The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapons Discussion > Gunsmithing & Build It Yourself

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 13, 2019, 12:01   #1
WS1850
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 83180
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Manchester NH
Posts: 7
Barrel Threading Question

I am a new FAL owner and I recently picked up a ban era build on an Imbel receiver which has Pacific Armaments Corp stamped on it. When I bought it, I noticed the barrel was a little undertimed, but I figured I would be threading the barrel anyway so I could fix it. The rifle also came with several tools for disassembly and service. The rifle functioned fine when I test fired it, and I could zero it by driving the rear sight all the way to the right. I have it all torn down to the barrel now and the good news is that I think the barrel just wasn't torqued on right, it came right off by hand without the need for tools. It looks like the barrel is an STG, it has "kal 7.62m/m", a symbol, and then "61" stamped towards the flats. There is also a 5 digit serial number on the opposite side of those markings. It is a bipod cut barrel. The barrel measures only 20.5in long, so I am guessing that they just cut the threads off during the ban?

Based on what this barrel is, what are peoples opinions on whether I should have this barrel threaded or try to find a new barrel? 21in barrels with bipod cuts don't seem too easy to come by and I think I might run the risk of timing/headspace issues with a new barrel? I picked up a muzzle device and I was going to get some 9/16-24 LH threads, but my local gunsmiths are asking questions and/or telling me things that make me wary of having them do the job. Any recommendations on someone who can thread it if I decide to go that route?

I am looking for the threads so I can attach a flashider and also eventually get a Silencerco ASR mount so I can put my Omega on it. The built in bipod is one of my favorite features of the FAL, so I don't want to give that up either.

Thanks
WS1850 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13, 2019, 12:28   #2
1911Ron
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17513
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ft Mudge Az
Posts: 1,812
I would recommend 1 of 2 things, 1 Send it to Mark at https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/
along with your desired muzzle device and have him do it right or watch the market place as full length STG barrels do pop up from time to time and then send it to Mark for the work to be done.

I have read to many horror stories about "smiths" screwing things up, plus many average Smith's have no clue how to work on the FAL, I for one would not want my investment to ruined by a hack gunsmith. YMMV
__________________
FAL convert.
"Too old to fight, too slow to run, but I can still shoot pretty good!"

Last edited by 1911Ron; October 13, 2019 at 16:10.
1911Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13, 2019, 12:31   #3
CG&L
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 27951
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pine Grove, La.
Posts: 2,928
Threading the barrel is no problem but it's always better to have it threaded for the mount that's going to be used with a suppressor. It really doesn't make much difference but I recommend it for my customers.
__________________
RIP shlomo
CG&L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17, 2019, 11:00   #4
ActionYobbo
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 32542
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Flippin Arky
Posts: 998
You say its undertimed so hows your headspace now? It will get tighter when the barrel is wound in more. Its worth the $ to have it fixed by some one who actually knows what they are doing
__________________
“pomme de terre avec le visage d'un cochon d’inde”. Which translates as, “Potato with a guinea pig’s face”.
ActionYobbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18, 2019, 07:43   #5
alphadog58
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 9405
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SE CT
Posts: 3,792
Wow, not much traffic here anymore! If you can zero the sights it is not undertimed by very much. I doubt that the headspace will change significantly once you get it wound in and timed correctly. YMMV.
Larry
__________________
“He should be torn into itty bitty pieces and then buried alive!” Hanover Fiste in “Heavy Metal”
alphadog58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18, 2019, 10:25   #6
WS1850
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 83180
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Manchester NH
Posts: 7
Thanks for the input. I am probably going to send the barrel to ARS for threading. Doesn't look like a lot of barrels out there and the ones that are look pretty pricey.

I have the manual and tools from ARS to put it back together and I want to get this rifle back in action so I don't have the patience for waiting for an affordable barrel to pop up.
WS1850 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 04, 2019, 02:09   #7
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 6,685
Am negotiating a deal on three FALs right now (DSA factory build, G1 and a L1a1) owner had issues which would almost bet were just need to properly adjust gas and took to local smith. Now they will all need some work, one probably a barrel replacement to get them back right. Owner is above average intelligence and once showed him how one of my rifles shot 100% then misadjusted the gas said that was what all three of his were doing. Then showed him how much smith had champhered the chamber on one and ground feed ramps in uppers of others he needs to have smith send to GP and pay bill to put back how he received them but smith says they are fine and safe to fire but can't test fire at his shop and won't meet owner at range to show him how well they shoot for him. Believe he is going to take a small loss as purchased a long time ago cheap and left in vault for a decade before trying to fire any of them to make it my problem instead of his as he just wants enough cash to buy a pair of DPMS base model AR 10's.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 05, 2019, 11:52   #8
V guy
Dinosaur
Silver Contributor
 
V guy's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 10282
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: miami
Posts: 18,062
If you fired the gun with a barrel that simply unscrewed from the receiver, being only hand tight, that's a story in itself.

