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Old June 29, 2019, 16:27   #1
Steve in Allentown, PA
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Govt length mag in compact frame

I wanted to run standard CMI Government length eight round magazines in Officer's size frames so I bought a couple of their SBP Extended Bumper Pads which are used on their 10 round magazines to experiment with.



The next thing I did was disassemble a standard eight round mag, cover the bottom third of it with Dykem, lock it into an Officer's Model frame, and carefully use the bottom of the frame as a guide to mark its outline onto the magazine. Then I reassembled the mag and measured from the bottom of the mag pad up to the lines scribed into the Dykem and transferred those measurements to the new bumper pad.

After that it was a simple matter of cutting, filing, and sanding the polymer base pad until it allowed the eight round mag to seat into the Officer's frame. Now the eight round mags cannot be over-inserted, they run perfectly, and will be used as CCW spares on my belt.

Below are some pics of a Colt CCO that I tweaked a few years ago and one of my favorites for CCW (new sights, trigger, grip safety, slide stop). This first pic shows it with a standard, flush fit six round mag in place.




Here it is with a standard eight round mag fully seated. You can see the problem I was attempting to solve with my experiment. Over-insertion is definitely a concern here.




Finally, here it is with the same eight round mag seated but with my homemade bumper installed. A perfect fit, if I do say so myself. Problem solved.




Below are three magazines so you can see the differences. Standard flush fit six round, standard eight round extended tube with standard bumper pad, and standard eight round extended tube with homemade bumper pad.




Below is what the SBP Extended Bumper Pad looked like before and after my surgery on it.


Last edited by Steve in Allentown, PA; June 30, 2019 at 09:30.
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Old June 29, 2019, 17:14   #2
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Ok, but it looks like solution looking for a problem. with my Kimber ultra carry i just run CM's 8's with a bump that came with them.
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Old June 29, 2019, 18:10   #3
Steve in Allentown, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
Ok, but it looks like solution looking for a problem. with my Kimber ultra carry i just run CM's 8's with a bump that came with them.
Are you saying CM makes 8 round mags that fit compact frames?

FWIW, I won't run 8 rounds in a magazine tube that was designed to hold 7 because I fear spring stacking and premature spring failure, I prefer the Check-Mate 8 round, extended tube, hybrid feed lip mags (CM45-8-S-RB-EXT) above all others which is why I hit upon this simple modification.

To be perfectly clear, these mags will be carried on the belt as back ups to the 7 rounds already in the pistol. I find 8 round mags easier to handle and manipulate during reloads than 10 round mags or the 6 round flush fit mags designed for compact frames.
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Old June 29, 2019, 18:11   #4
Steve in Allentown, PA
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I left out one picture. Here's a pic of the Dykem applied to the first mag. If you look closely, you can see a thin white line where I scribed the outline of the frame onto the mag. That's an Ed Brown branded Check-Mate magazine.

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Old June 29, 2019, 18:24   #5
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I must be missing something important in this thread????

The mag catch/release is in the same place on a compact or a standard 1911.

Any and all 1911 mags will also fit in a compact.


PS - Springs wear out from repetitive cycling, not by continuous compression.
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Old June 29, 2019, 18:42   #6
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Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
I must be missing something important in this thread????

The mag catch/release is in the same place on a compact or a standard 1911.

Any and all 1911 mags will also fit in a compact.


PS - Springs wear out from repetitive cycling, not by continuous compression.
Sorta my thought too. Let it hang out if ya need another slug.
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Old June 29, 2019, 21:16   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
The mag catch/release is in the same place on a compact or a standard 1911. Any and all 1911 mags will also fit in a compact.
Yes, but . . . Under the stress of competition or combat inserting a new magazine into a slide locked pistol will be done, shall we say, vigorously. Unless there is a physical stop built into the magazine in the form of contact between the base pad and the bottom of the frame, the mag can rather easily be forced above the magazine catch which will solidly jam the mag inside the pistol and will prevent the slide from closing. I've seen this happen more than a few times.

Sure, on a square range you can insert a Government length mag into an Officer's Model with an open slide and be fine. But add some adrenaline to the mix and things can get real sporty real quick.

Quote:
PS - Springs wear out from repetitive cycling, not by continuous compression.
Fully agree but . . . Springs in which the coils are stacked solidly together forming a steel column experience much more force than a spring in which the coils are not solidly in contact with one another. Also, that solid steel column can act as a steel punch pushing against the follower and base plate that can cause part failure.

So, what if a fully loaded mag in which the spring is stacked solidly coil against coil is slammed into a 1911 with a closed slide? The base plate could fail and pop off dumping all the rounds onto the ground.

A not uncommon example of the problem of spring stacking is running too long a recoil spring in a 1911. Every time this recoil spring is compressed it forms a solid steel column before the slide travels fully to the rear. Eventually this will cause the barrel bushing to break since it is taking all the impact force of the slide stopping suddenly. The frame is designed to take all the impact force not the barrel bushing.

