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Old March 05, 2020, 22:20   #301
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Interesting stuff...

If you have a chance, I'd really like to see what you can do with El Cheapo with a decent trigger...

Or just throwing El Cheapo upper on the other lower...

Thanks for the effort.

More when I have some time (probably be in the next few days)...

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Old March 06, 2020, 11:23   #302
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Originally Posted by brunop View Post
I like best the ARs I've built around the Daniel Defense pencil barrel (16", CHF, chrome) with JP Rifles bolt & carrier. Light, handy/pointable, accurate, and smooth.
Great info, thank you. I know my barrel is precise. It could certainly be lighter weight, but I don't want to start over here.
You have me thinking about reworking it yet again tho. I love JP's stuff, but have never used one of their carrier groups.
Science is making me do it again... For the redo. For the science!!...

Anyway, thanks, b!
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Old March 06, 2020, 15:39   #303
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Have all the parts to build the pair of proposed cheapest and high end build with similar dimensions but not had time to pursue it due to life. My brother (younger but tried quitting smoking by switching to the Vuue vape pipe) and 18 months later had half a lung removed which was followed by two life and death heart surgeries as complications from fluid build up around his heart from the lung operation doctors didn't catch till almost too late. Drained fluid to discover a lot had calcified on his heart muscle and had to basically scrape it all off his heart with a putty knife. If you smoke stick to real cigarettes and not these chemical time bombs nobody is really sure what makers are using. Best friend smokes home rolled cigarettes using tobacco from an organic farm in North Carolina (a two pack per day smoker) is almost 60 and still races mountain bikes competitively in masters category.

Along with brother doing four months home health care for wife following her Jan 19, 2019 MVA and about time brother was in his mess just over Christmas doctors found a mass on wife's liver (found out last week totally benign and of no concern) eating huge amounts of my time. Add in my back problems and work have been lucky to knock out an upper a month of late, one complete AR 15 build and two complete AR 10 builds in past 12 months. Was used to churning out two to four ARs per month but hoping 2020 will return to some semblance of normalcy.

On your cheap rifle if trigger is driving you insane drop a JP 3.5 Enhanced Spring kit in it for $9.99 after lapping engagement surfaces with some toothpaste and bet it drops pull and crispens it up greatly. Have amazed some people who bring in 8.5 pound heavy and sloppy triggers with a no tools $9.99 trigger job that sent them away with a sub five pound (usually 4.25 to 4.75 lbs) that broke reasonably clean. I don't really like JP Bolt carriers as they tend to be too light for me but their bolts are fine and buy the enhanced trigger spring kits a dozen to two dozen at a time. Best entry level AR upgrade for the money have found IMHO. Glad your keeping on with the experiment.
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Old March 06, 2020, 16:29   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
... Best entry level AR upgrade for the money have found IMHO.

Glad your keeping on with the experiment.
Huey -

Thanks for the tip on the trigger springs - JP Rifles is good stuff.
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Old March 06, 2020, 18:50   #305
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When you install them I want to know what you think. May have killed some poor trigger manufacturers upgraded trigger sales to you. If you were close would let you use my Power Custom Hammer and Sear stoning jig. It's amazing how much better the cheapest AR trigger works if hammer and sear engagement is square and slick before the spring kit is dropped in.
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Old March 06, 2020, 19:09   #306
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Truth is, stoning jig FTW but I'm not spending the money to buy one and do it 'right' when I've been 'cheating' and buying RRA 'match' triggers and then (later) Giessle triggers. Most of my triggers just don't need it.

Truth is, I'd rather have the RRA triggers on most of the guns. $250/trigger = not that great an ROI for a good-not-great two-stage trigger.

If I were a professional shooter / 3-gunner, I'd be on their SDSG (whatever it's called) flat-face speedy-trigger-thing, but I'm not. I'm just a 'hard-holder' with good eyes, moderately steady hands, a low heart rate, and an affinity for recoil.

Good trigger is most helpful. El Cheapo don't got one.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 06, 2020, 19:57   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunop View Post
Truth is, stoning jig FTW but I'm not spending the money to buy one and do it 'right' when I've been 'cheating' and buying RRA 'match' triggers and then (later) Giessle triggers. Most of my triggers just don't need it.

