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Old November 21, 2019, 21:31   #1
ExCdnSoldierInTx
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Ruh Roh! Case Ruptured, blew up my rifle.

Aaa and this happened Earlier this evening when I decided to check the zero on my C1A1.

The rifle seems fine, but the mag is puffed up and is junk. It never blew the base plate off but it certainly fubaríd the whole mag.

Lake City surplus. About 5000 rounds give or take since built.



I got a face full of gas but as I wasnusing a rest, both hands were on the pistol grip so my off hand arm is fine with everything attached and nothing dangling.
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Old November 21, 2019, 21:34   #2
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Glad you are OK bro.

Do you have the stuff to check head space? If not I can bring it and do it for ya Saturday. LMK.
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Old November 21, 2019, 21:36   #3
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GM ?
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Old November 21, 2019, 21:46   #4
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GM ?
LOL!!!
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Old November 21, 2019, 21:50   #5
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I wanted to shoot this rifle this weekend dammit.

I donít have a Go/No Go gauge set so I think Iíll run to Ammo Depot tomorrow and see if they have one.

Iíll tear it down tonight and take a close look. Maybe snap some pics and show yíall.

Oh well. At least thereís nothing hanging off me left hand.
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Old November 21, 2019, 21:51   #6
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Glad you are OK bro.

Do you have the stuff to check head space? If not I can bring it and do it for ya Saturday. LMK.
Brother, thatíd be awesome if you could yes.
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Old November 21, 2019, 22:27   #7
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Glad you are OK bro.

Do you have the stuff to check head space? If not I can bring it and do it for ya Saturday. LMK.
Please do! I will bring the pin gaugesóthe only part I am not comfortable doing solo is headspacing.
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Old November 21, 2019, 22:30   #8
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Well yíall,

My rifle is junk. The DSA is hammered.

Pics coming
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Old November 21, 2019, 22:32   #9
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Old November 21, 2019, 22:33   #10
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I’d say I’m lucky to have all my fingers still attached to my hands. I’d put money on if this were an Entreprise or Coonan, it woulda nuked itself. The DSA stayed together.



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Old November 21, 2019, 22:37   #11
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I’m so incredibly pissed right now I could spit hot coals.

So I’m now on the market for an early Aussie pattern DSA upper and a bloody barrel.

I’m expecting 1K+++ plus machine work to Canadianize it, plus a barrel, gotta check, probably more.

But, if we’re gonna shoot ‘em, we’ll eventually have to fix ‘em.
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Old November 21, 2019, 22:41   #12
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Is the receiver on this one toast?
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Old November 21, 2019, 22:41   #13
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On my knees thanking the Lord for protecting me.
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Old November 21, 2019, 22:42   #14
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Is the receiver on this one toast?
Fubar
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Old November 21, 2019, 22:44   #15
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The whole corner of the seating surface is missing at 3:00.

The rifle is externally intact, so....

It’s gonna make a really awesome wall hanger.
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Old November 21, 2019, 22:54   #16
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Damn, Brother you are one lucky Filer in not suffering any physical damage. That was some major experimentation in what kind of pressure is generated by a 7.62 x 51 NATO round. A receiver can be replaced and the firearm rebuilt, loss of a limb or eye, not so much. Count your blessings and buy a lottery ticket or two as today was your lucky day.
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:00   #17
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Damn, Brother you are one lucky Filer in not suffering any physical damage. That was some major experimentation in what kind of pressure is generated by a 7.62 x 51 NATO round. A receiver can be replaced and the firearm rebuilt, loss of a limb or eye, not so much. Count your blessings and buy a lottery ticket or two as today was your lucky day.
Yep, no kidding. Headspace checked perfect a couple years back, and probably 1500 rounds through it since.
I was wearing eye protection because I was on a 25 yard indoor range zeroing it for this weekend’s shoot.
I was pretty cavalier with this rifle because it’s been old reliable for me over the years.

The rounds were bulk Lake City 147gr reloads from one of our well known bulk ammo suppliers. Standard NATO, no goofy stuff ever through this thing.
This rifle ran like a top and I’ve never once experienced even so much as a hiccup.

