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Old April 08, 2020, 22:06   #1
Near Sighted Sniper
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T91 upper arriving tomorrow...

So I ordered one of the Wolf T91 uppers from Atlantic Firearms, got a FedEx tracking # today saying that it'll be here tomorrow. I'm a little excited, I'm not expecting this rifle to be the best thing since sliced bread but it's different & sometimes different is all you need to scratch an itch. I'm gonna try to get one of the lowers that have Taiwanese markings eventually, but for now I'll use a spikes or psa lower. I'm thinking about putting my last Larue trigger in it & using either a VLTOR, BCM SOPMOD or Magpul UBR stock on it. I have all 3 on hand, I'm gonna see which one looks best & more importantly feels best. Last I'm gonna top it off with an ACOG. I think it's gonna be one kick ass rifle.
Do any of you guys out there have a T91 clone? I would love to see some pics of how you guys built yours up if you do have one.

I'll post a pic or 2 once it's complete.
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Originally said by hkshooter…
"Youth has it's advantages but having money isn't usually one of them."

Anonymous
The FAL is not a "platform".
It is a lady-lookin' foreign made collection of sexy Belgian curves that intimidates the shit out of today's Pajama-boy males.

It's not an Assault Rifle, it a Sport Utility Rifle.
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Old April 09, 2020, 11:16   #2
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Have a pair of AR57 5.7×28 uppers with the 8" barrel option ordered for wife a long time ago. Recently saw the CMMG 5.7x28mm kit with three 40 round magazines that works more like an AR 15 versus an FN top feed, bottom eject upper on AR lower. Like I need another totally proprietary animal but found a private purchase, never fired 16" unit cheap and plan to chop the barrel at 10" to 12" and pin a suppressor on it for a single stamp SBR rather than 8" 5.7 AR pistol. The wife is much more familiar with a standard AR configuration and operates it intuitively. Going to let her play with the CMMG upper then if she prefers it will look for another used 16" and chop then set up as pistol for quick change can for a second unit.

Most likely will chop at 11", then with can am going to use, will come up to 17" OAL barrel length. Have always felt the 8" AR57 uppers was giving up a bit too much velocity and potential accuracy. Will run the new to me upper over chronograph at 16" before cut barrel then compare 11" with pinned can to 8" AR57s with quick change cans. Upper was purchased with the three magazine kit plus two additional spares. Wife's bone disease seems to be holding steady with new med ($3,000 per month) but she has torn both shoulders making her 10.5" 6.8 spc II piston drive "pistol" painful to fire and has taken one of my binary 10.5" 5.56 pinned suppressor upper builds which am not comfortable with it being in truck lock too much plus it's not covered as pistol with CCW out of state.

If she prefers the CMMG upper with traditional AR function and it proves reliable will chop a second at ~11" and configure as pistol with quick change can adapter for her truck gun till we see how well her shoulders heal. Rather her have a 5.7×28 AR in truck than just a pair of Walther PK 380 pistols or accidently carry the suppressed 5.56 into edge of NC or to SC without thought. Plus all the recoil can take off her recently damaged right shoulder will help her train without pain thus be better prepared under stress. So it's oddball AR upper month apparently.
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Old April 09, 2020, 11:29   #3
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I did one in 14.5 length barrel and like it a lot

Have a spare 80% Taiwan lower in excess of my needs as well




IMG_3471.jpg
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Old April 09, 2020, 15:44   #4
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I have two T91 uppers on Anderson lowers...

My experience has been less than happy with the American contribution to a superior Taiwanese design. I refer to the uppers and not the fine Anderson lowers...

There is a thread here about all this, buried somewhere if anyone can get the search function to function...

Forrest
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Old April 09, 2020, 16:24   #5
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https://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442471
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Old April 09, 2020, 17:07   #6
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Thanks Troy, good read. I’m hoping that it groups well or at least is ok in the accuracy dept. On a side note it DID NOT arrive today. I guess that FedEx is behind due to Corona. Maybe tomorrow. Still don’t know which stock I’m gonna use. I’m leaning towards the UBR though.

Burtman let me know if you wanna sell that lower
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Originally said by hkshooter…
"Youth has it's advantages but having money isn't usually one of them."

Anonymous
The FAL is not a "platform".
It is a lady-lookin' foreign made collection of sexy Belgian curves that intimidates the shit out of today's Pajama-boy males.

It's not an Assault Rifle, it a Sport Utility Rifle.
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Old April 09, 2020, 17:26   #7
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Originally Posted by Near Sighted Sniper View Post
Thanks Troy, good read. I’m hoping that it groups well or at least is ok in the accuracy dept. On a side note it DID NOT arrive today. I guess that FedEx is behind due to Corona. Maybe tomorrow. Still don’t know which stock I’m gonna use. I’m leaning towards the UBR though.

