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Old January 24, 2020, 09:17   #1
1911Ron
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AR15 pistol optic choices

I have my 10.5" AR pistol set up with a Law Tactical folding stock adapter, my intended use will be folded in a get home bag.

My AO is typically rural/urban area with a small town that I would have to go through.

The ranges I envision is anywhere from CBQ to around 3-400yds if that far.

What would be better, a Red Dot with a magnifier or LVPO 1-4 scope?
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Old January 24, 2020, 09:38   #2
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Don't understand the "typical rural/urban" reference. If you need a gun to get home, I'd suggest going around the town would be better than going through it. I haven't used a red dot magnifier, so I don't know if it's better than a LPVS, but even my sorry ass can hit pretty well with the scope, so it seems to work well enough.
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Old January 24, 2020, 09:44   #3
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Don't understand the "typical rural/urban" reference. If you need a gun to get home, I'd suggest going around the town would be better than going through it. I haven't used a red dot magnifier, so I don't know if it's better than a LPVS, but even my sorry ass can hit pretty well with the scope, so it seems to work well enough.
Where I live we have acre lots and farm land in the surrounding area.

I agree with going around the town which is easy enough to do.
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Old January 24, 2020, 09:47   #4
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I have a few of these 2.5ís and they are great. One sets on a 10.5Ē pistol and itís great for both CQB and reaching out a little. Itís a little heavy compared to a red dot but well worth the weight trade off for the magnification and reticle.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...eticle-pac2-5x
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Old January 24, 2020, 09:55   #5
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I either put a 1x red dot or a 2-7x/2-8x scope with red dot on top. Have you mounted one of your spare scopes to the firearm and even tested it's 300 to 400 yard accuracy. When I finish a pistol, SBR or nice rifle build I mount a 6-24x nice scope in top and test it to 250 yards. Since I am a barrel snob, use good parts even my 10" builds are usually quite accurate at 100 to 250 yards. (To shoot farther than 250 yards in range with benches, wind flags, etc is a 90 minute drive each way) I have tested off the rack factory built and others home built pistols with my 6-24x test scope and bullets were all over the place at 250 yards and basically a 100 yard minute of man weapon without replacing some parts.

Pull the biggest scope you have in the locker or in bench and test your build. It will tell you a lot about its potential which will decide your optic. Honestly if someone is over 250 yards away and trying to get home I am not stopping to engage but pressing the skinny pedal to right of brake pedal and putting more distance between myself and threat. Number of people that can hit the driver of a moving vehicle past 250 yards if add a little erratic movement are maybe one out of a thousand gun owners. If a military scout sniper is sighting on you and your either dead or lucky. Otherwise if don't know the speed of your vehicle most will never figure proper lead to hit you so just keep driving.

Most of my AR pistols have 1x red dots. Only 10.5" to 12.5" with Noveske, White Oak or Compass Lake quality barrels need much in the way of glass. A 1-4x may make a good do all but my FAL with a 1-4x has a 1x red dot mounted in tandem.
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Old January 24, 2020, 10:15   #6
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Originally Posted by jam762 View Post
I have a few of these 2.5ís and they are great. One sets on a 10.5Ē pistol and itís great for both CQB and reaching out a little. Itís a little heavy compared to a red dot but well worth the weight trade off for the magnification and reticle.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...eticle-pac2-5x
Very interesting, thanks!
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Old January 24, 2020, 18:14   #7
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Any red dot that doesnt measure battery life in years is a range toy, IMO. Now consider your scenario: why do you need magnification? Shouldnt you be figuring out how to skirt trouble, not shoot at it? I think a red dot with long battery life and no magnifier suits your purposes.

If you do want magnification go with a compact 1-4 with crosshairs and a dot. If dot goes dead its no big deal. But still recommend 1x red dot.

