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Old September 03, 2019, 20:43   #51
W.E.G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
My guess is its way overgassed which the heavier buffer should help as it seems to be beating itself to pieces...

A three to five easily adjustable gas block should be on all non "budget" AR's. ..

While I know a heavier buffer will calm down an over gassed rifle I have one concern. What is happening to the bolt and carrier when hit by that initial over gassed blast from gas tube?

.....they are never going to see steel case Walmart ammo in my lifetime either.
I'll start with the last point first. Can't buy 5.56 at Walmart anymore as of today.

I may add an adjustable gas block. I'm not mad that this gun isn't as it should be from the git. I like tinkering with things. So, if I bugger something that didn't start out as anything special, no big deal. Keeps me amused. Some people like crossword puzzles. I like machines. In fact, I have an assortment of springs from soft to firm inbound from Springco. Also some bits to beef up the extractor. I'll add the springs to my tool kit so it will be easier to experiment and diagnose these cycling issues in the future.

On the issue of what happens with regard to the extra gas pressure, can we agree on one thing? That thing being this: The bullet has already left the barrel when the bolt unlocks. Agreed?

The moment during the event of firing when bolt and carrier have to endure the vast majority of pressure generated by the cartridge occurs when the bullet has only travelled an inch, and well before the bullet allows any pressure to bleed into the gas port. After that, the pressure in the barrel drops sharply. If the gas port is excessively large, I suppose there is some extra pressure in the gas tube, and some extra pressure in the key on the bolt carrier. But, that pressure is quite tame compared to the pressures the bolt has to contain each time the rifle is fired.

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Old September 03, 2019, 22:54   #52
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And I too like figuring out the puzzles that have a gremlin. Why have chrome silicon flatwire buffer springs, milspec and braided wire for different applications. I can tell your not upset but commenting on debugging a secondhand toy you picked up. I debug such rifles all the time and enjoy it actually, especially when swap a part on the range for some person who is totally confused and their little carbine starts chugging along. Why I carry a well stocked AR debugging kit when go to a public range.
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Old September 04, 2019, 19:04   #53
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Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
Because its second-hand... or third-hand

And I didn't bother to ask the seller where he got it.

Staking looks adequate - although I've seen heavier staking.

That looks fine. The ones I got were barely dimpled.
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Old September 04, 2019, 19:22   #54
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I bought this gun second-hand, do didn't give much thought to the details until I started playing with it and taking it apart.

Am I correct that this is a MID-LENGTH gas system?

You can sort of see the gas block in the pic. End of tape measure is at forward end of gas block. The interwebs tell me that a mid-length gas tube is 9".

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Old September 04, 2019, 20:01   #55
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If I'm seeing where the gas block is, that's a carbine length gas system...

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Old September 04, 2019, 21:17   #56
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As a guide, a bare (uninstalled) gas tube is this long:

Carbine - 10 inches
Mid-Length - just shy of 12 inches
Rifle - 15.5 inches

Normally, about an inch of the gas tube is inserted in the gas block.

Forrest

PS: And, of course, there are pistol length gas tubes shorter than all these...
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Old September 04, 2019, 21:32   #57
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I guess I'm officially confused now.

Google search for "ar15 mid length" produces this:



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Old September 04, 2019, 22:21   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
I guess I'm officially confused now.
Mostly misinformation on well defined dimensions you are finding on the webs. That is actually done on purpose so girls do not understand the difference between "carbine length" and "rifle length".

Let's keep it that way Gary. Don't fugg up a good thing bro
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Old September 04, 2019, 22:25   #59
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Don't forget that your gas tube has the hole above the gas port about an inch in from the front end of the gas tube and is pinned in the block to the front of that.

Then, the rear of the gas tube has to extend back into the upper receiver far enough to allow the gas key to close over it...

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Old September 04, 2019, 22:31   #60
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OK.

Fulton Armory lists the mid-length tube as 11 3/4"
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Old September 04, 2019, 23:10   #61
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OK.

Fulton Armory lists the mid-length tube as 11 3/4"
Yup...

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Old September 05, 2019, 07:36   #62
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Standard gas tube, length, AR15:

Pistol- 6.75"

Carbine- 9.75"

Mid Length- 11.75"

Rifle Length- 15.125"


ETA: I stand corrected, thanks Forrest!
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Old September 05, 2019, 09:17   #63
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Originally Posted by TenTea View Post
Standard gas tube, length, AR15:

Pistol- 6.75"

Carbine- 9.75"

Mid Length- 11.75"

Rifle Length- 12.124"
Carbine and Mid-Length, Yes...

Rifle, No...

The Rifle Length Gas Tube is 15.5 inches...

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Old September 05, 2019, 09:40   #64
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As noted, I stand corrected and edited my post above.
I found the dimension listed below at Brownell's, upon further investigation.
It is the same length for both Colt and DPMS, so I stopped searching.

Gas System Length: Rifle
Length: 15 1/8"
Material: Stainless Steel


https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...-prod4759.aspx

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...prod18341.aspx
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Old September 05, 2019, 10:13   #65
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Originally Posted by TenTea View Post
As noted, I stand corrected and edited my post above.
I found the dimension listed below at Brownell's, upon further investigation.
It is the same length for both Colt and DPMS, so I stopped searching.

Gas System Length: Rifle
Length: 15 1/8"
Material: Stainless Steel

By the way, this does point out something about 'slight' variability in the lengths...

Measuring carbine and mid-length and rifle gas tubes from varied sources (I have a bunch), the carbine and mid-length tubes are the same length (9.75 and 11.75, respectively), but the rifle length tubes fall into two lengths, 15.5 and 15.125). The real deal, .mil tubes, are 15.125"... I never noticed that difference before, and I don't remember the source of the 15.5 ones...

Even though I have dozens of gas tubes, I have no where near having representative examples of the scores of different manufacturers. Given the measured difference in rifle length tubes, that suggests other variability in length of tubes is possible/likely as well.

Learn something new every day, even without Alzheimer's...

Forrest

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Old September 05, 2019, 10:48   #66
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@ Forrest

Very interesting.
I have noticed variability in rifle length tubes, also.
The bends can be different as well.

However, I always thought I was mixing up my spare AR15 parts with AR10 parts.
Now there is a can-o-worms.
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Old September 05, 2019, 11:20   #67
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Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
...

The moment during the event of firing when bolt and carrier have to endure the vast majority of pressure generated by the cartridge occurs when the bullet has only travelled an inch, and well before the bullet allows any pressure to bleed into the gas port. After that, the pressure in the barrel drops sharply. If the gas port is excessively large, I suppose there is some extra pressure in the gas tube, and some extra pressure in the key on the bolt carrier. But, that pressure is quite tame compared to the pressures the bolt has to contain each time the rifle is fired.
Yes, but 'quite tame' is an extremely relative term.

"Quite tame' still destroys gun mechanisms that were designed for even tamer pressures...

Look what even a slightly increased gas port pressure will do to the op-rod of an M1 Garand. Or how it will beat up the internals of an AK...