Truth is, I'd rather have the RRA triggers on most of the guns. $250/trigger = not that great an ROI for a good-not-great two-stage trigger.

If I were a professional shooter / 3-gunner, I'd be on their SDSG (whatever it's called) flat-face speedy-trigger-thing, but I'm not. I'm just a 'hard-holder' with good eyes, moderately steady hands, a low heart rate, and an affinity for recoil.

Good trigger is most helpful. El Cheapo don't got one.
Just for the fun of it, try to get a tiny drop of oil on El Cheapo's engagement surfaces and see if you note any difference without doing any stoning. Maybe I'm full of it, but just the oil made a huge difference on a couple of gritty ones I had. My cheapo Sharps clone especially.
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Old March 06, 2020, 21:31   #308
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I'm on it. Thanks!

Entirely possible that it's got nothing on it - I was throwing parts out of a bin at Terry, and he was slapping 'em in there.
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Old March 07, 2020, 11:52   #309
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Purchasing the base stoning jig was not horrid (super nice as have correct adapters now for M1a/M14, 10/22, ARs, 1911s, Hi Powers, AK/SKS, Colt SA & DA wheel guns, Ruger SA & DA wheel guns, Smith SA & DA wheel guns and others) so once invested in the jig and slowly added adapters have done so many trigger jobs it is likely costing me less than two bucks at most per trigger job covering investment in the jig, adapters and sear fitting blocks so can tweak engagement outside of the gun with each trigger reducing it's cost per job.

When add up total price of machine, a pile of adapters and fitting plates it's not a cheap investment but I purchased mine with three adapters and added as needed so the sting was not as bad. Bet I have done over 200 AR milspec triggers and some are so bad that to get them square have to reharden them so they don't wear out in a couple thousand rounds. Even my Rock River NM triggers get a light stoning and it does help. Have even learned how to stone Franklin Binary triggers so when in single fire mode using the "light" spring that comes in the kit single fire shots break clean at 3.5 to 3.75 pounds but leave the binary alone as do not want to creat a trigger for the trash, first one I was very cautious as didn't want to throw a $350 trigger at time in the trash.

Before I owned the jig would coat the sear/hammer engagement surfaces and disconnector with Crest toothpaste and cycle trigger about a dozen to two dozen cycles using rubber block to keep hammer from striking front of trigger pocket. Would then remove, clean very well and reassemble with whichever spring kit I preferred at the time as was not always so many choices. The old fashioned Crest toothpaste makes for a very mild lapping compound and will slick up the engagements a bit without over cutting anything. Trick is blast all parts going back in well with preferred aerosol cleaner (carb & choke cleaner for me) before reassembly and I use a wax based lubricant on triggers that sheds dirt and water without losing lubricity.

The JP Enhanced Reliability kits drop trigger pull and give you choice of two different hammer springs so if the lighter one ever has a light primer strike can up the tension on the hammer. That said using a lot of US I milsurp and reloading using CCI military primers have never had an issue with the light hammer spring in the kit. Have seen a couple of rifles that got passed down the line to cheap bast@rds that shot steel case import ammo have to swap in the heavier spring.
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Old March 07, 2020, 13:29   #310
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Headed to the range with El Cheapo and a different lower (hat tip to Forrest), a couple of comparison-rifles, and some new ammo.

Report later today.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 07, 2020, 14:22   #311
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Originally Posted by brunop View Post
Headed to the range with El Cheapo and a different lower (hat tip to Forrest), a couple of comparison-rifles, and some new ammo.

Report later today.
Thanks, I appreciate your effort here.

I've decided that AR accuracy (whatever that really means to each of us) deserves a dedicated thread (that is searchable), so I started a new thread on it (after all, it's all about me... . But seriously, though, AR accuracy related to cost is an interesting topic in it's own right).

I look forward to your comments on the cheapie on the better...

