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Old May 14, 2020, 23:31   #1
Ghost
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Just bought a Beretta AR70/90 kit, NOW WHAT!

Got the email from APEX, they have Beretta AR70/90 parts kits. I mulled it over pretty good. Well for about a half hour. Being that its one of my bucket list guns, I had to buy it. Now I'm sitting here thinking WHAT HAVE I DONE. I think this will be beyond my skills, and at this time there are no receivers or barrels, also the front hinge in the trunnion has been defaced, courtesy of the ATF rules.
Seems like with the Cetme Ls an acceptable receiver never materialized except, for the one that Marcolmar uses in its own production. Makes me think I should have waited for some one to make these into rifles.
Impulse buy jitters......
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Old May 15, 2020, 06:50   #2
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You bought a kit for $400 that someone paid $1400 for on GB just last week. Now you sit on it till all the kits are sold, and wait one more year.

Always buy two. Go back and buy another. In two years send me $100 and a nice thank you note.
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Old May 15, 2020, 07:06   #3
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Really? I got offered those 815 AR 70/90 kits (probably because of the build tutorial on my website) but turned them down because there are no barrels or receivers - I referred Matt to Apex and a few others.
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Old May 15, 2020, 08:06   #4
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The mutilated trunnions did it for me,,,,I'll pass.
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Old May 15, 2020, 08:52   #5
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The mutilated trunnions did it for me,,,,I'll pass.
trunion was prolly 280 BHN chrome moly, if so is not repairable by welding for the average weldor.
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Old May 15, 2020, 09:18   #6
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I was thinking about getting one but I know so very little about the AR70 and the barrel has be baffled. Is it a two piece barrel or what? Is building one of these going to be a major ass pain?
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Old May 15, 2020, 09:56   #7
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The AR70/90 is not the AR70 of earlier vintage.
It looks to use a barrel nut to retain barrel to trunnion, ala M16. AR70 barrels on the other hand were threaded and screwed into their trunnion. So male vs female threading on trunnion and likely male vs no threading on barrel.
From the pics and limited feedback, it dosent seem any of these later 70/90 parts will interchange with the earlier AR70....Except maybe handguards can be modified to fit.

Edit; there was an earlier post here where a new member bought a 70/90 kit and found the lower was both wider and longer then the lower on his AR70. The rear retaining clip on the handguard was also too wide to fit the AR70 attaching pivot pin.

Last edited by yovinny; May 15, 2020 at 10:14.
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Old May 15, 2020, 13:25   #8
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This wouldn't be a problem if we didn't have GCA '68, 922R, the Bush ban and the NFA as a whole.
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Old May 15, 2020, 16:14   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abominog View Post
You bought a kit for $400 that someone paid $1400 for on GB just last week. Now you sit on it till all the kits are sold, and wait one more year.

Always buy two. Go back and buy another. In two years send me $100 and a nice thank you note.
APEX Gun Parts has 35 of the Beretta AR-70/90 kits remaining in stock.
We bought 100 direct from the importer, and now our supplier is sold out.
So, I am not expecting to restock these.

https://www.apexgunparts.com/beretta...ts-set-gd.html

I know of 2 other on-line sellers that have these kits, I think they purchased fewer than we did.
So, on to the next thing!
We have a line on some rifle kits I have not had in stock for a long time.

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Old May 16, 2020, 01:57   #10
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I did note the differing build technique between the 70/90 and earlier 70. I'm also pretty sure the place where the trunnion is cut isnt strength critical and in pressure bearing, just a locating and retention feature holding the upper to the lower.
just over 100 kits really isnt very many though, hopes of a receiver materializing kinda diminished.
I'm sure I wont lose money on the kit, but I was/am hoping to have a nice Beretta clone out of it.