Used to think magnifiers were cool. Now I think theyre expensive, clumsy, heavy, expensive and ghey.
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Old January 24, 2020, 18:37   #8
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Baby ACOG.
1.5X and a circle-dot reticle in amber.
Thank me sometime.

https://www.larue.com/products/triji...t105-qd-mount/

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Old January 24, 2020, 19:04   #9
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I really like eotech’s EXPS3 if you want to spend that much
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Old January 24, 2020, 19:19   #10
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$1072 for a 1.5x sight? W. T. F. Over
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Old January 24, 2020, 19:25   #11
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$1072 for a 1.5x sight? W. T. F. Over
No doubt!
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Old January 24, 2020, 19:28   #12
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$1072 for a 1.5x sight? W. T. F. Over
Posted for reference and LaRue's stellar photography.
They can be had much cheaper.
Mine, which is carry handle mounted on an A2 pistol, was under 7 bills, new.
Buy once, cry once.
It was the component that "made" the pistol assemblage fantastic.
Everyone who has fired it, thinks it is super and target acquisition out to 100 yards is fast and easy.
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Old January 24, 2020, 20:22   #13
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Any red dot that doesnt measure battery life in years is a range toy, IMO. Now consider your scenario: why do you need magnification? Shouldnt you be figuring out how to skirt trouble, not shoot at it? I think a red dot with long battery life and no magnifier suits your purposes.

If you do want magnification go with a compact 1-4 with crosshairs and a dot. If dot goes dead its no big deal. But still recommend 1x red dot.

Used to think magnifiers were cool. Now I think theyre expensive, clumsy, heavy, expensive and ghey.
Magnification is not needed but would be nice. I agree avoidance is Paramount but if compromised some magnification would help I think.
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Old January 24, 2020, 20:27   #14
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AR15 pistol optic choices
Irons !

You said it's a pistol......
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Old January 24, 2020, 20:48   #15
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I have a few 10.5in pistols with the SBA3 arm support. All have the SIG-Sauer Romeo 5 red dot. May not work for you with your perceived need, but works perfectly for me.

Whether my perceived need (related to perceived threat) is appropriate or not is another story...

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Old January 24, 2020, 20:50   #16
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Irons !

You said it's a pistol......
Agreed.
Or a small red dot, you aren't shooting 200 yards and calling it self defense and you aren't shooting a pistol 200 yards either.
Get some realistic expectations for your tool.
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Old January 24, 2020, 20:59   #17
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I use Aimpoint PRO.
K.I.S.S.
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Old January 24, 2020, 21:04   #18
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I use Aimpoint PRO.
K.I.S.S.
Same here. Rugged, unbelievable battery life.
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Old January 24, 2020, 21:21   #19
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Irons !

You said it's a pistol......
Yes, except in my case with a carry handle upper and standard fsb, the sight picture was blurry with eyes over 50 years old.
So, the ACOG brought it all together for me and no batteries required.
Brace is the KAK Shockwave.
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Old January 24, 2020, 21:32   #20
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I have a few 10.5in pistols with the SBA3 arm support. All have the SIG-Sauer Romeo 5 red dot. May not work for you with your perceived need, but works perfectly for me.

Whether my perceived need (related to perceived threat) is appropriate or not is another story...

Forrest
Simple is probably best.
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Old January 24, 2020, 23:44   #21
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I run an Aimpoint Comp M4s on my 11.5" AR pistol. I also subscribe to the "buy once, cry once" philosophy. It's virtually bomb proof & it runs for years on an easily found AA battery. Good out to 200 yds if need be.
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Old January 25, 2020, 00:04   #22
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As an aside, while I like cheap batteries, I really dislike batteries that bleed and destroy your electronic device. Since most AA and AAA batteries are still NiCads, I try to avoid them. Since most other optic batteries are Lithium batteries (not likely to 'bleed' anything), like K2 (Vortex Strikefire II and many others) and 1/3N (Aimpoint CompM2) and the coin batteries (2032 and 1632, for example), I usually go with them...

I've had too many things destroyed by 'bleeding' NiCads to continue with them (except for some lights using AA or C or D cells, but then I must check the batteries fairly often)...

Forrest
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Old January 25, 2020, 03:42   #23
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A few AR pistols. Notice a theme? If need a scope I probably need a rifle under it.







Photobucket is loopy again and over half my images are "unavailable" at this time or would line up the pistols with 1x red dots.

