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Old October 30, 2019, 05:42   #1
Bubacus
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The Democratic plan for a 42% national sales tax

Well Bernie and Lizzy have come up with the genius plan to tax people into oblivion to pay for everyone's health care. I can only imagine the waste, fraud, and abuse involved in this scam.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-d...202549219.html

The Democratic plan for a 42% national sales tax

If you’re a Democrat who supports “Medicare for All,” pick your poison. You can ruin your political career and immolate your party by imposing a ruinous new sales tax, a gargantuan income tax hike or a surtax on corporate income that would wreck thousands of businesses.

This is the cost of bold plans.

Supporters of Medicare for All, the huge, single-payer government health plan backed by Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and several other Democratic presidential candidates, say it’s time to think big and move to a health plan that covers everyone. Getting there is a bit tricky, however. A variety of analyses estimate that Medicare for All would require at least $3 trillion in new spending. That’s about as much tax revenue as the government brings in now. So if paid for through new taxes, federal taxation would have to roughly double.

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB) has done voters a favor by spelling out what kinds of new taxes it would take to come up with that much money. Warren justifies many of her programs by saying all it would take is “two cents” from the wealthy. That’s a reference to her 2% wealth tax on ultra-millionaires. But Medicare for All would be so expensive that if you taxed top earners at 100%—that’s right, if you took all the income of couples earning more than $408,000 per year—you’d still fall far short. And everybody getting taxed at 100% would obviously stop working.

Okay, that won’t do it. So what will? CRFB outlined a variety of options. A 42% national sales tax (known as a valued-added tax) would generate about $3 trillion in revenue. But it would destroy the consumer spending that’s the backbone of the U.S. economy. A tax of that magnitude would be like 42% inflation, wrecking consumer budgets and the many companies that depend on them, from Walmart and Amazon to your local car dealer.

Other options include a 32% payroll tax split between employers and workers or a 25% income surtax on everybody. Or, the government could cut 80% of spending on everything but health care, which would include highways, airports and the Pentagon. Or here’s a good one: Just borrow the money and quadruple Washington’s annual deficits.

The best idea might be charging every enrollee in the new program $7,500 per year, so they’d be paying directly for the coverage they’re getting. Some people pay more than that now for health care, by purchasing insurance outright or sacrificing pay raises in exchange for employer coverage. It would still be a nifty trick to propose that to voters.

The upside to these impossibly draconian scenarios is that nobody would pay anything for health care, except in the $7,500 example. And it’s possible that Medicare for All would cover health care for more people at a lower total cost than we spend now, meaning the average cost per person would go down. The problem is transitioning from what we have now to whatever Medicare for all would be. And it’s a giant problem, like crossing the Mississippi River without a bridge or a boat. The other side might look great but you’ll die before you get there.

Warren, Sanders and others tout the virtues of this magical health care program without explaining what it would cost. Sanders has at least suggested some possible ways to pay for it, including premiums paid by enrollees, a wealth tax on millionaires and income tax rates as high as 52%.
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Old October 30, 2019, 08:04   #2
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This would blow up the black market. It could be fun. Think about it. Black market furniture, black market toothpaste, black market guns...
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Old October 30, 2019, 08:17   #3
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I'm down with the 42% tax. If that's what it takes to plunge this MF into reset mode, let's do it, I ain't getting any younger!
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Old October 30, 2019, 08:22   #4
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I'm down with the 42% tax. If that's what it takes to plunge this MF into reset mode, let's do it, I ain't getting any younger!
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/ed/08/e...unny-funny.jpg
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Old October 30, 2019, 08:35   #5
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I'm down with the 42% tax. If that's what it takes to plunge this MF into reset mode, let's do it, I ain't getting any younger!

Yeah, lets get on with the real heavy lifting.




............juanni
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Old October 30, 2019, 09:12   #6
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Yeah, lets get on with the real heavy lifting.




............juanni
Yeah, like the kind you do WITHOUT air-conditioning, refrigeration, electricity, running water, gasoline, means of self-defense, modern medical facilities, motorized transportation - yall know, like in a Mad Max movie or The Road.

Fun. Loads of fun. I know yall can't wait.

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Old October 30, 2019, 09:43   #7
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Believe it or not, Medicare for All will be interpreted by most people as free healthcare.