Burtman let me know if you wanna sell that lower
Sure.
I was intrigued by these when they were first announced. Evidently not very much because I forgot all about them until I saw your thread today.
Hearing of the QC failures is disappointing and I'm not much for super specialized proprietary parts, which something as rare as original T91 parts should be considered. So I never considered these anything more than cool range toys. Good luck with yours, I really hope they are debugged and you get a good one.
Me? If I wanted a piston gun and couldn't afford an HK I'd get a woo. Rock solid.
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Old April 09, 2020, 18:32   #8
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Thanks...

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Old April 09, 2020, 19:06   #9
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Sure.
(Trim)
Me? If I wanted a piston gun and couldn't afford an HK I'd get a woo. Rock solid.
I just order up more Superlative Arms piston kits if need a piston AR which is rare. Only when I build 10.5" or shorter barrels do I feel the need to complicate the proven direct impingement design.
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Old April 09, 2020, 20:00   #10
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Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
I just order up more Superlative Arms piston kits if need a piston AR which is rare. Only when I build 10.5" or shorter barrels do I feel the need to complicate the proven direct impingement design.
Like it or not and many do not like it (direct impingement is a maintenance hog) - Straight up.
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Old April 09, 2020, 20:07   #11
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Like it or not and many do not like it (direct impingement is a maintenance hog) - Straight up.
This is one of those "less filling, tastes great" arguments that's been going on forever. DI gets dirty, no argument there. I'd hardly call it a maintenance hog.

Define "maintenance hog". Maybe that will help with the discussion.
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Old April 09, 2020, 20:22   #12
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I have ZERO problems with DI guns, I just wanted something different.

And BTW a Woo is DEFINITELY on the list of rifles to buy in 2020
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Originally said by hkshooter…
"Youth has it's advantages but having money isn't usually one of them."

Anonymous
The FAL is not a "platform".
It is a lady-lookin' foreign made collection of sexy Belgian curves that intimidates the shit out of today's Pajama-boy males.

It's not an Assault Rifle, it a Sport Utility Rifle.
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Old April 09, 2020, 20:29   #13
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I have ZERO problems with DI guns, I just wanted something different.

And BTW a Woo is DEFINITELY on the list of rifles to buy in 2020
That what I find neat about the T91. Different.

I've never wanted a Woo but it's always in the back of my mind as a possible pick up should I stumble across the right deal someday. I knew a guy who had one and I've read about plenty. They are solid rifles.
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Old April 09, 2020, 21:00   #14
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Looking forward to a report. I've thought about one of these for a while. Intersting custom markings out there for %80 lowers as well:

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Old April 09, 2020, 21:19   #15
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The O.P. is right should keep it on topic

Before I stumbled into Huey I was considering the Following, If one can pull a Wolf A1 upper out of the box and look down the top of the upper and see if the FSB is canted consider that ? If you are going to run a optic or scope and not care about BIUS than continue on and see if your happy ? - Canted FSB is a real thing with these uppers in the past and the civilian FSB from wolf really doesn't work all that well with anything AR related as a Rear sight.

You can change around front sight posts however you may not be happy with the front sight picture, However the T91 FSB from T91Tactical.com along with the T91 rear sight work well as they are mated factory parts

Second issue would be Loose barrel extensions and it is also a real thing in this day of nitride finishes. Not specific to the T91 this process getting into the threads and affecting torque values is also a real thing.

As a new wolf Owner You can likely count on a fellow named Steve that is in Tennessee and wolf will provide you with his contact info should you need warranty service and he does take care of the customer as he has taken care of my problems and my rifle now runs without issue and is very enjoyable.
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Old April 09, 2020, 23:53   #16
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I have fired thousands of rounds through DI AR 15s without cleaning or failures to feed, fire or extract. That said with pistol length gas systems, especially combined with suppressor use then yes, DI will have fouling issues especially with cheap ammo. Why I build most of my AR pistols with Superlative Arms Bleed Off piston drive systems. No gas to blow back down a tube where port is only four inches from the receiver. My 10.5" pinned suppressor single stamp SBRs with carbine gas get a mix of DI and piston kits. The pinned suppressor helps mitigate the short dwell time but 3.5" is just enough dwell to build them reliable with proper port size.

A lot of my 10.5" and 11.5" carbine length builds are DI and have a mix of standard F Front Sight Blocks and Superlative Arms Bleed Off DI gas blocks. The amount of crap in upper considering an equal amount of same ammo, the carbine length gas gun with bleed off block will be much cleaner than F DI front sight block. But evem my carbine length (7" from port to receiver) DI builds have little to no function issues from blow back gas even with standard gas blocks but I don't use crap ammo.

