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Old February 14, 2020, 10:32   #1
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Not sure what to do with all that land

It looks like the the 5 Big Tribes in Okieland might squeak out a win in court and get over 10 million acres and cover nearly all of eastern Oklahoma. Now assuming thelaw is actually followed for once and the land is returned I am trying to imagine what is the best course of action regarding all those non-tribal members on my land. Charge em rent? Maybe work out some type of treaty with them? Any suggestions?

https://www.indianz.com/News/2019/10...o-return-e.asp

https://www.cherokee.org/about-the-nation/maps/

Some terf by Tenkiller Lake would be nice but getting a monthly rent check would be sweet.
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Old February 14, 2020, 11:20   #2
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Put all non-tribals in a camp, start proxy wars with the surrounding states, all while lobbying DC., to fund it all! Follow the existing paradigm, there is one already!
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Old February 14, 2020, 11:34   #3
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SCOTUS has ruled that "Laches" applies to all old claims.

SCOTUS did rule that native American Tribes can BUY as much land as they want and put it into trust, "Land into Trust."

Local Oneida Tribe has done that a bit.

They bought up 10,000 acres and let it go wild with some farmland to raise beef cattle.

That went away when they could not find anyone to manage the beef cattle.
Funny that they found out that farmers work for almost nothing, but hired help will not.

The now overgrown land lays fallow; Oneidas do not hunt much today either.
However there is room for a cigarette factory.

A new DisneyLand attraction WAS being planned to draw in visitors, but competing Casinos have been built all over, cutting down the base of potential visitors. and available cash.

Owning too much land invites squatters, timber theives, and general management headaches.

Buffalo roaming again, will cause major headaches for railroads and Interstate/local highways.
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Old February 14, 2020, 11:38   #4
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It looks like the the 5 Big Tribes in Okieland might squeak out a win in court and get over 10 million acres and cover nearly all of eastern Oklahoma. Now assuming thelaw is actually followed for once and the land is returned I am trying to imagine what is the best course of action regarding all those non-tribal members on my land. Charge em rent? Maybe work out some type of treaty with them? Any suggestions?

https://www.indianz.com/News/2019/10...o-return-e.asp

https://www.cherokee.org/about-the-nation/maps/

Some terf by Tenkiller Lake would be nice but getting a monthly rent check would be sweet.
I bet you'll get a big, fat check real soon.

On "your land"?

Who was on it before it was given to you?
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Old February 14, 2020, 12:31   #5
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Might have to call up Trump Jr for some ideas. Something like a flat tax on non tribals might work like muzzies use on non muzzies. Since Tulsa is on tribal land that place alone could generate wuite a beef stake. There are bout 400,000 people in Tulsa x $500 per head = $20,000,000, utility easements, oil & gas, sweet.
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Old February 14, 2020, 12:38   #6
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Might have to call up Trump Jr for some ideas. Something like a flat tax on non tribals might work like muzzies use on non muzzies. Since Tulsa is on tribal land that place alone could generate wuite a beef stake. There are bout 400,000 people in Tulsa x $500 per head = $20,000,000, utility easements, oil & gas, sweet.
Good idea. How you going to enforce this?
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Old February 14, 2020, 12:41   #7
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Quite a leap going from a SC decision on jurisdiction in a murder case to the big $$$ payday.

I wouldn't rack up the credit cards just yet.






..........juanni
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Old February 14, 2020, 12:45   #8
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My brother married an Indian and she was one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen. Her tribe built a casino and my brothers son works there making really good money. Her tribe doesn't have a lot of land but they turned it into a bonanza from their people.

It's not how much land you own, it's your ambition to make what you own work for you.
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Old February 14, 2020, 12:52   #9
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My brother married an Indian and she was one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen. Her tribe built a casino and my brothers son works there making really good money. Her tribe doesn't have a lot of land but they turned it into a bonanza from their people.

It's not how much land you own, it's your ambition to make what you own work for you.
I married an Indian, and yes, she is beautiful.
She didn't rely on the tribe for crap, got her nursing license, then her RN, then her BSN, now she's a CRNA with a doctorate.

Individual hard work and ambition is the enemy of "victim status" groups.
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Old February 14, 2020, 13:28   #10
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We gots two tribes with casinos here in CT. The Mohegans have parlayed their casinos success by diversifying into different businesses and enterprises. The Mashantuckets have mismanaged everything they’ve touched.
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Old February 14, 2020, 13:36   #11
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I married an Indian, and yes, she is beautiful.
She didn't rely on the tribe for crap, got her nursing license, then her RN, then her BSN, now she's a CRNA with a doctorate.

