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Old September 09, 2019, 22:51   #1
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phalanx type

phalanx type anti rocket defense for lower flight level rockets coming from the Gaza Strip into Israel

thats a lot of 20mm ammo being shot to bring down all those rockets

https://www.facebook.com/42569307462...4005213445053/
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Old September 09, 2019, 23:43   #2
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Wonder what the beaten zone looks like down range of all that 20mm ammo . . . In Paliland . . .

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Old September 10, 2019, 00:03   #3
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I think I may have got a bit of a chubby watching that......
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Old September 10, 2019, 00:28   #4
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You WILL get a chubby if you watch the Goalkeeper Phalanx system --basically it is the A10 GAU8 Avenger Cannon doing the work of the 20mm CWIS... I cannot understand WHY the USN went for the 20mm over the 30mm...at least for High value ships like Aircraft carriers..... The goalkeeper is used on Brit ships and some other NATO country ships..... I WANT ONE!
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Old September 10, 2019, 01:45   #5
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looked fake as hell
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Old September 10, 2019, 07:51   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoKodog View Post
phalanx type anti rocket defense for lower flight level rockets coming from the Gaza Strip into Israel

thats a lot of 20mm ammo being shot to bring down all those rockets

https://www.facebook.com/42569307462...4005213445053/
You would have to drastically reprogram the system to get that much firing time at once, or use manual mode. Not good for barrel life or judicious use of ammo. Your drum of 1,550 rounds would be empty in short order at 3K or 4.5K RPM. Not sure if the C-RAM version uses the same drum but I would think so.

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You WILL get a chubby if you watch the Goalkeeper Phalanx system --basically it is the A10 GAU8 Avenger Cannon doing the work of the 20mm CWIS... I cannot understand WHY the USN went for the 20mm over the 30mm...at least for High value ships like Aircraft carriers..... The goalkeeper is used on Brit ships and some other NATO country ships..... I WANT ONE!
I agree - the Goalkeeper system is bad ass. The magazine feed system is much better than CIWS, too. I was part of the loading crew on my ship for a while.

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looked fake as hell
CGI, but that is what the Army and other users are using them for. Mount them on a flatbed and put them where needed. Give them power and cooling, turn them on and have fun. https://www.armyrecognition.com/unit...res_video.html
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Old September 10, 2019, 08:07   #7
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You would have to drastically reprogram the system to get that much firing time at once, or use manual mode. Not good for barrel life or judicious use of ammo. Your drum of 1,550 rounds would be empty in short order at 3K or 4.5K RPM. Not sure if the C-RAM version uses the same drum but I would think so.



I agree - the Goalkeeper system is bad ass. The magazine feed system is much better than CIWS, too. I was part of the loading crew on my ship for a while.



CGI, but that is what the Army and other users are using them for. Mount them on a flatbed and put them where needed. Give them power and cooling, turn them on and have fun. https://www.armyrecognition.com/unit...res_video.html


hey, maybe they converted a 40' flatbed trailer to magazine duty ......

yeah its a stretch to think that but when the missiles start coming 3 or more at a time you do not have time to holler; "give me another mag"
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Old September 10, 2019, 08:13   #8
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Seeing our CIWS in use was chubby-inducing indeed. When we were getting weapons qualified off Roosevelt Roads we spent half a day alternating between fore and aft CIWS. Medical was right up front, 2 decks below the bridge on the main deck, the CIWS was right above the bridge on the port side. I walk right out of medical and it's firing 20ft above my head. The vibration generated in the deck was probably the most impressive thing about it, until the you saw the dummy missile turn to dust and fall into the water.

