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Old December 31, 2019, 00:13   #1
Randall
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Considering A New 5.56 Upper

I've built a few AR's, but not really interested in building another. Been thinking lately about buying a "hot swappable" M4 style upper. That is, I'd just like to have a 2nd full upper to swap out on occasion.

Here's my short list:
-Chrome lined 16" medium contoured free floated 1:7 barrel, w/standard fs
-Flat top upper (picatinny rail)
-12" mlock fore-end with full picatinny top
-Black nitrite BCG
-Standard M4 charging handle
I'll worry about BUIS, Foregrip and any other accessories later.

Just curious what you guys suggest. Not looking to break the bank, just wondering who builds a good solid upper, and how much they cost? What do you guys suggest?
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Old December 31, 2019, 00:18   #2
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BCM, DD, Larue, LWRC, Odinworks are my go favorites.
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Old December 31, 2019, 00:23   #3
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"Spare" uppers morph into complete rifles. Just saying.
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Old December 31, 2019, 01:17   #4
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"Spare" uppers morph into complete rifles. Just saying.
They sure do around my house
I think the Palmetto State Armory Premium upper with FN barrels are a good value. I have never had issue with them.
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Old December 31, 2019, 05:21   #5
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https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ed-welded.html

Also a fan of PSA with premium CHF FN-made barrels.
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Old December 31, 2019, 09:24   #6
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Would suggest mid-gas, and consider nitride & pencil instead of chrome & medium contour.
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Old December 31, 2019, 10:26   #7
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Originally Posted by backbencher View Post
Would suggest mid-gas, and consider nitride & pencil instead of chrome & medium contour.
Can you tell me why?
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Old December 31, 2019, 13:10   #8
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I agree on melonite/nitride barrel because they can cut rifling to exact dimension rather than oversize then hope chome goes on consistent thickness and correct thickness. Melonite is harder and seen barrels survive 20,000 rounds in testing. Agree with the mid length on 16" barrel as will slow gas impulse a tad and allow bolt to stay locked up a tad longer. I would consider a mid length pig tail so effectively had rifle length gas but proper dwell time for projectile past port so get longest bolt lock up but no issues with pressure dropping due to projectile exiting muzzle causing pressure to drop before bolt was in full rearward motion. I dislike pencil barrels as if overheat will want to warp and less steel means less ability to act as a heat sink.

16" mid weigjt intermediate gas 1:8 or 1:7 melonite barrel based on bullet weight shoot well most of time. If never shoot 77 grain or heavier go with 1:8 as 1:7 can spin up 55 grain bullets more than necessary. 1:8 is perfect for 69 grain projectiles and lighter. Some of my best shooting rigs are 18" 1:8 using 69 grain SMKs. If never shoot heavier than 62 grain with 55s being majority of used weight a 1:9 will serve you well. I have a lot of 20" to 26" 1:12 barrels for using 50 to 55 grain varmint bullets. A 24" 1:12 can be like magic with a 52 grain SMK so predominantly used ammo determines twist on my rifles. Lighter bullets slower twist, hever bullets faster twist with 1:8/1:9 in sweek spot for 55 and 62 grain pills. Melonite for durability and cryogenic treated stainless for match grade/varmint shooting. Chrome is only for vintage Colts that shipped as such in the day.
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Old December 31, 2019, 15:15   #9
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Can you tell me why?
Mid-gas - maintains the bayonet-hilt length dwell-time of the 20" & 14.5" military guns, resulting in a slightly longer unlocking time over carbine gas and maintains use of the bayonet w/o adapters.

Nitride - saves money, may be more accurate, and long-lasting. You've already chosen a nitrided bolt, why not a bbl?

Pencil - The AR-15 was intended to be a lightweight, handy-carrying rifle. Unless you're building this for mag dumps from your binary trigger, you might really enjoy a lightweight bbl. I built a 27" pencil rifle for my oldest girl and it handles like a wand.

If you do end up doing mag dumps, bbls are easily replaceable.
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Old December 31, 2019, 15:18   #10
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If you have deep pockets go for what the big boys use....M4A1 Block II.