Individual hard work and ambition is the enemy of "victim status" groups.
Everyone loved my brothers wife, she had a very rare heart and soul. I was working on the east side of the state and didn't go home on the weekend. My brothers wife looked me up and asked if I wanted to go deer hunting. She took me to one of her spots and I killed a nice fork horn. While I gutted it out she busted a three point that was standing fifty yards from me watching.

That 250 Savage 99 in her hands killed many deer.
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Old February 14, 2020, 20:31   #12
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Well if her current gig doesn’t pan out, Liz Warren may now have options in OK
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Old February 14, 2020, 21:01   #13
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Socialist, Communist or Moon Worshipping Indians I can see,,, but not wild Indians in one place,,, there are no existing hieroglyphics to support there claims,,, all signed treaty's were to placate there childish tantrums until we could get them all dead drunk, just dead or screwed white.
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Old February 14, 2020, 21:29   #14
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Well if her current gig doesn’t pan out, Liz Warren may now have options in OK
Yeah but if she gets involved, the Tribes will only get 1/1024th of the land.
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Old February 14, 2020, 21:41   #15
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Socialist, Communist or Moon Worshipping Indians I can see,,, but not wild Indians in one place,,, there are no existing hieroglyphics to support there claims,,, all signed treaty's were to placate there childish tantrums until we could get them all dead drunk, just dead or screwed white.
Bwahahahaha !!!
you really are a cranky old bastard
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Old February 14, 2020, 23:21   #16
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Martin,

If one did not know better, one would think we have a bunch of nazi indians around here. You see this symbol in many places.
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Old February 15, 2020, 00:41   #17
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Martin,

If one did not know better, one would think we have a bunch of nazi indians around here. You see this symbol in many places.
Indians superseded the Nazi's by several millennium,,, they had many of the same unpleasant ways of dealing with people they didn't like,,, we had to teach'em how to scalp,,, poor ignorant and happy bastards,,, until some booger eat'em.
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Old February 15, 2020, 08:18   #18
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I am trying to imagine what is the best course of action regarding all those non-tribal members on my land.

It's not your land dumbass
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Old February 15, 2020, 10:02   #19
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I thought the US fought for and stole all the land fair and square.
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Old February 15, 2020, 10:05   #20
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There is hope for the Indians because the world gave Israel back to the jews. Heck maybe the world will vote to give America back to the indians. After all it is their homeland.
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Old February 15, 2020, 10:16   #21
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Martin,

If one did not know better, one would think we have a bunch of nazi indians around here. You see this symbol in many places.
Most folks don't realize that you see this on just about every commercial vehicle in India.
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Old February 15, 2020, 10:48   #22
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Most folks don't realize that you see this on just about every commercial vehicle in India.
I pass India on my way to wallyworld every week.
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Old February 15, 2020, 13:33   #23
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Nobody gave Israel to the Jews, they've been there for 3,000 years. Many other empires have come and gone, conquered and lost. History is full of such adventures.

The Indians lost the war and the land was settled by the conquerers. Same as it's always been.
If the Indians want more land than they currently posses, they need to do it the tried an true way. They need to go to war and win this time.
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Old February 15, 2020, 13:42   #24
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Nobody gave Israel to the Jews, they've been there for 3,000 years. Many other empires have come and gone, conquered and lost. History is full of such adventures.

The Indians lost the war and the land was settled by the conquerers. Same as it's always been.
If the Indians want more land than they currently posses, they need to do it the tried an true way. They need to go to war and win this time.
In 1948 the United Nations voted to let the Jews have their homeland back. They became the official government of their land and that wasn't going to happen at that time without the world voting for it.

I suggest if you intend on going the warpath route then read up on the history of your people. It was written by white men because for all the generations of Indians living in America they couldn't even write their own history. If you think you can beat today's intigrated America you might want to use the courts.
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Old February 15, 2020, 18:37   #25
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Not really

The UN decided to end the British Mandate on May 15, 1948. David Ben-Gurion declare Israel to be a nation on May 14, 1948. The Arab League declared war against Israel on May 15, 1948.

Strangely, it was the Soviet Union to first recognize Israel as a nation May 17, 1948. The US followed suite January 13, 1949

It's disingenuous to say Israel was given anything. They declared themselves a country and started fighting a war the next day to make the declaration valid.

