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Old January 13, 2020, 20:49   #1
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Consider that over 1 billion people live on less than $2 per day

And that none of them were born in the United States. Or Canada. Or Australia. Or western Europe. Unless they moved somewhere else to enjoy that standard of living. This says a lot about how we do things, and much of the world does not.

Please discuss.

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Old January 13, 2020, 20:50   #2
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I'm not sure there are any people in Mexico that poor. You have to include social safety nets in the mix.

Or most of the former Soviet Union.
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Old January 13, 2020, 20:54   #3
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According to investopedia, if you make about $30K a year, you are in the top 1% of the planet. That doesn't account for cost of living but still...
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Old January 13, 2020, 21:15   #4
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Dunno, I rode through places in Mumbai where people lived in slums that weren't much more than corrugated metal shanties and saw folks with cell phones. A 20ft container would have been a mansion
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Old January 13, 2020, 21:20   #5
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And a lot of those people live in a pile of filth, trawling garbage heaps for food and clothes, while trodding about in their own feces. Then there are those who don't live on the streets in San Francisco...

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Old January 13, 2020, 21:29   #6
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Our church has an outreach program in Haiti and the missionaries said all the locals have smart phones but none of them work. They don't have any minutes on them. A smart phone is purely a status symbol.

In former Soviet countries, a lot of young women have smart phones but they're given to them by 'sponsors'. Not a bad set-up, I wouldn't mind sponsoring a few myself.

Just because the indigenous population of a poor country has smart phones doesn't mean they have phones that work or ones they can afford.
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Old January 13, 2020, 21:31   #7
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Importing millions of them will make our Western nations look a lot more like theirs than accrue any benefits towards us.
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Old January 13, 2020, 22:50   #8
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In 1968,,,many of us lived on 2 bucks a day,,,, and then learned,,we'd get an extra buck and a half or so, we was rich,just by jumping out of airplanes.

Some people and some countries do well,,,others,,not so good.

Rome was doing well thousands of years ago,,still pretty good today,,while say,,area now known as Uganda,,subject to change, was a shit hole back then,,by our standards,,and still is today.

Different peoples,,,value different things.
The USA values are not the same as most third world countries.
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Old January 13, 2020, 23:09   #9
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Importing millions of them will make our Western nations look a lot more like theirs than accrue any benefits towards us.
That’s the plan.....what’s easier? Bringing others up to our standard of living and them having our rights and freedoms etc...or bringing us down to theirs and losing our rights and freedoms?
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Old January 14, 2020, 00:54   #10
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I enjoy your comments. Please continue.
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Old January 14, 2020, 00:58   #11
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Isn't it remarkable that our evil system of doing things results in none of the abject poverty on the planet? Of course, the progressives would claim we are to blame. They say so while those poor folks wear our discarded clothing.

Where do such impoverished people come from?
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Old January 14, 2020, 01:00   #12
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They all come from expanding populations that do not share our culture. All of them.
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Old January 14, 2020, 01:05   #13
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What really baffles me is that a lot of those people work really hard. So what is the difference? What makes our way better?
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Old January 14, 2020, 01:15   #14
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Consider this...let's imagine that after some tragedy in Haiti, people need oranges. So we send 10 million oranges to Haiti to help. But now, the orange farmer in Haiti can't give away an orange and goes bankrupt. His orchard dies from financial neglect.

Did we help Haiti?
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Old January 14, 2020, 01:49   #15
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I'm trying to remember a parable here for some reason . . .

But then I realize that the orange farmer in the shithole doesn't have any oranges.

Suddenly, by this nation's graciousness the shithole people have oranges aplenty.

The farmer can't sell the oranges he doesn't have?

And now it is our fault?
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Old January 14, 2020, 02:29   #16
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Naw. He had oranges. Maybe not that many. Maybe not great oranges. But before the disaster, the oranges came from somewhere, didn't they?