This rifle with White Oak Armament barrel shoots sub MOA with a scope but sports a C More 1x red dot and is my favorite plate banger. It transitions from target to target quick and the 2 MOA dot doesn't cover too much of target past 200 yards.



This is a get you home rifle if have to engage distant targets. 18" White Oak with 2-7x Leupold fire dot and Burris Fastfire 1x red dot



Even these 14.7" 6.8 spc IIs sport 1x red dots.





A combat built 22 Nosler with moderate/high power glass and still has a 1x red dot nailed to it.



Have first round cold bore kills on coyote past 400 yards with this 18" 5R 6.8 spc II but notice the 1x red dot on 45į mount sitting next to scope.



20" White Oak HBAR with Leupold Mk AR finds a red dot nailed on top.



Binary suppressed SBR also gets a 1x red dot. Have found when running a course with lots of simulated zombies requiring continuous banging and clanging I can move fast with red dots and no magnification.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Last edited by hueyville; January 25, 2020 at 04:06.
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Old January 25, 2020, 07:21   #24
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As an aside, while I like cheap batteries, I really dislike batteries that bleed and destroy your electronic device. Since most AA and AAA batteries are still NiCads, I try to avoid them. Since most other optic batteries are Lithium batteries (not likely to 'bleed' anything), like K2 (Vortex Strikefire II and many others) and 1/3N (Aimpoint CompM2) and the coin batteries (2032 and 1632, for example), I usually go with them...

I've had too many things destroyed by 'bleeding' NiCads to continue with them (except for some lights using AA or C or D cells, but then I must check the batteries fairly often)...

Forrest
There's that....
And Romeo 5's seem to do everything I need on my 2 ar pistols also...

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Old January 25, 2020, 12:21   #25
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As an aside, while I like cheap batteries, I really dislike batteries that bleed and destroy your electronic device. Since most AA and AAA batteries are still NiCads, I try to avoid them. Since most other optic batteries are Lithium batteries (not likely to 'bleed' anything), like K2 (Vortex Strikefire II and many others) and 1/3N (Aimpoint CompM2) and the coin batteries (2032 and 1632, for example), I usually go with them...

I've had too many things destroyed by 'bleeding' NiCads to continue with them (except for some lights using AA or C or D cells, but then I must check the batteries fairly often)...
I meant Alkaline here and not NiCad, but I'm sure that goes without saying...

Forrest
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Old January 25, 2020, 19:36   #26
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A few AR pistols. Notice a theme? If need a scope I probably need a rifle under it.
By the way, for what little it's worth, I agree with huey here...

Forrest
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Old January 25, 2020, 19:49   #27
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Trijicons are sweet..for a trunk gun I would go with holosun or something from primary arms with an etched reticle that is not battery dependent

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Old January 25, 2020, 19:59   #28
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As an aside, while I like cheap batteries, I really dislike batteries that bleed and destroy your electronic device. Since most AA and AAA batteries are still NiCads, I try to avoid them. Since most other optic batteries are Lithium batteries (not likely to 'bleed' anything), like K2 (Vortex Strikefire II and many others) and 1/3N (Aimpoint CompM2) and the coin batteries (2032 and 1632, for example), I usually go with them...

I've had too many things destroyed by 'bleeding' NiCads to continue with them (except for some lights using AA or C or D cells, but then I must check the batteries fairly often)...

Forrest
Lithium AA batteries are common. In fact, we had no shortage of Energizer Lithium AA batteries, especially when used in Aimpoint CompM4 M68s and thermals.

CompM4 is an excellent optic.... and surplus examples are readily available at excellent prices (friend has been selling examples bought at Govít auction.... routinely selling for under $500 on eBay).

I wouldnít bet my life on an Eotech. Personal experience. Aimpoint is the way to go.... that said, make sure your back up iron sightS are zeroed.... and use them from time to time.