I don’t understand this one.
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:07   #18
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Maybe it was the reload, could the cartridge case have stretched from prior firing and made it past LC's QC. It then may have been too long to properly fit into the chamber head spaced for in-spec NATO rounds, resulting in an out of battery discharge.
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:08   #19
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Count yourself very lucky,,,buy a lotto ticket,,,say three "another bagel please",,,place two dollars into the Red Kettle,,,

I treated half a dozen rifle blow ups,,,all ugly,,,missing fingers,,blinded,,just brutal injuries.

Rifles can be replaced,,,you're not easy to repair.




Are you sure it was a case head separation that started things going bad,,,vs the receiver letting go,,,and that then cause the case to rupture being non supported?????

I just shoot them,,,not a builder.
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:13   #20
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If its RE-LOADS assembled by anyone other than the person who fired the case on its virgin-firing, its "standard" nothing.

There is no telling how many times previously that case was fired, or what pressures the case may have endured previously, or what temperatures it may have endured, or what chemicals it may have been exposed to.

Sorry your gun is blowed up.


Pic for attention.

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Old November 21, 2019, 23:15   #21
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Is it possible that the rifle fired just out of battery? Was there any barrel obstruction?
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:17   #22
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I’m not a builder either. I’m a shooter. But I check my stuff religiously and I never had an inkling of a problem.

I’m pretty sure it was ammo. It was the last round today.

I shot three strings of five each, at 25 yards to set my front sight post. It blew on the very last round of the final five. The follower was blown sideways in the mag. Adrenaline had me do an initial look and I totally missed the missing seat till I got home and put it under some light.

YH, this is an early DSA Aussie, what I take to be the best and strongest inch pattern receiver available.
I expect it would have turned out differently with a sandcast Coonan
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:20   #23
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If its RE-LOADS assembled by anyone other than the person who fired the case on its virgin-firing, its "standard" nothing.

There is no telling how many times previously that case was fired, or what pressures the case may have endured previously, or what temperatures it may have endured, or what chemicals it may have been exposed to.

Sorry your gun is blowed up.


Pic for attention.

Gary, I get it. I expect Iíll start using nothing but new Privi or Magtech, or roll my own. This is a 2K boom. Not happy at all, but if we use them, theyíll eventually give issues.

Iíll just suck it up and deal with it. Thatís all we can really do.
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:21   #24
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Is it possible that the rifle fired just out of battery? Was there any barrel obstruction?
No, I had four good rounds. With four confirmed hits. I checked the brass. All was normal. Dented necks as this rifles does, uhh, did. Nothing odd.

As soon as I find a new upper, I’ll get it back together as soon as either Randy or Mark can take it in.
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:31   #25
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I wonder how much reloaded "Lake City" has been originally fired through a machine gun with loose headspace?
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:35   #26
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I wonder how much reloaded "Lake City" has been originally fired through a machine gun with loose headspace?
My thinking now as well. Iíd say the majority of machine guns have questionable headspace measurements.
The more I dwell on this, the more pissed off I get. Iím currently picking bits of metal out of my left forearm.
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Old November 21, 2019, 23:43   #27
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My thinking now as well. Iíd say the majority of machine guns have questionable headspace measurements.
The more I dwell on this, the more pissed off I get. Iím currently picking bits of metal out of my left forearm.
I have bits of brass embedded in my face from a similar event.
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Old November 22, 2019, 00:01   #28
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I have bits of brass embedded in my face from a similar event.
Yep. Burst cases, grenade bursts, when you work with or play with this stuff, it happens. I have brass in my ugly mug as well. Pretty soon itíll be the most valuable part of me.
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Old November 22, 2019, 00:44   #29
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Iím not a builder either. Iím a shooter. But I check my stuff religiously and I never had an inkling of a problem.

Iím pretty sure it was ammo. It was the last round today.

I shot three strings of five each, at 25 yards to set my front sight post. It blew on the very last round of the final five. The follower was blown sideways in the mag. Adrenaline had me do an initial look and I totally missed the missing seat till I got home and put it under some light.

YH, this is an early DSA Aussie, what I take to be the best and strongest inch pattern receiver available.
I expect it would have turned out differently with a sandcast Coonan
I'm just happy your ok,,,even with being a transplanted Canadian,,,you're ok,,most days...

I don;t even know how they make Coonan's.
Mark built my 2 Stg's on Coonan's,,the rest on Imbel's,,all seem to work well.

The blowups I treated the victims on,,,were mostly with Colt A1's and a couple of M60's letting go when firing extended belts.

