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Old April 07, 2020, 16:05   #1
Tak
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Brighton, CO police handcuff man for fake social distance violation

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...g-order-video/

unless there's something else to this story that's not clear, these cops should be removed from the force and lose all their credentialing.

and that's being kind. Again, if there were no other circumstances we're not being told, honestly they should be jailed or simply hanged as traitors to the constitution.

Quote:
“He’s being taken by the Brighton police for playing softball with his daughter in an empty park,”
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Old April 07, 2020, 22:04   #2
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Well, multiple piggers involved

in other words this was accepted department pigger policy over the fake drama

here's the deal folks
jurisdictions rely on taxing bad behavior
normally it's bar related
most states don't have that right now so in some they enabled piggers to extract a flu tax

WEG, we got into it before but this soft Martial Law is total BS to collect city taxation and apparently there was no bad behavior
just piggers doing quota with no bars open

shit I'd get names, maybe a couple months or more later spill acetone all over their personal vehicle, perhaps 30 grit the windshield in front of the steering wheel, just a couple deep hard swipes

squirt super glue into door locks
trick is to consider the deductible on insurance so they have to pay out

done that shit

I don't at all like the full Nazi crap
there should be consquences for going all Jack Boot on the public.
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Old April 08, 2020, 01:05   #3
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Originally Posted by Riversidesports View Post
Well, multiple piggers involved

in other words this was accepted department pigger policy over the fake drama

........
Multiple piggers?

Exactly when do you graduate high school? Could you possibly be more juvenile? I don't care how or if the cops were wrong you are a total embarrassment to all American citizens. Do you even know how to have a rational conversation? Are you drunk?
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Old April 08, 2020, 01:28   #4
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I saw this in the local news (Colorado Springs)
The story here locally presents a bit differently.
The Police approached and asked the Father for his ID.
It was his refusal to show ID that got him cuffed.

The Mayor here in Colorado Springs is the former Colo. State Attorney General.
He publicly stated that he would NOT use the force of law to enforce this lock down. He felt that it would be counter-productive.
He acknowledged that we have 5 US Military bases locally, and a WHOLE LOT of DoD contractors, and he cannot manage/restrict what the DoD requires.

What has disturbed me is just how many calls the local citizens have made about people gathering.
Both Denver and Colorado Springs have had to set up a separate number as those "social gathering" calls were flooding 911.
They have had so many complaints about the use of the public recreational area (golf, tennis, basketball) that it made the news and caused the city to craft special use rules to keep them open.
It is sad to see areas of city parks all taped off, but at least the Mayor said they would not have the Police monitoring the parks.

Richard
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Old April 08, 2020, 02:52   #5
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Originally Posted by Jaxxas View Post
Multiple piggers?

Exactly when do you graduate high school? Could you possibly be more juvenile? I don't care how or if the cops were wrong you are a total embarrassment to all American citizens. Do you even know how to have a rational conversation? Are you drunk?
No, you and your type are the embarrassment to the history of this Nation

you stated it plainly indeed
You don't give one solitary Damn' if your piggers were in the total wrong
like most any Karen you want your piggers respected don't you !

Richard indicated the pigger position was a refusal to present papers
some States require that, not many
don't know if Colorado is one
generally speaking piggers get kunt hurt when a citizen properly tells them to go fuk themselves when they play on some Judge Dread routine
have had two fired over the years over stupid shit like that
it was that or lawsuit

now I have great respect for real LE
porkers porking with a citizen tossing ball in a park with daughter ?
and here you are defending all that Martial Law mentality...sheesh Karen
what are you, a Bloomberg type ?

seems so
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Old April 08, 2020, 08:51   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APEXgunparts View Post
I saw this in the local news (Colorado Springs)
The story here locally presents a bit differently.
The Police approached and asked the Father for his ID.
It was his refusal to show ID that got him cuffed.

The Mayor here in Colorado Springs is the former Colo. State Attorney General.
He publicly stated that he would NOT use the force of law to enforce this lock down. He felt that it would be counter-productive.
He acknowledged that we have 5 US Military bases locally, and a WHOLE LOT of DoD contractors, and he cannot manage/restrict what the DoD requires.

What has disturbed me is just how many calls the local citizens have made about people gathering.
Both Denver and Colorado Springs have had to set up a separate number as those "social gathering" calls were flooding 911.
They have had so many complaints about the use of the public recreational area (golf, tennis, basketball) that it made the news and caused the city to craft special use rules to keep them open.
It is sad to see areas of city parks all taped off, but at least the Mayor said they would not have the Police monitoring the parks.

Richard
So you have to present ID in Colorado Springs? Anything else they require?

"piggers" is a bit juvenile, JBT probably fits better.
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Old April 08, 2020, 09:11   #7
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Originally Posted by TedKennedy View Post
So you have to present ID in Colorado Springs? Anything else they require?

"piggers" is a bit juvenile, JBT probably fits better.
Actually that is nothing new.
During my lifetime every face to face encounter I have had with Police (weather civilian or military) I was asked for my ID.
When I have had to call the police dispatch number I am always asked for my name.

As I referenced above CSPD and EPSO are not responding to the public's calls about public gatherings.
They direct those calls to the county health department.
If the county health department sees it as a problem then they will send the police out.
The local police (CSPD) have stated they are handling most calls now over the phone or via the web site, trying to reduce person to person exposure.
They WILL show up at your door for a domestic violence call.

EPSO has had one COVID-19 death, and both them and CSPD are short handed because of sick officers.

I have the local police and fire dispatch up on my PC everyday via "broadcastify".
They are plenty busy now with brush fires and "difficulty breathing" calls.
I have also noted a slight uptick in "suicide" calls (just heard one, Mother going to kill her kids and herself)
Many of the brush fires are at the gypsy camps and so the CSPD has to be on hand along with the fire fighters.
What I am saying is I have heard ZERO calls about issues with physical distancing and everyone is busier than usual with emergency calls.

Richard
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Old April 08, 2020, 09:20   #8
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APEXgunparts View Post
I saw this in the local news (Colorado Springs)
The story here locally presents a bit differently.
The Police approached and asked the Father for his ID.
It was his refusal to show ID that got him cuffed.