If the gun was assembled with a locking shoulder that was too big to headspace with that bbl, then unscrewing it until the go gage fit was probably what happened. Original builder probably simply used the LS that came with the kit.

The bbl would continue to try to unscrew when firing, held in place only by the gas tube and gas piston;

Get some advice on re-assembly and how to check the headspace.
V guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20, 2019, 20:52   #9
Parga
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 70964
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Marina/USA
Posts: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by V guy View Post
If you fired the gun with a barrel that simply unscrewed from the receiver, being only hand tight, that's a story in itself.

If the gun was assembled with a locking shoulder that was too big to headspace with that bbl, then unscrewing it until the go gage fit was probably what happened. Original builder probably simply used the LS that came with the kit.

The bbl would continue to try to unscrew when firing, held in place only by the gas tube and gas piston;

Get some advice on re-assembly and how to check the headspace.
Had a guy with a Winchester 88 come in last year, said it wouldn't fire. The barrel was sitting about .020" off of the receiver. Guy took it to some "smith" north of here and when the replacement barrel didn't time correctly, he just dunked the barrel shank in red Loc-Tite and set barrel to TDC. Safety and headspace be damned.
Parga is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 24, 2019, 13:20   #10
WS1850
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 83180
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Manchester NH
Posts: 7
So, I decided to send my barrel to ASR for threading and the bastards at USPS lost it. It never made it to Mark. Fortunately, I put $500 insurance on it.

What are peoples recommendations for a replacement barrel? I want a 21in threaded barrel with the bipod cuts. Are the DSA barrels any good or should I hold out for another STG barrel? There is/was a nice looking one on gunbroker, but it had the fake flashider welded on, how hard is that to undo? It seems like a lot of the vintage barrels out there are well used or screwed up from the AWB. Also, whats up with the soldered in short gas tube cylinder? Can that replace the long threaded in tube?

Last edited by WS1850; November 24, 2019 at 13:57.
WS1850 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24, 2019, 18:21   #11
RPBII
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 19720
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,642
Here you go.https://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=447247
RPBII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26, 2019, 15:29   #12
stimpsonjcat
I wasn't talking to you
Silver Contributor
 
stimpsonjcat's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 470
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dawsonville, GA
Posts: 7,096
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS1850 View Post
but my local gunsmiths are asking questions and/or telling me things that make me wary of having them do the job.

Thanks
LOL are they asking if you ever intend to put a can/suppressor on it?
__________________
"The game is worth the candle...always been."

"It’s hard to light a candle, easy to curse the dark instead."
stimpsonjcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26, 2019, 22:18   #13
brunop
Refresh Key Masher
Platinum Contributor
 
brunop's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 17136
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 13,878
__________________
"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
brunop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27, 2019, 16:48   #14
WS1850
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 83180
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Manchester NH
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat View Post
LOL are they asking if you ever intend to put a can/suppressor on it?
No, one guy wanted to put a 1/2-28 thread on it. The other guy instantly started bitching and doubled his price for left hand threads. Obviously I want to be able to put a can on it

Anyway, USPS lost it so I am on the search for a new one, with threads this time! Looks like I was too slow for the barrels RPBII linked, but I put a PM in.
WS1850 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30, 2019, 07:51   #15
raubvogel
Registered
Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 64403
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,895
If you are going to thread for a supressor, why not get one of the Apex Israeli barrels as they come unthreaded?
__________________
All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
raubvogel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30, 2019, 08:11   #16
meltblown
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 34604
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SA Tx
Posts: 16,219
Silencerco makes the ASR flash hider that fit fal threads.
__________________
If you're looking for someone loyal, get a dog. Otherwise you're not going to find it.

Expect the worst, and you'll never be disappointed.

Before trying to beat the odds, make sure you can survive the odds beating you.
meltblown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 30, 2019, 08:34   #17
lockjaw
Registered
Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 64904
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,679
.... local gunsmiths..... most wouldn’t have the experience to perform what you ask. Good for you for asking enough questions to recognize that they don’t know what they are doing. Don’t let them use your build as a test project. Any competent gunsmith that has experience threading barrels should accommodate your request with bitching or doubling the price.