I don't plan on going on any warpath. Quite the contrary, I suggested Indians go on a warpath and try to win this time around.
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Old February 15, 2020, 18:47   #26
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Are there many full blooded Indians left?
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Old February 15, 2020, 19:39   #27
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Are there many full blooded Indians left?
Good number north of us in Canada
likely a decent share among the Navaho

past that the vast majority of band members on reservations are highly mixed
In the 80s there were still oldsters that were full blood on Red Lake but their grandkids intermarried with at best mixed folks or in many cases straight non natives.

As recently as the late 90s I knew Blackfoot elders in Montana that were full bloods, old fry bread ladies but they too had married mixed on the Rez or went outright White

Same in the Dakotas, might still be a handful of full bloods on Standing Rock
Knew folks my age there that were

Florida Seminole are seriously mixed, mostly Black infusions there
I doubt there is a pure blooded native in Oklahomo
absolutely Zero in New England

Locally natives have been marrying Hmong girls
pretty similar cultures in many ways and those Laos Ladies tend to keep their men focused so it's a great mashup

I'm still real tight with natives
this notion of blood is meaningless in their greater culture, always was
in North Dakota they had a term: "Blueberry Blondes"
See when the Dakotas were opened to homestead claim gals were in short supply. Invariably some of those Men from Norway and Germany took native ladies as brides resulting in a spate of sexy young Blondes with native complexions...serious Wife material. They could shoot/hunt as good as Men, were not adverse to cutting game up, loved their gardens, canning, cooking, etc
I have cousins who are Band members on the Belcourt Rez in ND
lord is that place a willy nilly fusion of the greater genetic pool
interestingly 2 or 3 gals from that rez ended up as playmates of the month in Playboy...some devastatingly good looking ladies come out of that area and it's all due to the genetic hodgepodge
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Old February 15, 2020, 19:52   #28
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I pass India on my way to wallyworld every week.
Maybe you and ole 0302 can meet up and be range pardners out in the badlands of Okielahoma. See if he's got a spare hoss and a saddle with a pickup and trailer too for hauling them around. I ain't hiking around and doing peyote
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Old February 15, 2020, 19:56   #29
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Not really

The UN decided to end the British Mandate on May 15, 1948. David Ben-Gurion declare Israel to be a nation on May 14, 1948. The Arab League declared war against Israel on May 15, 1948.

Strangely, it was the Soviet Union to first recognize Israel as a nation May 17, 1948. The US followed suite January 13, 1949

It's disingenuous to say Israel was given anything. They declared themselves a country and started fighting a war the next day to make the declaration valid.

I don't plan on going on any warpath. Quite the contrary, I suggested Indians go on a warpath and try to win this time around.
nothing strange about it, many Euro Jews who migrated to Palestine were hard core Marxists and modeled their colonies upon Stalinist principles

What is a Kibbutz' ?
it's literally a collective farm

The new Nation was damn' close to becoming an organ of the Soviets in the late 40s which is why you end up with the remarkable story of Mickey Marcus who created what we now know as the IDF
Brooklyn Jew who couldn't speak hardly a word of Yiddish who was given a leave from the US Army to head to Israel under OSS supervision to train what were basically terrorists and all behind the backs of the English

I applaud what Marcus was able to do but when he hit boots on the ground, "Israel" was about like assclowns who have attempted to declare an internal nation here
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Old February 15, 2020, 20:07   #30
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Maybe you and ole 0302 can meet up and be range pardners out in the badlands of Okielahoma. See if he's got a spare hoss and a saddle with a pickup and trailer too for hauling them around. I ain't hiking around and doing peyote
LOL, I don't know if the Government still does this but back in the 80s the FDA would distribute government canned Peyote on certain reservations.
Was talked into partaking twice in sweat lodge ceremonies
The Federal product was skinned out, it is mostly the skin that you get bad reactions from like vomiting

I still don't advise consumption
White man garbage may blur up your reality
Native dope creates an alternate one...a different world so to speak
it's not at all like LSD
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Old February 16, 2020, 14:19   #31
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There is hope for the Indians because the world gave Israel back to the jews. Heck maybe the world will vote to give America back to the indians. After all it is their homeland.
Will "they" demand all the other batches of humanity leave too? Of course that will work.

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Old February 16, 2020, 14:26   #32
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Martin,

If one did not know better, one would think we have a bunch of nazi indians around here. You see this symbol in many places.
OHH LAWD!! I am sooooooooo offended!

Who lawyah I caw?