..... oh, Recently just purchased an 18 pack of Energizer AAA and AA batteries for the kidís toys before Christmas. Swapped out the A/A batteries in my CompM4 optics as well.... likely didnít need it, but considering that it has been over a year since I thought about it last, why not?
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Old January 25, 2020, 23:56   #29
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I would agree with others that if you are trying to make it some where in a SHTF situation, avoid all people that you can and avoid engaging anyone you donít have to. Itís not about proving anything itís about getting where you need to be.

That said I like the Eotech or Aimpoint. If one knows how to use the retical in the Eotech it can be used to engage targets out past 500 yards.
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Old January 26, 2020, 00:48   #30
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Lithium AA batteries are common. In fact, we had no shortage of Energizer Lithium AA batteries, especially when used in Aimpoint CompM4 M68s and thermals.
(Trim)
If uses AA or AAA batteries then lithiums are the way to go. Ten year shelf life plus ten times the energy of an alkaline and do not rupture leaking into your fine electronics ruining them. Also weigh about 40% less so if have a B5 stock filled with spares helps keep weight down and odds batteries will be full charge when need to do a swap.

I am a rechargeable freak. We have over 100 each in AA and AAA NiCads but have to remember they are only 1.2 volts which gets into longevity of run time before device shuts down due to low power but I have NiCads that are over 30 years old and still in service using a PowerEx/Maha advanced charger with break in cycle, basic recharge, discharge and recharge several cycles to force batteries to regain some capacity and a refresh cycle for saving batteries that won't take a charge from a standard charger anymore.

The twenty year and older batteries are used in remote controls for television, surround sound, etc that short life span is not important. The ten to twenty year old batteries are general purpose and all our flashlights get batteries dated under a decade old. I also buy mostly professional high energy rechargeables to start with which with a professional discount cost no more than consumer grade. I even have a lot of rechargeable CR123s but if it's night vision or high dollar scope use a lithium CR123. Even have rechargeable button/coin style batteries in bulk so if some day have a real collapse of grid I can keep batteries charged to power my devices even if it's a Mad Max world and no Walmart to buy batteries.

All of my critical and expensive devices have lithiums and keep about fifty each of common size lithium which rotate based in date so if suddenly electricity and batteries become unavailable have enough lithium to last a decade and will run all other devices off my NiCads using mix of solar chargers then professional chargers as necessary powered from generators, wind or big solar panels which will keep my telecom battery racks topped off.
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Old January 26, 2020, 10:44   #31
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I would agree with others that if you are trying to make it some where in a SHTF situation, avoid all people that you can and avoid engaging anyone you donít have to. Itís not about proving anything itís about getting where you need to be.

That said I like the Eotech or Aimpoint. If one knows how to use the retical in the Eotech it can be used to engage targets out past 500 yards.
I agree you should try to avoid others as much as possible, not sure if I want something like an Eotech as that might be overkill.

Red Dot works best close (contact to say 150yds?) I was kinda looking for something that would give me an advantage out to 300yds and be able to ID someone before moving or decide to stay put.
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Old January 26, 2020, 11:45   #32
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I was kinda looking for something that would give me an advantage out to 300yds and be able to ID someone before moving or decide to stay put.
IMHO, then you need a rifle, not a pistol.
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Old January 26, 2020, 11:48   #33
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IMHO, then you need a rifle, not a pistol.
And I agree with that...

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Old January 26, 2020, 12:38   #34
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Posted for reference and LaRue's stellar photography.
They can be had much cheaper.
Mine, which is carry handle mounted on an A2 pistol, was under 7 bills, new.
Buy once, cry once.
It was the component that "made" the pistol assemblage fantastic.
Everyone who has fired it, thinks it is super and target acquisition out to 100 yards is fast and easy.
I agree. ACOG is the gold standard.
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Old January 26, 2020, 12:40   #35
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IMHO, then you need a rifle, not a pistol.
I'm new to pistols so I'm still learning what it can and cannot do, I bought it and the folding stock adapter to fit in a backpack to keep a low profile and to bring out if things went to Schiff, I have several rifles that would work in the conventional scenarios and the pistol to be used in a low profile get home scenario.

For my 300yd distance I was more interested in IDing someone not engaging them if all possible.

