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Old April 18, 2020, 06:36   #1
raubvogel
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Refurb L1A1 shooting


He claims about 1.6MOA from bag, which has been exhaustively demonstrated in this very site to be impossible in a FAL, as shown in the quest for a 2MOA FAL thread.
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Old April 18, 2020, 07:32   #2
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It’s probably the hat..
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Old April 18, 2020, 07:37   #3
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I'd say the music might contribute to it
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Old April 19, 2020, 05:23   #4
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I was watching, but didnt see it ever show the actual target or range he was shooting at.

I mean I can go shoot a bad ass group at 50 yards with the camera focused on me and tell you it was shot at 300yds.
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Old April 19, 2020, 07:06   #5
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I was watching, but didnt see it ever show the actual target or range he was shooting at.

I mean I can go shoot a bad ass group at 50 yards with the camera focused on me and tell you it was shot at 300yds.
There was a computer showing the hits on target. I am also strongly disinclined to believe the Bloke would fake a shoot like that.
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Old April 19, 2020, 12:05   #6
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I’d like to know what he did to “refurbish” it. Re-barrel with Lilja,or better yet Proof Research?
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Old April 20, 2020, 11:58   #7
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There was a computer showing the hits on target. I am also strongly disinclined to believe the Bloke would fake a shoot like that.
Exactly. AFAIK, all the ranges in Switzerland use electronic targets similar to the one CMP used in its new range.

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I’d like to know what he did to “refurbish” it. Re-barrel with Lilja,or better yet Proof Research?
I would expect Enfield or whatever Armory the British Army used (hence "factory"), and it was then bagged and stored until being finally sold out. The proofing he meant could be the required for imported firearms. That is my conjecture; you could ask him. I think he'd have no qualms describing how he ended up with it.
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Old April 20, 2020, 12:05   #8
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Thanks for sharing!

I watched the video and got the impression that the shooter knew how to shoot.
He obviously has the capability with the iron sights to say the least.
Great example of an L1A1 shoot!
Thanks again for sharing!
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Old April 20, 2020, 15:45   #9
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The proofing he meant could be the required for imported firearms. That is my conjecture; you could ask him. I think he'd have no qualms describing how he ended up with it.
Everyone knows these rifles are only 4-5 moa rifles.
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Old April 21, 2020, 05:50   #10
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I did ask him. Pick it up at his LGS.
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Old April 21, 2020, 07:55   #11
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What "factory" refurbed that? Since that appears to be a metric type III receiver, that would be a BTR....Bubba Total Repair.
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Old April 26, 2020, 16:11   #12
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Everyone knows these rifles are only 4-5 moa rifles.
That's absolutely right. I'll trade you an AR for each of your FALs
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Old April 26, 2020, 16:51   #13
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What the heck software is that???? It shows hits on a monitor? I’m in love and I don’t even know her name or how expensive she is.
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Old April 26, 2020, 18:23   #14
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What the heck software is that???? It shows hits on a monitor? I’m in love and I don’t even know her name or how expensive she is.
It's a whole range system. I forget the name of the company that makes it. It's pricey. There are target cameras that let you see bullet holes.
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Old April 26, 2020, 18:42   #15
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I’d like to know what he did to “refurbish” it. Re-barrel with Lilja,or better yet Proof Research?
I asked him in the comments section. Just got a curt response from him "it's an L1A1" I followed with a response for a more in depth answer-crickets.
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Old April 26, 2020, 18:47   #16
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What "factory" refurbed that? Since that appears to be a metric type III receiver, that would be a BTR....Bubba Total Repair.
Actually it is a bonafide L1A1. Freeze the video at 2:01 and you'll see a better view of the receiver.
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Old April 26, 2020, 22:39   #17
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Bisley has them - https://nra.org.uk/nra-bisley/ranges...ronic-targets/
Tho' I don't think the video is at Bisley - going by the C/U of the screem at the end, I would say Netherlands, Germany, perhaps!!
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Old April 26, 2020, 22:41   #18
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Actually it is a bonafide L1A1. Freeze the video at 2:01 and you'll see a better view of the receiver.
.....yep its the real deal.
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Old April 27, 2020, 06:14   #19
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Bisley has them - https://nra.org.uk/nra-bisley/ranges...ronic-targets/
Tho' I don't think the video is at Bisley - going by the C/U of the screem at the end, I would say Netherlands, Germany, perhaps!!
It is Switzerland!
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Old May 19, 2020, 05:18   #20
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I asked him in the comments section. Just got a curt response from him "it's an L1A1" I followed with a response for a more in depth answer-crickets.
Seeing his comment section has only 3 replies, it sounds like someone has been sanitizing them. If that was him, my opinion about the Bloke would have dropped a bit.