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Old February 16, 2020, 15:46   #33
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I don’t really want it all back, but feel some financial compensation is in order. Indians are magnanimous folks. Just truing to follow the laws yanno, laws made by the elected officials. But I know the tendencies of elected officials to lie, steal & cheat.
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Old February 16, 2020, 16:31   #34
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I don’t really want it all back, but feel some financial compensation is in order. Indians are magnanimous folks. Just truing to follow the laws yanno, laws made by the elected officials. But I know the tendencies of elected officials to lie, steal & cheat.
If ya want your lands back,,one,,pick up a rifle,,,two,,,form a big ass old army,,and three,,be prepared for one hell of a war.

Said another way,,,,I'd not be pre cashing (expected) checks,, thinking the SC is going to give your tribes control over any lands not all ready recognized as reservations.

Land belongs to those that can take it from another,,and hold onto it, until someone else comes along and takes it away.

Repeating as required,, down through history.
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Old February 16, 2020, 16:51   #35
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That's how they lost it in the first place. By losing the war

But they truly never owned the land in the first place. Sure, there were some Indians in some places but that's about it. The idea that it all belongs to them is pure foolishness.

Treaty from long ago or not, the land in question has been bought and sold many times since.
Think of its current owners. People that have lived there for generation. They worked hard to buy the land, work the land and built houses on the land.
Now it can be taken by some court ruling based on some treaty from the 1800s?
I don't think so.

No different from Blacks who want reparations when they were never slaves to begin with and the war ended long ago
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Old February 16, 2020, 17:01   #36
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You say this;
I don’t really want it all back, but feel some financial compensation is in order

At first it's about your feelings, then you want money. Which one is it? I bet it's about the money and it's really not about money from a court ruling. YOU want money. Reasoning or laws don't matter.

Then you say you, and other people presumably, need to follow laws made by elected officials. Are you talking about the last hundred years or so? The lands have been legally bought and sold many times over
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Old February 16, 2020, 19:44   #37
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I got a couple acres by lake Eufaula.

We could do something like this:



Or you can try to take it. Good luck with that.

Now mind you I might be interested in selling for the right price. Won't be cheap.
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Old February 16, 2020, 22:08   #38
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That's how they lost it in the first place. By losing the war

But they truly never owned the land in the first place. Sure, there were some Indians in some places but that's about it. The idea that it all belongs to them is pure foolishness.

Treaty from long ago or not, the land in question has been bought and sold many times since.
Think of its current owners. People that have lived there for generation. They worked hard to buy the land, work the land and built houses on the land.
Now it can be taken by some court ruling based on some treaty from the 1800s?
I don't think so.

No different from Blacks who want reparations when they were never slaves to begin with and the war ended long ago
Historically, I never knew Native American Indians to be possessive of anything. They were rather nomadic in lifestyle, and moved to wherever the food source took them. Like an old saying grampa once had when we were kids, "gotta move, teepee full of shit". Indians were typically not agrarian, yeah, some later planted maize(corn) and fertilized with a fish, but normally utilized the booty of the land.
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Old February 17, 2020, 05:56   #39
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No land is going to be taken from anyone. There may and probably will be a land or sales tax added with the proceeds going to the local tribes.

None of the money will do any good for the Indians. More booze, meth and weed will be bought and unemployment will go up but that's about it.

The Indians will sue again in 10 years for more money and they'll probably get it. Some day in the not so distant future, there'll be too few white people to extort money from. White guilt only works when you have white people,
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Old February 17, 2020, 07:22   #40
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No land is going to be taken from anyone. There may and probably will be a land or sales tax added with the proceeds going to the local tribes.

None of the money will do any good for the Indians. More booze, meth and weed will be bought and unemployment will go up but that's about it.

The Indians will sue again in 10 years for more money and they'll probably get it. Some day in the not so distant future, there'll be too few white people to extort money from. White guilt only works when you have white people,
I do believe you're on to something.
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Old February 17, 2020, 07:27   #41
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Martin,

If one did not know better, one would think we have a bunch of nazi indians around here. You see this symbol in many places.
You know this was the official emblem of the 45th Infantry until 1939/40?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45th_I...(United_States)

The swastika is a magical, ancient symbol. It works even today.

Applying the swastika correctly opens pockets, and closes discussion.

It's most commonly seen these day in faked "hate-crime" scenes.
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Old February 17, 2020, 07:55   #42
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You know this was the official emblem of the 45th Infantry until 1939/40?



The swastika is a magical, ancient symbol. It works even today.

Applying the swastika correctly opens pockets, and closes discussion.