I was once a Cavalry Scout and learned to see and not be seen when out in the boonies.
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Old January 26, 2020, 13:58   #36
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What you need is something like this:

https://www.opticsplanet.com/ncstar-...EEFL1624GSPR-A

The reticle is incredible. Not expensive, but plenty good for your use, and suits your requirements perfectly. A red/green dot up close and up to 6X for more distance. I wouldn't trust it for military use, but for most civilian purposes...

There's a really good deal on this scope at Extreem Tactical. Scope and quick detach mount for $107.79 with free shipping. Use code SEEFL.

For a better scope, at three times the price, go here:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/vort...tm_campaign=cl

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Old January 26, 2020, 20:28   #37
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I also have a Law Tactical folding adapter on my go-to, a 16" PSA dissy. Folded it's small enough for a discrete case in the trunk. I've never stuffed it into a back pack and all my current ones are too small but I've seen many back packs that are perfectly sized for this size package. This rifle wears an EOTech and I'm confident with it up to and beyond practical zombie ranges. I don't need magnification to identify zombies in my threat zone, my eyes still work well enough inside the range I feel threatened in.
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Old January 27, 2020, 09:11   #38
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Originally Posted by M90A1 View Post
What you need is something like this:

https://www.opticsplanet.com/ncstar-...EEFL1624GSPR-A

The reticle is incredible. Not expensive, but plenty good for your use, and suits your requirements perfectly. A red/green dot up close and up to 6X for more distance. I wouldn't trust it for military use, but for most civilian purposes...

There's a really good deal on this scope at Extreem Tactical. Scope and quick detach mount for $107.79 with free shipping. Use code SEEFL.

For a better scope, at three times the price, go here:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/vort...tm_campaign=cl
I bought one of those nc star ar scopes for my son a good hand full of years ago at the creek.
Not that exact model but in 1-4 IIRC,,,, anyway, it looks almost identical to that one.
It was a POS and a waste of money from the get go.
First clue was the adjustments actually worked opposite from their markings..The second clue was his sight in group was four times the size of his previous open sight groups.
Traded it in for another the next show, since it was too late for a refund.
That one is better, but nowhere near anything Id trust for much of anything,,,, or to bounce around in a backpack.....
If you really need a low power variable,,,,,Leupolds 1-4 can be had for around $200.
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Old January 27, 2020, 10:30   #39
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If you can find one on the used market I highly recommend the Redfield Counterstrike. Sadly they didn't sell that well as they may have seemed a bit gimmicky, but they were actually a well engineered Leupold product that was a red/green dot sight, combined with a built in red laser. The packaging was well thought out and works very well. I run the sight in green as the laser is red, so I can distinguish one from the other through the sights.

I have the laser zeroed at 50 yards, and the green dot at about 150. I just play connect the dots as anything between them will be a hit. Behind that is a Primary Arms 6x magnifier on a swing-away mount. That combination has taken pigs at over 200 yds on my 10.5" 300BO pistol. It's quite versatile in that if no magnification is necessary the magnifier swings out of the way, and if I have to shoot from the hip the laser makes that easy. It is my truck gun and Swiss Army knife. Too bad they didn't catch on too well, they really were a nice product, and I've yet to find an RDS with enough to offer to replace it.


Redfield Counterstrike Review


1 on Ebay
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Old January 27, 2020, 10:49   #40
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Originally Posted by jhend170 View Post
If you can find one on the used market I highly recommend the Redfield Counterstrike. Sadly they didn't sell that well as they may have seemed a bit gimmicky, but they were actually a well engineered Leupold product that was a red/green dot sight, combined with a built in red laser. The packaging was well thought out and works very well. I run the sight in green as the laser is red, so I can distinguish one from the other through the sights.

I have the laser zeroed at 50 yards, and the green dot at about 150. I just play connect the dots as anything between them will be a hit. Behind that is a Primary Arms 6x magnifier on a swing-away mount. That combination has taken pigs at over 200 yds on my 10.5" 300BO pistol. It's quite versatile in that if no magnification is necessary the magnifier swings out of the way, and if I have to shoot from the hip the laser makes that easy. It is my truck gun and Swiss Army knife. Too bad they didn't catch on too well, they really were a nice product, and I've yet to find an RDS with enough to offer to replace it.