APEX, did you happen to score any receiver sections or accessories?
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Old May 16, 2020, 08:12   #11
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ASSuming the other two vendors bought 100 each, I wonder what happened to the remaining 515 off the 815 Mat mentioned. Probably the vendors are testing the waters; that s a lot of money to put down on an parts kit nobody have heard of and let it sit for possibly years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Seems like with the Cetme Ls an acceptable receiver never materialized except, for the one that Marcolmar uses in its own production. Makes me think I should have waited for some one to make these into rifles.
Impulse buy jitters......
Can you elaborate on what was unacceptable in the H&M receivers?
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Old May 16, 2020, 10:20   #12
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Maybe Marcolmar will make some of these into rifles. Mr. Bane does fantastic work.
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Old May 16, 2020, 14:52   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
I did note the differing build technique between the 70/90 and earlier 70. I'm also pretty sure the place where the trunnion is cut isnt strength critical and in pressure bearing, just a locating and retention feature holding the upper to the lower.
just over 100 kits really isnt very many though, hopes of a receiver materializing kinda diminished.
I'm sure I wont lose money on the kit, but I was/am hoping to have a nice Beretta clone out of it.

APEX, did you happen to score any receiver sections or accessories?
No, just kits and the magazines.

I too hope that someone seizes the opportunity to make barrels and receivers for these kits.
They are an interesting gun.

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Old May 18, 2020, 08:48   #14
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Was looking around at what has been done for AR70 kits in the past. This gent is selling his with a reciever made by Black Hat Arms. I can't find any info on the company. He was selling it as an incomplete build.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/90723896...-parts-kit.htm

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Old May 19, 2020, 11:28   #15
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Arrow

Interesting way to sell that.
I assume because it has no USA parts besides the receiver and dosent pass 922 muster.
Though Ive seen another fully completed likewise and sold openly in the MP here,,, without a thought or mention of 922 compliance,,,,
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Old May 20, 2020, 21:58   #16
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Well here it is. It's a very interesting rifle. Has a Barrel nut like an AR15-M16, has an adjustable gas system, Adverse, normal, and a separate grenade mode. interesting sliding bar dust cover, pistol style sights on the detachable carry handle. Ambidextrous controls, weird selector safe, semi, three round, and full auto. The bipod is a clip on like an old M16 bipod. It feels like it was quality. the barrel seems to have been a very light profile.
this thing deserves to be built it is very neat, and much better looking in person than photos.
To build it would need receiver with rails, repair the hinge on the trunion, barrel, 922r parts. seems mostly welded together. Also I think there needs to be a rear trunion

EDIT: I was wrong about the Bipod, it does fold and can stay on the rifle, it is a quick detatch.

Last edited by Ghost; May 21, 2020 at 00:24.
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Old May 21, 2020, 06:13   #17
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AR 70/90 kit

I deliberated too long and Apex sold out of kits. Centerfire Systems showed to have them in stock at the same price. I got my order in. I don't know if they have real time inventory. Waiting for shipment confirmation now.
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Old May 22, 2020, 16:50   #18
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Originally Posted by raubvogel View Post
ASSuming the other two vendors bought 100 each, I wonder what happened to the remaining 515 off the 815 Mat mentioned.
If you do a search for AR70/90 on Gunbroker, you will see two sellers indicating that they have 813 (as of today) available. Looks like they may be getting them from the same supplier. So if APEX had 100 and Centerfire slightly less, it would mean there are about 1,000 kits out there.
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Old May 23, 2020, 02:45   #19
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Good to hear there may be more kits out there. this thing is awesome.. And I'd like to see receivers and barrels. The more I look at it the simpler the receiver design seems, there are just some dimensional mysterys. and it appears there was no trunion wish the came with more receiver chunks for forensic reconstruction.
I'm also hoping that if any one makes a receiver is looks authentic, and they mark them discreetly so we can have reproduction Beretta markings engraved.
after studeying a lot of photos and videos there apear to have ben a couple variations of the dust cover, and no dust cover on some. Mine is smooth while most photos show a waffle pattern
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Old May 23, 2020, 21:22   #20
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Actually, since I do find Beretta rifles interesting (like the AR70/90, of which there's few that ever came into this country), I'd like to see some details of the bolt system and such.