In addition to that we had port and starboard 25mm cannons that were on the main deck right outside of the medical dept. Got to play with one of those for about 20 rounds. Almost had to tell my doctor my chubby was lasting well over 4 hrs, and this was before the little blue pill was even invented! For the record I didn't roll out of bed that night.
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Old September 10, 2019, 08:50   #9
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That looks like a scene from a video game. Not Real at all......
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Old September 10, 2019, 09:31   #10
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Seeing our CIWS in use was chubby-inducing indeed. When we were getting weapons qualified off Roosevelt Roads we spent half a day alternating between fore and aft CIWS. Medical was right up front, 2 decks below the bridge on the main deck, the CIWS was right above the bridge on the port side. I walk right out of medical and it's firing 20ft above my head. The vibration generated in the deck was probably the most impressive thing about it, until the you saw the dummy missile turn to dust and fall into the water.

In addition to that we had port and starboard 25mm cannons that were on the main deck right outside of the medical dept. Got to play with one of those for about 20 rounds. Almost had to tell my doctor my chubby was lasting well over 4 hrs, and this was before the little blue pill was even invented! For the record I didn't roll out of bed that night.
Which ship were you on? I was on the Vicksburg out of Mayport. We had port and starboard CIWS mounts on the 03 level. During our Persian excursion, they mounted the 25 mm chain guns on the midships quarterdecks. Cool guns indeed.
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Old September 10, 2019, 09:51   #11
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The phalanx system has been a loser since it came out in the 70s. It could be of use under the right conditions for the right type of rocket. Such is the case in Israel.

With a defined border/threat area, low flying and primitive rockets, it should work as advertised. I would do something different though
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Old September 10, 2019, 10:34   #12
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Which ship were you on? I was on the Vicksburg out of Mayport. We had port and starboard CIWS mounts on the 03 level. During our Persian excursion, they mounted the 25 mm chain guns on the midships quarterdecks. Cool guns indeed.
It was a supply ship. After much deliberation and thought the navy called it the... wait for it... USS Supply. AOE-6. It's now a USNS and has been neutered. It was part of the USS George Washington battle group when I was in, and I assume it still is. I was happy to get off when I did since it was moving to the armpit of the country at Earle, NJ after I left, and that's where it's homeported today AFAIK.
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Old September 10, 2019, 10:43   #13
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That's an awful lot of ammo. Doesn't seem practical. Why not just have a drone orbit and take out the places they are launched from with some MPSM
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Old September 10, 2019, 12:49   #14
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Gotta agree with you on the drone strike. It's what I meant by 'I would do something different though' but didn't want to bring up the controversy of drone strikes.

It's easy to have IDF guys in Gaza. They could dress in local attire so it wouldn't be anything strange for the muzzies to get nervous about. They could communicate with the drone crew about areas to watch. They could not only blow up the missiles at/before launch, they would also take out the launch crew.
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Old September 10, 2019, 14:42   #15
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How often is a tracer fired? Looks like the all are tracer rounds.
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Old September 10, 2019, 14:55   #16
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I think I may have got a bit of a chubby watching that......
Yup.

Thats fugging sexy right there...
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Old September 10, 2019, 14:59   #17
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Wonder what the beaten zone looks like down range of all that 20mm ammo . . . In Paliland . . .

No shit.
Hey guys, was it really worth the effort firing a few rockets to receive the Devils rain in return??

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Old September 10, 2019, 16:03   #18
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How often is a tracer fired? Looks like the all are tracer rounds.
Probably 1 in 5, 1 in 6...at 2,3k rpm it looks like a laser! ...maybe impractical in some ways but oooooooohhhh so sweeeet to hear and watch...

Shooting a missile is cool but what is SUPER COOL is watching test slow mo footage of it shooting down an incoming or across the bow 5" shell in flight. Watched one and you could see the 5 inch spinning AND wobbling a bit. Then the 20mm start flying in around it then hitting it..fooking kewel!!!!!.