Forrest
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Old March 07, 2020, 19:24   #312
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Went to the range with my buddies Jake and Justin. We've been trying to 'crack the code' on Hornady White Box Match w/ 75 gr. HPBT. My better sticks shoot that stuff into an inch when I'm back there, and 0.75 or better when someone with better eyes and hands is the Trigger Interface Nut ( TIN (c) ).

We did it. And let's just say that we are not just "approaching" the performance: we have the load. Muzzle Velocity is (theoretically) 2790, which is 140fps less than their Superformance load - which is pushing 75 gr. HPBT out at 2930 or 2940. Group size in my rifles isn't double, but it isn't that far off. It's true in the two barrel types (SS Match, CHF chrome-lined), three lengths (18" 16" 14.7"), and the three manufacturers that I have documented: Noveske, Daniel Defense, and I Don't Know (ss heavy barrel on one gun...). I'm sure it works for someone's bolt gun for killing groundhogs or something, but I haven't yet found the AR that likes the Superformance better than the 'Match' - and it's the same brass, primer, and bullet.

Three tests today:

1. Home made bullets: Dodge City 70 gr. soft point 'match' with brass jacket that came out of the old-school tool handed down to them by our old Scoutmaster at church. Makes spent .22LR cases into bullet jackets. Loaded like normal and at normal velocities (~2790 fps).

Picture of Dodge City Soft Point 'match':



2. El Cheapo (PSA upper + parts kit + furniture for $199: everything but the lower) on a different lower = Better Trigger. El Cheapo is The Raiders Rifle, and also has notes that call it the "PSA Gov't barrel". El Cheapo has a cheap Vortex Strike Eagle on a Chin-made mount. Glass is excellent for the money, and I mean EXCELLENT. Reticle is somewhat coarse, but very shootable, as there is not a top stadia line to obstruct the 1" red dots we were shooting. Anyhoo... today El Cheapo got an Aero lower, Geissele trigger, and A1 stock for the test. Lock-up was very good: no wobble or shake.

Picture of El Cheapo on new lower, trigger, butt:



Picture of El Guapo:

Just kidding - I've already posted that picture. Stainless 18" Noveske barrel with a Vortex Razor Gen II 1-6x.


Picture of my normal rifle: DD pencil barrel with Vortex Viper PST Gen I 1-4x ....




3. Dodge City Match versus Hornady White Box Match. Dodge City used the same Hornady bullet (75 gr. HPBT), but didn't use new or 'match' components: brass was range-scrounged (properly cleaned and prepped) with different head stamps, and primers were not 'match' primers.

Hornady is a client of mine (not shooting related), and I'm not dying to put what we believe we know about their load in print. I'm pretty sure any person here who wanted to do the work to pull down their loads and try their hand at duplication could come up with the same recipe we did.

Picture of Dodge City 'Match' versus Hornady White Box Match:

Just kidding - they're exactly the same.


Test Results:

1. Home made bullets were weighed to be within 0.1 grains of each other at 70 gr. Nothing that didn't make that list got loaded for this test.

Swaging should create some good concentricity. Not the same as lathing copper solids, but there's a die, and the lead should be pretty symmetrical. We have no control over the quality of the brass .22LR case. Those are ALL range-scrounged, obviously.

Three years ago they made a 'test run' for me to shoot, and shoot they did: I shot multiple 3-shot groups into less than 1" at 100 yards. We were ecstatic.

Outcome last week: Terry and I shot multiple 'Not-A-Group' that were 12" - 14" @ 100 yards.

This week: changed powder from the last set of test rounds. This time the tips went over BLC-2 and shot into a 5" - 6" 'Sorta Group' @ 100 yards.

There are only three things that could have changed:

powder type
powder amount
lead type (soft, hard, whatever)

We are still hopeful we can get back to the original type of Awesome, but we ain't there yet.