I have been acquiring the necessary components to assemble a poor mans version of this.
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Old December 31, 2019, 17:10   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall View Post
I've built a few AR's, but not really interested in building another. Been thinking lately about buying a "hot swappable" M4 style upper. That is, I'd just like to have a 2nd full upper to swap out on occasion.

Here's my short list:
-Chrome lined 16" medium contoured free floated 1:7 barrel, w/standard fs
-Flat top upper (picatinny rail)
-12" mlock fore-end with full picatinny top
-Black nitrite BCG
-Standard M4 charging handle
I'll worry about BUIS, Foregrip and any other accessories later.

Just curious what you guys suggest. Not looking to break the bank, just wondering who builds a good solid upper, and how much they cost? What do you guys suggest?
There’s a lot of options that are out there that would fit the criteria you have listed. The big question is how much do you want to spend. PSA or Davidson Defense options can be had for under $300 or you can go with a Daniel Defense or Knights Armament for double or more than that ($600+).
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Old December 31, 2019, 17:21   #12
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If you want a 16" barrel with the standard front sight and a 12" rail a dissipator might be an option for you.

Here's a link to the arfcom dissipator thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Di...ad/118-509821/
PSA sells one but you would have to take care of the rail yourself. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ng-handle.html
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Old December 31, 2019, 18:15   #13
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Mid-gas on a 16" barrel is a much less violent cycling impulse.

I recently switched from carbine to mid on a 16" gun. I am very pleased with the results.

The carbine gas was flinging brass as though something were broken, or about to break.

Why not build it?

If you have the tools and a vise, it takes maybe 30 minutes to assemble.

That way, you buy the parts you want, and end up with the upper you want. Trying to find exactly what you want in already-built configuration is a recipe for a headache and/or disappointment unless you want something very ordinary.

A good bullet out of a good barrel always gives good results.

Cheap out on either of those, and YMMV.
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Old December 31, 2019, 18:52   #14
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Above pictured Dissipator looks nice except for cheese grater free float forearm. I would have to wear a glove on left hand if ran more than a half hour of drills with something like that. Have my fair share of similar forearms purchased cheap but not on hard working rifles. Have them on rifles that ride in locks under or behind seats or next to bed in case need a rifle with a few rounds to few mags in a stressful situation. My range rifles and working rifles have medium/fat smooth handguards.

The PSA upper in low $200 range have seen and heard of many issues with the cheap house brand Palmetto stainless barrels. Also needs torn apart and barrel floated which is as much work as a complete build or more as have to rip it apart before put it back together. Of course the traditional plastic hangars with delta ring and end cap is the true dissipator configuration.

Carbine gas with 1:9 barrel but very true to format Dissipator upper cosmetically. Have no idea as to its quality.
https://www.tntesales.com/16-dissipa...-chrome-lined/

Exact specs OP asked for near as I can tell.
https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/product/ur16da4b/

Have seen a lot of companies where buyer can change specs around to suit with A2 or A3 upper, stainless or Chrome lined barrel, etc that spec out in the $350 to $600 price. If I were going to buy one would call Jan at White Oak Armament, tell her what want, she will get with John and my guess is about $600 to build a Dissipator if not looking for a true competative Service Rifle spec build but just a real nice A2 properly buit lifetime of fun upper.
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Old January 01, 2020, 03:34   #15
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I have had wonderful success with Daniel Defense Pencil-Profile ("LW") 16" CHF + chrome-lined barrels. Mid-length gas.

They ain't cheap, but they're accurate and light. And Cold Hammer Forged. And chrome-lined. And they shoot 75 gr. Hornady Match pills into 1MOA.

Most parts in ARs aren't that different one from another: that being said, I'm a big believer in barrels and bolts, and spend extra money on these items.


https://danieldefense.com/16-5-56mm-...w-profile.html
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Old January 01, 2020, 12:05   #16
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Quote:
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Most parts in ARs aren't that different one from another: that being said, I'm a big believer in barrels and bolts, and spend extra money on these items.
I consider a $200 barrel and $59 bolt being a bargain build base and a $400 barrel with a $100 bolt being a nice build then can spend more but get deminishing returns past $400 unless shooting crows, prarie dogs and other smal, vermin at long distances. I will spend stupid money on a good varmint barrel or for a custom turn bolt. I just can't look at a $215 complete upper and figure how it was built using quality parts, skilled labor and have any profit margin left.

