The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapon Specific Forums > The Shotgun Files

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old August 28, 2019, 19:34   #1
crabcatcher
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 80583
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: shallotte, nc
Posts: 236
Winchester model 97 trench gun question

Hello all. I came across a model 97 trench gun at my local gun shop and I am very interested in purchasing it. I have some issues with it though. The serial number on the barrel and the receiver don't match but are very close. They are both in the correct range for the ww2 trench gun and only about 4k apart. The bayo lug assembly is present but the heat shield was removed. You can plainly see a farmer tan where the shield was. It was probably removed by a police dept sometime ago. My main issue is this, the barrel has the bomb ordinance mark on it. But the receiver does not have the US marking or the bomb mark even though it is right in the middle of the correct range. The finish on the gun is poor but if correct, the price is right and I would like to add it to my collection. Can any of you give me some clarity on this lack of markings and if it was ever normal. The barrel and rec look to have been "married" for a long time and the patina is the same all over the gun. I can add photos tomorrow if that will give further clarity but the main question is about the lack of markings on rec, Thanks in advance for any and all replies.

Eric
crabcatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29, 2019, 05:46   #2
yovinny
Uneducated NYC Boy
Silver Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,290
Missmatched could mean almost anything,,,commercial guns were available within the same range.

What about the butt stock proofing and sling mount,, missing also ?

The barrel is correct length, marked 'cyl' and has no hole for a front bead ?

You have a bayo lug but no heat shield ?
The bayo lug is part of the heat shield. Are you saying they removed it, cut the shield off and reinstalled just the bayo mount ?

Pics would help a whole lot...
yovinny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 29, 2019, 08:04   #3
MAINER
Old Salt
Bronze Contributor
 
MAINER's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 18465
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 9,837
I remember seeing 97 Win "Genuine US Military Trench gun parts and assembly's" for sale a few eons ago. Numrich, I believe. Any chance this is such a conversion?

My old shooting buddy in those days lusted after these parts for his old 97 commercial shotty. He gave it up when a Rem/Rand 1911 was offered to him for $40 instead.
__________________
Lord, keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
MAINER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29, 2019, 17:03   #4
crabcatcher
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 80583
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: shallotte, nc
Posts: 236
Thanks for the responses guys, much appreciated. I work part time at the gun shop where the gun is located. I will carry my digital camera in to work tomorrow and take some good photos in the natural sunlight so that a better opinion can be given. It is a break down model but so far the only thing that has the trench gun markings is the barrel. The bayo lug attachment is there but the heat shield has been cut off of it. You can plainly see in the patina that the shield was there and for many years as the barrel has a "farmer tan" for lack of a better explanation. I would just write it off as a mix match parts gun and it may just be that, but if it is that, it was put together a loonnggg time ago as the patina and the finish (or lack there of) is very very consistent throughout the whole gun. Plus the serial numbers of barrel and rec being only 4k apart says to me that this may have been done at the arsenal. How many 97s had heat shields other than the trench gun? Because this definitely had a heat shield and for a long time a long time ago.

My son (18 years old and a bigger gun fanatic than anyone else I have ever met) wants to buy it for his collection. He is the type that never lets go of anything so it will be in his collection until he stops collecting (not likely). So we're not trying to convince a future buyer that this is the real thing for the purpose of investment or making a profit in the future. He just loves old military guns and has a nice collection of ww1 and ww2 guns already. He'd like to have one of these but won't be able to spend 5-10k on a museum piece any time soon. We can get this one for $1100 with the matching bayonet so that's the only reason I am digging so deep instead of just moving along due to the lack of markings on rec. I will post photos tomorrow night when I get home from the shop. Thanks again for your input guys. Much appreciated.

Eric
crabcatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30, 2019, 05:39   #5
yovinny
Uneducated NYC Boy
Silver Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,290
Pretty hard to go far wrong at that price,,,,Ive seen nice handguards bring more...
yovinny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 31, 2019, 21:10   #6
crabcatcher
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 80583
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: shallotte, nc
Posts: 236
Photos as promised....though a little late. Sorry for that. Please note in photo trench12 the farmer tan I mentioned that clearly shows a heat shield was present at one time. I hope I showed all the areas needed for good opinions. In photo trench8 there is a mark on the stock that could be initials. I admit that I have not looked up what those initials should look like so please excuse my ignorance. Do you guys feel like this would be a good buy at $1100 including the bayonet? I know the finish is gone but honestly I love the look of it. Just want to be sure it's not a lemon in disguise. Thanks again for the input guys, really appreciate it.













crabcatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31, 2019, 21:13   #7
crabcatcher
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 80583
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: shallotte, nc
Posts: 236
Ok, well I tried to post them but they aren't showing up. I normally use the manage attachments feature at bottom of page but it's not here on the shotgun forum for some reason. I am not trained in the image hosting method. I read several threads on how it's done and went to imgur etc but the urls I pasted did not show up. I will continue to try. Sorry for the trouble.
crabcatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31, 2019, 21:14   #8
crabcatcher
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 80583
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: shallotte, nc
Posts: 236
I give up, I have pulled half my hair out trying to post these pics. I thank everyone for their help. Don't know why the marketplace forum is different from this one on posting photos but it is. Thanks again.

Last edited by crabcatcher; August 31, 2019 at 21:26.
crabcatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 01, 2019, 07:48   #9
yovinny
Uneducated NYC Boy
Silver Contributor
 
yovinny's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7679
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wastelands of Western Kentucky
Posts: 6,290
Only contributing members can post pics here.
Even at that,,its easier to use an outside hosting source like imur and copy/paste the url's directly in your post.

If you want, PM me for my email.
I can host and post the pics up for you.
yovinny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 02, 2019, 17:20   #10
lowprone
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 9987
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Whitewood S.D.
Posts: 435
I have an Illinois State Police marked Model 97 riot gun, no bayo lug,
no heat shield.
Heavily buffed and then reblued, no collector value but a good shooter.
lowprone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2019 The FAL Files