The fact that the chamber/bolt will contain 55,000 psi is irrelevant...

Forrest
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Old September 05, 2019, 16:55   #68
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This graph my represent what your dealing with better.



Notice how high the port pressure is in a pistol length build and why I have learned to use pistol length gas for subsonic builds mostly especially if a suppressor is being used. After launching a $600 can 25 yards down range running full pressure ammo through a pistol length gas system and a quick change can all my pistol length builds now get thread on suppressors that are pinned so do not shake loose and get launched like a missle. I was lucky as bullet cleared end cap before suppressor came off. Tried two different mounts in case it was a bad mount issue but on the 8.5" 6.8 pistol the can has to be retightened every half magazine or the pressure causes it to slip a notch every round or few till it unscrew itself.

I even try to avoid carbine length gas except on SBR type rifles and go for intermediate, rifle or rifle +1, rifle +2 or longer. When I do use short gas systems such as pistol or carbine the rifle usually gets a pigtail gas tube which because of increased length and volume physics says pressure transmitted from port to carrier key has to be less and combine an adjustable block so am able to tune rifle from the front with the adjustable block and rear using different weight buffers.

It does not take huge increase of pressure exerted on gas key to cause the bolt carrier group to travel it's rearward and forward path much more violently, especially if someone throws a lightweight carrier into the mix. Then we also have dwell time to deal with. Often on short barrels we have situations where there is little barrel past the port which shortens dwell time and over gassing is one way to ensure enough gas gets to the BCG for a complete cycle of system in both directions. Then we have instances where have a lot of barrel past the port which increases time the gas system will be dumping pressure, powder residue and back blast into the receiver and at operator.

Have people make fun of my use of pigtail gas tunes claiming an extra turn or two of gas tube around the barrel could not change dynamics measurably. While I don't have the equipment to measure anything more than cyclic rate can say a two turn pigtail gas tube can slow cyclic rate as much as 50 rounds per minute. This means bolt is locked lomger, bullet has traveled downrange and clear of muzzle farther before bolt unlocks and begins it's travel. If bullet is still in the barrel or suppressoor when a bolt unlocks then we get a much larger pressure spike pushing the BCG along its path. If bullet has long exited the barrel/suppressor when bolt unlocks then much of the excess gas is puking out the muzzle instead of feeding back into the upper.

This is also another reason I use Superlative Arms adjustable gas blocks which vent excess pressure out front of block on carbine length and some mid length DI builds. Almost all of my pistol builds now get the Superlative Arms piston drive kits where gas is blown out front of port and muzzle till bolts unlocks then any residual pressure in barrel, especially if using a suppressor dumps out the chamber into the receiver and operators face. More of this I mitigate the happier I am. Some rifles have built are so lively that till I drop in an MGI Rate Reduction Buffer which usually slows cyclic rate down 100 to 200 rounds per minute they are not near as fun to shoot. It has been proven over and over the longer the bolt stays locked the better accuracy is realized in the rifle.

Nice little article on gas lengths. Reason for the carbine length gas was so dot mil could put bayonets in proper location of the original CAR 15 during the Vietnam War.

https://www.stngrusa.com/rifle-lengt...th-gas-systems

Other good reads.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...ths-explained/

https://www.primaryarms.com/blog/how...system-for-you

Anyone that is in a habit of buying varmint and target barrels from companies like White Oak Armament and others are used to barrel shipping with a gas block and tube already installed that is 1" to as much as 4" longer than a rifle length gas. Reason is with a super long barrel dwell time of projectile in the tube after it passes the rifle length mark would drive the port pressure up causing undue pressure and increasing cyclic rate of a varmint killer or paper puncher. I use full weight M16 carriers almost exclusively (except specialty buffers from companies like Dead Foot Arms and Battle Arms Development for super shorty pistols) along with a M16 Clinic buffer pad, longest gas system barrel will allow, then if necessary add adjustable gas and/or heavy buffers and sometimes both.

Many of White Oaks Service Rifle barrels/uppers ship with rifle plus two inch gas systems. If there was no advantage to longer gas why would they do such? It's more setup from standard and have to provide custom length gas tubes. Many of their varmint tubes ship with rifle plus three inch gas tubes and the pair of AR 10 barrels I have from when they were spinning those have rifle plus four inch gas tubes. A properly tuned rifle is a balancing act between length of gas system versus length of barrel past gas port and if either is overly out of balance the rifle suffers. This is the reason for a dozen different ways from Sunday to fix unbalanced gas issues.

Usually adjusting weight of buffer is a quick and easy fix. Adding adjustable gas block then tuning the amount of gas in a given range of loads along with correct buffer weight the operator can best balance his gas system for reliability, comfort and accuracy.

One chart of buffer weights with a few different designs. Notice the MGI Rate Reduction buffer near the bottom. It is a mechanical buffer and not a hydraulic like other attempts to skin the cat in similar fashion.



Now check out the Heavy Buffer chart and it's reccomendations. When drop an eight to ten ounce buffer in a build imagine the impact force on the bolt carrier as it slams into that much weight to calm a lively build down. Better have a burly bolt carrier to survive.



If there was not a need for such tuning parts MGI and Heavy Buffers would have been spit out the back of the poodle shooter market before anyone even heard of them much. Note some of the "bastard" non standard length gas systems not always discussed.



Only way to know for sure what gas system sometimes is to loosen block and measure from port to rear of barrel. Also with tube in place measure from rear of gas block to end of gas tube or inside of upper receiver to end of tube. I have purchased mid length tubes from websites and received intermediate or those odd length KAC tubes. Have purchased barrels that were advertised as mid length to discover they were actually intermediate as even the online vendors are not always sure what they bought when cleared out a bankrupt competitors stock and they don't always send a tech down to measure gas tubes to the 1/8". Eyeball them or go by label and clear them out letting some poor first time builder try and sort out an improper length gas tube. Sometime feel I have seen it all and someone comes into LGS with something totally odd or out of spec with baffled look and upset their Lego set didn't snap together as easily as they were led to believe. I still believe entire industry or at least the majority has deferred to selling rifles and parts that more often than not result in overgassed rifles as an overgassed rifle will usually at least shoot till break parts (unless so overgassed rounds hop in magazines due to way over aggressive bolt thrust causing rounds to dip and bolt to miss rim on forward stroke) where an undergassed won't work with cheap, low presure ammo.

Yes this is a lot of varied info that doesn't all apply to OP but it's stuff all builders or trouble shooters need to be aware of. I hope a little heavier buffer makes "Mr. Dremell's" little carbine happy as the proverbial Sewer Sewing Machine but if not an adjustable gas block or easy swap to MGI adjustable gas tube should handle it just fine. I would spend the extra five bucks and throw an M16 Clinic Buffer Pad on as well. Have torn down rifles I know have abused with binary mag dumps, high pressure 22 Nosler rounds and 6.8 binary fire to discover tail of bolt and buffer look almost unused much less abused when the pad has reached time for replacement. I like all the reliability fuses I can add without complicating the system.