2 & 3 together (ammo + guns):

Picture of Target:




El Guapo (Novesek Gun) shot three types of ammo today:

* Frontier (Hornady) 62 gr. FMJ
* Hornady White Box Match 75 gr. HPBT
* Dodge City Match 75 gr. HBPT

El Guapo shot it's first round out of a just-cleaned-and-oiled barrel - four inches high. Next three Frontier 62 gr. rounds went in 0.6"

Picture of Frontier 62 gr. + El Guapo target:



Then, El Guapo shot four rounds of Hornady White Box Match 75 gr. HPBT & four rounds of Dodge City Match 75s... basically both strings gave tiny groups for three rounds, and I gave a vertical flyer opening up the group to 1.0" & 1.1":



Then we gave the same ammo (Hornady Match & Dodge City Match) to my rifle, and it shot 7 rounds into 1.3" with an 8th round as another vertical flyer. Basically I can't see the 1" target dot through the 1 MOA reticle dot, so I'm sure this is the shooter instead of the gun or the ammo:




Finally, we gave the same ammo to El Cheapo - with its recently upgraded trigger. Glass is also a Vortex, though admittedly of a lower cost line. Mount is also significantly cheaper that what's on the other guns (American Defense Manufacturing), though ADM makes the Vortex-labelled mounts, and El Cheapo has a Chinese-made Vortex mount. It did the same thing as the other day: 1.9" and 2.2" groups:

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Old March 07, 2020, 20:06   #313
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Very interesting...

Thanks...

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Old March 08, 2020, 17:46   #314
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Mebs, it's funny how much of that applies to me, too.

I turn 51 in three weeks. It's weird seeing 60 a few years down the road. I'm not giving up yet.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 08, 2020, 21:10   #315
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Very cool post, brunop. I plan to read again when I have more time.

Might you get better results with a smaller target, though (aim small, miss small)? Or, are your reticle(s) obscuring the target?

BTW-- JP carrier is on it's way. Pricey, but found one on the cheap.
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Old March 08, 2020, 22:56   #316
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The reticle on these less-expensive 1-4x scopes (and one of the 1-6x scopes) is a 1 MOA dot. It's definitely obscuring the 1" red squares. I think I'm going to shoot them again on a 2" or 3" black round and see what happens.

The more-expensive 1-6 (Vortex Razor Gen II) has a 0.15 MIL reticle line (cross-hair), which is about 0.5" at 100 yards. I could see a tiny bit of red on either side, which makes it easier to shoot. With the 1MOA dots, I'm trying to see no (0) red anywhere peeking out from behind the reticle. That kind of 'negative sighting' is workable to some degree, but isn't my favorite way to do it.

JP bcg are my faves. I'm sure there are other excellent choices.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago

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Old March 09, 2020, 01:31   #317
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Mebs, it's funny how much of that applies to me, too.

I turn 51 in three weeks. It's weird seeing 60 a few years down the road. I'm not giving up yet.
I threw that post away cuz I thought maybe it was TMI, but glad u saw it and know what I mean.

It's tempting to eat those Cliff bars and stuff to fill the void, because at first glance they seem good, but in reality they are loaded with sugar. Sometimes I junk out on purpose and I think you do too, but I share Juanndos' frustration when they sneak added sugar into whole wheat bread and plain cornflakes, etc.

Food austerity measures are no fun and stairmaster and those things are drudgery unless there are gurls at the gym, but it will feel good to get off some of the middle age junk.

At 10 lbs is where I can feel it, about 15 is where people go "are you losing weight?" and about 25 is where you can think about bell bottom pants. Once you start dreaming about food when you sleep, then that's far enough.

I read an interview with a gurl who was in adult entertalnment. She said she was always hungry from watching her weight. Being nekkid in front of a camera is about the height of unforgiving. She said the crew would bring in food while they were working, and the director would tell her to quit staring at the sandwiches.
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Old March 09, 2020, 15:02   #318
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...which is about 0.5" at 100 yards.
Yeah, one of the reasons I'm not a fan of most modern reticles.
0.5" at 100 yards is perfect for my liking. Anything larger is a big turnoff.
Even if it says Leupold on the side.

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JP bcg are my faves. I'm sure there are other excellent choices.
As am I, but... your recomendation piqed my interest enough to give it a go. I also ordered one of the JP silent buffer systems to go along with it for testing. You know... for science!
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Old March 09, 2020, 15:24   #319
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As am I, but... your recomendation piqed my interest enough to give it a go. I also ordered one of the JP silent buffer systems to go along with it for testing. You know... for science!
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Old March 09, 2020, 15:32   #320
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Food austerity measures are no fun and stairmaster and those things are drudgery unless there are gurls at the gym, but it will feel good to get off some of the middle age junk.