It reminds me of a mix of an AR-18 and an AK-47 or even a M1 Garand (not surprising, given that Beretta made M1s and the BM59 was based on a NATO spec M1 rebarreled for .308 Win vs .30-06 and given a detachable mag, as well as being adapted to NATO standards). Carrier is blocky like a AR-18 carrier, and uses a similar pin system (possibly captive based on the Forgotten Weapons video of the old AR70), and the bolt is fairly chunky and follows AK principals (two lug bolt, fixed ejector, uses a M1 type claw ejector, though).

I wouldn't mind seeing photos of the bolt. Also, from what you can tell, does the bolt lock into the trunnion or the actual barrel extension? On the 70 I heard it locked into the trunnion, while the 70/90 had the barrel nut to help with barrel changes without headspacing headaches, which seems to imply that the bolt locked into the barrel extension like most rifles do today.

Too bad that the ATF insisted that the upper had to be destroyed unless it was a Class III import. I'd like to have seen how the dust cover over the charging handle slot worked.
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Old May 24, 2020, 00:53   #21
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I'll have to get pictures later.the bolt carrier isn't as blocky as it appears, the side facing the ejection port has a large flat "wall" to seal it of, the other side is milled away. the bolt locks into the receiver trunion like an AK, however the barrel is installed with a barrel nut like an AR. The extractor looks a LOT like an M1. The actual receiver is VERY simple and I think would be easy to replicate as far as stampings are concerned.
The gas piston is fluted interestingly. The selector is just out of reach of the thumb and has a lot of rotation.
dry firing the lower the trigger is surprisingly good for a European assault rifle. The barrel profile was light.

EDIT, pix added:











Last edited by Ghost; May 24, 2020 at 02:03.
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Old May 24, 2020, 11:10   #22
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I wonder what the front of the bolt head looks like and how it compares to the AR70. Also, I wonder why the AR70 and 70/90 bolt has a thicker stem behind the head than say an AK or a FNC?
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Old May 24, 2020, 12:11   #23
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I wonder what the front of the bolt head looks like and how it compares to the AR70. Also, I wonder why the AR70 and 70/90 bolt has a thicker stem behind the head than say an AK or a FNC?
The bolt lugs are very M1 Garandish.
Myself, I wonder why they even bothered with the carry handle. I could see it being some what "useful" if the pistol sights in it were night sights, but they arent, they look like Beretta 92 sights kinda.
Front of the lower also looks like it was intended to be hooked onto something. The squared off contour at the back is curious, I had thought it was because the folding stock might take up that space, but it doesn't appear that way in the photos I've found.

Last edited by Ghost; May 24, 2020 at 12:17.
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Old May 24, 2020, 13:33   #24
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I was actually talking about the bolt stem, how behind it the bolt it stays thick then tapers down, while on like an AK or FNC bolt it abruptly drops down behind the head. I wonder if that was a manufacturing consideration or something else.
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Old May 24, 2020, 15:08   #25
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AR 70/90 kit

Ghost, I believe I have your kits rackmate. My kit from Centerfire came in yesterday. It has " 25 "' taped on the right side of the stock. The bolt carrier assembly is much like yours. Slight use on it, nothing major.
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Old May 24, 2020, 16:29   #26
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Ghost, I believe I have your kits rackmate. My kit from Centerfire came in yesterday. It has " 25 "' taped on the right side of the stock. The bolt carrier assembly is much like yours. Slight use on it, nothing major.
Thats really cool. I hope we can get these up and running. I'll bet they are smooth shooters, if any thing like the SIGs, or Robinson M96. and I believe they have a longer receiver than the 55X series sigs so if anything that will help.
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Old May 24, 2020, 16:49   #27
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Hopefully some day, someone will come out with a high quality barrel for these kits.
The total lack of a barrel and other necessary parts kept me from getting one... As well as having like 4 other kits I need built first.
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Old May 24, 2020, 18:08   #28
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Hopefully some day, someone will come out with a high quality barrel for these kits.
The total lack of a barrel and other necessary parts kept me from getting one... As well as having like 4 other kits I need built first.
I think the barrel on these will be easy. and there are actually few features on the receiver that need pressed in. the big deal will be the receiver rails I think
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Old May 24, 2020, 18:20   #29
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I think the barrel on these will be easy. and there are actually few features on the receiver that need pressed in. the big deal will be the receiver rails I think
I think your mostly right, but rails are easy.
I want to know, what your going to do about the mutilated trunnion ?
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Old May 24, 2020, 18:44   #30
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AR 70/90 kit