Some examples of the crap puked out of front of a Superlative Bleed Off gas block:





"Average" across a range of powders is 50,000 psi at a pistol length gas port. Carbine length and pressure has dropped to 33,000 psi, mid length is 27,000 psi and rifle length is 22,000 psi approximate. The pressure curve varies with powder and some will peak right at a pistol length port and others closer to carbine port thus have excessive amount of crap blowing back down tube. I actually use a chart that shows peak pressure curve of most powders and try to use appropriate powder for gas length ammo is most likely used in. I know all but two of my 458 SOCOMs have pistol length gas so use powders that have a very early peak closer to chamber than port. CFE223 peaks right at 7" which is dangerous when loading chart topping loads for a carbine length gas system. This is another reason for understanding more than chart "maximum charge".

Not chart I use as in a $200 per copy ballistics book and book says contact author before reprinting any part of this book. So will use the free Internet version.



For 7.5" to 9.5" use pistol and deal with a lot of dwell time on the 9.5" tube. 10.5" to 12.5" I use carbine and deal with short dwell on 10.5" one way or another but 3" of dwell is workable. 13.7" to 16" use mid then 16" to 20" get rifle gas and 16" tubes sometimes just have to deal with where whoever profiled located port but avoid 16" and carbine gas personally. Past 20" use rifle +1", rifle +2" and rifle +3" based on cartridge, pressure curve and barrel length. I can build an 8.5" DI pistol length gas and not have fouling issues but in 5.56 would drop a piston kit in and 458 SOCOM run DI as will be running subsonic 85% of time and choosing a powder that works as load all my 458 subs myself. Nothing shoots nicer than a 26" barrel with rifle +2" or +3".

What I have found wrenching on my and others uppers plus entire rifles for an 07 SOT gun shop is quite often the amount of crap in an AR upper is directly proportional to the quality of ammo used in it and port length. People will bring in rifles totally seized up with stuck case and story of "had fired a couple hundred rounds and it just locked up, tried to cycle it and something broke". Quite often what broke was their extractor when tried to pogo a stuck steel case Tulammo round. Often they have also bent their charging handle in the effort as well. I could have likely run 1,000 rounds of Lake City without cleanimg through same rifle without issue.

The cheapest ammo I use (store/Internet purchased) is Lake City M193. No PPU, European NATO or Chinese Wolf/Tula/Brown Bear/etc and especially Norinco. While most Chinese is underpowered and nasty burning Norinco has a reputation for being way hot and overpressure but not much left in U.S. I have a case of the yellow box Norinco M193 in brass cases but saw so many set back in case during firing, undersize projectiles, pierced primers hAve never opened the case and would not sell it to someone that may use it. Most of my 5.56 handloads use Varget, AA2230, IMR 4895, H335, Reloader 15 and some others but I DO NOT USE CFE 223 because of its pressure curve and peak pressure point. Many use it with success and good on them, it has given me problems and gave away a half used pound open container and sealed pound to guy who claimed to like it.

If your DI AR has mid or rifle length gas and having issues with fouling from blow back it's an ammo issue not a design issue. I had never intended to build an AR pistol or piston drive AR but when discovered my CCW allowed me to carry a loaded AR pistol in almost every state I frequent suddenly owned a dozen and went through every combination of cartridge, parts and lengths to determine a carbine length 10.5" piston drive 6.8 did everything I needed except for subsonic which use 458 SOCOM to cover. Now have about 15 pistols and building my fourth 10.5" 6.8 spc II piston drive now as my favorite combination.
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Old April 10, 2020, 01:37   #17
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The O.P. is right should keep it on topic
Or not...

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Old April 10, 2020, 07:28   #18
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Or not...

Forrest


I don't recall reading or rereading anything form the OP about off topic but whatever. He even joined in about the woo.
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Old April 10, 2020, 10:25   #19
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I recall reading or rereading anything form the OP about off topic but whatever. He even joined in about the woo.
Then you are correct and I am in error. Perhaps it was just I that wanted to stay on topic
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Old April 10, 2020, 12:41   #20
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Then you are correct and I am in error. Perhaps it was just I that wanted to stay on topic
I was not really referring to you...

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Old April 10, 2020, 12:52   #21
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I was not really referring to you...

Forrest
Sheepishly raises hand from back row of the classroom...
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Old April 10, 2020, 13:03   #22
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Sheepishly raises hand from back row of the classroom...


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Old April 10, 2020, 13:06   #23
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So I ordered one of the Wolf T91 uppers from Atlantic Firearms, got a FedEx tracking # today saying that it'll be here tomorrow. I'm a little excited, I'm not expecting this rifle to be the best thing since sliced bread but it's different & sometimes different is all you need to scratch an itch. I'm gonna try to get one of the lowers that have Taiwanese markings eventually, but for now I'll use a spikes or psa lower. I'm thinking about putting my last Larue trigger in it & using either a VLTOR, BCM SOPMOD or Magpul UBR stock on it. I have all 3 on hand, I'm gonna see which one looks best & more importantly feels best. Last I'm gonna top it off with an ACOG. I think it's gonna be one kick ass rifle.
Do any of you guys out there have a T91 clone? I would love to see some pics of how you guys built yours up if you do have one.

