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Old October 19, 2019, 22:17   #251
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Our form of Democracy was not formed in a fetal position,,, which is what I'm hearing recommended here,,,



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Old October 20, 2019, 12:56   #252
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During my service we used conscripts to fight wars and as cannon fodder,,, the draft was ended after Viet Nam,,, ours is a all volunteer military, if you don't want your kids to fight they don't have too, neither do you,,, only a large part of our taxation is mandatory taxation by representation, done poorly,,, now some here would do the same with our military.

As has been mentioned here every one here has a diffferent prospective.

Erdeone the Syrian dictator as the only active dictator NATO member can as a self serving choice become the camels nose under the tent flap for Putin and as such preform a small version of a Holocast on the Kurds,,, that done we would not have to endure another 6 KIA foreward observer forces in our Syrian incursion.
We can declare a victory and stick our head up our ass,,, the Kurds won't have much ass left to complain about.

The largest death toll facing this nation is among the volunteer drug user's,,, that number is more than were lost in VN and the ME,,, per year..
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Old October 20, 2019, 13:09   #253
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During my service we used conscripts to fight wars and as cannon fodder,,, the draft was ended after Viet Nam,,, ours is a all volunteer military, if you don't want your kids to fight they don't have too, neither do you,,, only a large part of our taxation is mandatory taxation by representation, done poorly,,, now some here would do the same with our military.

As has been mentioned here every one here has a diffferent prospective.

Erdeone the Syrian dictator as the only active dictator NATO member can as a self serving choice become the camels nose under the tent flap for Putin and as such preform a small version of a Holocast on the Kurds,,, that done we would not have to endure another 6 KIA foreward observer forces in our Syrian incursion.
We can declare a victory and stick our head up our ass,,, the Kurds won't have much ass left to complain about.

The largest death toll facing this nation is among the volunteer drug user's,,, that number is more than were lost in VN and the ME,,, per year..
Assad is the Syria guy
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is the President of Turkey,,a NATO member state


The Turks and Kurds have been going after one another for over 200 yrs.

Just how long and how many American deaths are you willing to accept to keep two assholes from murdering one another????

Me,,,,,none,,,,not one single American kid needs to die in that G-D awful place where death comes easy and often and always has.

The Middle east and Afghanistan are where great powers go to die.
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Old October 20, 2019, 13:30   #254
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Assad is the Syria guy
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is the President of Turkey,,a NATO member state


The Turks and Kurds have been going after one another for over 200 yrs.

Just how long and how many American deaths are you willing to accept to keep two assholes from murdering one another????

Me,,,,,none,,,,not one single American kid needs to die in that G-D awful place where death comes easy and often and always has.

The Middle east and Afghanistan are where great powers go to die.
My dyslectic mistake in dictator location and names,,, our president used the Kurds,,, and indebted this nation in doing so,,, that was a good strategy,,, hanging the Kurds out to dry is a disgrace.
That includes your and my kids.

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Old October 20, 2019, 14:05   #255
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My dyslectic mistake in dictator location and names,,, our president used the Kurds,,, and indebted this nation in doing so,,, that was a good strategy,,, hanging the Kurds out to dry is a disgrace.
That includes your and my kids.
Mr. Martin,,,have you ever met a Kurd????

And you never answered my questions,,,,,,,how long do we stay in that shithole and how many American kids are you willing to have be killed or worst there???

And,,,,you forget,,or do not understand,,all the years we've been working with the Kurds,,,,we've save thousands of them already,,,with military supplies,,training, and we ALWAYS take huge ass medical assets with us any where we go and treat the indigenous peoples.

We train these folks to kill their enemies,,and we also train these people in modern medicine,,,the medicine part is what I did for so many years in these hell holes worldwide.

These folks,,,Kurds,, will need to loose tens of thousands before they get up to the numbers we've already saved from certain death just by teaching them and providing 1st country medicine to them.

And,,,they've already cut a deal,,,with the local players in that area,,,the Kurds will be fine without us.
Or,,,,they will bite off more than they can chew and be extinguished from the face of the planet.