It is a shame that your StG-58 barrel was lost.... is there chance that it will show back up?

A barrel that overtimes on a home build isn’t surprising. I have seen it on more and a handful of home builds. At least the original builder didn’t attempt to peen the heck out of the barrel shoulder and/or the receiver.

An overtimed barrel can be shimmer for proper timing. There are tons of threads on the subject if you want to address the issue yourself. I just received straight foward and constructive advice regarding an over timing issue in the gunsmithing section of this forum. Of course, if you starting with a different barrel, a shim may not be needed.

If you want to build the rifle at home, you could contact DSA and see if they’ll thread one of their barrels for your specific muzzle device.

You could also pick up a nice surplus barrel from marketplace here (there has been a number of excellent surplus barrels pop up lately). Then farm the barrel out to ADCO, who specializes in chopping and threading barrels for “tactical” rifles... cost is relatively inexpensive and the turn around is quick.

https://adcofirearms.com/products/gunsmithing/

Building your own FAL is enjoyable and rewarding. The process was very common among hobbyists a decade ago. You stated that your rifle came with tools... what did you get?
__________________
“Do right. Do your best. Treat others as you want to be treated.” ― Lou Holtz

Last edited by lockjaw; November 30, 2019 at 12:32.
lockjaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 05, 2019, 15:38   #18
stimpsonjcat
I wasn't talking to you
Silver Contributor
 
stimpsonjcat's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 470
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dawsonville, GA
Posts: 7,096
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS1850 View Post
No, one guy wanted to put a 1/2-28 thread on it. The other guy instantly started bitching and doubled his price for left hand threads. Obviously I want to be able to put a can on it

Anyway, USPS lost it so I am on the search for a new one, with threads this time! Looks like I was too slow for the barrels RPBII linked, but I put a PM in.
1/2x28 is fine on a FAL bbl.

I dunno why smiths complain about LH threads, the cut is out from the relief so they are actually less terrifying to me.
__________________
"The game is worth the candle...always been."

"It’s hard to light a candle, easy to curse the dark instead."
stimpsonjcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 05, 2019, 19:19   #19
idsubgun
"Comfortably Numb"
Bronze Contributor
 
idsubgun's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 3100
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: In the woods of Missouri
Posts: 10,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat View Post
I dunno why smiths complain about LH threads, the cut is out from the relief so they are actually less terrifying to me.
THIS ^^^^^^
idsubgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 05, 2019, 23:06   #20
kotengu
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 1594
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Baxter, TN, USA
Posts: 8,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat View Post
1/2x28 is fine on a FAL bbl.

I dunno why smiths complain about LH threads, the cut is out from the relief so they are actually less terrifying to me.
Yep. Way easier than RH threads. Maybe their lathe is left-handed?
__________________
"The way is in training." - Miyamoto Musashi
kotengu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 05, 2019, 23:34   #21
tdb59
Are We Awake ?
Bronze Contributor
 
tdb59's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 63177
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ironsman.com
Posts: 11,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat View Post

I dunno why smiths complain about LH threads, the cut is out from the relief so they are actually less terrifying to me.
They don't like standing on the other side of the lathe.





..............................
__________________
“The means of defense against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison
........
Drive a rifle, or ride in a railcar
tdb59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 06, 2019, 08:41   #22
gunplumber
Arrogant Bastard
Gold Contributor
 
gunplumber's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 96
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 26,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat View Post
1/2x28 is fine on a FAL bbl.

I dunno why smiths complain about LH threads, the cut is out from the relief so they are actually less terrifying to me.
Yeah, much easier - no crashing the shoulder.

OP - BTW, FALs suck suppressed, they aren't even hearing safe, and will beat themselves apart.

Unless you start screwing with custom gas plugs.

That's one of the reasons I bought a SCAR. Turn gas plug, run suppressed. Turn gasplug, run normal.

I understand not wanting to thread for can. Can't guarantee concentricity to a degree that would prevent baffle strike as the barrels themselves aren't always concentric to bore.

I don't like 1/2x28. Yeah, I know it's been done on the .308 galil and the Sudanese AR-10, but its different having a 2" flash hider and having a can mounted to such thin walls. The force that bumping that can would apply to that thin wall, is likely to damage it.
__________________
T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith
Arizona Response Systems, LLC
gunplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2019 The FAL Files