Redfield Counterstrike Review


1 on Ebay

Had never heard of it but very interesting, thanks for posting.
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Old January 27, 2020, 23:55   #41
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... maybe it is just bad luck, but I have never experienced a positive long term outcome with any optic that uses push buttons.
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Old January 28, 2020, 08:35   #42
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Always wanted to try a SeeAll sight...no batteries required.

https://seeallopensight.com/

THE ORIGINAL



FOR PISTOL

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Old January 28, 2020, 10:40   #43
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Originally Posted by lockjaw View Post
... maybe it is just bad luck, but I have never experienced a positive long term outcome with any optic that uses push buttons.
Most of my high end night vision has only one or two buttons, mostly knobs. To have extra inepensive ATN night vision have worried about buttons till they released their wireless remote. First it can be placed on forearm where do not have to change grip on weapon or even cheek weld to stock. Just use a finger and press buttons on remote. If a button goes south on remote just buy another $50 remote and move on. Hardly ever touch a button on the night vision with a myriad of them anymore.
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Old January 28, 2020, 23:17   #44
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In my post above there are two rifles of five I took to the range today because weather was so nice and when called R.O. said nobody was out. One is the rifle described a "This rifle with White Oak Armament barrel shoots sub MOA with a scope but sports a C More 1x red dot and is my favorite plate banger. It transitions from target to target quick and the 2 MOA dot doesn't cover too much of target past 200 yards." It's the black rifle with 1x red dot and is affectionately know of as the Flaming Pig.

The Flaming Pig has a 12.5" 1:8 White Oak Armament/Kreiger barrel and had to put a 1/2"◊28 to 5/8"◊24 adapter then longest 5/8"◊24 Flaming Pig I had and tack weld it together and it came up to 16.015" from bolt face to end of pinned muzzle device. For today's range session I slapped my test scope in it behind the forward mounted C More. I also took the above pictured rifle described as "20" White Oak HBAR with Leupold Mk AR finds a red dot nailed on top." Which has 20" 1:8 White Oak Armament barrel and Geissele trigger along with two Mk 12 Mod 0/H clones which have Noveske and Douglas barrels. Final rifle took today was a 24" White Oak Armament 5.56 1:8 varmint profile with 11į crown rather than threads and muzzle device.

Got motivated when I had 800 rounds of match grade ammo from three manufacturers that all used 69 grain SMKs show up yesterday. Wanted to test some ammo and rifles. Turned out that the rifles all loved each of the flavors of match ammo loaded with the 69 grain SMKs to the point there was no clear winner at 100 yards so need to go to my 250 yard range and test to see if some distance will show one of the three brands to shoot enough better across a wide number of rifles to warrant stocking up on just that particular flavor. Had which was new to me Australian Outback 69 grain Match, Barnes Precision Match and Black Hills 69 grain Match.

Will have to pull targets from same rifles from filing cabinet to compare today's data to my pet 69 grain SMK handloads and Tubbs DTAC 69 grain SMK loads. Believe the handloads and Tubbs which I have tested extensively will edge out today's ammo but will have to shoot all five on same day over longer distances to see how they do in a group of different rifles. The thing that impressed me most as it always does is how well the 12.5" 1:8 White Oak Armament/Kreiger barrel shoots. Had a pile of sub MOA five shot groups with a cherry picked group that measured 0.58" with the short barrel and it held a solid 1 MOA and under firing ten shot groups. It was first day since Thanksgiving weekend was able to set up and shoot for half a day without a crowd and interruptions.
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Old February 09, 2020, 01:57   #45
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Aimpoint w/ Matech 2-600m

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Old February 12, 2020, 19:06   #46
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Originally Posted by ftierson View Post
I have a few 10.5in pistols with the SBA3 arm support. All have the SIG-Sauer Romeo 5 red dot. May not work for you with your perceived need, but works perfectly for me.

Whether my perceived need (related to perceived threat) is appropriate or not is another story...

Forrest

Works for me also .. !! .. $129.00 .. !!
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