An old friend,,told me of an M79 bursting/blowing up,,but that shooter was not in any treatment mode afterwards.
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Old November 22, 2019, 01:15   #30
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That's not a case head separation. That round had too much powder in it.
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Old November 22, 2019, 06:23   #31
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So it got a double shot of love, and my rifleís trashed.
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Old November 22, 2019, 06:51   #32
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Bad brass,,,
had that same extractor groove crack a few times a hand full of years ago with some pull down LC brass,,,maybe 2013 dated iirc.
Had a thread in the ammo section with pics at the time.
Nothing was damaged in a pair of imbel on coonans,,,though the mags required some attention.
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Old November 22, 2019, 07:21   #33
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Bad brass,,,
had that same extractor groove crack a few times a hand full of years ago with some pull down LC brass,,,maybe 2013 dated iirc.
Had a thread in the ammo section with pics at the time.
Nothing was damaged in a pair of imbel on coonans,,,though the mags required some attention.
Lucky guy. Glad youíre ok as well. Last night I was thankful, now Iím both thankful and pissed off. LOL.

Externally, the DSA looks perfect. But the breech is fubar.

I wouldnít be half as upset if it was just a standard swap of an upper, but I need to do a pile of work on a new upper to give it the early Canadian look. Hopefully I can have it all fixed for spring.
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Old November 22, 2019, 07:37   #34
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What DSA receiver was this? What serial #? I don't recall seeing any DSA receivers fail.....this is #1. Cast?

Pics of the bolt?
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Old November 22, 2019, 08:29   #35
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I cant see what's wrong with the receiver, would like better pics or explanation. This has happened many times with steel case and the receiver has been fine and I just am not seeing what's supposed to be wrong with this one.
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Old November 22, 2019, 08:55   #36
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I cant see what's wrong with the receiver, would like better pics or explanation. This has happened many times with steel case and the receiver has been fine and I just am not seeing what's supposed to be wrong with this one.
Kidding, right?


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Old November 22, 2019, 09:06   #37
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If you want to run another one through that, you'll need a tripod and a very long shoelace on the trigger.
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Old November 22, 2019, 09:08   #38
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Quote:
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I wonder how much reloaded "Lake City" has been originally fired through a machine gun with loose headspace?
Iíve been setting up a Dillon 1050 to run 308......

The pile of brass is about half LC MG fired and half Sniper Fired M118LR....The MG brass is dirty and really goes to the bottom of the small base carbide die to get it to fit a case gauge. A single stage press is more effective.....you really have to watch the case gauge. Everything on the machine is new and grabbing so itís going to take a little doing to get it dialed in. I use my Winchester Model 70 to check the cases with a seated crimped bullet....if they tighten up its a problem......Depending on who built the rifle and set the headspace could determine whether a missized piece of brass with a pin hole or a crack makes it to the chamber to ruin your day. Springfield Armory was one of the first to realize the problem of trying to control the ammo issue and put the disclaimers for only new manufactured ammo.....DSA did the same. Theyíre in the same neck of the woods....
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Old November 22, 2019, 09:26   #39
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I’ve been setting up a Dillon 1050 to run 308......

The pile of brass is about half LC MG fired and half Sniper Fired M118LR....The MG brass is dirty and really goes to the bottom of the small base carbide die to get it to fit a case gauge. A single stage press is more effective.....you really have to watch the case gauge. Everything on the machine is new and grabbing so it’s going to take a little doing to get it dialed in. I use my Winchester Model 70 to check the cases with a seated crimped bullet....if they tighten up its a problem......Depending on who built the rifle and set the headspace could determine whether a missized piece of brass with a pin hole or a crack makes it to the chamber to ruin your day. Springfield Armory was one of the first to realize the problem of trying to control the ammo issue and put the disclaimers for only new manufactured ammo.....DSA did the same. They’re in the same neck of the woods....
The rifle was built by one of the very best in the biz. We all know him here. He's a long time member of the 'Files and an amazing guy.

I've been warned about LC MG reloads, and now I know. Machine Guns are hard on brass. that much I've known most of my life, but I guess I expected if they were properly prepped...
I've got a bunch of Privi new manufacture as well, and I probably should have used that.
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Old November 22, 2019, 09:37   #40
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Kidding, right?


NOW I see it.
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Old November 22, 2019, 10:03   #41
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Could be a wrong type of powder that got loaded into that round or powder that had degraded.