The Mayor here in Colorado Springs is the former Colo. State Attorney General.
He publicly stated that he would NOT use the force of law to enforce this lock down. He felt that it would be counter-productive.
He acknowledged that we have 5 US Military bases locally, and a WHOLE LOT of DoD contractors, and he cannot manage/restrict what the DoD requires.

What has disturbed me is just how many calls the local citizens have made about people gathering.
Both Denver and Colorado Springs have had to set up a separate number as those "social gathering" calls were flooding 911.
They have had so many complaints about the use of the public recreational area (golf, tennis, basketball) that it made the news and caused the city to craft special use rules to keep them open.
It is sad to see areas of city parks all taped off, but at least the Mayor said they would not have the Police monitoring the parks.

Richard
The police had no valid reason to initiate contact with the man, so he had no legal obligation to provide an ID. If that logic is wrong, then that contradicts what I hear department after department say on "Live PD" every week.


If the man had been stopped and detained for a valid reason, then my understanding is the police can detain while working to verify the identity of the person and refusal to provide ID does allow for them to be cuffed while they figure it out.

These jokers make all cops look bad.
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Old April 08, 2020, 11:05   #9
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
The police had no valid reason to initiate contact with the man, so he had no legal obligation to provide an ID. If that logic is wrong, then that contradicts what I hear department after department say on "Live PD" every week.


If the man had been stopped and detained for a valid reason, then my understanding is the police can detain while working to verify the identity of the person and refusal to provide ID does allow for them to be cuffed while they figure it out.

These jokers make all cops look bad.
Depends on the state. Some states are a required to ID state.

Terry vrs Ohio is federal, applies nationally. No ability to articulate specific facts? No PC for a Terry stop (non consensual contact) and detention. Generalized suspicion does not qualify as specifically called out in Terry vrs Ohio. Specific articulable facts only.

In Tx? Not required to ID unless or until lawfully arrested, not required to ID due to being detained, including detention as a witness. You cannot detain someone in this state simply to ID them. Detention has to comply with Terry vrs Ohio for PC.
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Old April 08, 2020, 11:39   #10
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Our PD chief attends our bi-weekly staff meetings. His report this week was domestic violence calls are up 100%. Also calls about suspicious people/vehicles in neighborhoods have increased. Disturbances downtown have gone down considerably since the bars are closed.
Be well
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Old April 08, 2020, 13:03   #11
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Originally Posted by Wil-C View Post
Depends on the state. Some states are a required to ID state.

Terry vrs Ohio is federal, applies nationally. No ability to articulate specific facts? No PC for a Terry stop (non consensual contact) and detention. Generalized suspicion does not qualify as specifically called out in Terry vrs Ohio. Specific articulable facts only.

In Tx? Not required to ID unless or until lawfully arrested, not required to ID due to being detained, including detention as a witness. You cannot detain someone in this state simply to ID them. Detention has to comply with Terry vrs Ohio for PC.
Almost right. You know enough to get you in trouble.

While Terry v Ohio was decided at the Supreme Court and thus can be reasonably said to have validity throughout the US, states are free to adopt more restrictive laws or decisions for their jurisdictions if they so choose. For example, while the SCOTUS ruled there was a 'bright line" exception to the requirement to obtain a warrant under the 4th Amendment for the search of a vehicle, in NM, I need to obtain a warrant for any kind of non-consensual vehicle search per our state legislature and court decisions.

So, while it may have been a 'Terry' stop which would require some kind of reasonable suspicion of criminal activity being afoot, the controlling case law is actually Hiibel v Nevada. This requires, where the state is a 'stop and identify' state, for the person to provide some form of identification or sufficient information to allow them to be identified or be subject to arrest. Colorado is a 'stop and identify' state.

No one is being stopped for any 'social distancing' bullshit by our local agencies nor by State Police either. As it should be. However, the number of rat bastards calling in trying to report same is off the charts. If I ever had any doubts about the possibility of the establishment of a police state in Amerika, (intentional spelling) these assholes calling on to rat out their neighbors and kids have eliminated it. Come the revolution to take back this nation from the PC turds, liberals etc, these rat bastards should be the first against the wall...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel...ourt_of_Nevada

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_a...ntify_statutes
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Old April 08, 2020, 13:46   #12
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....... If I ever had any doubts about the possibility of the establishment of a police state in Amerika, (intentional spelling) these assholes calling on to rat out their neighbors and kids have eliminated it. ....
Yup.

All that the geheime staatspolizei had to do was answer the phone.


................
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Old April 08, 2020, 13:54   #13
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Originally Posted by the gman View Post
...
If I ever had any doubts about the possibility of the establishment of a police state in Amerika, (intentional spelling) these assholes calling on to rat out their neighbors and kids have eliminated it. Come the revolution to take back this nation from the PC turds, liberals etc, these rat bastards should be the first against the wall...
About sums it up...

Forrest
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Old April 08, 2020, 14:22   #14
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Staggering how sensational reporting, can be so damaging! Equalling appalling is how so many people lose their minds! - under current circumstances, more so! But level heads are prevailing, and there will always be a few Jackasses, that have to be carried around, and put back in the stable!!!
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Old April 08, 2020, 19:26   #15
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Even dumber:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/malibu-pa...-at-home-order
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Old April 08, 2020, 20:03   #16
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Originally Posted by the gman View Post
Almost right. You know enough to get you in trouble.

While Terry v Ohio was decided at the Supreme Court and thus can be reasonably said to have validity throughout the US, states are free to adopt more restrictive laws or decisions for their jurisdictions if they so choose. For example, while the SCOTUS ruled there was a 'bright line" exception to the requirement to obtain a warrant under the 4th Amendment for the search of a vehicle, in NM, I need to obtain a warrant for any kind of non-consensual vehicle search per our state legislature and court decisions.

So, while it may have been a 'Terry' stop which would require some kind of reasonable suspicion of criminal activity being afoot, the controlling case law is actually Hiibel v Nevada. This requires, where the state is a 'stop and identify' state, for the person to provide some form of identification or sufficient information to allow them to be identified or be subject to arrest. Colorado is a 'stop and identify' state.