Regardless,,,we've done more than enough,,all on them now.
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Old October 21, 2019, 09:09   #256
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Mr. Martin,,,have you ever met a Kurd????

And you never answered my questions,,,,,,,how long do we stay in that shithole and how many American kids are you willing to have be killed or worst there???

And,,,,you forget,,or do not understand,,all the years we've been working with the Kurds,,,,we've save thousands of them already,,,with military supplies,,training, and we ALWAYS take huge ass medical assets with us any where we go and treat the indigenous peoples.

We train these folks to kill their enemies,,and we also train these people in modern medicine,,,the medicine part is what I did for so many years in these hell holes worldwide.

These folks,,,Kurds,, will need to loose tens of thousands before they get up to the numbers we've already saved from certain death just by teaching them and providing 1st country medicine to them.

And,,,they've already cut a deal,,,with the local players in that area,,,the Kurds will be fine without us.
Or,,,,they will bite off more than they can chew and be extinguished from the face of the planet.

Regardless,,,we've done more than enough,,all on them now.
News reports are mixed some few support your views most support mine,,, that includes politicians and serving military.
To my knowledge I never met a Kurd while working south of their homeland.
I never quit a job once I committed to do it.
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Old October 21, 2019, 09:52   #257
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News reports are mixed some few support your views most support mine,,, that includes politicians and serving military.
To my knowledge I never met a Kurd while working south of their homeland.
I never quit a job once I committed to do it.
The last is an interesting comment.

I can say the same. I get this. But what happens when the job changes? When I commit to something I am clear about what I'm going to do, and I'm also clear about what I'm not going to do. And when they invariably ask me to do more I ask for a scope adder. And whether or not I accept it is up to me. Most of the time I decline but if the pile of money is big enough I'll take it.

This 'mission creep' we see is rampant where US armed forces are concerned, and I'm not seeing anything in the way of an agreement to 'add scope'. To be honest I'm not seeing the original task list presented in terms that might be called an operational definition of the objectives. Troop deployments offshore should never be unlimited in time. 'kill them all until they quit fighting and make peace'? Sure. But if they don't make peace we're gonna need to do something else.

Scope adder. Which might read 'kill 'em all and get out as soon as that's done'. Or, just 'get out now and let 'em kill each other'. I'm good either way.

In any case using the US national defense forces for mercenary work on behalf of certain global multinational organizations isn't what we have them for. Not to say our national interests don't coincide with their agenda once in a while, they do. But it ain't why we have 'em. And unless we have a compelling national security interest of our own we need to not be doing this.
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Old October 21, 2019, 10:57   #258
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News reports are mixed some few support your views most support mine,,, that includes politicians and serving military.
To my knowledge I never met a Kurd while working south of their homeland.
I never quit a job once I committed to do it.
I never look at polls to determine right from wrong,,stupid or smart,,good vs bad, evil vs non-evil,,,our national interest vs someones else's interest,,,but thats just me.

And,,,as for those polls,,,,half the country and the press hate anything Trump does,,,,so,,,,Trump ending the US soldiers being shot at,,,would poll pretty low,,,even though,,most of the dimwits and press were once,,,always calling for ending our involvement in wars.

And finally,,,,,I'm not making billions/trillions of tax dollars off the military procurement system for bombs, ammo,,aircraft,,ships, etc,,,,,so yea,,,I'm ok,,as you say,,,standing alone with,,,bring our kids home now from that shit hole.

There was a video out this morning,,,of kurds throwing potatoes/tomatoes,,at departing GI's.

Several things got my attention with that video many people will miss.

1. The men throwing stuff,,,were all military age.
2. All were pretty well dressed
3. None were underweight.
4. All were well groomed.
5. All were wearing pretty good footwear
6. The women were carrying children,,or had children about at their feet.
7. The women and children looked well fed.
8. Cars were moving about,,all looked to be in running condition.
9. Several people had expensive cell phones in their hands
10. Cell phones were up and running.


