The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapons Discussion > Curios & Relics

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 10, 2020, 16:40   #1
yovinny
Old Fart
Platinum Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,676
Unfired 1941 Mauser Obendorf

This is a K98k built by Mauser Obendorf for the Portugese in 1941.
Story says that because of the war these were not delivered to Portugal, but instead diverted to German service and warehoused, where then remained undelivered throughout the war.
In any case or story, it's a 100% perfect, unmolested and unfired example of the 1941 German K98k. Correct in all aspects and numbered parts, Nazi stampings, proofs and eagle swastikas.
Only differences being the addition of the Portugese crest on the receiver ring and stock, and the commercial type full factory roll marking instead of just the German wartime "Mod. 98"

These only rarely come up for sale and I'm wondering what the best place to sell this would be ?
GB, Some particular Auction, or ??

TIA
Cheers, YV









yovinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10, 2020, 17:24   #2
K. Funk
Retired Metallurgist
Platinum Contributor
 
K. Funk's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 38
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 5,708
Beautiful rifle. Tough call on where to sell. A big auction like Rock Island will get exposure and bring top dollar, but you will give back 20-30% to the house. If you know the true market value, you can float it on Gunbroker where you will only pay about 3% in fees. The rifle is what it is, not much opportunity for a fake, so it will not be hard to present it for what it is on Gunbroker.

krf
__________________
The Mason-Dixon FAL Association wants YOU!! Ask me for details.

You never know what's going on inside the mind of a crazy man!!

Check out username kandainv on Gunbroker; always some neat stuff!!
FYB!!!!
K. Funk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10, 2020, 19:37   #3
skinnydash
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 79317
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: St Petersburg FL
Posts: 238
Almost bought one of those 30 years ago...still think about it occasionally and kick myself for not buying.
skinnydash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10, 2020, 19:52   #4
gew98
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 32830
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: away from taxation without representation , Kentucky !.
Posts: 2,279
These are every bit as gorgeous as the standard modell era 98's. These actually were imported from Portugal. These imports never saw german service. The very few that got diverted to the Wehrmacht got used and scarce to find one of the actual german used portugese contract rifles in matching let alone super condition as the wharehoused portugese imports.
Have seen a couple that some shyster tried to obliterate/hide import marks to claim bringback status for more $$$. I recall there were used , well used and mismatches as well when these were imported. A load of Portugese MG34 stuff came in at the same time then too.
__________________
The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
Winston Churchill

1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
gew98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10, 2020, 20:28   #5
TerryN
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 55
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Yuma, AZ
Posts: 1,931
A very nice old Mauser! I would recommend against being in a hurry to sell it if you list it on GunBroker or comparable. You doubtless already know this, but you will have to wait for the right buyer, who realizes what the rifle represents - and it's value to come along/

GLWS!
__________________
This ain't New Zealand. Just saying.
TerryN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10, 2020, 21:24   #6
Dazed and Confused
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 68257
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the Left Coast
Posts: 476
Amazing piece of history there!

GLWS and take your time.
__________________
"The mark of a true craftsman is not how well he applies his craft... but.... how well he hides his mistakes!" JKB 1986
Dazed and Confused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10, 2020, 22:46   #7
yovinny
Old Fart
Platinum Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,676
If you want to join me for a cry,,,, I'll tell you it originally had a matching, like numbered bayonet too.
Guy I got it from 20yrs ago was an old friend who was moving to NC and needed to find it in his packed stuff and ship it to me.
Found out 6 months later he passed on and his daughter had everything he owned moved out and auctioned off....
yovinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11, 2020, 04:24   #8
paulo
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 11856
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: East Troy Wisconsin
Posts: 598
Simpsons in Illinois may do an appraisal for a fee of course. May be an option for selling as well. Very nice rifle.
paulo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 11, 2020, 04:34   #9
VALMET
Curio & Relic
Bronze Contributor
 
VALMET's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1826
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 3,371
That is a truly amazing piece. +1 for Simpsons as far as appraisal is concerned.
__________________
"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is a symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell, 1940.