No one is being stopped for any 'social distancing' bullshit by our local agencies nor by State Police either. As it should be. However, the number of rat bastards calling in trying to report same is off the charts. If I ever had any doubts about the possibility of the establishment of a police state in Amerika, (intentional spelling) these assholes calling on to rat out their neighbors and kids have eliminated it. Come the revolution to take back this nation from the PC turds, liberals etc, these rat bastards should be the first against the wall...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel...ourt_of_Nevada

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_a...ntify_statutes
The issue in this matter was whether it was reasonable for the Officers to think a crime was being committed
lacking that, he was under no mandate to identify

I doubt tossing ball in a park with daughter gives LE leeway to demand ID
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Old April 08, 2020, 23:12   #17
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The issue in this matter was whether it was reasonable for the Officers to think a crime was being committed
lacking that, he was under no mandate to identify

I doubt tossing ball in a park with daughter gives LE leeway to demand ID
I don't think so either. Had dispatch call my trainee and I because a neighbor (who didn't want to be contacted) had called in about kids in her neighborhood who were playing outside and weren't keeping more than 6 feet apart. Best part is the caller stated the kids all lived in the same house...

Told my rookie "fcuk that call, tell dispatch to close it out and we're NOT responding." He almost said it word for word too... WTF is wrong with people???
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Old April 09, 2020, 00:09   #18
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WTF???

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Originally Posted by SWOHFAL View Post
Have been looking at the surf cams the last few days, and what do I behold? See below:



That's Malibu Point with a decent swell running this morning and NOBODY OUT!!! They've all been chased away by the local gendarmes. A day like today would normally run maybe 60-80 guys in the water, many of them dweebs, but that's another story (and also irksome to me now that in my day in the '60s, it was more like 120 competitors in the first point feeding frenzy).

Where's Miki Dora when you need him? (Yeah, I know, he's gone to join Dewey Weber and Butch Van Artsdalen at that great open bar in the sky, but I'm sure he'd risk getting popped for appropriately mooning the Polizei were he still at the 'Bu.)
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Old April 09, 2020, 00:10   #19
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Originally Posted by the gman View Post
I don't think so either. Had dispatch call my trainee and I because a neighbor (who didn't want to be contacted) had called in about kids in her neighborhood who were playing outside and weren't keeping more than 6 feet apart. Best part is the caller stated the kids all lived in the same house...

Told my rookie "fcuk that call, tell dispatch to close it out and we're NOT responding." He almost said it word for word too... WTF is wrong with people???
yeah I don't doubt it one bit gman

and you nailed it
mostly it's the karens pulling the loony lever over non crimes
Guys like you get it, sadly though there are no shortage of clowns looking to justify the paycheck responding to ridiculous reports

The thing folks need to pay attention to is how brief of time it took for insanity to become the new normal & I have my personal doubts we can put it back in the box again.

Read a report earlier from the National Resturant Association that estimates America will lose up to 75% of resturants over all this mostly over reaction, something I warned of in other threads

apparently that assclown Governor in NJ ordered you have to wear facemasks to go to grocery stores now
its all a madhouse scramble to see who can be more draconian and where the public has enough and pushes back against it

I'm sure glad I went rural
Have the DV calls jumped in your AO ?
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Old April 09, 2020, 11:40   #20
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Originally Posted by the gman View Post
Almost right. You know enough to get you in trouble.
I know enough to protect myself from untrustworthy cops like yourself who will twist the truth into a lie via verbal judo, or attempt to wrongfully escalate things via provoking people such as you attempted here for the third time in a row.

First thing you do, again, is attempt to escalate the situation to try to get a reaction out of me with the emojis, deliberately provoke people to have a pretext to escalate the situation.

Either try to escalate the situation or resort to the lies of verbal judo, this is the third time you've done the same exact thing.

Standard behavior for untrustworthy cops like yourself.

again you prove yourself untrustworthy which is why sans warrant, NEVER OPEN THE DOOR FOR AN UNTRUSTWORTHY COP LIKE YOU.
In addition to that, NEVER ID YOURSELF TO AN UNTRUSTWORTHY COP LIKE YOU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the gman View Post
While Terry v Ohio was decided at the Supreme Court and thus can be reasonably said to have validity throughout the US, states are free to adopt more restrictive laws or decisions for their jurisdictions if they so choose. For example, while the SCOTUS ruled there was a 'bright line" exception to the requirement to obtain a warrant under the 4th Amendment for the search of a vehicle, in NM, I need to obtain a warrant for any kind of non-consensual vehicle search per our state legislature and court decisions.

So, while it may have been a 'Terry' stop which would require some kind of reasonable suspicion of criminal activity being afoot, the controlling case law is actually Hiibel v Nevada. This requires, where the state is a 'stop and identify' state, for the person to provide some form of identification or sufficient information to allow them to be identified or be subject to arrest. Colorado is a 'stop and identify' state.
Terry vrs Ohio is case law, and applies nationwide as does miranda. Again, you twist a lie to appear as truth.
Hibel vrs Nevada does not apply unless or until Terry vrs Ohio requirements are fullfilled, a fact you deliberately hid here.
Once a legitimate basis for a Terry stop is fullfilled, then require-to-ID states can lawfully demand ID, not until a legitimate lawful basis for a Terry stop has been established.
Neither does your lie of an example of a traffic stop prove you to be honest.
A traffic stop occurs because a crime (traffic violation) has already been established to have happened. In addition to an activity which required possession of licensed ID to engage in to begin with, the requirements for Terry vrs Ohio have already been met owing to the crime of a traffic violation being committed.
It is why a promise to appear is issued in lieu of arrest for a crime.

Again you twist a lie into the appearance of truth.
Again you resort to the lies of verbal judo.
Again, you prove yourself untrustworthy. Which is why sans warrant, never open the door or ID oneself to an untrustworthy cop like yourself...