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It is Switzerland!
Exactly. AFAIK the outdoor ranges there have to have that unless it is one of their large competitions. And that caused a few ranges to close down as that gear is expensive since only a few systems are approved.
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Old May 21, 2020, 12:32   #21
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Thats same system CMP and a few private ranges use here in the states. Id like to know what FACTORY refurbed that rifle, unless its like a previous poster said was FTR’d by one of the various arsenals and stowed in war stocks until sold recently as surplus perhaps.

Other then that the only places I know of are my Garage (and that of some of you gents) and Mark’s Shop of course. Only way I can get a group like that to show with any of mine is if I fire about 50 rounds into the target at 100 meters with the rifle sandbagged then it looks fantastic, but only 5 -7 rounds no , the groups are 2.5-4 MOA ...and they all stack, meaning groups go straight up and down. He is either the finest SLR shot I have ever seen, or he’s FOS.


I mean is it possible, sure , lighting fire to my farts and flying is possible too. But I seriously doubt it. Maybe with a SUIT but with regular SLR Irons I doubt it .


Was he maybe only shooting at 25M or maybe 50 ? Then Id say maybe
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Old May 21, 2020, 14:52   #22
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Thats same system CMP and a few private ranges use here in the states. Id like to know what FACTORY refurbed that rifle, unless its like a previous poster said was FTR’d by one of the various arsenals and stowed in war stocks until sold recently as surplus perhaps.

Other then that the only places I know of are my Garage (and that of some of you gents) and Mark’s Shop of course. Only way I can get a group like that to show with any of mine is if I fire about 50 rounds into the target at 100 meters with the rifle sandbagged then it looks fantastic, but only 5 -7 rounds no , the groups are 2.5-4 MOA ...and they all stack, meaning groups go straight up and down. He is either the finest SLR shot I have ever seen, or he’s FOS.


I mean is it possible, sure , lighting fire to my farts and flying is possible too. But I seriously doubt it. Maybe with a SUIT but with regular SLR Irons I doubt it .


Was he maybe only shooting at 25M or maybe 50 ? Then Id say maybe
That's the outdoor range he typically shoots at in his videos. He always says it's 300 meters.
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Old May 21, 2020, 15:57   #23
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Well, he posted that the black was 60 cm in diameter. That equals about 23½ inches. That means that from bull to edge is 11 inches. 300 yds MOA is 3 inches and 2 MOA would be 6 inches. The groups I saw on the screen were all about half of one side of the black or larger. That means he was shooting on either side of 2 MOA. Kind of what people have been saying for long time. FALs are +2MOA rifles.
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Old May 21, 2020, 16:10   #24
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Kind of what people have been saying for long time. FALs are +2MOA rifles.
They say that sometimes. Other times it's +3MOA or even +4MOA, depending on the argument at hand.

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Old May 21, 2020, 22:36   #25
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Christ this is getting real Lame

all this bantering about MOA is real stupid shit guys
Garands were typically well over 2MOA
what you suppose K98s were huh ?
SMLEs
Lord I can go on and on with regards to all this crap
most were 3 to 4 MOA brandy assed new including rock stock M14s
BATTLE RIFLES boy bots
in the actual field any bedding was lost
seen Garands with mint bores that were lucky to do 3MOA, old DCM guns

I built one L1 years ago that was a 1MOA gun, pure luck
all new Canadian bits and barrel
just went together right
wasn't by any plan at all

Okay, how about AKs ?
if a FAL is a 3 or 4 MOA gun most AKs just have to be like 8+ MOA
they are not
mostly made up shit adopted by goofs

further MOA is mostly meaningless in typical contact range in America
you live with forests you won't be shooting long range
So other than a few States you shoot at 100 yards or less mostly
guess what, MOA don't play much into that distance
shit, nearly all killing in Rhodesia and the SA was under 100 yards and that was largely open terrain.