All this and have not even discussed buffer springs. I like chrome silicone flatwire springs but 90% of time a good milspec round wire spring works just fine. Have had one wire in a braided spring snap and cause some issues before discovered spring was disentegrating and why I don't use braided spring much though one braid broken and they will often still work o.k. where as a broken coil on a milspec buffer spring and the whole deal come to a halt. Could dive into springs as have a lot of different things going on but that can be for a future wall of text.

I am not trying to school W.E.G. or many others here but some may find a hint that serves them in diagnosing a troubled rifle or setting up a rifle without problems in the future. Having built well over 100 AR's from 5.5" 5.56 to 26" 22 Noslers, 8.5" suppressed 458 SOCOMs, over 30 various 6.8's now plus a pile of wildcats and fixing more uppers than can count for others have seen a few things and usually know when a part like a heavy buffer goes in before testing or adjustable gas block at onset is a good idea especially with the 10.5", 11.5", 12.5", 13.7" and 14.7" builds as those barrels can ship with all sorts of odd gas lengths.
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Old September 05, 2019, 17:16   #69
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I need schoolin'... you aint foolin'

Emails say the H3 is to arrive Friday.
Range trip planned for Saturday.

Speaking of the Garand. I'll be shooting that too.
47.0 Varget and 145-grain milsurp bullet.

I like girls with pigtails. Not so sure about guns.
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Old September 05, 2019, 17:19   #70
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Oh BTW.

Fella on another forum is saying my bolt is travelling too far rearward. Says I should put a spacer to limit the travel.

Here's the bolt when the charging handle is pulled full-rearward.

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Old September 06, 2019, 07:52   #71
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What I haven't seen from anyone (maybe I missed it in the depths of Hueydom) is that you might want to lengthen your gas system to slow the gas down. AR function is all about having enough dwell time. Yes, a heavier buffer can help, but I find it a less desirable fix than extending the length of the gas system, which is an exceedingly common problem with pistol-length ARs. What you might want to look into is a pigtail gas tube. This essentially turns a pistol-length system into a carbine-length system. By doing so you delay the gas entering the BCG, thus giving the case the necessary amount of time to unseal from the chamber walls and making it a normal event to unlock the bolt and extract the case. In turn it also delays the reloading, preventing the forward movement of the BCG from striking the extracted case and potentially causing the stovepipes (which is what the nick on the cases look like to me, that the were being struck by a tooth on the bolt). Also by delaying all this it is MUCH nicer to the extractor as it's not having to overcome the case sealing to the chamber walls, as the system is a lot closer in timing to a "normal" (technically there is no "standard" when it comes to pistol-length systems, which I found out the hard way) system of the carbine. It's simple, it's cheap, and might be the 1 part than can solve your issues.


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Old September 06, 2019, 08:16   #72
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I'll offer some on point advice for whatever you want to take from it.

Your buffer spring is just as important as your buffer. Many of the buffer springs that come with new kits are junk, sourced from who knows where. BCM is a good source for a mil-spec buffer spring. I am a big fan of Sprinco buffer springs, the blue carbine buffer is found in every one of my carbines.

I prefer to build my own buffer to suit my particular build (if you stumble upon a chewed up H or higher weight buffer for cheap, grab it). Disassemble and keep buffers and spacers separated in divided parts box.
You can also collect/build a range of weighted buffers to test your builds with (as I have).

Again, before testing buffers, ensure that you start with a quality buffer spring.

Start with a lighter weight buffer and increase weight until the bolt reliably locks to the rear with your "baseline" ammo of choice. Stop there.

Here is a chart. H3 isn't shown, but you should figure out that an H3 buffer uses three tungsten weights.

There are specialized lighter aluminum weights out there, but I have never found a need for one.



This is a solid video on the buffer subject.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...0&&FORM=VRDGAR
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Old September 06, 2019, 08:33   #73
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I assume that you are using a carbine receiver extension ("buffer tube") with carbine buffer?

Please don't be offended by the question, it isn't an uncommon mistake.

I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle regarding dwell time on your configuration. Both carbine and mid-length gas systems work just fine on 16" barrels. Colt has been selling 16" barreled rifles with carbine gas systems to the public and LEO for decades, with no issues.

Par the course with many aftermarket barrels, especially 16", the gas port is routinely too big and over gassed. Swapping the buffers is a solid place to start. There are occasions where the gas port is so oversized that the barrel is basically defective (and garbage IMHO). If you cannot make your rifle run efficiently after adding an H3 buffer and quality buffer spring, I'd try an alternate barrel.
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Old September 06, 2019, 08:37   #74
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I did mention a pigtail to lengthen the gas system and adding an M16 Clinic buffer pad which mounts to front of buffer and provides a cushion between the tail of carrier and face of buffer. The M16 Clinic buffer pad will also act as your spacer to lessen rearward travel of bolt carrier group. I noticed Midway had discontinued them so ordered another dozen from Brownells at $4.xx on sale from $7.xx yesterday and $4 allieviates two potential issues. When have a lively rifle have seen tail of carrier beat front of buffer up and vice versa horribly.

I usually get upwards of 7,000 rounds out of a good buffer pad and like adding Wilson Shock-Buff to a full power high round count major power factor 1911 saves a ton of slide against frame battering the M16 Clinic does same for entire carrier group as it makes its rearward and forward travel. Guy brought a home build in a while back to buy his third buffer as tail of bolt was chipping up rim so badly that it would eventually over run the buffer detent pin and bind the gun. Put an M16 Buffer pad on his third buffer which at last look was showing wear but rifle was running better and buffer had zero damage. Told him to be sure and come back first sign that buffer pad has worn to point buffer picks up its first chip.

Pigtail is optional on a mid length gas system unless it is really beating itself silly and don't want to add adjustable gas block because of pinned muzzle device. I prefer adjustable gas blocks for overgas issues and an Ergo adjustable block is $45 everyday at Midway and usually buy in bulk when find on sale for $29.99 as are made in USA with lifetime warranty which is much more affordable to slap on a toy than a Superlative or similar $90 or more if plan is to set and forget.

Superlative and others are worth the extra if using quick change suppressors or switching between low velocity cast, 55 grain M193 and 77 grain SMK's but my guess is the "blast little carbine" is going to be fed most inexpensive milsurp you have laying around and dialing it in for 50 to 65 grain ammo is easy to do then Locktite the screw and forget. My guess is when get the heavier buffer if add a pad in conjunction with it your immediate problems will go away. Then based on how long it takes to see additional signs of rapid wear can decide then if want to fool with gas system.
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Old September 06, 2019, 08:58   #75
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Building an AR is straight forward, it isn't rocket science. Skip all the f'ing pointless internet garble, and all the gee-whiz armchair ninja aftermarket BS.

You shouldn't need specialized aftermarket BS to make a trivial 16" barrel AR rifle run like a sewing machine (carbine or rifle gas length).