What do you sell? How would it be if somebody marched into your market and gave whatever that is away for free? For a year? Or two? Could you survive that?
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Old January 14, 2020, 03:06   #17
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If the shithole people had to do without oranges for a while and had to make due until the local crops were producing again and all pitched-in and helped make that happen while the USA provided them with a diminishing supply to make up for the difference then that might work out OK.

But there would always be those shithole people who would scream bloody murder if they had to do without while anyone else on the planet had not suffered the losses of that crop and would demand that some-one do something to make them whole.

That eventual bitching effects everyone else on the planet, How?

Before electronic communication and gut wrenching PSA's/commercials no one would even know about this issue outside of that shithole country.

The shithole country and it's inhabitants would either work to fix the problem themselves and prosper or die as a result of their efforts/lack-there-of to survive.


What is the problem here other than women and their emotions controlling all of the pussy?

Later . . .

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Old January 14, 2020, 07:00   #18
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Western civilization. Now they are trying to deconstruct it as in white european descent people=evil
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Old January 14, 2020, 08:49   #19
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And Democrats want to bring them here and put them on your public tax dollars.......
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Old January 14, 2020, 09:39   #20
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Meanwhile, in Texas...

AG Paxton: Here's why Texas is the first state to close doors to new refugees

Fort Worth is a major resettlement center. Having lived there, I can attest to the fact that if you go to say, Wal-Mart, almost none of the employees are "native" and neither are many of the shoppers. It makes for an interesting experience. We had a certain amount of immigrant-related crime - prinicipally from young immigrants who didn't realize they'd be deported once they cleared the correctional facility.

The other dimension to resettlement that baffled me was what it took to naturalize their heathen children into Fort Worth schools. Fort Worth ISD had something like 60 different languages spoken and had to keep people on staff to deal with that. I guess that makes sense if the newbies haven't learned English yet.

Also, all around the Metroplex, your Uber/Lyft driver is likely from Africa/Middle East. Makes for interesting trips to the bar.

Also around the Metroplex, we've got homeless vagrants shambling about everywhere. I saw many homeless camps in my time in Fort Worth. I wish there was literally anything to be done with those people short of forcing them into an asylum or a CCC-style labor camp, but many of them choose to be homeless. I'm not sure there's a civil-liberties friendly/freedom-style solution to them.
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Old January 14, 2020, 10:39   #21
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As the planet overpopulates, resources diminish we will all be moving lower, eventually down to that level.

We would already be far lower if not for the magic of the FED's printing press and reserve currency status.
That too will change.





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Old January 14, 2020, 10:56   #22
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In 1968,,,many of us lived on 2 bucks a day,,,, and then learned,,we'd get an extra buck and a half or so, we was rich,just by jumping out of airplanes.

As another former member of the "Two Bucks a day Club", actually $2.33, I can't say I'd recommend the lifestyle very highly. It did include room and board however. The "Room" included 30 other people that you got to know quite well. The "Board" was at times Chipped beef on toast and there's no way of telling how many you had to share that with.
Other times it was your very own C Rats that you didn't have to share with anyone unless you wanted to. MRE's weren't invented yet.

Jumping out of Aircraft, unless on fire, never appealed to me, but there was a thing called Sea Pay and all you had to do is spend most of your time at sea, nights and weekends included.

Then came Viet Nam and we could sign up and get "Combat Pay", another $30 a month, why not. After that, the good folks of America said that we didn't have to pay Income Taxes as long as we were in the Combat Zone. WooHoo! Racking in the money now. We could really whoop it up in Port for two or three days now, as long as we spent the other 50 or 60 days in the Combat Zone.

After 18 months of deployment, we got "Arduous Duty Pay", don't remember how much that was, but had so much money in my pocket now, I didn't care and I didn't have to jump out of airplanes.

Thanks for the help YH.
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Old January 14, 2020, 11:21   #23
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Meant to add to thread that in the 1960's, very few people in America were paid less than a US Serviceman, but in most of the foreign countries of the Pacific we visited, we were filthy rich.