I did case prep on machine gun fired LC brass a few years ago. Will not be doing it again. Plenty failed the paperclip test after resizing and the brass was also way stretched out that I spent a miserable time trimming it.
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Old November 22, 2019, 12:52   #42
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in the pic it looks like someone chamfered the 2 o'clock position of the chamber, leaving the case head unsupported, but then, i'm the blind guy. has someone dremmeled on this gun to make it "feed better?, or is that gas cutting (from a single venting?)or impact damage from "gunsmithing". the barrel is 4140 or equivalent at a minimum, so shoud be 260-290 BHN and 180 KSI tensile. this is hard steel, fellas.

your gun is not toast. it just needs a replacement barrel. but then, i'm the blind guy.
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Old November 22, 2019, 16:28   #43
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Almost all of the LC MG brass failures I have had and seen were in the powder area above the web. This is where the case would stretch due to the MG head space and what you check with the paper clip. Too much powder was the cause of the failures seen in this case.
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Old November 22, 2019, 16:53   #44
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Almost all of the LC MG brass failures I have had and seen were in the powder area above the web. This is where the case would stretch due to the MG head space and what you check with the paper clip. Too much powder was the cause of the failures seen in this case.
Agreed. I've seen some Canadian GPMG converted 7.62 M1919s grenade over far less issues than this.

The good news here is that thanks to the good folks here, I've found a barrel and an early Aussie upper.

The even better news is that I'll be entertained picking shrapnel out of my hands, arms, and face for the next couple months. I can't see much of it, but once it infects, then it's easy to cut out.

I went over to Ammo Depot to Caddo Mills today to renew my range lease, and they said the same thing: a hot load.
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Old November 22, 2019, 16:59   #45
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in the pic it looks like someone chamfered the 2 o'clock position of the chamber, leaving the case head unsupported, but then, i'm the blind guy. has someone dremmeled on this gun to make it "feed better?, or is that gas cutting (from a single venting?)or impact damage from "gunsmithing". the barrel is 4140 or equivalent at a minimum, so shoud be 260-290 BHN and 180 KSI tensile. this is hard steel, fellas.

your gun is not toast. it just needs a replacement barrel. but then, i'm the blind guy.
Well, I wish that was the case, but the receiver is cracked at the slide rail on the starboard side.
It "might" work, but I'm not an experimenter. I value my 10 digits way, way too much for that kind of bubba stuff.

Tomorrow night I'm going to strip it down after James's shoot. and take a closer look at the breech block as well. I'm surprised it never expelled backwards through the pin area, actually.
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Old November 22, 2019, 17:37   #46
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2cents

exactly 2 cents worth but that jagged line in the circle looks to be the thread from the barrel exposed by the extractor relief. If she's cracked my condolences. I'll get a better look her tomorrow.
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Old November 22, 2019, 18:03   #47
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2 more cents

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Well, I wish that was the case, but the receiver is cracked at the slide rail on the starboard side.
It "might" work, but I'm not an experimenter. I value my 10 digits way, way too much for that kind of bubba stuff.

Tomorrow night I'm going to strip it down after James's shoot. and take a closer look at the breech block as well. I'm surprised it never expelled backwards through the pin area, actually.
two more cents---ExCon I'm glad you're all right and glad I didn't experience the adrenalin rush---could have killed an old guy like me. Get some other opinions on that receiver tomorrow, but I'm thinking your a lucky guy the receiver didn't completely let go and just cracked. It was obviously overpressured based on the trashed barrel. I personally wouldn't trust it with that kind of damage to the barrel---It's been pushed beyond yield strength--aka---fail. my 2 cents.

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Old November 22, 2019, 18:51   #48
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I was thinking about it today, and am I ever glad the Canadians have an open top if I had had an L1A1 style top on it, it might have peeled back into my ugly mug.
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Old November 22, 2019, 19:02   #49
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I was thinking about it today, and am I ever glad the Canadians have an open top if I had had an L1A1 style top on it, it might have peeled back into my ugly mug.
Yea,,,you for sure don;t want to look in a mirror or down at your hands and see how bad this could have been.
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Old November 22, 2019, 19:32   #50
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I had a wolf steel case blow the same last year, no more wolf. Rifle is ok, blew mag out, mag base popped off. Reassembled the mag & good to go.
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