If the rifle is grossly over gassed, find a new barrel. Quality barrels are not expensive. I've been impressed with Ballistic Advantage barrels, and especially pleased that their gas ports seem to be spot on.

Don't chase your tail seeking a half assed solution. It will not save you money or time, and you will not be content in the end.
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Old September 06, 2019, 10:22   #76
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Yes.

It is a carbine-length tube.

Magpul UBR Generation 2, using the furnished Magpul spacer in the tube.

FedEx guy just handed me the Box with the H3 buffer. Haven’t looked at it yet because I had to drive Miss Daisy. 6 Sprinco Springs were waiting on the porch when I got back from walking my kid’s dog. Kid is in New York to watch US Open finals.

I got a crick in my neck from cleaning guns yesterday. Took 3 of everything in the cabinet and under the sink. Feel better today. Range trip tomorrow.

Mailman delivered some bullets too. I wish Grafs would do a better job taping boxes.
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Old September 06, 2019, 13:37   #77
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Watch a Ballistic Advantage barrel split like Buggs Bunny sticking a carrot in Elmer Fudd's gun. Have seen other Ballistic Advantage barrels do the same but their Premium Series Hanson barrels are spot on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSizVpfqFtw
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Old September 06, 2019, 13:47   #78
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Originally Posted by lockjaw View Post
I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle regarding dwell time on your configuration. Both carbine and mid-length gas systems work just fine on 16" barrels. Colt has been selling 16" barreled rifles with carbine gas systems to the public and LEO for decades, with no issues.

Par the course with many aftermarket barrels, especially 16", the gas port is routinely too big and over gassed. Swapping the buffers is a solid place to start. There are occasions where the gas port is so oversized that the barrel is basically defective (and garbage IMHO). If you cannot make your rifle run efficiently after adding an H3 buffer and quality buffer spring, I'd try an alternate barrel.
But the difference is Colt is not randomly pitching a mix of parts together. When they switch gas system lengths their engineers do math to make sure ports are in proper size range for both distance to port and overall dwell time in a chosen barrel. Colt has been screwing AR's together for fifty years but they still let their engineers approve any configuration changes.

Not met the over-gassed rifle I could not tame with a $29 adjustable gas block if terribly over gassed, I believe the heavy buffer with a buffer pad will fix this issue. Send me a pile of barrels with oversize ports and will build them into give aways even if have to weld and re-drill the port.
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Old September 06, 2019, 18:21   #79
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Huey, I am a fan of adjustable gas blocks for certain applications. But I don’t use them as a band-aid for a poorly spec’d barrel.

A proper build should run efficiently without the need for an adjustable gas block.

In regard to Colt, I would argue that their rifles are over gassed.... with good reason, so they will function reliably in unfavorable conditions. They are not so over gassed that they will not run reliably with a carbine or H buffer. I typically run an H2 or Spikes ST-2 buffer with Sprinco blue spring in my factory Colts, with quality range fodder.
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Old September 06, 2019, 19:02   #80
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Sprinco chart.

As if different port sizes, dwell times, and buffer weights weren't enough to keep up with.

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Old September 06, 2019, 19:25   #81
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Blue is all I have used for all carbine builds, as far back as I remember. It is pretty much the gold standard for AR dorks (the ones that shoot).

It is all relatively straight forward IMHO. Approach your build with a plan, use quality parts from reputable vendors, and don’t over think it (which is easy to do if you reference Internet Wonderland).
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Old September 07, 2019, 19:35   #82
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Originally Posted by lockjaw View Post
Huey, I am a fan of adjustable gas blocks for certain applications. But I don’t use them as a band-aid for a poorly spec’d barrel.

A proper build should run efficiently without the need for an adjustable gas block.

In regard to Colt, I would argue that their rifles are over gassed.... with good reason, so they will function reliably in unfavorable conditions. They are not so over gassed that they will not run reliably with a carbine or H buffer. I typically run an H2 or Spikes ST-2 buffer with Sprinco blue spring in my factory Colts, with quality range fodder.
When I buy barrels from White Oak Armament and Noveske almost every one comes with non adjustable gas block mounted, gas tube installed and a hand selected and head spaced bolt. Only if barrel is going to be set up for quick change suppressor or a very specific load do I ever change the factory installed gas block from either company. When I want to be lazy order my Noveske barrels with their Switchblock system installed from factory.

Quote:
The Noveske SwitchBlock is an adjustable gas block designed to improve function and reliability when using a suppressor. The Switchblock is constructed of 17-4ph stainless steel for its corrosion and heat resistance with a black nitride finish. The block has three gas settings; Unsuppressed, Suppressed, and OFF. The settings are easily changed by depressing the locking plunger and rotating the knob to the desired setting. The suppressed setting reduces the amount of gas entering the system, counteracting the increase in gas pressure and volume when firing with a suppressor attached. The suppressor setting brings the gas pressure and volume closer to the normal levels, reducing the fouling, cyclic rate, and recoil normally experience with standard gas systems and suppressors. The OFF setting of the Switchblock will operate the rifle in a single-shot mode, eliminating the sound of the action cycling and controlling the brass ejection.*

Notes:
The Switchblock gas settings are sized for a specific barrel length. This model works with 14.5" to 16" 5.56x45mm NATO/ .223 Remington barrels with carbine length gas systems.*Each Switchblock® model is designed for a specific caliber, barrel length, and gas system.
Sometimes I prefer more than three settings then have a myriad of choices from Superlative Arms Bleed Off block to MicroMOA Govnah. Hate MicroMOA went away and my last few are being hoarded for special builds. Like the Noveske Switchblock they are three position and commonly set up tuned to specific rifle for unsuppressed, suppressed and either "no gas single shot" or "emergency mode full gas" in event rifle is getting super dirty and sluggish. Have several MicroMOA Govnahs with totally blank plates can set up in any configuration. They are pure simplicity but takes careful drilling where I will usually drill each port two or three times before it's feeding the correct gas to carrier key to make the rifle run exactly as need to for a specific application.

I am usually throwing every trick have learned building NRA Cross Course Service Rifle uppers and complete rifles along with surgical precision varmint killing machines. Just received a custom machined billet upper and lower matched after finishing but before pin holes are drilled. Company that did them for me went through a pile of their premium uppers and lowers then when had a pair that mated as perfectly as possible were jigged together then line bored together so pin holes are dead solid perfectly matched. They are heavy enough to support a W.O.A. profiled 26" Kreiger single point cut rifled 1:7.7 twist 22 Nosler barrel with rifle plus three inch gas length for maximum bolt lock up to use this coming springs crow season. Need a rifle when get a (purposely) wounded crow down and squawking can kill every member of the flock that always come to their wounded comrades aid. If my shot is 400 yards out from my blind and suddenly need the ability to smote crow size birds fast as they swoop in takes a heck of a rifle. This used to be a turn bolt in 22-250 Ackley Improved or 22 CHeetahs job but now have ability with AR's to build a rifle thats up to the task.