If not for finding LMT and other premium bolts on sale and buying by the dozen then searching for sales on barrels and buying at least two or three when find a real deal could not build decent rifles. I have some good pencil barrels but look at them for carry more than shoot rifles. If know may have to take a few dozen shots in rapid time frame at an active group of prarie dogs or large group of crow like a heavy barrel with less tendency to shift point of impact as heats up. It's all personal preference and the more you build the more your personal experience affects choices. I still have five of a dozen 18" 1:8 CHF stainless 5R barrels that had never seen for under $289 drop to $89 for about a total of an during After Christmas Sale four years ago. If see a decent barrel have used before drop enough will buy them by the pile.
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Old January 01, 2020, 12:22   #17
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Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
I consider a $200 barrel and $59 bolt being a bargain build base and a $400 barrel with a $100 bolt being a nice build then can spend more but get deminishing returns past $400 unless shooting crows, prarie dogs and other smal, vermin at long distances. I will spend stupid money on a good varmint barrel or for a custom turn bolt. I just can't look at a $215 complete upper and figure how it was built using quality parts, skilled labor and have any profit margin left.

If not for finding LMT and other premium bolts on sale and buying by the dozen then searching for sales on barrels and buying at least two or three when find a real deal could not build decent rifles. I have some good pencil barrels but look at them for carry more than shoot rifles. If know may have to take a few dozen shots in rapid time frame at an active group of prarie dogs or large group of crow like a heavy barrel with less tendency to shift point of impact as heats up. It's all personal preference and the more you build the more your personal experience affects choices. I still have five of a dozen 18" 1:8 CHF stainless 5R barrels that had never seen for under $289 drop to $89 for about a total of an during After Christmas Sale four years ago. If see a decent barrel have used before drop enough will buy them by the pile.
That could probably be tested...



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Old January 01, 2020, 13:05   #18
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Okay, okay!! I'm going to the range today with the Raiders Rifle. I'm not reporting here, but rather over in the thread where it belongs.
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Old January 01, 2020, 13:14   #19
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Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
............

A good bullet out of a good barrel always gives good results.

Cheap out on either of those, and YMMV.

Crap !

Now everyone will know the secret !





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Old January 01, 2020, 14:05   #20
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Thanks for the help guys.
So far, I think I've been talked out of chrome lined barrels...Talked into mid length gas system....and, may have been talked into 1:8 instead of 1:7 twist as I have a surplus of 55 and 62gr., and it would be nice not to feel like I "should" switch uppers just to shoot 55gr. I doubt I'll shoot very much above 69gr. anyway. Any opinions on SS vs 4150?

Not a big fan of a hot barrel walking. I already own a mini-14, and while I've corrected that issue for the most part...I'll just deal with a little extra weight out front. So, the pencil thin barrel is off the table unless I can be convinced otherwise.

All this being said, I'm guessing I'll be building another upper instead of purchasing something off the shelf.

Any thoughts on Green Mountain Barrels?
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Old January 01, 2020, 15:23   #21
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The reason you have "hot barrel walking" is because you are using Green Mountain Barrels.




Okay, I'm just kidding. Sorta.

It's definitely impressive to hear that a "well-known AR manufacturer" tested nitrided barrels and found no detectable loss in accuracy OR in throat erosion after 30,000 rounds.

Holy. Cow.