It's most commonly seen these day in faked "hate-crime" scenes.
Yeah, I did, but the topic was Indians afterall.

I figured I'd get queued to stay on topic.
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Old February 17, 2020, 08:10   #43
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Yeah, I did, but the topic was Indians afterall.

I figured I'd get queued to stay on topic.
OK....since I'm Cherokee, and Tulsa lies within the Cherokee Nation according to the Indian Removal....I reckon I oughtta get a big check, too.

I'll probably just keep going to work every day though.
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Old February 17, 2020, 08:36   #44
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OK....since I'm Cherokee, and Tulsa lies within the Cherokee Nation according to the Indian Removal....I reckon I oughtta get a big check, too.

I'll probably just keep going to work every day though.
Same boat here, waiting on a check. Wife's great gramma had Cherokee #, but according to her DNA test, it's all been diluted out of her somehow, dang.

Through her great uncle, she is also related to lineage of the Drummond ranch empire, but we are not holding our breath for a check here either. Thankfully we chose to make it on our own in the meantime instead of waiting for something to fall in our laps.
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Old February 17, 2020, 08:51   #45
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Same boat here, waiting on a check. Wife's great gramma had Cherokee #, but according to her DNA test, it's all been diluted out of her somehow, dang.

Through her great uncle, she is also related to lineage of the Drummond ranch empire, but we are not holding our breath for a check here either. Thankfully we chose to make it on our own in the meantime instead of waiting for something to fall in our laps.
Yeah, Grandpa was Cherokee, even spoke it. (not many do) He grew up in the hills, dirt poor, raised his family through the Depression. Oddly enough he and his brothers all worked like dogs - they didn't get the memo someone owed them something. Hard times makes good men.
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Old February 17, 2020, 17:17   #46
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Yeah, Grandpa was Cherokee, even spoke it. (not many do) He grew up in the hills, dirt poor, raised his family through the Depression. Oddly enough he and his brothers all worked like dogs - they didn't get the memo someone owed them something. Hard times makes good men.
Fukk, everyone with any blood in Oklahomo claims to be "Cherokee"
note carefully none seem to claim Creek ancestry

Stayed out of this but I can give you an example how this plays out in the Courts.
Bands up here signed treaties before the War between the States and fully owned all of northern MN

Around the 1870s Congress just stole those lands and every year shrank native territory
This was all about lumber and mining
by the 1890s the once vast lands owned by natives in Northern MN were all but gone
sidebar fact:
where was the last Indian War ?

Leech Lake MN

What happened was Chief Bug went to the Great White Father's federal Court in Duluth where White found him in contempt
this was all over his band not being paid under Treaty
well the band posted bond for the Chief who retreated to the Lake

Fake news trumpeted INDIAN WAR so St. Paul sent up militia
real bad move
Natives actually were better armed, hosed the shit out of the suits with rifle fire from the shore while troops were still on the lake steamer
that was the end of the last Indian War in America
Walker MN museum at least used to have some relics from the conflict
The Chiefs 1875 Remington revolvers, some large frame Winchesters & Marlins. Not been back since they reorganized the museum years ago

Natives won that one, you hear nothing about it

So prior to the 70s bands sued the Goverenment
Huge cash payout
I remember savs driving new off the lot TransAms
most of the money was gobbled up by elders on the Councils though
your own people 3.2
but hey, you are just another example of a White guilt asshole in my opinion

Pay Me

pathetic
nope, not really blanket ass savages
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Old February 18, 2020, 07:09   #47
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Fukk, everyone with any blood in Oklahomo claims to be "Cherokee"
note carefully none seem to claim Creek ancestry
There's an entity in Tulsa called River Spirit Casino. There's the Creek Nation headquartered in Okmulgee. I myself live in Creek County, in Sapulpa - Sapulpa being named for a Creek Confederate soldier. There are many satellite casinos and smoke shops run by the Muskogee(Creek) Nation.

The population of Creek members is about 1/6 of the Cherokee - hardly an insignificant number.
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Old February 18, 2020, 23:49   #48
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Tulsa is in Creek jurisdiction.
Historical jurisdictions allow a tribe to keep all other tribes out of the historical jurisdiction. All reservations were eliminated after the Civil war. I like NE Okieland. Hilly with trees& creeks, lakes. I would’nt remove non-tribals, just charge rent, something reasonable.
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Old February 19, 2020, 00:46   #49
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How many blankets and beads are we talking about per acre?
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Old February 19, 2020, 09:25   #50
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How about nothing?
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