Quote:
Originally Posted by the gman View Post
No one is being stopped for any 'social distancing' bullshit by our local agencies nor by State Police either. As it should be. However, the number of rat bastards calling in trying to report same is off the charts. If I ever had any doubts about the possibility of the establishment of a police state in Amerika, (intentional spelling) these assholes calling on to rat out their neighbors and kids have eliminated it. Come the revolution to take back this nation from the PC turds, liberals etc, these rat bastards should be the first against the wall...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel...ourt_of_Nevada

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_a...ntify_statutes
Again you resort to the lies of verbal judo by writing this. Std procedure, appear trustworthy via offering empathy. Std procedure for interrogation or otherwise getting people to foolishly trust you.

You can, and have, fooled many people including a lot of people on this forum with your lies of verbal judo. Given you engage in this behavior on a regular basis here, it is a logical conclusion this is how you treat an unwary public.

Unfortunately for your ass, I am not one of those people.

It is why it should be said: sans warrant, never open the door for an untrustworthy cop like yourself and never ID oneself to an untrustworthy cop and individual like yourself.

You are a perfect example of what has gone so badly wrong with LE and the current state of untrustworthiness which is so prevalent within LE nowadays.
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Old April 09, 2020, 12:35   #21
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Originally Posted by Wil-C View Post
I know enough to protect myself from untrustworthy cops like yourself who will twist the truth into a lie via verbal judo, or attempt to wrongfully escalate things via provoking people such as you attempted here for the third time in a row.

First thing you do, again, is attempt to escalate the situation to try to get a reaction out of me with the emojis, deliberately provoke people to have a pretext to escalate the situation.

Either try to escalate the situation or resort to the lies of verbal judo, this is the third time you've done the same exact thing.

Standard behavior for untrustworthy cops like yourself.

again you prove yourself untrustworthy which is why sans warrant, NEVER OPEN THE DOOR FOR AN UNTRUSTWORTHY COP LIKE YOU.
In addition to that, NEVER ID YOURSELF TO AN UNTRUSTWORTHY COP LIKE YOU.



Terry vrs Ohio is case law, and applies nationwide as does miranda. Again, you twist a lie to appear as truth.
Hibel vrs Nevada does not apply unless or until Terry vrs Ohio requirements are fullfilled, a fact you deliberately hid here.
Once a legitimate basis for a Terry stop is fullfilled, then require-to-ID states can lawfully demand ID, not until a legitimate lawful basis for a Terry stop has been established.
Neither does your lie of an example of a traffic stop prove you to be honest.
A traffic stop occurs because a crime (traffic violation) has already been established to have happened. In addition to an activity which required possession of licensed ID to engage in to begin with, the requirements for Terry vrs Ohio have already been met owing to the crime of a traffic violation being committed.
It is why a promise to appear is issued in lieu of arrest for a crime.

Again you twist a lie into the appearance of truth.
Again you resort to the lies of verbal judo.
Again, you prove yourself untrustworthy. Which is why sans warrant, never open the door or ID oneself to an untrustworthy cop like yourself...




Again you resort to the lies of verbal judo by writing this. Std procedure, appear trustworthy via offering empathy. Std procedure for interrogation or otherwise getting people to foolishly trust you.

You can, and have, fooled many people including a lot of people on this forum with your lies of verbal judo. Given you engage in this behavior on a regular basis here, it is a logical conclusion this is how you treat an unwary public.

Unfortunately for your ass, I am not one of those people.

It is why it should be said: sans warrant, never open the door for an untrustworthy cop like yourself and never ID oneself to an untrustworthy cop and individual like yourself.

You are a perfect example of what has gone so badly wrong with LE and the current state of untrustworthiness which is so prevalent within LE nowadays.
That's extremely hard speech friend
while gman and I have some severe differences of opinion I'd never ever cite him as an untrustworthy member of law enforcement
I see him as one of the rather decent guys

Verbal Judo
yeah and I use it too
so what ?
you just have to be clever enough to know what's what
they used to teach all this in High School Speech classes, I took state meets a few times way back when in Debate...professional Peckerwood I am
I'm no member of Law Enforcement either

Verbal Judo is applied all over Will
Car Dealerships, Bank loan officers, Realitors, Lawyers, etc
Cops generally get a very basic training in all that but really lack any natural skills to run with it in any other career choice
it's kinda' the perp sez this, you counter with that as the majority of people lack any Speech skillz. Once you run them all they can do is repeat their canned assed shit
that frustrates them as they were told these gimmicks really work
they do on the majority, most have rather poor communication skill sets

jus' say'n don't be that guy or gal
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Old April 09, 2020, 13:16   #22
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Not sure what triggered the police to approach him in the first place since he and his family were following the rules. Sounds like an overreaction by the police. But with that said, I was raised to respect the police, so if asked, I show ID.
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Old April 09, 2020, 14:21   #23
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I know enough to protect myself from untrustworthy cops like yourself who will twist the truth into a lie via verbal judo, or attempt to wrongfully escalate things via provoking people such as you attempted here for the third time in a row.

First thing you do, again, is attempt to escalate the situation to try to get a reaction out of me with the emojis, deliberately provoke people to have a pretext to escalate the situation.

Either try to escalate the situation or resort to the lies of verbal judo, this is the third time you've done the same exact thing.

Standard behavior for untrustworthy cops like yourself.

again you prove yourself untrustworthy which is why sans warrant, NEVER OPEN THE DOOR FOR AN UNTRUSTWORTHY COP LIKE YOU.
In addition to that, NEVER ID YOURSELF TO AN UNTRUSTWORTHY COP LIKE YOU.



Terry vrs Ohio is case law, and applies nationwide as does miranda. Again, you twist a lie to appear as truth.
Hibel vrs Nevada does not apply unless or until Terry vrs Ohio requirements are fullfilled, a fact you deliberately hid here.
Once a legitimate basis for a Terry stop is fullfilled, then require-to-ID states can lawfully demand ID, not until a legitimate lawful basis for a Terry stop has been established.
Neither does your lie of an example of a traffic stop prove you to be honest.
A traffic stop occurs because a crime (traffic violation) has already been established to have happened. In addition to an activity which required possession of licensed ID to engage in to begin with, the requirements for Terry vrs Ohio have already been met owing to the crime of a traffic violation being committed.
It is why a promise to appear is issued in lieu of arrest for a crime.

