It smoked up the entire garage but the finished product was a slate gray like a M14. (Don't try that in your kitchen)
__________________
NEVER touch another man's fries.
DakTo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 16:32   #18
crashmaniac
Semper Gumby
Gold Contributor
 
crashmaniac's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 78557
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SENC
Posts: 140
I do my own building, and painting/refinishing/baking myself, but thats not to say a bunch of things arent outta my realm. I dont parker, I use ARS too, But I love to have someone who can repark an L1A1 bolt carrier etc quick if Im trying to match to a kit or to do small parts so I can then do a good paint over park finish.

Not that I want to paint over Seths work lol , but parkerizing is another thing I dont have to do, and if its done correctly then oiled it will match fine. Military guns match for shit anyway, as long as it doesnt rust. Sethís work is top notch and I get the stuff back quick too. Because yes .... I do have to get the precious built QUICKLY yeees yes.


__________________
"And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ".
--Good OL' TJ
crashmaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 17:04   #19
STGguy
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 81733
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Charlotte/ NC
Posts: 398
Park Work- +1 !!

So, I be the guy that Seth did the: Stolle FH, Barrel, Carrier and Bolt for.. I have to say, his work, turn around time, attention to detail, prep work, the finish, then personal things like communication, fairness even over the top packaging in return shipping that I learned a few things from... are first class and I'm def. using him again for any of my park. needs...

Last edited by STGguy; September 13, 2019 at 09:45.
STGguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 21:13   #20
raexcct2
Registered
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 2784
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UTAH
Posts: 3,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallujahgrunt View Post
Guys, firstly, I'm a factory certified LE Glock, Remington 870 and M4/M16 Armorer...only putting that out there to assure folks that I'm no Bubba.

I've been Parkerizing for years using Manganese Phosphate (Dark charcoal) and doing a successful and professional job for friends and myself. The work looks Military factory fresh and have numerous photos and references here on the files.

I'm thinking of expanding my services to members here on the files and wanted to gauge interest in a need for a Parkerizing service at a reasonable cost, quality work and MOST IMPORTANTLY.... under a 2 week turn around door to door. I could handle small parts, bolt carriers, barrels, and lowers....ect. I can do everything but receivers as I'm not an FFL or Manufacturer.

Just looking into "How real is the need and interest" before I up my game and operation for this service.

Looking for some guidance.

Respectfully
Fallujahgrunt
Hell yes there is a need. I have a bunch of parts kits and individual parts that I need refinished.
raexcct2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12, 2019, 21:17   #21
raexcct2
Registered
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 2784
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UTAH
Posts: 3,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Bitten View Post
I would be interested in getting some FAL mags parked. I don't mind bead blasting them myself before sending them to you, just a thought on pricing your services.

Edit: I have a box full of mags, not just a couple....
Me too. I have boxes of magazines but I don't have a bead blaster.
raexcct2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14, 2019, 22:23   #22
adam762
Registered
 
adam762's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 11334
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Washington Court House, OH
Posts: 4,198
Yes there is a need. But you just can't be cheap. Jared Lewman was 'the parkerizer' and he took in tons of work, promising fast turnarounds and cheap prices. He JACKED up a lot of parts. I saw one kit that was so pathetic I took it in and refinished the whole thing for free for the member (who I had done quite a bit of business with by then) just to fix the travesty.

Many of us here have parkerized for many years. A few have done it large scale. Me? I'm just a hobbyist at this stage. But my fourth generation temperature controlled electric park tank is coming along nicely. Love having an aircraft sheet metal shop at my disposal.

__________________
When is the bleeding going to stop?
Charter Member, Knob Creek Book Club
adam762 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15, 2019, 10:52   #23
Lee Carpentieri
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 4936
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Florida Where it's Hot and Humid
Posts: 6,844
Fallujahgrunt's parkerizing

I've seen Seth's work first hand, It's second to None. His attention to detail is quite amazing.
__________________
Live life to the fullest, Because in the end there's only death and taxs.
Lee Carpentieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15, 2019, 11:07   #24
lysanderxiii
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 70039
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: West Harlow, NC
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chester Nimitz View Post
I don't see how a manganese phosphate finish is true to AR type rifles, the only major steel component is the barrel.

While I don't have a need for Parkerizing service at the moment, I would welcome anyone who is reliable to send parts to for refinishing, especially east of the Mississippi.
Actually, of the one hundred-twenty-ish parts that make up an AR, only a few the parts are not steel.

Aluminum:
Upper Receiver
Lower Receiver
Receiver Extension
Buffer Body
Hand Guard Slip Ring
Charging Handle Body
Magazine Release Button

Plastic:
Hand Guard
Butt Stock
Butt Plate

Everything else is steel.
lysanderxiii is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 17, 2019, 12:29   #25
Chester Nimitz
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 28033
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 185
I was reacting to DAKTOs concerns about maganese color good for AR rifles, where the majority of exposed parts are aluminum. However, I can see the necessity for zinc on early retro AR 1960s steel parts.

I welcome any new parkerizing service and welcome Falluja Grunts Services, even if he does not offer anodizing service, I have sent out many parts in the past for refinishing, including bayonets, etc.
Chester Nimitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13, 2019, 20:17   #26
ExCdnSoldierInTx
Old Fart
Gold Contributor
 
ExCdnSoldierInTx's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 65552
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Central Merca
Posts: 7,724
Iíd be interested in finding someone who can do a real Canadian style metal finish.

Canadian rifles werenít given that typical drab, rough park job you see on so many rifles.
They have a smooth, almost blued looking finish, and Iíve yet to find anyone who can accurately reproduce that look.
__________________
" .... basically you'd have to take them head-on, penetrating 4-6 'yotas per round, to avoid wasting ammo." - Enquiring Minds 11/15/15
ExCdnSoldierInTx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13, 2019, 20:59   #27
def90
Dinosaur
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 12,497
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExCdnSoldierInTx View Post
Iíd be interested in finding someone who can do a real Canadian style metal finish.

Canadian rifles werenít given that typical drab, rough park job you see on so many rifles.
They have a smooth, almost blued looking finish, and Iíve yet to find anyone who can accurately reproduce that look.
Yeah, a lot of people confuse a military grade black oxide/blue finish as being park.
__________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live.
def90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14, 2019, 05:12   #28
FUUN063
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 35576
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Converse, Indiana
Posts: 6,904
Ex, way back when, I would park stuff for people to include Canadian stuff. Then, we used a ceramic type of "dust" for blasting that made the metal much smoother or finer prior to parkerizing. It turned out great, but I can no longer get that ceramic stuff. It lasted a really long time, but was hard on sand blaster parts/motor bearing because it was fine enough to get around some filters (even the "fines" bag).


Leland
FUUN063 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2019 The FAL Files