At 10 lbs is where I can feel it, about 15 is where people go "are you losing weight?" and about 25 is where you can think about bell bottom pants. Once you start dreaming about food when you sleep, then that's far enough.
I started here (FAL Files) in my early-to-mid thirties. Half my kids weren't born yet. Now I'm the 'older dad' of my younger kids in high school whose parents are 35 - 39 years old.

Not giving up just yet. Gotta play the long game if I'm going to scare the Interested Boys who keep showing up at my house.... Meanwhile, I've got to fight my wife off the eating thing: she's got a rocking metabolism and wants me to eat with her all the time: ice cream, little snacks, whatever. It's awful - I need to go away to fat camp or something. My kids see it happening and put on their fake Italian accents and say "Eat, eat!! Mama doesn't want a skinny man in the house!" It's pretty funny until I get on the scale again.
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Old March 10, 2020, 06:06   #321
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We can give up when we're dead or can't walk any more.

Right now I am down 7 from where I started and can just start to see it in my faggy face.
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Old March 10, 2020, 09:20   #322
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Old March 10, 2020, 09:42   #323
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 10, 2020, 13:55   #324
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Sitting around listening to PF is not good. You didn't squander your life. You raised a fambly.
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Old March 10, 2020, 14:06   #325
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..............
I turn 51 in three weeks. It's weird seeing 60 a few years down the road. I'm not giving up yet.
I am so glad that 60 is down the road .....someone told me that 60 was over the hill......






..............................
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Old March 10, 2020, 14:11   #326
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I am so glad that 60 is down the road .....someone told me that 60 was over the hill......






..............................
Over the hill or down the road ??

I turn 55 next week. Perhaps I am cresting the ridge before going down the road on the other side?
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Old March 10, 2020, 14:22   #327
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Sitting around listening to PF is not good. You didn't squander your life. You raised a fambly.
Mebs-- I intended zero disrespect in posting the above link. I am 41, and raising four kids myself. Trying to do my level-best to prepare them for service, and a lifelong commitment of relentless self improvement. I know brunop is a fine member, and father figure. His temperament is perhaps one of my favorite here. And, while I don't know him personally, from what I read; his kids are fantastic examples of the human race. I only shared as I personally love Floyd, and enjoy reflecting from time to time. Life goes by too fast, and sometimes it can catch us off-guard. Our focus can get caught up on things that don't really matter. My intention was not to bum anyone out. Apologies if this is how my post/link came across.
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Old March 10, 2020, 15:29   #328
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Old March 10, 2020, 16:05   #329
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I am so glad that 60 is down the road .....someone told me that 60 was over the hill......


..............................

I was in a gun store today picking up a Form 4 item. 80 year old guy was lying to the gun store people about his days in the Seals and how they used to blow up labs with viruses in them.

OTOH, he gets out there and hunts, and the gun store guys let him hang out and talk. They said he's in Africa about every other year shooting something.

I think "Over The Hill" is when you don't care or try anymore. My dad's 77 in a few months, and he's still rocking out.
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Old March 10, 2020, 16:07   #330
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Over the hill or down the road ??

I turn 55 next week. Perhaps I am cresting the ridge before going down the road on the other side?
Being on the ridge is pretty great. View is good, contour lines are easier to walk.

Don't get shot.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 10, 2020, 16:11   #331
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I think "Over The Hill" is when you don't care or try anymore. My dad's 77 in a few months, and he's still rocking out.


You will recall I spent the day and shot with him on his 75th B'day.

"Still rocking it" is an understatement for that man! Damn good man.
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Old March 10, 2020, 18:35   #332
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He had a great time.

Yeah - he's actually working hard on fitness: walking daily, doing push ups, squats, etc. He's busy finding examples of guys at work (that he used to work with) and church that are still alive and kicking 25 years after by-pass surgery.

He want to make 102, so he's going full speed ahead.