Some places had people come to haul our trash away free for the pickings.
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Old January 14, 2020, 11:24   #24
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money only has the worth people ascribe to it STG

yes in America two bucks don't buy much at all
lets work some numbers though:

that's roughly a hundred peso in the Philippines and will buy a kilo of fresh Chicken, fish, pork, etc at a rural market
that's 2.2 pounds of grub

Daughter had her birthday party last week
mom spent about twenty bones
two Lychee smoked pigs, cakes, all sorts of food
looking at the pix she sent, an easy hundred bucks in the States, likely more as much was catered

quite a bit of this disparity between economies has to do with directed costs folded into many things in America
FDA, EPA, other letters of the alphabet and of course transportation and taxes
so while two bucks is nothing here it's a fair bit of money elsewhere

another observation
in America our nations largest employer is the Federal Government
in the Philippines it's Dole Pineapple
Dole produces a product
the Federal government...well they produce nothing
in my opinion this is the root of it all in 1st world nations
it's not just the Safety Net of Welfarism, you must include ALL non producers

Now some of those are needed
for example we do need some police
does a town of one thousand need ten officers ?
nope
it's crazy, we as a nation operate with minimal public works crews which is a much more important workforce sector and we mostly pay them shit wages
I'd much rather have an extra man pushing snow during a blizzard than a pretty much needless extra cop
Same with sanitation workers

Many spots in the turd world you might have one cop for a thousand people
I'm just using LE as an example
Take Social Services. I think the County employs 12 case workers but the actual workforce is close to a hundred
Hospitals are insane. For every caregiver there are likely five paper pushers
Up into the 70s we had a Hospital in town. Recall it was like 75 beds
They had two gals in the office, everyone else were caregivers

Last time I was in the PI I wandered into the Hospital in General Santos
same deal as it used to be in America...tons of caregivers and hardly anyone in the business office

Just saying when your business model includes supporting a raft of non producers your product cost radically escalate.

this all boils back to why two bucks a day works in much of the world
well that and minimalist regulation
years ago a Red Chinese buddy pointed out that there was far less regulation in Communist China than America. This discovery seriously shocked him
He felt some of it was a very good thing but that much of it was choking our Nations growth as well by inflating the cost to do business which trickled down to the people themselves
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Old January 14, 2020, 11:26   #25
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Not my problem. I was born and raised in a rich country and I'm not going to apologize or feel guilty for it. I live within my means pay my bills and taxes, the rest of the world can change their lives or not.
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Old January 14, 2020, 11:47   #26
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Meant to add to thread that in the 1960's, very few people in America were paid less than a US Serviceman, but in most of the foreign countries of the Pacific we visited, we were filthy rich.

Some places had people come to haul our trash away free for the pickings.
Well room and board were folded into all that
Some Coal workers actually made less up into the sixties as they rented from the Company and were still being paid only in script redeemable at the company store
it was subsistence living at best

the trash deal
well America is extremely wasteful
some examples:

Back in the 80s I lived in a huge home with a mess of other University students
We had weekly keggers with upside down Pizza parties
know what upside down Pizza is ?
Well see right after a joint closed they would toss all the pizzas in the trash where University students snarfed them up quick

Steakhouses were soft targets too

Grocery Stores as well
hell even today the produce manager will occasionally give me a big ole' box of bruised fruit and veggies that was otherwise trash bound
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Old January 14, 2020, 11:54   #27
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As another former member of the "Two Bucks a day Club", actually $2.33, I can't say I'd recommend the lifestyle very highly. It did include room and board however. The "Room" included 30 other people that you got to know quite well. The "Board" was at times Chipped beef on toast and there's no way of telling how many you had to share that with.
Other times it was your very own C Rats that you didn't have to share with anyone unless you wanted to. MRE's weren't invented yet.