"Dammit Smithers this is brain surgery, not rocket science. Now hand me that ice-cream scoop! -C. Montgomery Burns
VALMET is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 11, 2020, 09:12   #10
yovinny
Old Fart
Platinum Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,676
I know Simpsons,,lived an hr away and purchased a few things from them years ago.
I have zero need for any service from them.
A simple internet search will tell you these rifles in unfired perfect condition have brought 4-4.5k in the recent past.
yovinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11, 2020, 22:13   #11
hansellhd
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 31152
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by gew98 View Post
These are every bit as gorgeous as the standard modell era 98's. These actually were imported from Portugal. These imports never saw german service. The very few that got diverted to the Wehrmacht got used and scarce to find one of the actual german used portugese contract rifles in matching let alone super condition as the wharehoused portugese imports.
Have seen a couple that some shyster tried to obliterate/hide import marks to claim bringback status for more $$$. I recall there were used , well used and mismatches as well when these were imported. A load of Portugese MG34 stuff came in at the same time then too.
They were Exported to Portugal from NAZI Germany. Some like this one were never exported and remained behind for German service. Obviously this one never saw service.

BTW wonderful rifle op. If I were selling it I would stick it on GB and start bidding at 3K with a buy now of 4.5K. You don't need to pay/use Simpsons for anything,
sell it yourself.
__________________
HDH.

Last edited by hansellhd; March 11, 2020 at 22:25.
hansellhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 03:43   #12
yovinny
Old Fart
Platinum Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,676
I found a few sold 4-4.5k about 4-8 years ago, so Im going to start it at 4.5k.
That dosent include the 5k one in 2016 or the 8.6k one at rock island more recently,,,but those both had the bayonet too.
Again, this is an unissued and unfired example,,most arent and seem to bring about 3k.
yovinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 07:55   #13
seasmoke
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 71770
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 44 North
Posts: 114
Beautiful!! GLWS
seasmoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 18:38   #14
gew98
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 32830
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: away from taxation without representation , Kentucky !.
Posts: 2,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansellhd View Post
They were Exported to Portugal from NAZI Germany. Some like this one were never exported and remained behind for German service. Obviously this one never saw service.

BTW wonderful rifle op. If I were selling it I would stick it on GB and start bidding at 3K with a buy now of 4.5K. You don't need to pay/use Simpsons for anything,
sell it yourself.
Sorry , But I was neck deep in 98k collecting when they were imported. These were not in the rear with the gear found. They were imported from Portugal....buy the gun and not the story bro. A huge amount of what Portugal got from Germany during WW2 was used very little if at all. Dig out those shotgun news adverts for these...NONE state "found in European wharehouse" , as NONE were. Plus the fact it had a contract matching bayonet proves it was delivered to Portugal. Jeez .... no wonderI got tired of 98k collecting with all the newb bad info treated like biblical stories.
__________________
The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
Winston Churchill

1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
gew98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 19:14   #15
yovinny
Old Fart
Platinum Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by gew98 View Post
Sorry , But I was neck deep in 98k collecting when they were imported. These were not in the rear with the gear found. They were imported from Portugal....buy the gun and not the story bro. A huge amount of what Portugal got from Germany during WW2 was used very little if at all. Dig out those shotgun news adverts for these...NONE state "found in European wharehouse" , as NONE were. Plus the fact it had a contract matching bayonet proves it was delivered to Portugal. Jeez .... no wonderI got tired of 98k collecting with all the newb bad info treated like biblical stories.
I cant say one way or the other,,,,dosent effect me either way.

BUT,,,If you can whip up some SGN add's from the 60's....PLEASE SHARE !!!
yovinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 19:34   #16
Chester Nimitz
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 28033
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 201
I had one from a company that advertised them in the SGN back in the 1990's. Really loved that rifle. Wish I bought ten because they were $385.00 each.
Chester Nimitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 19:40   #17
yovinny
Old Fart
Platinum Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chester Nimitz View Post
I had one from a company that advertised them in the SGN back in the 1990's. Really loved that rifle. Wish I bought ten because they were $385.00 each.
No offense, but that isent this...
Might be the same type rifle,,,but completely different.
Those were used rifles, available in different grades and ALL import stamped.
This is an unissued, unfired and non import marked specemin,,,these came in pre 68'.
yovinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 19:42   #18
VALMET
Curio & Relic
Bronze Contributor
 
VALMET's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1826
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 3,371
Here’s one that sold recently that isn’t quite as nice as yours...

https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...-contract.html
__________________
"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is a symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell, 1940.