I have a japanese anime called Appleseed and there is a section with a gatling equipped tank, awesome piece of cgi anination. I will post a link if i can find or load one up..
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Old September 10, 2019, 21:35   #19
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That was bad ass.
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Old September 10, 2019, 21:47   #20
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A test run of the Phalanx CIWS:



Target Practice:

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Old September 10, 2019, 21:48   #21
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I got to tour the facility that invented that thing when I was in high school. I saw one in a giant radio quiet room tracking "targets". You wouldn't want to be in its way.
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Old September 10, 2019, 22:32   #22
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https://www.gd-ots.com/armaments/nav...em/goalkeeper/
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Old September 11, 2019, 00:19   #23
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I like the " download brochure " for the gau 8
Now i need to piece together an A-10 for 2020 riots
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Old September 11, 2019, 03:53   #24
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Here is a Youtube link for the Japanese anime 'Appleseed ' , this movie from 2004, still a cool opening fight sequence... not as smooth as letting the whole movie run but it was the only clip I could find.
The main character Deunan(blond girl) has as a back up a 10ga shorty semi auto shotgun she uses on the 'borgs.... Enjoy! Got a chubby watching it

https://youtu.be/qa7924EZFTg ***SCRATCH THIS LINK,JUST CLICK ON THE FULL MOVIE LINK



If you want to see the bad guys get it, here is a link to the whole movie, have to watch til about 6 min. in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elaSjcWNruU&t=2s ***CLICK ON THIS ONE....

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Old September 11, 2019, 07:35   #25
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I got to tour the facility that invented that thing when I was in high school. I saw one in a giant radio quiet room tracking "targets". You wouldn't want to be in its way.
Interestingly related...

The guy that talked me into joining the Navy was a retired ET and recruiter, but before that he was on the development team for the Phalanx. He said the initial tests were a bit comical, not it that it didn't work as intended, quite the contrary. They would launch a dummy missile, system would lock on, take out the missile, then go nuts shooting at the falling pieces of the now destroyed missile. Had to bring the radar sensitivity down just a smidge...
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Old September 11, 2019, 12:03   #26
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Interestingly related...

The guy that talked me into joining the Navy was a retired ET and recruiter, but before that he was on the development team for the Phalanx. He said the initial tests were a bit comical, not it that it didn't work as intended, quite the contrary. They would launch a dummy missile, system would lock on, take out the missile, then go nuts shooting at the falling pieces of the now destroyed missile. Had to bring the radar sensitivity down just a smidge...
Have to be sure.. it was displaying 'job security and determination'

Programmer for radar must have had OCD..
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Old September 11, 2019, 13:34   #27
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Interestingly related...

The guy that talked me into joining the Navy was a retired ET and recruiter, but before that he was on the development team for the Phalanx. He said the initial tests were a bit comical, not it that it didn't work as intended, quite the contrary. They would launch a dummy missile, system would lock on, take out the missile, then go nuts shooting at the falling pieces of the now destroyed missile. Had to bring the radar sensitivity down just a smidge...
As an FC that got to control the CIWS mounts via the Remote Control Panel (RCP) in CIC while at certain readiness conditions underway, I got to learn quite a bit about the system. I was the Missile System Supervisor (MSS) operator and the RCP was beside our console. Some ships put them with the gun FCs, some with the missile/radar folks. My systems were a fire control radar, solid-state 400 Hz converters, and a computerized test system, but the CIWS FCs were in our division so we worked pretty closely together. It will track and shoot at anything that meets the criteria as programmed. The radar sensitivity probably didn't get any changes - you want it to "see" everything it can. You set up your criteria - zones of coverage and target speeds to engage - and then decide whether to be in the loop with it or not. It can operate completely autonomously or require a final step before engaging a target.

One of our exercises with a towed drone resulted in the drone getting shot off the tow line and the system engaged the block that the tow line was attached to as it presented a "target" that met the criteria to shoot. The operator had to quickly safe the system. We never had the system(s) in a condition to shoot until the towing aircraft had "marked on top" as the system will not engage outbound targets as they would no longer be considered a threat. There was an incident or 2 where the towing aircraft got shot.
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Old September 11, 2019, 16:36   #28
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The vid in the OP is pretty cool.

But its from a video game.

CWIS is out of ammo in 30 seconds. With emphasis on the "CLOSE-IN" element of the acronym.

See Whizz wouldn't be very effective on multiple targets at distances such as suggested in the vid.