With all of the above noted,,,,its no wonder that ABC had to run video of the Knobhill machine gun shoot in Ky,,and just lie,,, it was the poor kurds being murdered.

And just for shits and giggles,,,,how have I missed,,,thousands of kurds being line up in neat little,,,large rows of dead people,,,results from fighting with Turkey?????

Headlines,,,,,,,its horrible,,,the kurds are being slaughtered,,,where as,,,the proof is lacking for anything like this happening.

People in major war zones,,don;t act,,look,,behave like this,,,,,and they sure as hell,,,don;t throw food stuffs into the streets,,.
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Old October 21, 2019, 11:04   #259
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'Reality TV' is only real in an Orwellian sense...

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Old October 21, 2019, 11:12   #260
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Headlines,,,,,,,its horrible,,,the kurds are being slaughtered,,,where as,,,the proof is lacking for anything like this happening.

People in major war zones,,don;t act,,look,,behave like this,,,,,and they sure as hell,,,don;t throw food stuffs into the streets,,.
Didn't need no stinkin proof when we were told OBL planned 9-11 from a Afghan cave, or told Saddam was building nukes, fresh chem weapons and had mobile chem labs, or told Assad was using chem weapons,,,, so why would the Nation of Gullible Rubes need it now?





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Old October 21, 2019, 11:41   #261
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'Reality TV' is only real in an Orwellian sense...

Forrest
Yep!

The only film I've seen posted,,,were some mortar rounds hitting a few buildings.

And some old M60 tanks being hauled and or being un loaded.

We gave the kurds old LAWs I'm sure,,,which will slice and dice an M60 tank,,,

With cell phones everywhere,,,,just where is all of the footage of the kurds being slaughtered?????????????

If it was actually happening,,,can't believe all the war mongers,,,dimwits,,,MSM would not be blaring it 24/7/365,,,,and they ain't,,,,which says,,,,,,,?????????? it just ain't happening?????
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Old October 21, 2019, 11:43   #262
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'Reality TV' is only real in an Orwellian sense...

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A really excellent way to put it, in fact
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Old Yesterday, 02:58   #263
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We used the Kurds,,, where I come from we owe them a debt of gratitude,,, not treachery.
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Old Yesterday, 06:49   #264
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We used the Kurds,,, where I come from we owe them a debt of gratitude,,, not treachery.
Where I come from we don't 'owe' them anything. They've never done anything for me. That's not to say I wish 'em ill, I don't. And they are entitled to the same basic rights as everyone else in my view, as short as that list may be. But that's not the same thing as owing them anything.
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Old Yesterday, 07:30   #265
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Where I come from we don't 'owe' them anything. They've never done anything for me. That's not to say I wish 'em ill, I don't. And they are entitled to the same basic rights as everyone else in my view, as short as that list may be. But that's not the same thing as owing them anything.
This is true. Apparently they didn't realize that our politicians needed to be bribed or extorted to guarantee U.S. involvement. Maybe they'll catch on, and in a few years, we'll suddenly have a "trusted ally", lol.
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Old Yesterday, 07:44   #266
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This is true. Apparently they didn't realize that our politicians needed to be bribed or extorted to guarantee U.S. involvement. Maybe they'll catch on, and in a few years, we'll suddenly have a "trusted ally", lol.



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Old Yesterday, 07:57   #267
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'Trusted ally' is an oxymoron, just sayin ...
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Old Yesterday, 11:13   #268
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We used the Kurds,,, where I come from we owe them a debt of gratitude,,, not treachery.
I'm happy they helped out.

There's my portion of gratitude,,,now paid in full.