Jumping out of Aircraft, unless on fire, never appealed to me, but there was a thing called Sea Pay and all you had to do is spend most of your time at sea, nights and weekends included.

Then came Viet Nam and we could sign up and get "Combat Pay", another $30 a month, why not. After that, the good folks of America said that we didn't have to pay Income Taxes as long as we were in the Combat Zone. WooHoo! Racking in the money now. We could really whoop it up in Port for two or three days now, as long as we spent the other 50 or 60 days in the Combat Zone.

After 18 months of deployment, we got "Arduous Duty Pay", don't remember how much that was, but had so much money in my pocket now, I didn't care and I didn't have to jump out of airplanes.

Thanks for the help YH.

Only folks that lived through those times can understand them.
Someone recently was running their mouths about Nixon,,,and I smiled,,and said,,,I'd vote for him today,,,even though he's been long dead.
Nixon gave us all,,four or five pay raises in a month or two,,,maxed out what he could over and over to get us all out of poverty status.
As a young Sgt with a family,,,,my pay went up over what an E7 was making damn near overnight.
Made E6 shortly afterwards and never looked back.
A bunch of us from that time period were laughing,,about why so many of choose to stay out of the country in the 70's and 80's,,,and it was summed up in one word,,,,,,,black market.

We all somehow managed to survive,,,,thats all that matters.......
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Old January 14, 2020, 11:59   #28
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Meant to add to thread that in the 1960's, very few people in America were paid less than a US Serviceman, but in most of the foreign countries of the Pacific we visited, we were filthy rich.

Some places had people come to haul our trash away free for the pickings.
Nothing better than,,,,,,being 18 years old,,,a pocket full of money,,,no morals or values,,armed with a machine gun,,grenades,,and the rules did not apply to us.

We were alive back then,,,thats for damn sure.
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Old January 14, 2020, 12:33   #29
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The old saying "May you live in exciting times" applied for sure.

Always thought it was cool being able to get on the Net and have a couple Phantoms drop in to help with any concerns we might have.
Most troubles could be rectified with the application of automatic weapons and Gun Fire Support.

If the friggin' place woulda had Air Conditioning, it would have been more tolerable. It was not a good place for us northern Maine folks.
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Old January 14, 2020, 13:03   #30
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Not my problem. I was born and raised in a rich country and I'm not going to apologize or feel guilty for it. I live within my means pay my bills and taxes, the rest of the world can change their lives or not.
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Old January 14, 2020, 13:05   #31
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I'm trying to remember a parable here for some reason . . .

But then I realize that the orange farmer in the shithole doesn't have any oranges.

Suddenly, by this nation's graciousness the shithole people have oranges aplenty.

The farmer can't sell the oranges he doesn't have?

And now it is our fault?
Haiti doesn't have enough land and resources to support its population. And if it did, the current population probably lacks the wherewithal to run anything even close to a self-sufficient nation and engage in meaningful trade to shore up it's deficiencies.

It's that simple.

The same story for a lot of place.

OR, if they do have the resources, they have not advanced culturally enough to be able to take advantage of them.

Case in point - much of Africa is rich in resources, but none of them were tapped until the European colonists came in and saw the wealth, and exploited it and the people there.

Africans had the same opportunity but never advanced socially, culturally, to do so.
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Old January 14, 2020, 13:10   #32
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Not my problem. I was born and raised in a rich country and I'm not going to apologize or feel guilty for it. I live within my means pay my bills and taxes, the rest of the world can change their lives or not.
I was born in a great country because my ancestors and parents fought fair and square for a better life. They came to America to be AMERICANS and to be part of the values that made America the place to be. There's a reason my parents don't speak the languages of their parents...everyone wanted to be American so they kids learned English and only English.

They didn't come here to bring shitty values from shitty countries and get handouts.

I don't benefit from any goddamn privilege...my forefathers earned everything they got., and so have I.