I'll post a pic or 2 once it's complete.
By the way, I've failed to say that I hope you have great luck with your T91 upper and have great fun with it.

I am very much a fan of the design...

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Old April 10, 2020, 16:31   #24
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Thanks Troy, good read. I’m hoping that it groups well or at least is ok in the accuracy dept. On a side note it DID NOT arrive today. I guess that FedEx is behind due to Corona. Maybe tomorrow.
Beware the USPS distribution center on Lindbergh BLVD.

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Old April 10, 2020, 16:49   #25
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Oh hell no!!! I stay far away from that HOOD.
Way too many people get shot in West Philly!!!
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Originally said by hkshooter…
"Youth has it's advantages but having money isn't usually one of them."

Anonymous
The FAL is not a "platform".
It is a lady-lookin' foreign made collection of sexy Belgian curves that intimidates the shit out of today's Pajama-boy males.

It's not an Assault Rifle, it a Sport Utility Rifle.
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Old April 14, 2020, 19:07   #26
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Well, FedEx messed up & they delivered 2 days later than projected. No big deal though, the thing looks REAL nice, bluing is near perfect, bore is bright & shiny & the upper itself fit's nice & snug on a PSA lower. I threw a cheap carry handle on it for the time being & it looks pretty sharp, I absolutely LOVE the handguards, they feel dam near perfect. Now for the bad... no fault of Wolf though, I'm not gonna be able to shoot the dam thing for God knows how long as my range is CLOSED!!!! So I guess the performance report will have to wait, screw you Corona Virus!!! I'm gonna hold off on buying that ACOG I had planned to put on it just until I see how well this upper works. I decided to go with the BCM SOPMOD stock but that might change once I get her out & shoot it.
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Originally said by hkshooter…
"Youth has it's advantages but having money isn't usually one of them."

Anonymous
The FAL is not a "platform".
It is a lady-lookin' foreign made collection of sexy Belgian curves that intimidates the shit out of today's Pajama-boy males.

It's not an Assault Rifle, it a Sport Utility Rifle.
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Old April 14, 2020, 19:11   #27
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Congrads hope it works out nicely for you
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Old April 14, 2020, 21:08   #28
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Congrads hope it works out nicely for you
Yup...

As do I...

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Old April 15, 2020, 12:15   #29
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Hate you can't play with the new toy but glad it arrived. FedEx Express is fine to me but over 70% of packages sent FedEx Ground never get delivered and tagged RTS. (Return to sender) All ground packages go through the Athens hub which is 84 miles from my parking lot. The driver for my route is private contractor and only comes to Mayberry when has several packages, won't drive all the way if mine is only one on truck. Sits on truck three days and is automatically sent back as he marks he attempted delivery every day but may have tried once after 5 pm. They automatically send it back and we start over. Now dispatcher calls me when an RTS package hits her terminal but unless it's worth 170 mile round trip and half a days time I let it go back and tell vendor "told you so, now try UPS".

My closest local range was closed for six months for upgrades to facilities and was worth the wait till they closed up for Chinese Flu almost immediately after finishing. Luckily have 75 yards in back yard with three bullet traps for up to 7.62×39 and two back stops that will stop any rifle but 7.62×51 suppressed is my personal rule. 85% of shooting in back yard is suppressed as a courtesy to neighbors but since they do shoot either side of me during middle of day will shoot unsuppressed to test a new build or wife to get her practice in. Do you have room for a trap? Or do you live in super sensitive area?

Great thing about traps learned when built my indoor range at work can recover 95% of lead to go back in the pot to be recast. 160 grain gas check cast 7.62×39 is all my indoor traps will handle so most rifle training indoors is done at 60 feet with 10/22 match rifles but do warm up the shop SKSs on occasion. Concrete walls hold a lot of noise in from neighbors even noticing. Local gun club is open but the cost is more than I am willing to pay for max 200 yards. Can shoot weekend tournaments and go once or twice a month as a guest for cost of registration at club tournaments. Hope you get to shoot it soon and it runs like a sewing machine, or did I mean like an AK...
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A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
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Old April 15, 2020, 22:56   #30
Near Sighted Sniper
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FALaholic #: 536
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Phila,Pa
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Thanks guys, I'll give a full range report with pics once things normalize.
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Originally said by hkshooter…
"Youth has it's advantages but having money isn't usually one of them."

Anonymous
The FAL is not a "platform".
It is a lady-lookin' foreign made collection of sexy Belgian curves that intimidates the shit out of today's Pajama-boy males.

It's not an Assault Rifle, it a Sport Utility Rifle.
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