Last edited by Steve in Allentown, PA; June 30, 2019 at 09:16.
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Old June 30, 2019, 06:53   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown, PA View Post
Yes, but . . . Under the stress of competition or combat inserting a new magazine into a slide locked pistol will be done, shall we say, vigorously. Unless there is a physical stop built into the magazine in the form of contact between the base pad and the bottom of the frame, the mag can rather easily be forced above the magazine catch which will solidly jam the mag inside the pistol and will prevent the slide from closing. I've seen this happen more than a few times.
Yep, not a pistol but I had it happen to me with a Gen 2 MagPul AR magazine during a carbine class. I managed to stick that sucker in TIGHT. As in I was out of the fight. Lucky it was just a class. I must not have been the only one to have this issue, notice the stop molded on the back of the Gen 3 MagPuls.

I applaud the OPs creativity and execution of his mod for his needs. I too carry a "higher cap" magazine as backup to my CCW.
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Old June 30, 2019, 13:33   #9
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what i meant was that my back up mags a CM 8, a regular one is in the gun, i don't care what it looks like if i have to go to the back ups.
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Old June 30, 2019, 14:38   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
what i meant was that my back up mags a CM 8, a regular one is in the gun, i don't care what it looks like if i have to go to the back ups.
I get it now. I don't care what the back up mags look like either. I just don't want to run the pistol to slide lock then slam in a new mag and have it bung up the works by jumping the mag catch and turning my pistol into a throwing weapon.
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Old July 01, 2019, 09:13   #11
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Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown, PA View Post
I get it now. I don't care what the back up mags look like either. I just don't want to run the pistol to slide lock then slam in a new mag and have it bung up the works by jumping the mag catch and turning my pistol into a throwing weapon.
I think that's where you are going wrong. My experience is that the 1911 makes a pretty good club when empty. Like a knife, it's best to keep it in your hand for repeated usage.


Nice job on the mag btw.
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Old July 01, 2019, 10:36   #12
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I think that's where you are going wrong. My experience is that the 1911 makes a pretty good club when empty. Like a knife, it's best to keep it in your hand for repeated usage.
Ha! It's also comes in handy as a hammer sometimes as I discovered in the Army.
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Old July 01, 2019, 15:30   #13
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Ha! It's also comes in handy as a hammer sometimes as I discovered in the Army.
True there, but you got to look out for the new ones, some of 'em have plastic mainspring housings that won't drive cleaning rod sections worth a darn.
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Old July 01, 2019, 15:35   #14
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Ha! It's also comes in handy as a hammer sometimes as I discovered in the Army.
A few years back there was some hoop-la in the news about the army buying $700 hammers.

Now that makes perfect sense
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Old July 01, 2019, 16:24   #15
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A few years back there was some hoop-la in the news about the army buying $700 hammers.
Our .45s were multi-tools so Uncle Sugar was actually saving money.
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Old July 22, 2019, 07:38   #16
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Purchased the first Officers Model ever saw along with compacts from Detonics, Randall and many more. Have never had an issue slamming an unmodified eight or ten round magazine in one no matter what, even running them on IPSC or IDPA type courses where moving fast on my reloads. Does look nice but no matter which 1911 I put on belt the same ten round spares go on weak hand side of belt. It would be my luck to grab the modified mags in the dark then try to insert into a full size frame.
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Old July 22, 2019, 08:12   #17
Steve in Allentown, PA
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Have never had an issue slamming an unmodified eight or ten round magazine in one no matter what . . .
And I've seen it happen more than a few times during matches over the years. I simply prefer to not take the chance. My position is that if it can go wrong, it will go wrong.

Quote:
. . . no matter which 1911 I put on belt the same ten round spares go on weak hand side of belt.
You're well prepared. I can't handle 10 round mag changes as quickly or as surely as with 7 or 8 round mags.

Quote:
It would be my luck to grab the modified mags in the dark then try to insert into a full size frame.
Here's a real life story about that. Some years ago my wife and I were squaded together during an IDPA match. She had some trouble on one stage and asked me for another magazine so I snagged one out of the bag. On the next stage she did a reload and couldn't get a round to load because I'd inadvertently given her an Officer's mag. She still brings that up from time to time. I always respond that I did it on purpose so she wouldn't beat my score that day. I changed my ways after that incident and keep the mags in separate bags now.

You have the same philosophy that I do about if it can go wrong . . . Murphy's law.
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Old May 16, 2020, 16:08   #18
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I recently modified ten more base pads so I could have more 8 round mags that would correctly fit compact frames like Officers and CCO pistols.

Rather than measuring this time, I simply used one of the previously modified base pads to trace a line onto my next victim.




Cutting was faster using a sawzall blade by hand after first scribing along the line using a Dremel cut off wheel. The Dremel melted the plastic if held in place too long so I lightly cut a groove that would keep the sawzall blade lined up.



Here's a base pad with one side removed down to the scribe line. You can see the opposite side has been cut through also. All it needs now is a vertical cut to intersect the horizontal cut so that section can be removed. You can also see a cut at the front where the new front tab will be located.



Here are 10 base pads that have been "roughed in". At this point they've all been fit so that there is minimal clearance between all three contact areas on each of them them and the pistol frame. This is much stronger than just the single contact point at the cut out at the front of the frame common to all magazine manufacturers. You could pound a magazine into the frame with a ball peen hammer and these base pads would probably withstand the punishment much longer than any other method of preventing over-insertion.

It took lots of filing and sanding to get to this point. The finishing touch of polishing the cut surfaces comes next.



Here are two pistol cases loaded up with standard 6 round mags and 8 round mags with their new base pads. One case is for a CCO while the other is for an Officer's Model.
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