Guided rockets are preferred for knocking down dumb rockets.
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Old September 12, 2019, 02:13   #29
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Phalanx type

Some mis information going on here. Maybe I can give a little info . The Phalanx Close in weapon system (CIWS) was designed as basically the third layer of fleet defense. The first layer is the fighters (FA-18, F14, etc.) The fighters provide fleet protection at great distance from the fleet

The second layer of fleet protection are the missiles ( Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM), Sea Sparrow, etc.) The missiles provide fleet protection closer to the fleet, and pick off anything that the fighters miss.

The third layer of fleet defense is Phalanx (CIWS). It was intended to shoot down anything that happened to get through the fighters and missiles. Phalanx was not meant to be a long range system. It was meant to shoot down the closer range "leakers" that had evaded the other two defensive layers.

There are several phalanx guns on any given ship. Phalanx is to provide 360 degrees of coverage for its ship. Each phalanx is programmed for its location on its ship. This prevents it from shooting its own ship. Phalanx has two separate radars, one searching (looking for a target) and one tracking (target to destroy). In the automatic mode, the system will search for, find and destroy a threat that meets the criteria. Phalanx is self sufficient and once in the auto mode, only needs electrical power and coolant to operate. The guns rate of fire is de tuned and shoots about 3000 rounds per minute. It is so accurate that normally only a short burst is needed. The radar tracks the target and the last rounds fired so it corrects very fast. The round is depleted uranium and is dart shaped (sabot). That thing is heavy and really tears stuff up.

I would be interested in the facts of why some think Phalanx is a bad system. Anyway, hope this little bit of info is helpful. Regards, Johnny Lawson
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Old September 12, 2019, 08:35   #30
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Some mis information going on here. Maybe I can give a little info . The Phalanx Close in weapon system (CIWS) was designed as basically the third layer of fleet defense. The first layer is the fighters (FA-18, F14, etc.) The fighters provide fleet protection at great distance from the fleet

The second layer of fleet protection are the missiles ( Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM), Sea Sparrow, etc.) The missiles provide fleet protection closer to the fleet, and pick off anything that the fighters miss.

The third layer of fleet defense is Phalanx (CIWS). It was intended to shoot down anything that happened to get through the fighters and missiles. Phalanx was not meant to be a long range system. It was meant to shoot down the closer range "leakers" that had evaded the other two defensive layers.

There are several phalanx guns on any given ship. Phalanx is to provide 360 degrees of coverage for its ship. Each phalanx is programmed for its location on its ship. This prevents it from shooting its own ship. Phalanx has two separate radars, one searching (looking for a target) and one tracking (target to destroy). In the automatic mode, the system will search for, find and destroy a threat that meets the criteria. Phalanx is self sufficient and once in the auto mode, only needs electrical power and coolant to operate. The guns rate of fire is de tuned and shoots about 3000 rounds per minute. It is so accurate that normally only a short burst is needed. The radar tracks the target and the last rounds fired so it corrects very fast. The round is depleted uranium and is dart shaped (sabot). That thing is heavy and really tears stuff up.

I would be interested in the facts of why some think Phalanx is a bad system. Anyway, hope this little bit of info is helpful. Regards, Johnny Lawson
I think you're mostly right Johnny, but I'd argue that it depends on target type and situation. We had Sea Chickens, 25mm cannons, and the CIWS (and M2s and M-60s, but not part of this discussion). I think the missile system would have been near useless against a EXOCET or similar anti-ship missile. It was excellent against aircraft, but that's a larger, slower target that can't hide as well by hugging the surface and avoiding the Sea Sparrow's radar. Now days the small RAM is probably the perfect defense, but the RAM didn't exist yet so the CIWS, in that situation, was the best defense for a lone ship. Everything changes when you're part of a battle group, but that's not always the case, especially for ships like mine was at the time where we may have to "go get the groceries" away from the battle group. So yes, in a battle group, of course your Hornets are your first line, and the CIWS the last, but if it's the only option in certain situations, it moves up to first real quick.
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Old September 12, 2019, 08:57   #31
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When it works, it’s impressive.