Again you twist a lie into the appearance of truth.
Again you resort to the lies of verbal judo.
Again, you prove yourself untrustworthy. Which is why sans warrant, never open the door or ID oneself to an untrustworthy cop like yourself...




Again you resort to the lies of verbal judo by writing this. Std procedure, appear trustworthy via offering empathy. Std procedure for interrogation or otherwise getting people to foolishly trust you.

You can, and have, fooled many people including a lot of people on this forum with your lies of verbal judo. Given you engage in this behavior on a regular basis here, it is a logical conclusion this is how you treat an unwary public.

Unfortunately for your ass, I am not one of those people.

It is why it should be said: sans warrant, never open the door for an untrustworthy cop like yourself and never ID oneself to an untrustworthy cop and individual like yourself.

You are a perfect example of what has gone so badly wrong with LE and the current state of untrustworthiness which is so prevalent within LE nowadays.
Whatever. You choose to believe whatever it is you choose to. There are plenty of case law examples, decided by SCOTUS, that either State or local agencies have decided by policy or legislation, that they will not adhere to. The agency I used to work for had an absolute prohibition on cooperating with ICE due to POLICY from the Chief. Nothing in Federal, State or local law prohibited it but the Chief said no dice. Equally, as I explained, NM has chosen to place more restrictive rules on LE than the SCOTUS has allowed by case law such as Carroll v United States and others since then. These are simple facts, not deceptive practices.

Equally, although 'case law' under Whren v. United States allows pre-textual stops, NM has barred that application of case law via State v. Ochoa. Ergo, pre-textual stops, while approved by SCOTUS, are prohibited in NM where I work. I can do this all day bub, its my area of expertise and one where clearly, your biases are interfering with your comprehension of the law. I do NOT make the law; I have to work within it to ensure the safety of others and to ensure their rights under the US Constitution, NM State Constitution and my agency's policies are protected. That might not fit your narrative but frankly, I don't GAF about you and your bias.


Nothing in what I wrote was intended to be deceptive but that you read it that way speaks volumes about who you are. Don't know you, don't care to know you and certainly wouldn't do business with you ever.

You're so twisted up you don't even know the meaning of Verbal Judo as taught by George Thompson. The idea is to diffuse conflict, speak effectively, listen to what people have to say by using active listening, engage them and gain compliance without using force to do so. How you got what I said to be deceptive is beyond me but then, even after all these years, I'm not well versed in conspiracy theorists, paranoid bullshit.
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Old April 09, 2020, 16:15   #24
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I may not always agree with GMan, but I at least respect he shares his opinion on this stuff in what I believe is an honest way.

I come down hard on this kind of stuff with cops because I really, really despise bullies, which is what a lot of these cases smell of...bullying, abuse of authority, etc. It really sets me off.

Overall though I do have a ton of respect for Peace officers, and will continue to treat them respectfully when I encounter them. Generally speaking, there's zero to be gained by being a dick to a cop, whether the cop is in the right or the wrong.
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Old April 09, 2020, 17:09   #25
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Not sure what triggered the police to approach him in the first place since he and his family were following the rules. Sounds like an overreaction by the police. But with that said, I was raised to respect the police, so if asked, I show ID.
and guys like you will let them rape your wife or daughter in front of you too won't you.

See RSU you have a serf mentality.
400 years ago you were the guy that allowed other men to use the wife & daughters. Stood fast as the boy children were cut with a sword or murdered
you have Slave blood & genetics...weak people needing Masters and through them direction

Most of my ancestors were serious assholes, made guys like you our bitch and your families too
it's all basic Genetics RSU
you are wired to slavery, your ancestors knew nothing else
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Old April 09, 2020, 17:22   #26
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Dude I gotta say, it's a big leap from being polite to letting cops rape your children.

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Old April 09, 2020, 18:01   #27
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Say what makes you feel good on the internet rss.....but people that want respect offer respect. I'll continue to be polite to the police.
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Old April 09, 2020, 18:57   #28
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I also can't stand bullies. Using the badge and position to advance a narrative of "you must do what we tell you" is wrong. Cops have NO business enforcing these bullshit social distancing/curfew/close businesses and other unconstitutional shit the politicians are coming out with. I'm just glad my Sheriff has stated we don't and won't have any part of that crap.

Yes, respect goes both ways. I, however, have the responsibility to try to be the bigger person on scene if someone is hollering and being disrespectful to me or others. A few weeks ago, my previous rookie ran a plate and found the vehicle had no insurance so we stopped it. Driver was Native American and the registration was suspended for no insurance as was his driver's license. He was flat out a flaming dick, accusing us of being like "Nazi's except instead of hunting Jews, you guys are hunting Navajo's" and much, more like that. He got citations for the infractions and left, vowing to fight the tickets and telling us what he thought of us.

Fast forward to last week when we had court. I ran his details, found out he got insurance, got the registration and his license reinstated so he was completely legal. Court was conducted via telephone due to the Coronavirus but my guy didn't call in. Now, I could have easily gotten a warrant for his arrest for failing to show up to court and part of me did want to because he had been a flaming asshole to my female rookie and I. However, that wasn't the right thing to do so I just went ahead and dismissed his citations. How would punishing him with fines for things he had already fixed help him or me or anyone? Our Democrat Governor doesn't need any more money from the citizens and my agency doesn't get a penny from any fines so what's the point? Especially when lots of people aren't working and are hurting for money.

I hammer the rookies I teach that our ultimate goal is voluntary compliance with the law. I'm not a judge or a politician, I just get to control my little piece of this thing we call justice. Hey, if that guy lets his insurance lapse again, hopefully he won't hit anyone before getting it current. I can pretty much guarantee giving him a $300 fine for no insurance is gonna hurt him financially and may be the money he set aside for insurance so now he really can't afford it. Sorry for the ramble.
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Old April 09, 2020, 19:00   #29
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and guys like you will let them rape your wife or daughter in front of you too won't you.
... did that just happen?