The trunion isn't that bad. There is some slag on the right side rail but should easily clean up. The bottom mounting tabs should be an easy repair. It structural to the trunion ,but not a critical load bearing area.
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Old May 24, 2020, 18:46   #31
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[QUOTE=84SS;4887952]The trunion isn't that bad. There is some slag on the right side rail but should easily clean up. The bottom mounting tabs should be an easy repair. It structural to the trunion ,but not a critical load bearing area. The receiver is shaped somewhat like an FNC receiver.
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Old May 24, 2020, 19:06   #32
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The trunion isn't that bad. There is some slag on the right side rail but should easily clean up. The bottom mounting tabs should be an easy repair. It structural to the trunion ,but not a critical load bearing area.
Great !!! Fantastic to hear !!!
Please educate me how you go about this easy repair....
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Old May 24, 2020, 20:41   #33
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Great !!! Fantastic to hear !!!
Please educate me how you go about this easy repair....
Mine has no slag on the actual Trunion. And hes right the tabs that are cut are only the pivot point that hold the upper and lower, non load bearing. I believe a slight oversized pair of ears could be machined, then welded on the trunion. After welding, they could be machined down to proper dimension.
That is my thought any way.
The receiver shape is simple enough that it could be folded, and not stamped, you would however not have the slight step down that is pressed into the bottom of the ejection port or the raised oval stamped over the right side pivot tab on the raised feature on the sheet metal covering the right pivot tab, those 3 small features are the only embossed features on a whole intact receiver. Internal rail features would have to be reverse engineered, as I do not know the originals dimensions.
I am confident that I could make it run, however I could not make it LOOK 100% original. I really want a receiver that looks correct and has discrete manufacturers marks, so that clone markings could be applied.

Last edited by Ghost; May 24, 2020 at 20:51.
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Old May 24, 2020, 21:00   #34
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Interesting,,,I might have to buy one then....
From the pic, it looks way too close to the locking lugs to be doing much in the way of any welding, brazing or much of anything.
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Old June 17, 2020, 13:07   #35
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We have a line on some rifle kits I have not had in stock for a long time.

Richard
When will you be able to give us details?
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Old June 18, 2020, 11:50   #36
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Mark Serbu is in the process of making barrels. I think he mentioned that WeaponsGuild price would be $225 and $250 elsewhere.
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Old June 19, 2020, 04:15   #37
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When will you be able to give us details?
I am hoping to get the 30 "have not seen these in a long time" kits listed on Friday.
They have all been handled over at WH5 (our receiving warehouse) and I have the samples for photographs in my car to be delivered over at the APEX main facility on Stone Ave.
I now have added another person to photograph and list product!
We are also building a photo studio for video production.

Beretta AR 70/90 kits.
Mark Serbu is doing a great job getting barrels and prints made.
He is also designing the receiver and semi-auto mods for this gun.
So, I have more kits on the way from a different supplier.
Unfortunately my cost for the kits went up quite a bit and I had to pass some of that increase along so the retail price is a bit higher than before.
These will receive the same handling as the last Beretta Ar 70/90 kits.
So, will not be available for purchase til the WH5 crew can check them and repackage the complete kits.

MORE GALIL SAR barrels are also on their way too!

Richard
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Old June 19, 2020, 09:46   #38
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I am hoping to get the 30 "have not seen these in a long time" kits listed on Friday.
They have all been handled over at WH5 (our receiving warehouse) and I have the samples for photographs in my car to be delivered over at the APEX main facility on Stone Ave.
I now have added another person to photograph and list product!
We are also building a photo studio for video production.