"Dammit Smithers this is brain surgery, not rocket science. Now hand me that ice-cream scoop! -C. Montgomery Burns
VALMET is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 19:46   #19
Chester Nimitz
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 28033
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 201
No Offense taken, but my rifle was lightly used and looked identical to this one. Whether or not it had import marks, hard to say. If it was, It was done well. The one I had came out of a crate I suspect were in the USA a long time. Sold it for real good wood....
Chester Nimitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 19:58   #20
yovinny
Old Fart
Platinum Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,676
Heres another...with bayo though.

https://www.icollector.com/Outstandi...ling_i15827622

One brought 5k at rock island 2016 iirc.
Another brought 8.6k last year at rock island,,,but I cant seem to find them now.
Used excellent ones can be had for about 3k.
yovinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12, 2020, 20:10   #21
yovinny
Old Fart
Platinum Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,676
Heres what an unfired bolt face looks like....and another stock swastika..



yovinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13, 2020, 18:15   #22
gew98
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 32830
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: away from taxation without representation , Kentucky !.
Posts: 2,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by yovinny View Post
Heres what an unfired bolt face looks like....and another stock swastika..



These are about the best wartime quality. Being made for the Portugese contract Oberndorf did not let up on the fit or finish. The reason they have typical german WaA proofs is it was simply easier to let the contract 98k's go through their standard process of inspection(s) before export to Portugal. Really the only prettier 98 mauser would be a standard modell in like condition or a banner K in same condition - which such animals are not easily found these days. Kinda wish I had kept the SM's and the banner K I had...man they were gorgeous.
__________________
The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
Winston Churchill

1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
gew98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13, 2020, 18:34   #23
hansellhd
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 31152
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by gew98 View Post
Sorry , But I was neck deep in 98k collecting when they were imported. These were not in the rear with the gear found. They were imported from Portugal....buy the gun and not the story bro. A huge amount of what Portugal got from Germany during WW2 was used very little if at all. Dig out those shotgun news adverts for these...NONE state "found in European wharehouse" , as NONE were. Plus the fact it had a contract matching bayonet proves it was delivered to Portugal. Jeez .... no wonderI got tired of 98k collecting with all the newb bad info treated like biblical stories.
My point is the rifle itself was manufactured in Germay, that's all. If this one came out of Port. to the U.S. that's fine by me and makes perfect sense.

I thought you were saying these rifles were manufactured in Portugal..............Sorry.
__________________
HDH.

Last edited by hansellhd; March 13, 2020 at 18:41.
hansellhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14, 2020, 16:17   #24
1911Ron
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17513
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ft Mudge Az
Posts: 1,939
Beautiful Rifle!
__________________
FAL convert.
"Too old to fight, too slow to run, but I can still shoot pretty good!"
1911Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14, 2020, 19:06   #25
enbloc8
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 51665
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,130
The Portuguese were using these rifles into the 1960s, even the early 70s in their colonies. If you look at early movies of the Colonial War in Africa, there's plenty of these Mausers to be seen.

I suspect the reason they're so rare over here is that, because of when they were released (before the import laws were changed in the mid-80s), many of them went to Canada and Australia instead of the US.
enbloc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14, 2020, 19:22   #26
enbloc8
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 51665
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,130
Supposedly the rifles diverted from the 1941 production were replaced later with standard 98K rifles sent to Portugal. Wonder if there's any way to identify those?
enbloc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15, 2020, 13:47   #27
hansellhd
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 31152
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by enbloc8 View Post
Supposedly the rifles diverted from the 1941 production were replaced later with standard 98K rifles sent to Portugal. Wonder if there's any way to identify those?
After the German invasion of Russia all K98K production went to the German Army including what was left of the Port. production.

My Russian Capture Port. K98K









This one came from Empire Arms back in 06 for $350.00. If I sold it today I would be asking $1000.00 for it.
__________________
HDH.

Last edited by hansellhd; March 15, 2020 at 13:52.
hansellhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15, 2020, 19:18   #28
yovinny
Old Fart
Platinum Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,676
Interesting...yours has an additional stock cross bolt..
Did they change the stocks or just sand the stampings off ? Is it still all matching otherwise ?

Good thing they didnt grind the crest off the receiver...
yovinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15, 2020, 22:37   #29
enbloc8
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 51665
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansellhd View Post
After the German invasion of Russia all K98K production went to the German Army including what was left of the Port. production.

My Russian Capture Port. K98K









This one came from Empire Arms back in 06 for $350.00. If I sold it today I would be asking $1000.00 for it.
I remember seeing a 1941 Port RC rifle on GB within the last 18 months.
enbloc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 17, 2020, 23:27   #30
hansellhd
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 31152
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by yovinny View Post
Interesting...yours has an additional stock cross bolt..
Did they change the stocks or just sand the stampings off ? Is it still all matching otherwise ?

Good thing they didnt grind the crest off the receiver...
It's a complete mix master. Russians tore down all of these K98's and rebuilt them with non matching parts, then stashed away for WW3.
__________________
HDH.
hansellhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2019 The FAL Files