We have nothing to apologize or feel guilty for !
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Old January 14, 2020, 13:26   #33
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The old saying "May you live in exciting times" applied for sure.

Always thought it was cool being able to get on the Net and have a couple Phantoms drop in to help with any concerns we might have.
Most troubles could be rectified with the application of automatic weapons and Gun Fire Support.

If the friggin' place woulda had Air Conditioning, it would have been more tolerable. It was not a good place for us northern Maine folks.
Nothing says raw power,,like an F4,,all dirty,,down low,,looking to kick ass and take scalps.

Heat and humidity for this old southern boy,,kicked my ass too.

BUFF's also were known to kick up a little dust,,,along with full sized trees and boulders.
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Old January 14, 2020, 14:32   #34
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DO we have many bleeding heart liberal nuts here that really GAF what those in the 3rd or 4th world live on or even how they choose to live be it on 2 bucks or 5 bucks a day.
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Old January 14, 2020, 14:55   #35
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Where do such impoverished people come from?
Warlords collecting taxes: either Privateers or 'Federal and "Legitimate" '...

Poverty like what you're describing was the norm in Western Europe, too, until the Black Death killed off a mountain of people 1348-1350. All of a sudden, "rents" of landholders (royalty, sorta...) were lowered significantly so that these Estates could attract workers (serfs) who once were required to work the lord's land in exchange for a tiny house of their own.

When there weren't enough serfs to go around, all of a sudden various landlords had to compete via price to 'attract' them to their ground: less days work per month, more cash (which was almost non-existent), more land to own (free-hold) for the serf - possibly based on number of years in the contract, etc.

The Renaissance was roughly coincident to this event, and had something to do with the philosophy of the 'elite' at the time regarding treatment of lower classes.

This ^ is going on in Africa and Mexico and other places, too: you're gonna pay the vig or you're not going to keep on keeping on.
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Old January 14, 2020, 16:01   #36
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How do they pay for their "obamacare" on $2 a day? After all,it's all the other countries that we are supposed to be more like,right?
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Old January 14, 2020, 16:02   #37
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No one living on $2/day has healthcare.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old January 14, 2020, 16:14   #38
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Warlords collecting taxes: either Privateers or 'Federal and "Legitimate" '...

Poverty like what you're describing was the norm in Western Europe, too, until the Black Death killed off a mountain of people 1348-1350. All of a sudden, "rents" of landholders (royalty, sorta...) were lowered significantly so that these Estates could attract workers (serfs) who once were required to work the lord's land in exchange for a tiny house of their own.

When there weren't enough serfs to go around, all of a sudden various landlords had to compete via price to 'attract' them to their ground: less days work per month, more cash (which was almost non-existent), more land to own (free-hold) for the serf - possibly based on number of years in the contract, etc.

The Renaissance was roughly coincident to this event, and had something to do with the philosophy of the 'elite' at the time regarding treatment of lower classes.

This ^ is going on in Africa and Mexico and other places, too: you're gonna pay the vig or you're not going to keep on keeping on.
I stayed away from much of that

take the Japans...
you have two, maybe three genetic groups

The most common were serfs
smaller peoples

then there was a merchant class

Past those, the warriors and many of them were six footers
different genetics and they were fed much better.

basic breeding.

Many years ago a friend adopted a baby from the Philippines
kid grew to nearly six two under an American diet
My daughter in Mindano is not my blood
she towers over her mother as I have given her that opportunity
mom is 4'10
Daughter is nearly six foot tall at 15
I made sure she was fed well, I wanted a bad ass bitch and that gurl is

mom was starved as a youngster
we grew daughter to potential
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Old January 14, 2020, 19:05   #39
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No one living on $2/day has healthcare.
Not as we all know it here,,,but medicine at some level,, is practiced everywhere.