They also say that there are some manufacturers that "skip" some processes in the proper FNC / nitriding process and don't meet the proper spec (AMS-2753), so you have to look out for that. Also have to make sure that the extension is properly torqued AFTER the nitriding process because it heats the metal and *could* loosen the extension during the high-heat phase.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...rrel-finishes/
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old January 01, 2020, 16:26   #22
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Have a matched pair of 5.56 Wylde AR 15s with White Oak Armament profiled Shilen 24" air gauged 1:12 heavy varmint profile with 11° crowns and no threading for muzzle devices. Both have LMT Enhanced Bolt Assembly and LMT Enhanced Full Auto Bolt Carriers. With true "operators" switching to M855a1 as base fighting round along with a lot of heavier bullets up into the 77 grain range often in full auto (causing massive bolt failures with Mil-Spec bolts) but still needing ability to make an 800 yard shot USSOCOM contracted with LMT to design a new bolt carrier group that was significantly tougher and more accurate. As I always harp about slowing cyclic rate to increase accuracy and durability LMT worked from that theory as well as using tougher steel alloys, even heavier than Mil-Spec bolt carriers and other good engineering and materials principles.
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Dual extractor springs
Relief cuts on bolt face for smooth operation
Test-fired at LMT's facility
LMT's proprietary coating for durability against heat and wear

LMT's .223/5.56 enhanced bolts have a more resilient coating and stronger heat treat, as well as the cartridge case being fully supported by the bolt face. The modified cam path allows for a greater dwell time, and superior extraction. The dual*extractor springs help provide a more reliable extraction. Extraction is also greatly improved based on the fact that more of the extractor claw engages the rim of the case. The metal used to create the bolt is also extremely tough and a great improvement over carpenter 158 steel.]
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Our enhanced carriers incorporate a longer dwell time allowing barrel pressure to be greatly reduced and promoting easier extraction. For usage with semi-automatic rifles. Includes the carrier only, not the firing pin, cam pin or firing pin retaining pin.* Mil-Spec 8620 tool steel M16 bolt carrier w/shrouded firing pin. Added weight to improve cycling and reduce felt recoil.
These are the only two rifles that use the LMT bolt carrier as all of my other builds except Superlative Arms Piston Drive guns use Colt or DPMS Mil-Spec full auto bolt carriers. Many of my varmint and match type builds use Tubbs carrier weights to increase the weight of my Mil-Spec Full Auto M-16 Bolt Carriers. Because these two rifles are varmint rifles and not life or death fighting rifles next time they are out of the vault for a trip to the range am going to swap the LMT Enhanced Bolt Carrier Groups for a pair of Mil-Spec M-16 Full Auto Carriers with Tubbs Carrier Weight Kits and M-16 Clinic Buffer Pads with the same LMT Enhanced Bolt Assembly. Goal is going to be increasing bolt carrier weight and slowing cyclic rate down even more as they are running in the 600ish rounds per minute rate at present and want to slow them down another 100 rounds per minute.

Then plan is to move the pair of LMT Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group sets into my two 5.56 Mk 12 Mod H clones that would be my most likely zombie hoard invasion rifles or possibly the pair of 22 Nosler 18" Mk 12 Mod H clones as the extra 20% powder capacity of 22 Nosler and extra 300+ fps velocity may be better served with the toughest Bolt Carrier Groups I own. I bought a pair of HBAR 22 Nosler 18" 1:8 5R barrels and had threaded 5/8"×24 to give more steel at muzzle to reduce chance of belling then had them melonite treated to increase barrel life to hopefully 4,000 rounds before see first signs of accuracy drop off. Purchased 5,000 first quality nickel plated 22 Nosler cases and worked up a load using M855a1 projectiles that mimics the the new M855a1 but with an additional 300+ fps over the Mil-Spec 5.56 M855a1s.

Also have a 69 grain SMK load that really works well as has great ballistic coefficient combined with velocity that carries supersonic well past 8000 yards. And at elevations close to sea level with warm temperatures will carry supersonic to almost 1,000 yards. The third load I use with my 22 Nosler Mk 12 Mod H light fighting rifles uses Barnes 70 grain TAC-X copper solids that combined with copper solid construction, more than double caliber expansion and great weight retention will punch armor plates that 5.56 will not. The extra velocity of 22 Nosler with combination of the M855a1 or the Barnes TAC-X will punch average NIJ Level 3 plates out to 100 yards and have enough mass or pieces still moving to be lethal. The 69 grain Sierra Match Kings are too soft to break rifle plates but are so accurate can just make head shots out to 500 yards and not worry about armor.