Still very steady hands: great machinist and steady shooter. Great mechanical problem solver: fixed/welded a buddy's trailer just this morning because he likes tackling the problems.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 11, 2020, 09:11   #333
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In many ways, age is a state of mind. I know plenty of folks who still blow and go in their seventies and I know some who "got old" in their fifties. Health issues will slow one down but most of the time, there are ways to pushback against those too. I turned 67 on December 29 and will admit that I'm not what I was at 57. All those "little things" that creep up or suddenly hit (doesn't seem to matter which) are cumulative in nature and tend to slow one down. On a good day, I feel pretty damned good; on a bad day, I feel like hell. But that's just the way it goes. Every morning, I can get dressed and get going and that's a little victory. From there? It's an adventure everyday!
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Old March 11, 2020, 10:39   #334
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Just as an aside, when testing rifles side by side or any new build I always put high power test scope on top even if rifle will have iron sights, 1x red dot, 3x red dot, 1-4x, 2.5-10x, etc in final configuration. Now have four test scopes due to issues with taking multiple new builds going at same time. Have a 6-20x, 6-24x, 8-24x and 12-36x for testing. Since discussion has been AR 15s didn't mention two recent 10/22 builds of which the only test scopes not already mounted to uppers waiting on lowers were the 8-24x and 12-36x. For my initial accuracy tests don't want my tired 57 year old eyes to cause rifle to perform poorly. Even a 1 to 2 MOA dot covers so much target it kills my fine aiming when combined wit astigmatism.

Recovering slowly from last week's nerve blocks with the huge swings in barometric pressure. Doc actually said most patients having similar issue around here for moment. Yesterday saw several squirrel in back yard at fence line which is 75 yards and closest rifle at hand was one of the new 10/22s with the 12-36x BDC scope that has interchangeable cams and found a cam that if use the yards as feet it does a good job of doping rimfire using yardage clicks as feet, 100 yards is 100 feet and so on for rough adjustment.

Dispatched first two squirrel quickly then third rather than increase distance which expected, it closed the gap and got so close I could not adjust out enough parallax or hold him in scope at 12x lowest power to shoot. Wife was laughing as I threw rocks and sticks at the stupid thing trying to get him to run away to so able to get a focused shot. Knew scope was on as was driving tacks at range when did initial test. Have a 4-12x and 6-18x Leupold for this pair and need to get them swapped out soon now testing is complete.

Side story over, soon as the test scopes come off go on next pair of AR 10 builds where 8-24x will go on a 6.5 Creed and 12-36x on 6.5 PRC. In my 20s and 30s could sometimes pull an AR 15 or M1a out of box and shoot sub MOA groups with factory irons at 100 yards. Had some friends at range once as unpackaged a new M1a, inspected, lubricated then dropped three 3/4 MOA five shot groups on X ring out of box with factory set irons. Was a good day, was shooting almost religiously at time but now have difficulty with fine aiming and 4x glass at 100 yards anymore. Thus four high power test scopes. At range the 10/22 with 12-36x 80mm objective scope got some odd looks but so did ten round groups it fired at 100 yards using SK Long Range Match.

May want to borrow some higher power glass off another rifle and test both rifles so low power glass and aging eyes is not a variable. Even testing AR pistols with 7.5" and 8.5" barrels will mount the 6-20x or 6-24x and shoot off one of my good rifle rest and rear bag combinations. When get into 10.5" to 12.5" barrels have sat in amazement at how accurate some were that would never had known if tested with the 1X magnification 2 MOA dot size C-Mores first trip to range. Have 12.5" uppers built for red dots that got 1-6x scout scopes due to how well they tested with a good scope when adjusting gas and selecting buffer weight one initial testing. At 24x and 36x the target is so well magnified only the operator can induce poor accuracy unless rifle just doesn't shoot well.
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Old March 11, 2020, 12:13   #335
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Definitely agree that an accuracy build needs a bigger scope to test - even if it is going to wear something else. Just to give the shooter confidence in the equipment and the hold.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 11, 2020, 18:44   #336
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Have a five gallon bucket of swaged 55 grain .224 projectiles using rim fire cases as jackets and a second half full that keeps getting more full. Also have some smaller containers where store swaged .224 55 grain bullets using 22 short and magnum cases that the shorts have a lot of exposed lead and have to trim the magnum cases then run bullets through pointing die to create what looks almost like a match hollow point. Plan is when have another Sandy Hook to have projectiles to sell when suppliers are out and will bring silly prices or shoot myself if need badly.