When people see, or think they see, the word 'free', they're going to support it. There's only observation of this phenomenon and no real understanding it

Nothing unusual about Bernie the Socialist supporting it but it's strange Pocahontas would do this before the 2020 campaign season
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Old October 30, 2019, 09:58   #8
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Old October 30, 2019, 10:49   #9
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And "both" teams put it to us, yet most of America is mentally/emotionally tied to them, so they keep going back, like an abused wife.
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Old October 30, 2019, 10:54   #10
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And "both" teams put it to us, yet most of America is mentally/emotionally tied to them, so they keep going back, like an abused wife.
I won't argue with that logic, and like j likes to say, I will go vote for the same stuff over and over again. I just love getting fugged over by gooberment.
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Old October 30, 2019, 10:56   #11
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And "both" teams put it to us, yet most of America is mentally/emotionally tied to them, so they keep going back, like an abused wife.
I won't argue with that logic, and like j likes to say, I will go vote for the same stuff over and over again. I just love getting fugged over by gooberment.

But if he thinks a turd party is gonna change all this, he is full of shit. The borg assimilates everything that comes into that cesspool called DC.
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Old October 30, 2019, 11:31   #12
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This would blow up the black market. It could be fun. Think about it. Black market furniture, black market toothpaste, black market guns...
Yep!

All one needs to do is live in any country with a VAT tax in place.

In a store,,,item cost 100.00

Same item,,,cost 40.00 out of the back of a truck.

Mexico would love for the USA to go to a VAT of 40%

They would become rich.


I smoke.

Cost of a carton in the USA,,,75.00

Same exact carton in the short "walk into Mexico" store,,,,15.00/20.00 depending on sale day.

Already happening here on the border with medicines,,etc.,,,as well as smokes,,and how would they regulate the Indian reservations inside the US?????
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Old October 30, 2019, 14:25   #13
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But if he thinks a turd party is gonna change all this, he is full of shit. The borg assimilates everything that comes into that cesspool called DC.

Maybe, but we will never find out if we just voting for more of the same.


And really if you are just going to vote for more of the same, why even vote?
Does it really matter if a more of the same D throws a steaming turd on your plate or a more of the same R?




...........juanni
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Old October 31, 2019, 16:12   #14
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Maybe, but we will never find out if we just voting for more of the same.


And really if you are just going to vote for more of the same, why even vote?
Does it really matter if a more of the same D throws a steaming turd on your plate or a more of the same R?




...........juanni
The Tea party movement clearly illustrated the DC response to any outside threat to their theft, bribery and kickback racket....Republicans joined forces with their DNC comrades to use the government weaponized alphabet agencies to harass, persecute, infiltrate and destroy them.

And then republicans closed ranks with their DNC comrades to protect the criminal heads of these alphabet agencies for the crimes they committed ..Who were after all just following their orders in the first place...See Louis Lernor, Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch.

You cant vote your way out of this kind of corruption.
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Old October 31, 2019, 18:38   #15
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The Tea party movement clearly illustrated the DC response to any outside threat to their theft, bribery and kickback racket....Republicans joined forces with their DNC comrades to use the government weaponized alphabet agencies to harass, persecute, infiltrate and destroy them.

And then republicans closed ranks with their DNC comrades to protect the criminal heads of these alphabet agencies for the crimes they committed ..Who were after all just following their orders in the first place...See Louis Lernor, Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch.

You cant vote your way out of this kind of corruption.
Didnt the Koch bros fund the tea party?
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Old November 01, 2019, 08:54   #16
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Didnt the Koch bros fund the tea party?
Not directly.

"A Koch Industries company spokesperson issued a statement saying "No funding has been provided by Koch companies, the Koch foundation, or Charles Koch or David Koch specifically to support the tea parties".

According to wiki, if wiki is right. Through "Freedom Partners" foundation some money was used to support tea party elections. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politi..._Koch_brothers



They appear to tend to spend money on libertarian and conservative candidates and legislation. But, like Trump who donated to Democrats when it suited him, I strongly suspect the Kochs are just supporting whatever is best for their business ventures. They have supported Democrats in the past and it looks like they might again. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...chance-1356571
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Old November 01, 2019, 09:33   #17
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Originally Posted by Tip_drill View Post
The Tea party movement clearly illustrated the DC response to any outside threat to their theft, bribery and kickback racket....Republicans joined forces with their DNC comrades to use the government weaponized alphabet agencies to harass, persecute, infiltrate and destroy them.

And then republicans closed ranks with their DNC comrades to protect the criminal heads of these alphabet agencies for the crimes they committed ..Who were after all just following their orders in the first place...See Louis Lernor, Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch.