While most of my 22 Nosler ARs are built on long heavy barrels the idea to do a Mk 12 clone and then build combat technology rounds that can benefit greatly from an extra 300+ fps without losing accuracy or self destructing on initial impact rather than carrying through barriers, armor or properly expanding if hit flesh that's not hiding behind armor or barrier was one of my more enjoyable projects. I actually ordered 3,000 more nickel plated 22 Nosler cases during end of the year clearance prices to fatten up my inventory of M855a1 and 70 grain Barnes TAC-X projectile Nosler loads for my high velocity light fighters.

Through the 24" 1:12 Shilen air gauged 5.56 Wylde varmint builds shoot a variety of 45 to 55 grain premium projectiles which found a nice node slightly above chart recommended maximum powder charge but did work up slowly and have never seen any signs of rounds being over pressure. Shoot a mix of 45 grain Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos, 50 grain Barnes TTSX copper solids, 50 grain Sierra Blitz King Boat Tail Tipped, 50 grain Hornady GMX, 52 grain SMK, 52 grain Berger Target, 52 grain Berger Varmint, 53 grain Hornady V-Max, 53 grain Barnes TSX copper solids, and 55 grain LeHigh Defense Controlled Chaos projectiles through these. All are sub 1/3 MOA at 100 yards and unless wind is unruly are laser accurate on small game such as crow and squirrel to 400 yards and larger varmints such as ground hogs and coyote first round accurate to 600 yards.

Only issue about building very customized rifles just about have to make appropriate ammo to fully leverage theor potential though there are some nice 5.56 factory varmint loads from Black Hills. Like 6.8 spc II I seem to find that most 22 Nosler factory ammo is loaded conservatively based on actual ability of well built rifles to handle higher pressures. I have a pile of factory ammo stockpiled for both 22 Nosler and 6.8 but 95% of the ammo I shoot are handle ads as is the only way to get full potential of both rounds. I would not shoot my 22 Nosler or even some of my 5.56 loads using the bolts that come in Palmetto and similar brands $79 complete bolt carrier groups. I would not use Palmetto bargain bolts and other similar brands in a 5.56 binary rifle using M855 green tip.

As to last question before this post a cold hammer forged 4150 steel with melonite finish might be the toughest barrel you can find. Say a 4150 CHF 1:8 5R melonite treated barrel would take a second mortgage on your house to buy enough ammo to wear it out. Stainless is going to be less durable but melonite will help mitigate that and quite often stainless barrels are more accurate than carbon steel as is easier for barrel makers to work with and especially if hand lapped to close the pores of the steel. If you don't own any 77 grain or heavier ammo or plan to buy any then 1:7 twist is not necessary. If going to shoot a lot of 55 grain M193 it's actually going to be a bit aggressive. 1:8 is perfect for 69 grain projectiles and does very well with anything lighter to about 52 grains then could over spin 50 grain and lighter ammo if shooting varmints but would not sweat it. But your idea of 4150 1:8 is solid and I suggest 5R rifling that is obtained by cold hammer forging and melonite treatment would most likely be a barrel that never needs replacement.
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Old January 01, 2020, 16:44   #23
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The reason you have "hot barrel walking" is because you are using Green Mountain Barrels.

Okay, I'm just kidding. Sorta....
I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do with this bit of information. I don't own any GM barrels. Am I to assume that GM barrels suck?

Regarding the walking barrel. I don't typically do mag dumps, but they have been known to occur. I do; however, have some experience with a walking barrel in the form of a thin barreled mini-14. I don't like it. I found a fix for my Mini's walking barrel, but once bitten twice shy.
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Old January 01, 2020, 16:49   #24
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...But your idea of 4150 1:8 is solid and I suggest 5R rifling that is obtained by cold hammer forging and melonite treatment would most likely be a barrel that never needs replacement.
Thank you for this information. Any idea who sells such a beast?
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Old January 01, 2020, 17:33   #25
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Just to provide a foil here, I took a PSA cheapie 16in SS mid-length 1:8 (with Magpul handguard and MOE SL buttstock on an Anderson lower using an A1 FS) out to the range last week (OK, so it was 23DEC2019, so sue me). This 'carbine' has a no magnification 4moa red dot Vortex Strikefire II (mounted on a Burris PEPR standard mount), with a standard front sight tower (mentioned only because it's not some railed fore-end).