I learned that aiming small with high power glass shows me how accurate a build really is. Stunning when no matter ammo used discover some 12.5" builds on higher quality barrels out shoot 18" builds on Palmetto barrels. I like knowing rifles true ability with as many variables removed possible. Nail a big scope on, use a good rest, document results then swap on optics for units application. Have 1x red dots with 2 MOA dots on rifles that shoot 1 MOA because they were built for handy CQB guns but know if need are capable of more. Also have FALs that would pass out if was able to squeeze a 2 MOA group out of them that have 2.5-10x tactical glass. But know most guns 20x to 36x capability from a solid rest no matter what optic lands on them.

Have a local guy who upgrades night vision all the time and buys all kinds of items from $149 Gen 1 monoculars to Gen 3 phosphorus dual tube stereo flip ups. He has a bad habit of using the cheapest alkaline batteries that can be purchased at Walmart or Home Depot in bulk and uses his kids as an excuse. Today he had a monocular with less than a couple hours use with four busted and corroded no name alkaline in it along with a non functioning ATN Night Arrow Gen 2+ night vision scope. I removed the batteries from the monocular, carefully cleaned out all the crap, scrubbed the contacts well, neutralized any possible remnants of acid in crevices, installed four new Duracell batteries in their new black and copper premium alkaline line which powered his monocular up perfectly.

He was super happy that I rescued his new Gen 1+ $249 retail "toy" he told me to just keep the $1,000 ATN scope as he had tried everything and was not able to make it work. Opened it up and runs on a single AA which he had a no name discount AA with just a hint of corrosion on the positive end installed backwards. Said he had tried several batteries pointed both ways and when powered up just got a green screen with no detail. Pitched the cheap battery, wiped out housing with Q-tip and installed a lithium battery that has 10 year shelf life with 6x power of an alkaline which powered up the unit and immediately began to build contrast showing proper images and red reticle. Opened I.R. illumimator, pitched the Chinese CR123 and replaced with one of my $29 rechargeable CR123s which brought it to life instantly.

His cheap batteries tested in the red on my small battery tester and soon as scope got set of hot quality batteries it performed as well as my four other ATN Gen 2+ night vision scopes. Called him before he got too far from house to tell him had it working to which he said had given it to me for fixing the $249 monocular as already bought an ATN Thor to go on rifle had the Night Arrow on. That's more money than sense. Put cheapest batteries possible in high dollar electronics then when do not work due to low voltage and low amperage rather than buy some fresh batteries order a new scope and give someone like me a scope that sells for $1,080 at Midway USA plus tax.

Half my night vision is stuff he had less than ten hours on before upgraded and sells to me dirt cheap. Think he likes getting it out of house so wife does not notice too much night vision piled up in heaps. This makes three of my five ATN Gen 2+ dedicated rifle scopes off his rifles for pennies on the dollar or free. Two of my Leupold Trackers came from him when the HD Trackers came out. I have an HD Tracker but it does not make his earlier generation units useless. Showed him the helmet mounts use to adapt them to Norotos mount and add eye cup for flip up helmet mount units which seemed to not even grasp their value as backups or truck units. I need another such "friend" or three.
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Old March 21, 2020, 19:58   #337
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Thumbs up

JP bolt is simply outstanding. As is the JP reduced power spring kit. Finally thoroughly enjoying shooting my AR. Really not seeing the point of the JP silent buffer spring, though. I think that was/is a wasted bit of kit. Think I'll just switch to a Geissele super 42 eventually.
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Old March 22, 2020, 01:59   #338
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Yeah, they make great stuff.
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Old March 26, 2020, 21:44   #339
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I thought that this thread was dead!
It's not dead till the last bullet is fired .
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