My current crow rifle is buit on a set of DPMS LoPro receivers with a 24" 1:8 3R tube that after receiving from profiler sent off for custom finish and was assembled with much love and every trick have learned. It shoots 1.15" at 200 yards and sub 1.5" consistently at 250 which is longest range with good benches and backstop convenient to me without a long drive. While this sounds pretty accurate when ranging on crows out at 400 to 450 or more yards rifle is minute of crow at best and not a guaranteed kill shot or even harder a purposely wounding shot that will anchor and set him hollering. The goal for the new build is going to be sub 1" at 200 yards with relative ease and repeatability off a good rest. I want to be able to range a crow at 432 yards, run my algorithms, dial up my dope and shoot it just above where feet join the body where they collapse then start flapping their wings and screamimg. This usually starts a killing spree that lasts as long as at least one crow is still crying for help.

Not only do you have to throw every trick from squaring uppers, bedding barrel extensions, heavy wall upper receivers, slowing the bolt unlocking while calming the bolts run to rear and back as smooth as warm butter on polished glass. Then to make this work not only do you have to get your load right but profiled correctly. Most run their load across a chronograph then look up the published ballistic coefficient of projectile but in real life there is a meticulous process called "truing" your muzzle velocity and your ballistic coefficient to what is being launched from your rifle. I take additional velocity readings at 100 and 200 yards along with actual bullet drop to compare with what the charts say it should be and real life reveals. Then this information has to be input into your field ballistic computing so your 300, 400, 500 and longer range shots are not inches off from numbers spit out of your ballistics app or what's printed on your range card. Learned a long time ago could use my Ohler PBL and factory published data on projectile with measured point of hits at 50 and 100 yards along with velocity at muzzle, 50 and 100 yards, print a range card and discover it was three to ten inches off in real world from match using arbitrary published numbers on bullet with a few chronograph passes when projectile was seeking out a coyote at 600 to 800 yards.

What does this have to do with W.E.G.'s OP on the blasty little carbine? It's all the tricks I have learned from working triggers down to a crisp 2.0 pounds in an AR 15 with proper amount of travel as most people get hung on reducing travel too much and trigger hits the stop while hammer is still falling and affects the shot. While we want to limit travel we don't want to stop it too soon. While we want our rifles to run 100% reliable which over gassing can acomplish properly gassing a build so bolt stays locked till projectile is well on its way down range, rifles reloading cycle is so smooth follow up shots are tenths to quarter seconds faster, muzzle rise does not exist or is minimal which can't be avoided with a little carbine and trigger is not overly adjusted and more.

I take all of this information gathered from building AR 15's for combat use where may need to kill someone at 300 yards with a head shot or lose your life or team mates lives, NRA Service Rifle uppers where a shooter is spending thousands of dollars a year just in travel expenses and ammo on the quest to Camp Perry and their Master ticket. Where a 1/10" inch in way rifle performs on range times number of shots fired can be the difference in finishing 30 places higher or lower in final results. Or building a 10.5" pistol for a truck gun that can put center of mass hits on a zombie at 250 yards with ease. Have spent 30+ years building poodle shooters and mentored under some artists and get help from people in the industry to this day don't mention their names as they make a living for a lot of people knowing a very specific set of torque values for every fastener on a rifle which is part of why their product stands out in a crowd.

Even my give away rifles built from free take off OEM parts shoot as well as most $1,000 retail AR's and sometimes better. When barrel a service rifle upper and think about fact it's owner is going to spend up to $10,000 in travel expenses, ammo and missed time from work should I not help them understand why a particular $450 barrel is going to serve them much better than a $325 barrel being raved about on barf.com? That's only 1.5 nights hotel bill while on the road that spent on their barrel will possibly push them 10 or more placements up the list. When see that coyote at twilight and my Mk 12 Mod H clone is in the truck and has to make a 370 yard first round cold bore hit I want to know every trick from a four dollar buffer pad to properly polished interior of buffer tube, gas impulse is calm but utterly reliable has been done to find a tenth here, a sixteenth there, maybe another quarter inch just in bedding the barrel extension is done. It's why I can often take a barrel given to me at LGS because it was defective or didn't feed, ws inaccurate and often build a sub MOA rifle around it with a pile of other free parts.

I don't do Colt, DPMS, LMT or Daniel Defense assembly line rifles. Even my beat up junker are hand built with all the precision I can put in and if suddenly have to add a $150 buffer to a $400 build to make it super happy I will do it. Just have to understand the why of dropping that buffer in. I am no guru and many build much better rifles but I do the best I can on every try.
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Old September 07, 2019, 20:20   #83
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Blasty little carbine ran smoke-stack free today.

Shot about 100 rounds various M193 (55 grain), SS109 (62 grain), and 75 Hornady handload.

Still running the SIG Romeo 5 red-dot. All firing sling-supported only at target distance of 100 yards.
Grouping mostly on top half of 8.5x11 copier paper used as target.

Summary of changes since last outing:
H3 buffer and original buffer spring.
Extractor equipped with original spring, but with black insert instead of blue insert, and O-ring added.

Ejection still toward 1 o-clock, but with much less launch-force.
Several cases hit my finger tips on my open-finger shooting glove. Which was a little distracting, but not at all painful.

Ding on case body is less-depth than previously, and farther up the body.


Indentation on case rim from extractor claw is about the same as before.


Scrapes on case neck from contact with locking lugs on barrel extension about the same.
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Old September 07, 2019, 20:34   #84
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I may yet experiment with some of the Springco springs to see if anything significant changes.

I would prefer an ejection angle that is more toward 4 oclock.

The Magpul UBR buffer tube already has the supplied spacer installed to take up the space that could be used for the "A5" buffer. I really dont' know anything about the "A5" type buffer at this point. Probably should get educated on that. Maybe removing the spacer in the buffer and running an A5 buffer is the answer to the ejection angle.

Also can consider adding my own home-made spacer in the buffer tube to reduce the rearward travel of the present buffer. There is enough clearance-of-travel beyond the bolt-catch to allow some amount of extra spacer. My concern is that restricting the travell of the existing buffer may reduce the jump-up time for the bolt-catch to the point that I may compromise lock-back reliability. Currently the bolt is reliably locking back on last shot.
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Old September 07, 2019, 21:34   #85
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The only significant difference between the A5 and a standard carbine buffer is the length. The A5 buffer tube is 3/4" longer than a g.i. carbine buffer tube, so the A5 buffer had to be longer. The A5 system came along just so an A2 rifle spring could be used with a carbine style buffer tube.

I make my own A5 system by using a 3/4" spacer in an A5 or DPMS AR-10 carbine buffer tube and whatever weight carbine buffer is required. You could also use an Armalite AR-10 carbine buffer tube, but you'd need a 1" spacer.

The A5 buffer won't change the ejection pattern unless you change the weight substantially.
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Old September 07, 2019, 21:44   #86
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Try running your extractor w/o the black doughnut. You shouldn't need it.

Crane found that it helped thrashed M4 rifles run better in extremely inclimate conditions, while shooting high rates of fire in "last ditch" situations. If that applies to you, maybe the o-ring will help you out?