Shooting at an 8.5x11 inch blank sheet of white paper at 50 yards, it was quite easy to keep five rounds under 3/4 inch. That's with Wolf Gold M193 and a M193 reload using the PPU 55gr M193 bullet and AA2460 powder in LC cases.

Perhaps not benchrest accuracy ( ), but just fine for my intended purposes...

Just sayin'...

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Old January 01, 2020, 22:50   #26
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Thank you for this information. Any idea who sells such a beast?
Here is a start:
https://faxonfirearms.com/match-seri...lon-extension/

https://faxonfirearms.com/match-seri...lon-extension/

A White Oak on sale for $228. May buy one myself:
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/sho...ld-875-16.html

Seekings Precision for $275:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101961785

For the money ARP have almost always been the best $200 barrel I have used consistently and is on sale right now for $179. Suggest you pair it with their $59 Enhanced Bolt.
https://ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/38007/55630
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Old January 01, 2020, 23:48   #27
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The walking barrel happens with all barrels just some it's almost imperceptible and others it's untenable. As barrel goes from cold to hot bullets will usually move up and right. At 1,000 yards with bench rest rifles it's not uncommon for first round to hit six or more inches low then by rounds three through ten settle into a nice group. It's why most will shoot a fouling shot to warm and the barrel plus burn any residual oil from cleaning out that your dry patches do not absorb.

Moly coated bullets were developed to reduce this phenomenon at long ranges where even good barrels show this natural tendency. Tubbs has a new boron nitride bullet coating that is much cleaner and works much better than moly. When not allowed to burn a barrel warming/fouling shot in some matches or just shooting in real life conditions where an enemy sniper or long range trophy animal won't stand still for you to shoot a fouling/warming round. Starting from a cold clean barrel bullets coated with boron nitride loaded by same person to same specs on same equipment with the coating being only difference in ammo and shot through same rifle starting in same condition can close the group six or more inches.

All my varmint and long range bullets are boron nitride coated and part of why my first round cold bore kill percentage on small varmints at 400 to 800 yards is up over 60%. Between better range finder, better ballistics app and better bullets with boron nitride my first round cold bore round is 90% predictable where it will hit with proper testing. At 50 to 250 yards with a good barrel first round landing significantly low is not as big of an issue. I test all my barrels from a cold bore after sighting in at its preferred operating temperature so I can learn how low a cold bore round will land at 200, 400, 600 and 800 yards and enter that data on my range card or into shooting app.

In addition to natural tendency for bullets to climb up and right as barrel heats there are issues like where stainless barrel extension, in carbon steel barrel meets aluminum receiver with steel barrel nut and every different piece of metal expands at a different rate with heat. If barrel nut is overly loose or tight then the movement of multiple mating surfaces is magnified. There are a myriad of factors at play but metal moves with heat, bullets act differently in bore based on clean but oily or clean and dry to nasty and copper fouled along with powder sitting in a cold chamber versus a pause between rounds after an almost full magazine and powder temperature can increase and cause that shot to go high due to higher velocity.

All these variables are hard to predict but with well built rifle and testing can build a model on where cold bore rounds will want to go, what temperature barrel shoots best at if goal is small groups in paper, where it will go loopy when scalding hot, dirty, heavily copper fouled and shooting rounds fast. It's physics and math that can't be avoided just reduced to point it's consistent enough to model cold bore shot at 300 yards versus a bore heated up after shooting over a dozen crow at same distance.