I wonder what percentage of those guns are out of service at any given time. Much like the ice cream machine at McDonald’s.
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Old September 12, 2019, 10:28   #32
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When it works, it’s impressive.

I wonder what percentage of those guns are out of service at any given time. Much like the ice cream machine at McDonald’s.
I was on my ship for 4 years (with it for 5), and in that time, I can't think of very many times when our two systems weren't available. We had sharp techs that kept them up. Granted, we were new construction, and our systems were brand new, but hearing them talk of their previous ships and older systems, pretty much the same story. Not hard on many parts, electronics were robust - they worked.

Also, the Block 1A/1B systems are pneumatic and shoot 4,500 rounds per minute. You can adjust burst length but since it is moving so fast, a 100 round burst may be 98 or 103. Most rounds are now tungsten over worry of heavy metal poisoning from the DU rounds.
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Old September 12, 2019, 22:59   #33
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Phalanx Type

jhend170 - target type

Phalanx was designed to be part of a multi tier ship defense system. When turned on and in the automatic mode, phalanx will shoot anything that gets in the zone and meets the criteria for a target. "Anything " includes surface skimming missiles (exocet), aircraft, etc. There was also a sighting system for engaging nonflying targets. (ships,boats,lighthouses, etc.) This was not used very often.

situation
Right off hand, I can't think of any fleet ships in which Phalanx was the only defensive system. Maybe an LST or some Coast Guard types. Please enlighten me.

W.E.G. - when it works

I don't recall Phalanx ever being out of service (broken) except for very short periods of time. I also don't recall any serious design or reliability problems.
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Old September 12, 2019, 23:13   #34
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The US has also has one called the SeaRAM that fires missiles instead of a gun.
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Old September 12, 2019, 23:15   #35
mike law
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Phalanx Type

I ran out of space above.

I retired in 2008 and a lot has happened between then and now. I appreciate any new info you guys have.

I was the Lead Quality Assurance for several programs Navy, Army, and Air Force. I always liked Phalanx because it was a gun, not a missile. Being in Quality Assurance, we always got hammered when there were problems with reliability on any program. Believe me, you did not want to sign a DD 250 for a lot of missiles or guns, have them issued to the fleet, and have complaints start coming in due to quality issues. That is why I am surprised to hear people that there were major problems with Phalanx. Please enlighten me.
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Old September 13, 2019, 02:45   #36
loneeagle308
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How many of you CIWS techs kept the 200 round linked brass after PacFire? I's go get some from them from time to time. Still have one set left that needs neverdulled.
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Old September 13, 2019, 07:42   #37
C-ya
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Originally Posted by loneeagle308 View Post
How many of you CIWS techs kept the 200 round linked brass after PacFire? I's go get some from them from time to time. Still have one set left that needs neverdulled.
I've got a 6-pack (8?) that makes a nice pen holder. Yep, needs some Nevr-Dull. Got some of that, too.
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Old September 13, 2019, 08:48   #38
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It was a supply ship. After much deliberation and thought the navy called it the... wait for it... USS Supply. AOE-6. It's now a USNS and has been neutered. It was part of the USS George Washington battle group when I was in, and I assume it still is. I was happy to get off when I did since it was moving to the armpit of the country at Earle, NJ after I left, and that's where it's homeported today AFAIK.
I grew up next to NWS Earle..... know it well . I remember when they removed the marines there and went to rent a cops for security. The Leonardo naval road was fun to hot rod on...easy to out run the rent a cops. The ship had to be docked at the Leanardo pier - Earle was too far inland , but connects directly to the port facilities via the "private" leanardo road. There was some great deer hunting around NWS Earle... until newjerkistaniland adopted "no discharge of firearms zones to include even rural and forested areas. And if private land was included in those stupid zones yep - you could not even hunt on them during scattergun season...it was a felony to do so otherwise in that shithole.
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