Now,,,,get our kids the hell out of there and let them figure it out in their AO.
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Old Yesterday, 13:44   #269
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Everyone wants to go to heaven,,, but no one wants to die,,,, good luck with that.
Ours is a all volunteer military some number will die by doing so,,,, even Boy Scouts die,,, it's a known inevitability,,, waking up each day has it's hazards.
The USA suffered 6 KIA in defeating ISIS,,, the Kurds 11'000 KIA.
This nation rehabilitated the entire world with the Marshall Plan and Care Packages through the UN,,, all in gratitude for being a morale and blessed people,,, being blessed as a right has the same expectations as going to heaven without dying.
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Old Yesterday, 18:29   #270
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Everyone wants to go to heaven,,, but no one wants to die,,,, good luck with that.
Ours is a all volunteer military some number will die by doing so,,,, even Boy Scouts die,,, it's a known inevitability,,, waking up each day has it's hazards.
The USA suffered 6 KIA in defeating ISIS,,, the Kurds 11'000 KIA.
This nation rehabilitated the entire world with the Marshall Plan and Care Packages through the UN,,, all in gratitude for being a morale and blessed people,,, being blessed as a right has the same expectations as going to heaven without dying.
Our armed forces are far better than theirs?????

The Marshall plan gave us present day France and Germany,,,,oh well,,,no one is perfect,,,not even Marshall.
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Old Yesterday, 18:40   #271
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The USA suffered 6 KIA in defeating ISIS,,, the Kurds 11'000 KIA.
You have to be the last person in the US that thinks the US was in Syria to defeat ISIS.

The Saudis, Izzys and US created and funded ISIS to take on Assad.

Assad, the Russian, Iranians and Hezbollah defeated ISIS in Syria.




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Old Yesterday, 18:59   #272
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You have to be the last person in the US that thinks the US was in Syria to defeat ISIS.

The Saudis, Izzys and US created and funded ISIS to take on Assad.

Assad, the Russian, Iranians and Hezbollah defeated ISIS in Syria.




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And now I disagree. It was way more complicated than that. Arabs created ISIS. Our neocons - banksters - socialists just took advantage of the situation. In other words, the control freaks. Totalitarians vs Individual freedom loving citizens.

You would get way more traction if you framed your arguments this way.
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Old Yesterday, 21:27   #273
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Thumbs down

Jihadist from all over the world flocked to the Caliphate ISIS claimed to be,,, it was a win -win deal, you to go to heaven and get 72 virgins any way you look at it,,, that only sounds ridicules to this membership.
ISIS as a entity still exist in large numbers in Africa,,, where we have special force troops.
Kurds were a expendable and just a cost of doing business,,, and appearing to fulfil a campaign promise made our support was withdrawn,,, political expediency and a dirty deal,,, in my opinion.
As was predicted the Russians are now and will fill the vacuum we create,,, that demeans all the sacrifices already made.
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Old Yesterday, 21:41   #274
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Jihadist from all over the world flocked to the Caliphate ISIS claimed to be,,, it was a win -win deal, you to go to heaven and get 72 virgins any way you look at it,,, that only sounds ridicules to this membership.
ISIS as a entity still exist in large numbers in Africa,,, where we have special force troops.
Kurds were a expendable and just a cost of doing business,,, and appearing to fulfil a campaign promise made our support was withdrawn,,, political expediency and a dirty deal,,, in my opinion.
As was predicted the Russians are now and will fill the vacuum we create,,, that demeans all the sacrifices already made.
Well, even if that was true. like that hasn't happened before in service to the NWO...

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Old Yesterday, 21:48   #275
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Well, even if that was true. like that hasn't happened before in service to the NWO...

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When all else fails blame the mysterious NWO,,, or Kilroy.
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Old Yesterday, 22:00   #276
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When all else fails blame the mysterious NWO,,, or Kilroy.
All else has only failed for people who are generally clueless...

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Old Yesterday, 23:19   #277
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Jihadist from all over the world flocked to the Caliphate ISIS claimed to be,,, it was a win -win deal, you to go to heaven and get 72 virgins any way you look at it,,, that only sounds ridicules to this membership.
ISIS as a entity still exist in large numbers in Africa,,, where we have special force troops.
Kurds were a expendable and just a cost of doing business,,, and appearing to fulfil a campaign promise made our support was withdrawn,,, political expediency and a dirty deal,,, in my opinion.
As was predicted the Russians are now and will fill the vacuum we create,,, that demeans all the sacrifices already made.
And yet,,,,when we pulled a few troops out of one area,,,where pray tell did we place them,,and what is their current primary mission????