I have rifles that walk but all are minimal and predictable unless your 500 rounds into full auto suppressive fire. Equipment from barrels to projectiles and coatings with better range finding systems is why military snipers, squad designated marksman, well trained operators, etc are commonly squeezing 800 yard kill shots from 5.56 SPR/SDM and other SOPMOD M4 based rifles. Now AR 10s and M14s in 6.5C are reaching out past 1,200 yards and we see 1.6 mile confirmed kills from a cold bore using a 7.62×51. I have done more book study on the physics end of a bullets tendencies in past six or so years than entire life. Have spent enough money on books to read and learn the mathematical tendencies of downrange ballistics to buy a nice rifle with glass.

Education combined with well documented range work kept in a manner operator of a rifle can remember or be calculated in the shot computations is why we now see three mile kills with CheyTacs. It's not just giving a good shooter a better rifle, better optics and better ammo but also better knowledge of what his rifle is going to do in a particular situation that has increased range of sniping more in past decade or so than happened between Carlos Hathcock in Vietnam and the first Gulf War. The shooters are smarter due to better understanding of physics taught in a classroom in addition to what is taught on the range. But all rifles walk their rounds if use at long enough ranges to watch it happen. It's just knowing if it's a quarter inch or four inches of change in point of impact.
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Old January 02, 2020, 02:03   #28
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Battle Arms Development 1:8 twist mid length Ultra Match Lightrigid at $469. I am a Battle Arms Dealer and have to say the reason is I really like all their parts but can't afford them at retail.
https://www.rainierarms.com/battle-a...ght-barrel-16/

If want accurate and light can try a BSF Carbon Fiber Wrap barrel in 1:8 twist and mid gas for $616 which seems high but it's a lot of barrel and is supposed to heat sink well through holes in the carbon wrap. I have a BSF in 6.5 Creedmoor for an AR 10 which was about the same price as this 16" 5.56 and bet it can be found at better price as paid under $600 for a 22.5" 1:8 6.5C AR 10 tube.
https://www.rainierarms.com/bsf-barr...k-gray-fluted/

I recently paid much more than $379 for a 1:7.5 twist which is still waiting to be built but so many top shooters are using 1:7.5 lately I need to try one and see how it shoots. My 1:7.5 is a gain/transitional twist that starts at 1:12 at the throat with final spin of 1:7.5 at the muzzle. Have another gain or transitional twist barrel that is 1:8 at throat then finishes at 1:6.5 at muzzle. You don't even want to play with such on a build as discussed in thread but I need to know how transitional rifling at two very differing ratios shoot. Theory is can push your projectiles much faster as hit slow lazy rifling initial and slowly spin up to final twist rate.

Ranier Arms Ultra Match Mod 2 in mid gas and 1:7.5 to confuse you more.
https://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-...6-satin-10961/

Noveske Stainless 1:7 mid gas at $440. Noveske is in my top five barrels use for personal builds and top three for 6.8 spc II.
https://noveske.com/products/lightwe...ainless-barrel

The only chrome lined tube I would use but sets you back $515 for a Noveske cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel:
https://noveske.com/products/chf-chr...ed-lo-pro-5-56

$440 for the 16" Recon and only issue I have is Noveske only offers 1:7 twist but will notice all their 16" barrels only offer mid length gas. I know guys in Afghanistan who pretty much only run 14.5" and 18" Noveske Switchback rifles if their unit is able to go through USSOCOM SOPMOD program and source any 5.56 light fighter rifles they want for missions. No matter how nasty they get its an easy flip of three position lever to get wide open gas setting or no gas for super quiet suppressed shots:
https://noveske.com/products/diplomat-5-56mm-barrel

Now you should be either totally baffled or be able to pick the mid price to upper tier barrel of your choice. You may want to seek counseling first or be like me and drive a twenty plus year old truck and have barrels that cost more than the truck that carries them around is probably worth. Of course all four of my trucks are well serviced, run well and wife's is nice.
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Old January 25, 2020, 18:03   #29
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I've build a closet full of PSA kits. All of them work great. I'm a fan of midlength gas, nitride barrels in 16 inchers. Also they make a CHF middie upper that I really like. Be sure to order the 7075T buffer tube (stronger) and premium BCG when you order a kit.

Frank

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