Wow.
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Old April 09, 2020, 19:19   #30
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Not sure what triggered the police to approach him in the first place since he and his family were following the rules. Sounds like an overreaction by the police. But with that said, I was raised to respect the police, so if asked, I show ID.
The truth is, we don't know what transpired beforehand, or what prompted to police officer to ask for ID. The officer may have been out of line. The officer may not have been. We don't know.

In regard to adults with little kids... sometimes fathers take off with kids when parents split. Sometimes moms take off with kids when parents split. Sometimes bad people take off with YOUR kids. Something may have triggered the officer's decision to ask for ID. A rational adult and parent, out in the public with their children, would not have made a scene over such a mundane request.

As a parent with little kids, if an officer even asked for my ID I would provide it. I'd be thankful that he took the time to do so... it is an uncomfortable request, and even more uncomfortable to ask additional questions to ensure that the kid belonged there.

I deal with a lot of commercial drivers (truckers ect.). Sometimes they have their kids with them, traveling cross country ect. I ask additional questions to ensure that the kid belongs with the driver. Asking such questions is uncomfortable. Sometimes the driver gets shitty with me. That is fine. After I explain that I have found one toddler who was basically kidnapped by his sex offender father, and two run-way underage girls that were sex-trafficked, the drivers get the picture. Then there are other times that the kid belongs to the driver, and it seems apparent that the kid is being neglected and/or abused, yet often find that we have little power to do anything about, and don't sleep at night as result.
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Old April 09, 2020, 19:28   #31
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I may not always agree with GMan, but I at least respect he shares his opinion on this stuff in what I believe is an honest way.

I come down hard on this kind of stuff with cops because I really, really despise bullies, which is what a lot of these cases smell of...bullying, abuse of authority, etc. It really sets me off.

Overall though I do have a ton of respect for Peace officers, and will continue to treat them respectfully when I encounter them. Generally speaking, there's zero to be gained by being a dick to a cop, whether the cop is in the right or the wrong.

+1
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Old April 09, 2020, 22:00   #32
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The truth is, we don't know what transpired beforehand, or what prompted to police officer to ask for ID. The officer may have been out of line. The officer may not have been. We don't know.

In regard to adults with little kids... sometimes fathers take off with kids when parents split. Sometimes moms take off with kids when parents split. Sometimes bad people take off with YOUR kids. Something may have triggered the officer's decision to ask for ID. A rational adult and parent, out in the public with their children, would not have made a scene over such a mundane request.

As a parent with little kids, if an officer even asked for my ID I would provide it. I'd be thankful that he took the time to do so... it is an uncomfortable request, and even more uncomfortable to ask additional questions to ensure that the kid belonged there.

I deal with a lot of commercial drivers (truckers ect.). Sometimes they have their kids with them, traveling cross country ect. I ask additional questions to ensure that the kid belongs with the driver. Asking such questions is uncomfortable. Sometimes the driver gets shitty with me. That is fine. After I explain that I have found one toddler who was basically kidnapped by his sex offender father, and two run-way underage girls that were sex-trafficked, the drivers get the picture. Then there are other times that the kid belongs to the driver, and it seems apparent that the kid is being neglected and/or abused, yet often find that we have little power to do anything about, and don't sleep at night as result.
and I get all that
still going boot jack on a mom and dad in a park ?
give that excuse line about kidnapping up
it's situational and yes, in a moving vehicle as LE a citizen MUST surrender ID
that don't apply in this case Mr. Primary Pigger
I can lawfully tell you to beat feet

I rail every so often regarding lowest common denominator law.
The mindset that you embrace is that because maybe one out of ten thousand times something bad may be going down you need absolute authority to fuk with anybody you want to under the color of your law

that's straight JBT shit
try it with me, your jurisdiction will be idiot taxed in the form of a law suit or at least your removal as an Officer. Yeah, I'm that guy. Been doing it since the 80s but never to real green guys. I am into making examples out of seasoned dickheads & I enjoy stripping authority, reducing assholes to mall security at best

So NO, I won't easily submit to your insanity, what if shit
Does what if grant you authority to boot my door in without Warrant ?
Hell No
you to do that need crime, some PC
short of that, you can do a welfare check asshole as long as you remain outside the curtilage of the residence. No Window peeking you peeping prick
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Old April 09, 2020, 22:25   #33
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Say what makes you feel good on the internet rss.....but people that want respect offer respect. I'll continue to be polite to the police.
people that want respect

man you are a total mindbender at times RSU

I am always polite to police
until...wait for it
they turn full JBT pigger

you would likely thank anyone in uniform for forcing you up a ramp into a Cattle Car
just your nature serf
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Old April 09, 2020, 22:43   #34
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I may not always agree with GMan, but I at least respect he shares his opinion on this stuff in what I believe is an honest way.
.
my opinion as well, and as noted this is state-specific, or in some cases behaviour-specific.

that being said, some cops are heavy. when open carry became a thing in PA some departments paid big because Atty Gen Corbett had already ruled that open carry in and of itself was not cause for any more than "casual interaction" and this was even in the recent MPOTEC trainings.
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Old April 09, 2020, 23:06   #35
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That's extremely hard speech friend
while gman and I have some severe differences of opinion I'd never ever cite him as an untrustworthy member of law enforcement
I see him as one of the rather decent guys

Verbal Judo
yeah and I use it too
so what ?
you just have to be clever enough to know what's what
they used to teach all this in High School Speech classes, I took state meets a few times way back when in Debate...professional Peckerwood I am
I'm no member of Law Enforcement either

Verbal Judo is applied all over Will
Car Dealerships, Bank loan officers, Realitors, Lawyers, etc
Cops generally get a very basic training in all that but really lack any natural skills to run with it in any other career choice
it's kinda' the perp sez this, you counter with that as the majority of people lack any Speech skillz. Once you run them all they can do is repeat their canned assed shit
that frustrates them as they were told these gimmicks really work
they do on the majority, most have rather poor communication skill sets

jus' say'n don't be that guy or gal
the truth is the harshest thing of all when it comes to dishonest behavior such as Gman demonstrates.