Of course,,,some of these places,,viewed an 18/19 yr Army medic as some great healer of mythic proportions was kinda scary.
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Old January 15, 2020, 09:56   #40
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People moved across country during the 1930's to make $2 dollars a hour,,, $5 dollars would buy a weeks worth of groceries,,, you could get by on less if you breast fed,,, but for some reason that caused me to chase redheads .
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Old January 15, 2020, 10:51   #41
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A depiction of Martin's younger years.




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People moved across country during the 1930's to make $2 dollars a hour,,, $5 dollars would buy a weeks worth of groceries,,, you could get by on less if you breast fed,,, but for some reason that caused me to chase redheads .
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Old January 15, 2020, 14:27   #42
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A depiction of Martin's younger years.


That is just funny!!!!
Needed a good laugh this morning.
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Old January 16, 2020, 00:46   #43
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My earliest memory is of going to a free barn dance with my dad and going home with my mom,,, the cartoon reminded me of my dad.
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Old January 16, 2020, 00:49   #44
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My earliest memory is of going to a free barn dance with my dad and going home with my mom,,, the cartoon reminded me of my dad.
And some people believe that advancing age reduces memory.

Been known for young folks to make hay at a barn dance.
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Old January 16, 2020, 01:11   #45
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Someone recently was running their mouths about Nixon
He did nothing wrong and it was his patriotic duty to spy on the dimwitz.
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Old January 16, 2020, 04:37   #46
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My recruit pay in the USMC was $50, they withheld $2 or a bucket, soap and scrub brush,,, after rifle qualification I was paid a extra $4,,,every pay day they ask for donations for the big Iwo Jima Marine memorial,,, shit details were given to the stingy,,, it cost about $1.25 at .25 cents a pitcher to get a 3.2 beer buzz on,,, the fist fights were mostly free, so I helped myself like any healthy 17 year old would,,, combat pay was $50,,, I was rollin' in doe, and no redheads to spend it on.
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Old January 16, 2020, 08:50   #47
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My earliest memory is of going to a free barn dance with my dad and going home with my mom,,, the cartoon reminded me of my dad.
Just remember, every one of us here was “the strongest swimmer”
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Old January 16, 2020, 09:07   #48
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My recruit pay in the USMC was $50, they withheld $2 or a bucket, soap and scrub brush,,, after rifle qualification I was paid a extra $4,,,every pay day they ask for donations for the big Iwo Jima Marine memorial,,, shit details were given to the stingy,,, it cost about $1.25 at .25 cents a pitcher to get a 3.2 beer buzz on,,, the fist fights were mostly free, so I helped myself like any healthy 17 year old would,,, combat pay was $50,,, I was rollin' in doe, and no redheads to spend it on.
A buddy and I got to Fort Bragg right after jump school,,a couple days before payday and on payday,,,learned first hand what you say above,,about "donations",,,1st Sgt fund,,CO fund,,division fund,,OWC fund,,poor puppies and widowed red headed mothers funds,,,etc.

Friends mom was a Yankee bank president,, and she told us about a brand new thing called "Direct Deposit".

We signed up,,,got a checking account,,and Direct Deposit.

When the "pay line is now open" shout went out,,,we went to PX.

Direct deposit pretty much ended the legalized shakedown on payday and pissed off all the lifers.
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Old January 16, 2020, 09:15   #49
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I have friends that make under $2 day. No running water or toilet in the house. No healthcare insurance.

Just a beautiful breeze blowing through the home all night. Fresh fish, fruits, vegetables. Free and easy. Time with the family. No stress.

They call it quality of life and wouldn’t trade places with me.
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Old January 16, 2020, 11:57   #50
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I have friends that make under $2 day. No running water or toilet in the house. No healthcare insurance.

Just a beautiful breeze blowing through the home all night. Fresh fish, fruits, vegetables. Free and easy. Time with the family. No stress.

They call it quality of life and wouldn’t trade places with me.

Most people on the treadmill frantically chasing the dream of buying the latest mass marketed corporate crap would never believe that.




..............juanni
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