In my personal experience, we never used these things in any of our USGI issued rifles..... ever. If there was an extractor issue, the spring and insert were replaced (which was rare, outside of mass refurb). Blue was typically found found in our A2 rifles, eventually we saw nothing but black inserts in new M4s and A4s. Blue inserts are still found in service rifles, though replacements were all black. When I retired, we started swapping in a thicker brass colored spring with black insert during the M4A1 update.

In a nut shell, the o-ring is a band-aid for a weak extractor. The tacti-cool distributors latched on to these cheap little add-ons to appeal to the tacti-cool kids looking to throw their cash away. Hell, why not? Soon all the cool kids had to have them.

On the flipside, your extractor can be too strong, do nasty things to your brass, and can impact the angle at which your brass is tossed.
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Old September 07, 2019, 21:45   #87
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I just copy the guvermint and assemble 20-inch rifel. They had it figured out by 1967.
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Old September 07, 2019, 23:15   #88
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I just copy the guvermint and assemble 20-inch rifel. They had it figured out by 1967.
That works too!

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Old September 08, 2019, 02:01   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw View Post
Huey, I am a fan of adjustable gas blocks for certain applications. But I don’t use them as a band-aid for a poorly spec’d barrel.

A proper build should run efficiently without the need for an adjustable gas block.

In regard to Colt, I would argue that their rifles are over gassed.... with good reason, so they will function reliably in unfavorable conditions. They are not so over gassed that they will not run reliably with a carbine or H buffer. I typically run an H2 or Spikes ST-2 buffer with Sprinco blue spring in my factory Colts, with quality range fodder.
When I buy barrels from White Oak Armament and Noveske almost every one comes with non adjustable gas block mounted, gas tube installed and a hand selected and head spaced bolt. Only if barrel is going to be set up for quick change suppressor or a very specific load do I ever change the factory installed gas block from either company. When I want to be lazy order my Noveske barrels with their Switchblock system installed from factory.

Quote:
The Noveske SwitchBlock is an adjustable gas block designed to improve function and reliability when using a suppressor. The Switchblock is constructed of 17-4ph stainless steel for its corrosion and heat resistance with a black nitride finish. The block has three gas settings; Unsuppressed, Suppressed, and OFF. The settings are easily changed by depressing the locking plunger and rotating the knob to the desired setting. The suppressed setting reduces the amount of gas entering the system, counteracting the increase in gas pressure and volume when firing with a suppressor attached. The suppressor setting brings the gas pressure and volume closer to the normal levels, reducing the fouling, cyclic rate, and recoil normally experience with standard gas systems and suppressors. The OFF setting of the Switchblock will operate the rifle in a single-shot mode, eliminating the sound of the action cycling and controlling the brass ejection.*

Notes:
The Switchblock gas settings are sized for a specific barrel length. This model works with 14.5" to 16" 5.56x45mm NATO/ .223 Remington barrels with carbine length gas systems.*Each Switchblock® model is designed for a specific caliber, barrel length, and gas system.
Sometimes I prefer more than three settings then have a myriad of choices from Superlative Arms Bleed Off block to MicroMOA Govnah. Hate MicroMOA went away and my last few are being hoarded for special builds. Like the Noveske Switchblock they are three position and commonly set up tuned to specific rifle for unsuppressed, suppressed and either "no gas single shot" or "emergency mode full gas" in event rifle is getting super dirty and sluggish. Have several MicroMOA Govnahs with totally blank plates can set up in any configuration. They are pure simplicity but takes careful drilling where I will usually drill each port two or three times before it's feeding the correct gas to carrier key to make the rifle run exactly as need to for a specific application.

On Topic
On to ideas about W.E.G.'s issues. I most often use the gold Colt AR15A4 Extractor Spring Assembly with the black rubber insert inside the spring. Have had great results, know your spring is fresh and the donuts can break and become an unseen issue to diagnose again in the future.



It's $3.65 at Brownells which give opportunity to buy the $4 M16 Clinic Buffer Pad. I am a fan of heavy buffers in special applications but in a build that's neither a pistol length gas or otherwise an "extreme varience" from a traditional sized DI carbine unless own one or just want to have an H5 in the kit it should help but may not fix your issue which I believe is overgassed. As mentioned this is a second or third hand rifle. It could have been returned due cycling rates when new and builder drilled port, "gunsmith" or someone who posts at barf.com could have drilled it if not overgassed from day barrel was drilled at factory.

I would be up the barrel with my bore scope immediately to get an idea before proceding. May see a drill but kiss on rifling opposite side of port which is a fast verification a home mechanic with hand drill opened but if see no such kiss experience plus a scope that captures still photos (my better one does photos and video so able to inspect entire bore then save to hard drive for a good look and even later review to determine wear from day you purchased to some arbitrary date in the future. Then scope a couple other 5.56 poodle shooters and try to get a feel for possibility port may be oversize, especially by a good bit.

If your scope shows an obvious gaping gas port would work from front end and if clearance inside that handguard would go the easy route first with an MGI Rate Reduction Buffer which keep multiples in kit or an with MGI Adjustable Gas Tube which only requires removing the handguard, drifting a single pin and swapping tube for tube. I keep the adjustable tunes in carbine and intermediate in house in bulk same as have every weight buffer from carbine to Slash Heavy Buffers at 8.5 ounces and may even have a 10 ounce unit laying about along wits a couple MGI Rate Reduction Buffers. Most part time builders and Gremlin chasers don't want to own $250 to $500 in assorted buffers (keep half dozen or more in H2 and H3 plus multiple H4's) several $50 MGI gas tubes.

At this point I would go with the most guaranteed way to fix the carbine and tune it without blind buffer swaps unless able to borrow an H5 before buying unless want it in spare parts kit if does not fix your issue to satisfaction. Go to Brownells and order the Colt AR15A4 gold extractor springs with black rubber insert for $3.65, M16 Clinic Buffer Pad at $4.72 and stick to face of new H3 buffer (degrease and clean well before adhering) along with an Odin Works Low Profile Tunable Gas block for $44 (on sale from $51.30). With free shipping on orders over $49 your $52.xx order gets free shipping covers your bolt spacing and cushions buffer bolt carrier interaction, gets best non exotic extractor spring setup IMO and just dial the adjustment screw on block till brass falls where you want and most likely ding free on brass and fingers.

Will be $30 to $40 into an H5 buffer and still may be over gassed from front end just a buffer isn't going to fix. Add $10 to $20 bucks and once buffer pad is installed along with extractor spring a few turns on screw of the adjustable gas block and can point that brass at 3:00 o'clock into the ear of the shooter next to you back to 4:30 o'clock which is far back as want it and usually tune my little carbines to 3:45 right in sweet spot and piles brass in easy area to police up. If does not fix your issue will buy the gas block from you if don't want it rolling around in your kit.