Most shots during WWII were very WELL under a 100 yards
VietNam was often under 50'
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Old May 22, 2020, 00:45   #26
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We're bantering about MOA at this point because the man in the video did something that many people here consider to be absolutely impossible. Even after seeing it, many still maintain that position, dismissing the evidence as fakery rather than consider the possibility that they might be wrong.

As for the Garands, AKs, K98s, etc., the minimum accuracy standard is the worst accuracy a gun can have and still be fielded. That doesn't mean that none of them did better. It certainly doesn't indicate that the design isn't capable of better. The minimum accuracy standard for M4s is either 3 or 4 MOA. I don't remember which. I don't think anyone here will argue that the AR design isn't capable of better than that.

A lot of those old K98s, Enfields, etc. are still able to measure up to minimum standards or better, despite being 80+ years old with god knows how many rounds through them.

I will agree that, in practical shooting scenarios, none of us will notice a difference between a 1MOA gun and a 2MOA gun.

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Old May 22, 2020, 04:39   #27
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We're bantering because we're old, and bored, and can't sleep at night. Leave us alone.

Oh. Well it does a appear that you're bantering also. Never mind. Carrie on.
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Old May 23, 2020, 03:46   #28
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Im happy with my eyes anymore if I can do what your average US Marine is supposed to ,...I said supposed to ,be able to do with his personal weapon be it carbine or rifle at 100 meters, and thats put 10 rounds in a 19” x 19” square that is supposed to represent the average torso of an asshole to verify his ( or her or its, we have to cover everything one may “identify as” ) BZO.

This is with a $1700 trijicon 4x32 optic on top of their little , mostly FN made now, pop gun. Of course they are required to do all manner of fancy things aftet ,and after they have zero’d , bettween 25 and 5 yd lines on combat marksmanship course, But the 100m shoot is just to confirm everything is right and they smacked the sight corrections into their ACOGs and all that sontheir BDC is set.

So Since I know mine are zero’d , no reason to waste ammo on that I just plink along at 100m sometimes I get randy and shoot at 200m but its pretty far to walk to swap targets, not that i cant handle that, I walk alll the time, but it holds everyone else on range up cause I sure as shit aint running. Those days are over, well Im sure I could be convinced if someone could find a jihadist to shot at my heels. Point is if you can shoot what we all know as Minute of A$&hole at 100m your fine and its best I can do because my eyes focus is slowly leaving me , because unless you are setup to be a DM or Sniper 100m is probably gonna be the furthest your gonna shoot for self defense or whatever scenario your thinking in your head. Not saying you shouldnt have something for shooting at 200 plus but not your normal everyday grunts piece.

Anyway is what this guy did possible, I guess so, could he have been filming the range plotter of the guy next to him with a Glassed Remington 700 yeah maybe that too who knows.
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Old May 24, 2020, 09:21   #29
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Not sure how to embed but here he is shooting an M16A1 at 300m:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYfvL-mYLdw

He says he got about 4moa out of it.

If he's trying to mislead us as to his marksmanship prowess, as some suggest, he seems to be doing so very conservatively.
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Old May 24, 2020, 15:57   #30
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Not sure how to embed but here he is shooting an M16A1 at 300m:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYfvL-mYLdw

He says he got about 4moa out of it.

If he's trying to mislead us as to his marksmanship prowess, as some suggest, he seems to be doing so very conservatively.
.....I literally watched that video last night (new unfired M16A1 !!) and was going to land here and post it as I thought this gave a better indication of the range he is using.
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Old May 24, 2020, 16:30   #31
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Watched the AR video, and I'm pretty sure he made an unintentional mistake when he said in his previous video his L1A1 shot 1 2/3 MOA. When you compare the 5 shot SLR group on the the video at 2:07, then compare it to the M16A1 video at 2:47, you see the M16 did a little better. His 4+- MOA group (4:07 on the video) was a 10 shot group. I think he meant to say the L1A1 shot 2-3 MOA which makes more sense to me.
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Old May 25, 2020, 07:34   #32
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^^^Makes more sense to me guy doesnt really strike me as a braggart or anything, I was a little mean I suppose on my earlier post. The M16 is def more capable with right shooter of 1”+/- MOA groups. Maybe just language barrier translation, missed context whatever.
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