You cant vote your way out of this kind of corruption.
Well certainly not by voting within the 2 corrupt parties.
And you certainly are not going to end the corruption by voting for more of the same.

When TARP passed much of the public especially R voters were opposed, and what did those voters do?
Re elected those like McCain that voted in favor of TARP.

The pols know the voters are just too dammed dumb to throw them and their rotten parties out.
This has been proven over and over.

So you can't blame the pols for knowing the voters are stupid, gullible and easily duped.

Hell we got voters on here that brag about their constant support to the R party and how it makes them winners.




............juanni
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Old November 01, 2019, 12:06   #18
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Yep!

All one needs to do is live in any country with a VAT tax in place.

In a store,,,item cost 100.00

Same item,,,cost 40.00 out of the back of a truck.

Mexico would love for the USA to go to a VAT of 40%

They would become rich.


I smoke.

Cost of a carton in the USA,,,75.00

Same exact carton in the short "walk into Mexico" store,,,,15.00/20.00 depending on sale day.

Already happening here on the border with medicines,,etc.,,,as well as smokes,,and how would they regulate the Indian reservations inside the US?????
It's more insidious than even that

Canada runs a basic VAT combined with a GST
VATs are Value Added Taxes, GSTs are Goods & Services Taxes
much of the EU runs the same crap

What this means is every time a product is transferred with in the production to retail chain the tax is applied thus a 20% rate becomes a sixty to even 100% tax burden upon the retail consumer

Gets worse from there:

Major retailers like Walmart import directly for their chain of stores
Mop and pop family operations have to go from importer to at least one distributor before the item reaches their store
a minimum of three tax events before reaching the retail consumer, likely four.
Guess who gets the Tax advantage

On top of this remember these taxes ONLY fund Healthcare
there's also the Green New Deal to contend with, that means even more taxing of fuels, etc

Of course with this radically enhanced Federal tax base there is a further trickle down effect mostly ignored
Remember costs increase for everyone even local governments meaning rental costs skyrocket as will property taxes
landlords will simply be paying a great deal more to maintain properties, those cost get passed directly to renters of course

local governments will be paying much more for everything under the Sun as well

and we have not even got to the 15 buck an hour minimum wage and it's trickle down effects upon goods & services
We are talking twenty dollars for a Big Mac & fries

Now Progressives won't directly tax food at stores however just like everything else it too will get hammered hard
again property taxes on farmland, taxes on equipment, fertilizers, pesticides and of course labor from production to the store baggers/carryout boys
I figure at least a 40% bump at the till which further trickles down to EBT meaning spending millions more than the government currently does on food assistance
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Old November 01, 2019, 15:53   #19
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Well certainly not by voting within the 2 corrupt parties.
And you certainly are not going to end the corruption by voting for more of the same.

When TARP passed much of the public especially R voters were opposed, and what did those voters do?
Re elected those like McCain that voted in favor of TARP.

The pols know the voters are just too dammed dumb to throw them and their rotten parties out.
This has been proven over and over.

So you can't blame the pols for knowing the voters are stupid, gullible and easily duped.

Hell we got voters on here that brag about their constant support to the R party and how it makes them winners.




............juanni
I dont believe you understand the point to my post......The 2 corrupt parties will and have joined forces to eliminate any threat to their "authority" and governance..And by any means necessary...We see them doing this to Trump with this current coup attempt...Under these circumstances any third party candidate will be neutered, compromised and or eliminated by the cabal and their weaponized alphabet agencies....Mafia Don's don't give up their territory without bloodshed.
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Old November 01, 2019, 15:58   #20
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I dont believe you understand the point to my post......The 2 corrupt parties will and have joined forces to eliminate any threat to their "authority" and governance..And by any means necessary...We see them doing this to Trump with this current coup attempt...Under these circumstances any third party candidate will be neutered, compromised and or eliminated by the cabal and their weaponized alphabet agencies....Mafia Don's don't give up their territory without bloodshed.
Maybe they wouldn't give it up w/o bloodshed.

But that still goes back to why vote at all if you are going to vote for the mafia??