Hueyville Rambling
I am usually throwing every trick have learned building NRA Cross Course Service Rifle uppers and complete rifles along with surgical precision varmint killing machines. Just received a custom machined billet upper and lower matched after finishing but before pin holes were drilled. Company that did them for me went through a pile of their premium uppers and lowers then when had a pair that mated as perfectly as possible were jigged together then line bored together so pin holes are dead solid perfectly matched. They are heavy enough to support the W.O.A. profiled 26" Kreiger single point cut rifled 1:7.7 twist 22 Nosler barrel with rifle plus three inch gas length for maximum bolt lock up to use this coming springs crow season. Need a rifle when get a (purposely) wounded crow down and squawking can kill every member of the flock that always come to their wounded comrades aid. If my shot is 400 yards out from my blind and suddenly need the ability to smote crow size birds fast as they swoop in takes a heck of a rifle. This used to be a turn bolt in 22-250 Ackley Improved or 22 CHeetahs job but now have ability with AR's to build a rifle thats up to the task.

My current crow rifle is buit on a set of DPMS LoPro receivers with a 24" 1:8 3R tube that after receiving from profiler sent off for custom finish and was assembled with much love and every trick have learned. It shoots 1.15" at 200 yards and sub 1.5" consistently at 250 which is longest range with good benches and backstop convenient to me without a long drive. While this sounds pretty accurate when ranging on crows out at 400 to 450 or more yards rifle is minute of crow at best and not a guaranteed kill shot or even harder a purposely wounding shot that will anchor and set him hollering. The goal for the new build is going to be sub 1" at 200 yards with relative ease and repeatability off a good rest. I want to be able to range a crow at 432 yards, run my algorithms, dial up my dope and shoot it just above where feet join the body where they collapse then start flapping their wings and screamimg. This usually starts a killing spree that lasts as long as at least one crow is still crying for help.

Not only do you have to throw every trick from squaring uppers, bedding barrel extensions, heavy wall upper receivers, slowing the bolt unlocking while calming the bolts run to rear and back as smooth as warm butter on polished glass. Then to make this work not only do you have to get your load right but profiled correctly. Most run their load across a chronograph then look up the published ballistic coefficient of projectile but in real life there is a meticulous process called "truing" your muzzle velocity and your ballistic coefficient to what is being launched from your rifle. I take additional velocity readings at 100 and 200 yards along with actual bullet drop to compare with what the charts say it should be and real life reveals. Then this information has to be input into your field ballistic computing so your 300, 400, 500 and longer range shots are not inches off from numbers spit out of your ballistics app or what's printed on your range card.

Learned a long time ago could use my Ohler PBL and factory published data on projectile with measured point of hits at 50 and 100 yards along with velocity at muzzle, 50 and 100 yards, print a range card and discover it was three to ten inches off in real world from math using arbitrary published numbers on bullet with a few chronograph passes when projectile was seeking out a coyote at 600 to 800 yards.

My load for varmints is either a 52 grain or 69 grain SMK and have trued both to each of my 224 varmint rifles. Have a matched pair of 5.56 W.O.A. 24" Wylde 1:12 rifles built exactly down to triggers and same high power Vortex scopes in top so if get on a hot varmint field such as Prarie Dogs out west soon as one starts heating up just move to shooting mat on other side of spotting scope and go back at them with a cold rifle then switch back to twin number one when number two gets hot. Always keep a cool rifle this way so don't damage my throats anymore than necessary. Often carry one of the twins and the 22 Nosler so if crow fest starts at 100 to 300 yards can shoot less expensive and lesser barrel burning 5.56 through the long 1:12 twist tube. Reason building another 22 Nosler crow rifle is not only looking for more accuracy it does not take long to overheat and smoke the throat on the overbore round. Like taking out the 22 CHeetah turn bolt, five to six rounds in less than five minutes and have to let sit or will pull the throat out before fire twenty rounds.

What does this have to do with W.E.G.'s OP on the blasty little carbine? It's all the tricks I have learned from working triggers down to a crisp 2.0 pounds in an AR 15 with proper amount of travel as most people get hung on reducing travel too much and trigger hits the stop while hammer is still falling and affects the shot. While we want to limit travel we don't want to stop it too soon. While we want our rifles to run 100% reliable which over gassing can acomplish properly gassing a build so bolt stays locked till projectile is well on its way down range, rifles reloading cycle is so smooth follow up shots are tenths to quarter seconds faster, muzzle rise does not exist or is minimal which can't be avoided with a little carbine and trigger is not overly adjusted and more.

I take all of this information gathered from building AR 15's for combat use where may need to kill someone at 300 yards with a head shot or lose your life or team mates lives, NRA Service Rifle uppers where a shooter is spending thousands of dollars a year just in travel expenses and ammo on the quest to Camp Perry and their Master ticket. Where a 1/10" inch in way rifle performs on range times number of shots fired can be the difference in finishing 30 places higher or lower in final results. Or building a 10.5" pistol for a truck gun that can put center of mass hits on a zombie at 250 yards with ease. Have spent 30+ years building poodle shooters and mentored under some artists and get help from people in the industry to this day don't mention their names as they make a living for a lot of people knowing a very specific set of torque values for every fastener on a rifle which is part of why their product stands out in a crowd.

Even my give away rifles built from free take off OEM parts shoot as well as most $1,000 retail AR's and sometimes better. When barrel a service rifle upper and think about fact it's owner is going to spend up to $10,000 in travel expenses, ammo and missed time from work should I not help them understand why a particular $450 barrel is going to serve them much better than a $325 barrel being raved about on barf.com? That's only 1.5 nights hotel bill while on the road that spent on their barrel will possibly push them 10 or more placements up the list. When see that coyote at twilight and my Mk 12 Mod H clone is in the truck and has to make a 370 yard first round cold bore hit I want to know every trick from a four dollar buffer pad to properly polished interior of buffer tube, gas impulse is calm but utterly reliable has been done to find a tenth here, a sixteenth there, maybe another quarter inch just in bedding the barrel extension is done. It's why I can often take a barrel given to me at LGS because it was defective or didn't feed, ws inaccurate and often build a sub MOA rifle around it with a pile of other free parts.

I don't do Colt, DPMS, LMT or Daniel Defense assembly line rifles. Even my beat up junker are hand built with all the precision I can put in and if suddenly have to add a $150 buffer to a $400 build to make it super happy I will do it. Just have to understand the why of dropping that buffer in. I am no guru and many build much better rifles but I do the best I can on every try. As an FYI for light trigger freaks while have one which is not in a rifle now the Timney Calvin Elite 1.5 pound pull is being seen from $219 to $224 if like a trigger that requires a lot of tuning then either locktite screws or have to readjust if don't. Please skip the aggressive thread locking compounds on these triggers. I can get to 1.5 pound pull using $148 Jard AR two stage triggers but if don't use them properly will double on you. I can shoot all day with one and not double then let friends shoot and will double on more than half to try it.
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Last edited by hueyville; September 08, 2019 at 08:35. Reason: add complete model name to extractor spring, duh
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Old September 08, 2019, 16:29   #90
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I thought I'd start a thread on this gun because its Labor Day, and I'm bored, and I can't afford an expensive holiday vacation. Not that I'm into going to the beach and looking at fat people in their underwear anyway. That means I'm stuck here with all you assholes.
I did the expensive vacation thing. Rented a 2019 Audi Quattro with 270 miles on it and drove it up to Branson Missouri to see some shows with a group of friends. It was a good time. While I would not buy one the Audi is noticeably a precision machine which made driving the twisties thru the Ozarks south on 23 (Pig Trail Scenic Byway) to I40 quite fun.