And if he is your idea of an honest cop or one of the decent ones, you have chosen poorly.

no surprise either given you just spent an entire post justifying such behavior.
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Old April 10, 2020, 00:57   #36
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people that want respect

man you are a total mindbender at times RSU

I am always polite to police
until...wait for it
they turn full JBT pigger

you would likely thank anyone in uniform for forcing you up a ramp into a Cattle Car
just your nature serf
So have you ever been to Houston? How did you like it? Want to come back over for a visit?
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Old April 10, 2020, 17:48   #37
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Cops apologize, admit they were wrong:

https://ourcommunitynow.com/news-nat...-with-daughter

I wouldn't want their apology, but they can get me some cold hard cash for fcuking me around and arresting me in front of my kid with no PC. Start putting zeroes on the check, I'll tell you when its enough...
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Old April 11, 2020, 06:33   #38
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Well,

Sounds like the acting City Manager can read which way the wind blows. Its a shame taxes have to go up when cops screw up and a department get sued. There has to be a better way, like hit the Police pension system or hit the officers pay.

I used to issue UCMJ and would suspend punishment upon proof of improved performance. There simply has to be a better way.

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Old April 11, 2020, 08:08   #39
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Well,

Sounds like the acting City Manager can read which way the wind blows. Its a shame taxes have to go up when cops screw up and a department get sued. There has to be a better way, like hit the Police pension system or hit the officers pay.

I used to issue UCMJ and would suspend punishment upon proof of improved performance. There simply has to be a better way.

Thorack
I don't like suing agencies
all you are actually doing is taxing Taxpayers

Individual Officers who go way stupid need to be taxed individually.
so a rebel badge rapes
in some States he can be sued by the victim, in others...protected particularly for on duty misconduct.
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Old April 11, 2020, 10:23   #40
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So have you ever been to Houston? How did you like it? Want to come back over for a visit?
Whoa...
kinda missed this shit show of utter Assery

yeah been there a few times
was a great place years ago, now packed with black Progressive wimmin Voters

Ever been really up North ?
I mean in season
many folks here would not make it through a single night in a tent

so that veiled threat you offered
punk shit
you will die up here of natural things RSU
just what it is and always will be with weaker folks on climate
do carry on...
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Old April 11, 2020, 14:34   #41
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Whoa...
kinda missed this shit show of utter Assery

yeah been there a few times
was a great place years ago, now packed with black Progressive wimmin Voters

Ever been really up North ?
I mean in season
many folks here would not make it through a single night in a tent

so that veiled threat you offered
punk shit
you will die up here of natural things RSU
just what it is and always will be with weaker folks on climate
do carry on...
Nobody gives a shit what you think. You are a simply a horrible excuse for a human being.

I'd throw some kind of insults your way, but it isn't necessary. Based upon your banter and hypocritical correspondence, I'd wager that you already lead an empty and dark life, and internally question and hate yourself as a human being, regardless of any material accomplishments. You won't admit it. You'll make excuses about it. You will retort with excuses and verbal attacks. All expected, as they are expected from an ugly and hateful person such as yourself.
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Old April 11, 2020, 18:49   #42
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No, you and your type are the embarrassment to the history of this Nation

you stated it plainly indeed
You don't give one solitary Damn' if your piggers were in the total wrong
like most any Karen you want your piggers respected don't you !

Richard indicated the pigger position was a refusal to present papers
some States require that, not many
don't know if Colorado is one
generally speaking piggers get kunt hurt when a citizen properly tells them to go fuk themselves when they play on some Judge Dread routine
have had two fired over the years over stupid shit like that
it was that or lawsuit

now I have great respect for real LE
porkers porking with a citizen tossing ball in a park with daughter ?
and here you are defending all that Martial Law mentality...sheesh Karen
what are you, a Bloomberg type ?

seems so
some folks are just pussies. You have to send a message to the Nazi types that they lost before, it can happen again.
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Old April 11, 2020, 18:57   #43
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30or so yrs ago I got cuffed and stuffed for spinning my tires and drinking. Had to blow down at HQ. I was .08 and the limit was .10. Got a ticket for reckless driving due to my baby burnout going around a corner and then had it dismissed as well. Just had to speak with the chief to make sure I hadn't called the cop the N word. I think he heard it in the 2nd person and not in the 1st when I was talking to my father on the phone. Wasn't calling to get my ole man to bail me out. Just making sure I didn't let them tow my car while I was on my way to HQ. I had already finished the joint and threw the roach out 20 minutes before. Owned a house and paid taxes at that age with a wife and a kid. Like my father said "when your out messing around, don't be conspicuous" I sure miss my old hot rod 76 Grand Prix once in awhile and my old man.
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Old April 11, 2020, 20:33   #44
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Like my father said "when your out messing around, don't be conspicuous"
Pretty much...

My fun toy is an '85 C10 with a mildly modded 6.0 LS drivetrain underneath ... roughly 425ish HP to the rear wheels in an old pick-up gives warm fuzzies!

I would argue the best bet is not to do anything stupid enough to land you in jail while enjoying your ride, and roll with the warning or civil infraction ticket for chirping your tires instead.

#1. Some people choose to smoke their tires. #2. Some people choose to smoke their fatties... Most people who do both quickly lose the resources to do #1.

I often reflect back to when a "piggie" told me, "walk to the party, you can look through the woods and find your keys tomorrow." I had just graduated high school (while being on my own since 16 years old) and was shipping off to basic training a couple days after the fact. That airplane ticket paid for by Uncle Sugar was my out from the shit-hole situation I was living in. That "piggie" could have CRUSHED my world, and could have righteously. I had zero intention of becoming a "piggie" myself, but as life unfolded, that experience brought me to where I am now.
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Old April 11, 2020, 21:01   #45
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Pretty much...

My fun toy is an '85 C10 with a mildly modded 6.0 LS drivetrain underneath ... roughly 425ish HP to the rear wheels in an old pick-up gives warm fuzzies!

I would argue the best bet is not to do anything stupid enough to land you in jail while enjoying your ride, and roll with the warning or civil infraction ticket for chirping your tires instead.

#1. Some people choose to smoke their tires. #2. Some people choose to smoke their fatties... Most people who do both quickly lose the resources to do #1.