...........juanni
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Old November 01, 2019, 17:22   #21
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I dont believe you understand the point to my post......The 2 corrupt parties will and have joined forces to eliminate any threat to their "authority" and governance..And by any means necessary...We see them doing this to Trump with this current coup attempt...Under these circumstances any third party candidate will be neutered, compromised and or eliminated by the cabal and their weaponized alphabet agencies....Mafia Don's don't give up their territory without bloodshed.
Many folks don't totally get the bi partisan Trump hatred

Happened up here in the 80s when despite all punditry on the networks Ventura body slammed both the DNC and RNC shitbirds he was running against
While the Republican, Coleman was quite gracious the Democrat Attorney General Skippy Humphrey notoriously attacked Ventura voters as "stupid"

Anyways to punish Ventura both parties agreed to make certain about no part of his agenda would reach his pen in the Governor's Office in St' Paul and Jesse had some very popular positions:

Ventura was pushing Shall Issue CCW hardcore noting how even he as Governor needed permission from a Sheriff to Carry Concealed
He made those statements right in the State House

Ventura was as well pro decriminalization of Cannabis

heck he was dead against Blue Laws in general like prostitution

once he left office they did pass into law various objectives of his administration such as Shall Issue CCW. That was done like a couple years after the Ventura era

This is what Trump faces
while he ran under the Republican ticket he actually represents a Third Party block. As I have noted previously in other threads most Americans just want the damn' Government to leave them Alone
that's something mainstream canidates from either party simply refuse to do but something both Ventura and to a lesser extant Trump promised

problem is there can be no palpable degree of change on what comes out of Washington until we change who goes into that City to represent We the People.
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Old November 01, 2019, 18:45   #22
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I dont believe you understand the point to my post......The 2 corrupt parties will and have joined forces to eliminate any threat to their "authority" and governance..And by any means necessary...We see them doing this to Trump with this current coup attempt...Under these circumstances any third party candidate will be neutered, compromised and or eliminated by the cabal and their weaponized alphabet agencies....Mafia Don's don't give up their territory without bloodshed.
Don't burst J's little third party wet dreams with reality..
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Old November 01, 2019, 19:41   #23
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The jokes on them.

We probably are already paying 42% or damn close to it in taxes and other federal, local and state mandated BS already.
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Old November 01, 2019, 19:46   #24
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I'm down with the 42% tax. If that's what it takes to plunge this MF into reset mode, let's do it, I ain't getting any younger!
It will be like your favorite dystopian movie/nightmare all rolled up nice in a day to day experience, with lots of violence and chaos. Lots of real discomfort. Sounds terrific.
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Old November 01, 2019, 20:52   #25
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The jokes on them.

We probably are already paying 42% or damn close to it in taxes and other federal, local and state mandated BS already.
studied that some and pondered it

We have a base income tax
then again if you are a business owner you make a serious effort to pass that burden down the line as much as possible along with any other cost to maintain your own expected income level
No one will allow themselves to be taxed into Poverty, it all trickles down

The Progressive panacea is to increase wages
that has an overall negative effect as it again is passed to the consumer level
I do it
When shipping costs go up I don't eat that as a cost of consumerism, I raise my prices to compensate for that net loss.

Let's just take the cost of a frosty mug of Beer
there are still many places you can find dollar tap pours
think small town Midwest or South East
California or NYC ?
$5.00 at Happy Hour many places
Hell I at least knew of dive clubs that were still doing 50 cent pours a few years back during Happy Hour but I really don't bar hop at all anymore
talking rural town bars, maybe they are 75 cents today

I'm no Uber Wealthy Man like some here
I have decent savings plus I buy & sell
my actual current yearly income is poverty grade and I live quite well on all that. I keep considering a store front operation but honestly it's worse than having a new Puppy in your Home these days if you have employees
and it could become far worse
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Old November 01, 2019, 21:19   #26
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It will be like your favorite dystopian movie/nightmare all rolled up nice in a day to day experience, with lots of violence and chaos. Lots of real discomfort. Sounds terrific.
Yes and will be well deserved.




...............juanni
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Old November 04, 2019, 07:54   #27
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It will be like your favorite dystopian movie/nightmare all rolled up nice in a day to day experience, with lots of violence and chaos. Lots of real discomfort. Sounds terrific.
No one lives forever.
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Old November 04, 2019, 09:50   #28
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Yes and will be well deserved.




...............juanni
O-tay. If you say so.

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Old November 04, 2019, 09:50   #29
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No one lives forever.
So, how do you plan on passing?

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Old November 04, 2019, 10:13   #30
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So, how do you plan on passing?

Jarhead
No one can know the day or hour. One must be prepared to meet ones maker, at any time. Only someone committing suicide has any control over death, and even that gets thwarted often.

Why do you ask?
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