Hope you get your carbine fixed.
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Old September 08, 2019, 16:59   #91
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I recently rented a brand new RAV4 in South Dakota.

Very smooth up to 110. At around 125 it gets pretty sketchy.

We seen a lot of farm land.

Glad they don't data-log usage on those rentals.

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Old September 08, 2019, 17:16   #92
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If he lets all of us help it could be rebuilt into 17 different rifles before he decided which version he liked the best. Me, no matter how spendy get on a barrel and other exterior bolt on parts an M16 carrier with milspec HPT/MPI shot peened Carpenter 158 bolt backed up by an H2 or H3 buffer and milspec buffer spring should almost always work. When it doesn't then something is out of spec so let the opinions fly because like @$$holes, we all have at least one.

I choose to use chrome silicone flatwire buffer springs and either bolts hand matched by premium barrel maker or swap in a LMT lobster tail bolt because I know either will work as well or better than the milspec Carpenter 158 and have used all enough that know how it's going to affect the system. Just like sticking an M16 Clinic Buffer Pad on most of my buffers. Most cases it adds durability to the rifle but in others it screws up the fit of another bastard part. It's when we don't understand what one minute change may do is when the fun begins. Had a guy come in LGS and buy three ultra lightweight bolt carriers without complaint till brought them all back broken and asked why such an expensive part kept coming apart....
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Old September 08, 2019, 17:21   #93
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I totally spaced romping on it. Now I feel kinda weenie. I did have wifey and a friend in the car though so thats my excuse.

My carbines run but I'm not happy with them accuracy wise. I like the old CMMG bargain barrel 20" and my 18" SPR much better. Thanks for posting this thread, I am inspired to try mess with the carbines some.
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Old September 08, 2019, 18:21   #94
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If he lets all of us help it could be rebuilt into 17 different rifles before he decided which version he liked the best. Me, no matter how spendy get on a barrel and other exterior bolt on parts an M16 carrier with milspec HPT/MPI shot peened Carpenter 158 bolt backed up by an H2 or H3 buffer and milspec buffer spring should almost always work. When it doesn't then something is out of spec so let the opinions fly because like @$$holes, we all have at least one.
Hmmm...

I'm guessing that there's a story here, but I'm afraid to ask...

Forrest
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Old September 08, 2019, 21:12   #95
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Its already turned into TWO uppers.

And that's before I spent hundreds on buttstocks triggers and tools and experimental parts.

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Old September 08, 2019, 22:24   #96
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A passel of blasty little carbines. Tiny pic has closed shop and have over 2,000 pictures posted to different boards and topics gone. Now it's pay photobucket.

The White Oak Armament Flaming Pig. 16.015" from bolt face to end of pinned flash can with a pigtail gas tube. Built two of these on 12.5" White Oak Armament barrels and with a 10x scope rather than 1x red dots they both shoot 1 MOA or just under with 69 grain SMKs. Have two more of the 12.5" WOA barrels from this lot left to build.





10.5" FN barreled one stamp SBR:



14.7" FN in 6.8 spc II with Reaper Buck camo finish:



14.7" FN 6.8 spc II with Tiger Stripe cam finish:

[/URL]



Have a total of four 6.8's built on same barrel with other pair having binary triggers and 1-4x Leupold illuminated optics. Have to dig up photos of them or pull from vault and take some.

XM177 Clone:



12.5" 5.56 truck gun:



10.5" 5.56 piston drive truck gun:



8.5" Bison 6.8 spc II 1:7 piston drive truck gun:





Now I have to go pull all the 10.5" through 13.7" Noveske builds as have multiples in each length in both 5.56 and 6.8. Wife and I always carry 10.5" Noveske Afghan 6.8's as truck guns when travel out of state as classify as pistols and covered by our CCW/GWL's as pistols. Have at least four 14.7" 5.56 pinned carbines that have no pics in phone, tablet or website as well as more 6.8's in 14.7". Finally figured out could pin 12.5" and 13.7" barrels and get 16.015" to 16.25" OAL rather than ~17" OAL's using 14.7" tubes. If remember correctly last Talley on log showed over 20 5.56 and 6.8's in 10.5" to 14.7" range. Have about a dozen 5.5" through 9.5" pistols from the great pistol experiment when realized that out of state a loaded AR Pistol in hands reach of truck beat an unloaded rifle in lock behind the seat.

Went crazy building piston drive 5.56 and 6.8 pistols along with DI 458 SOCOM as all the reps said no guarantee on their piston kits if used on 458 SOCOM plus all have pinned or quick change cans can easily snap on so the pin-ups are really single stamp SBRs with 8.5" barrels and huge 8" cans to make them scary quiet with 550 grain subsonics. While I much prefer 18", 20" and 24" barrel lengths with a few 22" and 26" thrown in for good measure. Own less 16" builds than any other length as rather pin up to 16" or skip straight to 18" or more. Majority of my 16" rifles are factory built investments still in original boxes and kept well greased. Man has to have a full assortment of poodle shooters as believe all will double, triple or more in value under next Democrat president.
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Old September 08, 2019, 22:40   #97
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I don’t really expect to turn a worthwhile profit on any of my accumulation. Although I do hope to at least realize enough to pay for some car repairs when the time come to thin the heard more before someone takes it all away from me.
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Old September 08, 2019, 22:54   #98
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I don't expect to make money on builds as plan to wear them out before I die. It's the entry level DPMS, Smith M&P 15's and similar never take out of original box will subsidize my habit with. Still have a stack of preban AK's paid $129 each in original boxes with all accessories (glad they loved to pack them in 1/2" of cosmoline) as well as stacks of SKS-Ms and SKSs purchased at $99 for the M models and $79 for the standard SKSs. Been selling off those stacks since Y2k and still have more than enough. Bought one a week for two years and make more off all the preban 75 round drums bought for $19.99 to $24.99 during the day....
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Old September 09, 2019, 20:03   #99
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I don’t really expect to turn a worthwhile profit on any of my accumulation. Although I do hope to at least realize enough to pay for some car repairs when the time come to thin the heard more before someone takes it all away from me.
If you buy AR parts new, you are assured to lose $$$ on resale. Plan ahead and build the AR that scratches your specific itch, and enjoy it to fruition. It is far from cost effective to resell a home built AR, regardless of the quality.
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Old September 09, 2019, 20:07   #100
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….. plan to wear them out before I die.


Good luck with that.
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