Beretta AR 70/90 kits.
Mark Serbu is doing a great job getting barrels and prints made.
He is also designing the receiver and semi-auto mods for this gun.
So, I have more kits on the way from a different supplier.
Unfortunately my cost for the kits went up quite a bit and I had to pass some of that increase along so the retail price is a bit higher than before.
These will receive the same handling as the last Beretta Ar 70/90 kits.
So, will not be available for purchase til the WH5 crew can check them and repackage the complete kits.

MORE GALIL SAR barrels are also on their way too!

Richard
When you say you hope to have them listed on Friday, do you mean today or next friday?

I got one of your Galil kits and one of your CETME kits earlier this year. I am contemplating a Beretta but there are others that I am hoping for. Keep up the good work! You guys are very much appreciated.
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Old June 19, 2020, 15:59   #39
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When you say you hope to have them listed on Friday, do you mean today or next friday?

I got one of your Galil kits and one of your CETME kits earlier this year. I am contemplating a Beretta but there are others that I am hoping for. Keep up the good work! You guys are very much appreciated.
As I write this post, my people are editing the kit pictures.
The rest of the kits were brought over from WH5 along with GALIL SAR barrels.
So, I just need to get to work, and get the listings done!

Richard
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Old June 19, 2020, 18:24   #40
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i see this kit as the CETME L when Apex first introduced them (http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum...EX-Gun-Parts): people were looking down on it because there were not receivers and barrels available. Until they were. And then H&M (hmgunworks.com) took it seriously and started making receivers and even completed rifles. And then Malcomar (marcolmarfirearms.com) went the next level and made even more parts like furniture and a better barrel and also completed rifles.

The carry handle is a detachable piece. It can be replaced with a rail and probably other things.

Mark Serbu will be making a small run of barrels AFAIK. Don't know how small it will be.

I am just waiting how long until someone starts making adapters so you can use AR buttstock, AR handguards, AR grips, and AR barrels in it. BEcause tactical.
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Old June 20, 2020, 06:38   #41
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This is all good news, now I need to figure out how to get on a list to get one of those barrels!
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Old June 20, 2020, 11:09   #42
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This is all good news, now I need to figure out how to get on a list to get one of those barrels!
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/in...?topic=79942.0
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Old June 20, 2020, 13:49   #43
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Originally Posted by raubvogel View Post

You need to be a member of the WG to read the info.

Its free and I do recommend that forum if you like building guns.
The moderators do a wonderful job of keeping the posts about guns.
APEX has an area there where I post updates and try and share what little I know.

Richard
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Last edited by APEXgunparts; June 21, 2020 at 16:25.
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Old June 20, 2020, 21:02   #44
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I need to be a member of the WG to read the info.
Its free and I do recommend that forum if you like building guns.
The moderators do a wonderful job of keeping the posts about guns.
APEX has an area there where I post updates and try and share what little I know.

Richard
Thank you,
Hopefully I can stay on top of it. There are just to many forums to keep tabs on.
Thanks again.
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Old June 21, 2020, 13:10   #45
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The posts on weapons guild are inspiring. Mark Serbu said he'd put the barrels up for sale on his web site. For some reason however I can not get his web page to come up. Maybe I'm just being Google impaired. Does any one happen to have a link?
I'm getting giddy thinking about having a nice AR70/90. Like I said it is one of my wish list guns, and I really don't want to miss out.
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Old June 21, 2020, 14:54   #46
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The barrels aren't there yet, but they'll probably show up here when available.

https://serbu.com/parts-accessories/...eatured&page=1

He's also talking about taking in stripped trunnions and welding new tabs on them,
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Old June 21, 2020, 14:59   #47
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The barrels aren't there yet, but they'll probably show up here when available.

https://serbu.com/parts-accessories/...eatured&page=1

He's also talking about taking in stripped trunnions and welding new tabs on them,
Thanks Kev. for some reason the link to his page wasn't working for me earlier.
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