We pulled them out from working with the Kurds,, and placed them around,,,,wait for it,,,,,,OIL Fields!!!

Now,,,we're exporting oil,,,so no USA national interests in oil fields in that area,,,soooooooooooooooooooooooooo,,,,,,,just who's making money off the USA guarding those oil fields????

Two issues drive the whole middle east involvement by outside countries,, ,,,and all the conflicts that arise there,,,,religion and oil.

The USA has freedom of religion,,and we have all the oil we need,,,so,,,,why be in the middle east at all???

If Germany, France, and England are concerned about their oil and gas,,,which they are,,,then get them panzers,, infantry,,air ops,,, rolling/flying again and go take care of it.

But they can't,,because they gutted their own militaries down to grade school gang status.

There are many reasons to fight and die,,,but for someone else's oil and gas,,,who are capable of doing their own fighting,,,but choose to use our troops as merc's,,,,,,,horseshit.

Let them walk to work and freeze to death.
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Old Today, 00:09   #278
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All else has only failed for people who are generally clueless...

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Dumbfounding that after 8 years of failure in Syria, 20 in Afghanistan, the Iraq debacle, the Ukraine debacle and the Libya debacle that Martin wouldn't ever question why we get lead into these loser wars, who is leading us into these loser wars, and why we piss away so much treasure and blood on failure.

Instead it is another day of waking up to the clock radio playing I got you Babe, putting on the slippers and cheering on more war.




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Old Today, 00:40   #279
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Some of what I'm reading justifies the behavior of Bowe Bergdalh,,, his behavior was based on a similar logic, he tired if what he signed up for ,,, Trump continuing his poiicies like now insures that dependability will become infectious in our military,,, Mattix and Kelly never understood it either,,, they were as expendable as Kurds, and given the same regard and lip service for their ethic's, which are deemed useless now,,, more's the pity.
A long ago speakeasy owner often said "never give a sucker a even break",,, we didn't,,, we treated the sucker's like useful idiot's.
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Old Today, 07:01   #280
juanni
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Originally Posted by martin35 View Post
Some of what I'm reading justifies the behavior of Bowe Bergdalh,,, his behavior was based on a similar logic, he tired if what he signed up for .....
Where did we sign up for perpetual war?
Where did we sign up for regime changes around the world?
Where did we sign up for pissing away trillions?
Where did we sign up to give the Kurds aid forever?

We didn't and we flushed the warmongering political turds you worship, hoping Trump would follow through on his promises to get us out of these loser wars.
3 years into it, beginning to look like he might.


You seem unable to learn when something has failed, it is extra stupid to double down on more failure.

Kinda of like after 6 pages and you have been unable to convince anyone, maybe it is time to give it up.



...........juanni
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Old Today, 11:57   #281
yellowhand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin35 View Post
Some of what I'm reading justifies the behavior of Bowe Bergdalh,,, his behavior was based on a similar logic, he tired if what he signed up for ,,, Trump continuing his poiicies like now insures that dependability will become infectious in our military,,, Mattix and Kelly never understood it either,,, they were as expendable as Kurds, and given the same regard and lip service for their ethic's, which are deemed useless now,,, more's the pity.
A long ago speakeasy owner often said "never give a sucker a even break",,, we didn't,,, we treated the sucker's like useful idiot's.
Mr. Martin

The USA wins,,,when other countries kill off their young people,,destroy their own countries,,destroy their cities,,factories,,peoples.

The USA looses,,,when we kill off our own young peoples.

The goal is for the USA to win,,,let the world kill themselves off by the millions,,we'll remain the worlds only super power.

And yes,,,,,I'm only concerned about the USA.
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Old Today, 13:33   #282
Trypcil
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One has to remember that Obummer and 'Iltlery took us into Syria - illegally. Any promise that Obummer made stays with him - not Trump - or nothing would change from President, to President!
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