I often reflect back to when a "piggie" told me, "walk to the party, you can look through the woods and find your keys tomorrow." I had just graduated high school (while being on my own since 16 years old) and was shipping off to basic training a couple days after the fact. That airplane ticket paid for by Uncle Sugar was my out from the shit-hole situation I was living in. That "piggie" could have CRUSHED my world, and could have righteously. I had zero intention of becoming a "piggie" myself, but as life unfolded, that experience brought me to where I am now.
LJ you sound pretty cool. I don't hate cops. I just don't want them to have a reason to mess with me. Cops have changed much since I was a kid. We had some great drivers ed stuff and driving simulators brought to screwl for summer. It's just so damn different now.

Texas has city cops, constables, county sheriffs, feds, and the troopers making sure you don't get out of line. But you can flop out in Austin for free
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Old April 11, 2020, 21:07   #46
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Gman - I was under the impression that unless you were doing something that requires a license, such as driving a car, you can't be required to carry ID. But - you need to give the police basic info "I'm Joe Citizen, I live on south Washington street and I'm out for a walk"

I'm contrary enough to not be willing to show my ID when asked if I'm just out walking - but verbally identify myself. Of course that could lead to unpleasantness.


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... the controlling case law is actually Hiibel v Nevada. This requires, where the state is a 'stop and identify' state, for the person to provide some form of identification or sufficient information to allow them to be identified or be subject to arrest. Colorado is a 'stop and identify' state.
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Old April 12, 2020, 01:44   #47
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Nobody gives a shit what you think. You are a simply a horrible excuse for a human being.

I'd throw some kind of insults your way, but it isn't necessary. Based upon your banter and hypocritical correspondence, I'd wager that you already lead an empty and dark life, and internally question and hate yourself as a human being, regardless of any material accomplishments. You won't admit it. You'll make excuses about it. You will retort with excuses and verbal attacks. All expected, as they are expected from an ugly and hateful person such as yourself.
Really ?

and you think anyone cares much about what you think LJ ?
I certainly don't

Michigan is chock full of junior level Stasi assholes with badges
you guys are just slightly less full of your assumed Authority than New Jersey & Massassholes both of which even dress like little Storm Troopers

dunno what's been hypocritical in our correspondence
I'll gleefully post up our PMs for public dissection
That badge gives you pretty limited authority
when you go beyond those limits I will push back and make it a learning experience for you and your greater agency

if that makes me ugly & hateful
well, I can live with that

so what's the deal
did the cool kids pick on you a lot growing up ?
many that seem to get into LE careers have a history of being bullied before they become bullies themselves
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Old April 12, 2020, 01:49   #48
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Gman - I was under the impression that unless you were doing something that requires a license, such as driving a car, you can't be required to carry ID. But - you need to give the police basic info "I'm Joe Citizen, I live on south Washington street and I'm out for a walk"

I'm contrary enough to not be willing to show my ID when asked if I'm just out walking - but verbally identify myself. Of course that could lead to unpleasantness.
again it depends on the State
even then in most an Officer has to have probable cause
they can't roll up on Joe Citizen and demand that they identify for just walking down the sidewalk
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Old April 12, 2020, 06:35   #49
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Really ?

and you think anyone cares much about what you think LJ ?
I certainly don't

Michigan is chock full of junior level Stasi assholes with badges
you guys are just slightly less full of your assumed Authority than New Jersey & Massassholes both of which even dress like little Storm Troopers

dunno what's been hypocritical in our correspondence
I'll gleefully post up our PMs for public dissection
That badge gives you pretty limited authority
when you go beyond those limits I will push back and make it a learning experience for you and your greater agency

if that makes me ugly & hateful
well, I can live with that

so what's the deal
did the cool kids pick on you a lot growing up ?
many that seem to get into LE careers have a history of being bullied before they become bullies themselves
Dang, you didn’t call me a homo, tell someone to suck a ***, and didn't make any racists comments! Strange. Must be Easter.

Good luck old man.
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Old April 12, 2020, 19:21   #50
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Gman - I was under the impression that unless you were doing something that requires a license, such as driving a car, you can't be required to carry ID. But - you need to give the police basic info "I'm Joe Citizen, I live on south Washington street and I'm out for a walk"

I'm contrary enough to not be willing to show my ID when asked if I'm just out walking - but verbally identify myself. Of course that could lead to unpleasantness.
Mike, the following applies when on foot rather than driving.

The 'stop and identify' rule ONLY comes into place if the police have you lawfully detained. For a lawful detention to occur, they need reasonable suspicion a crime has occurred, is occurring or is about to occur. Reasonable suspicion is based upon specific, articulable facts to support the conclusion about unlawful activity. It cannot be based upon a gut feeling or a hunch but MUST be based upon facts. Unlike Riversidesports' assertion, I do NOT need probable cause to ID you but PC IS required to arrest you.

You also do NOT need to physically carry ID on you but must provide sufficient information to corroborate your identity if lawfully detained AND you live or are in a state which is a 'stop and identify' state.

During what is termed a "consensual contact," (you're just out walking, doing nothing wrong) you have no responsibility to ID yourself or even converse with LE in any way at all. A consensual contact is where the cop has no reasonable suspicion of a crime being afoot but is interested in speaking with you, usually but not always, to develop reasonable suspicion to lawfully detain you. Therefore, I would advise people to politely decline to speak with law enforcement unless they are feeling brave. Unfortunately, not all cops are decent, honorable, respectful or even of a mind to observe the rules and case law governing and restricting their conduct in regards to citizen contacts.

A simple "Sir/Madam, am I suspected a committing a crime? If so, am I being lawfully detained? If not, I respectfully do not wish to speak with you and would like to be on my way. Thank you." If the cop persists and won't let you leave, insist on a supervisor being called and request legal counsel. Politely request upon what basis the cop is detaining you but do not argue with them. Wait for the supervisor to arrive then speak with them. Never argue, do not get angry, record the interaction and request legal counsel.

Of course, all of the above presumes you are on foot, NOT in a vehicle.

If that isn't sufficiently clear, I will be glad to try to explain further. FYI, I offered up a list of stop and ID states in my first post.
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