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Old December 08, 2019, 15:24   #1
Stoney
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1943 M1 C&R ?

is it C&R?
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Last edited by Stoney; December 09, 2019 at 18:13.
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Old December 08, 2019, 16:57   #2
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Yes, of course.
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Old December 08, 2019, 19:35   #3
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Any firearm 50 years old or older is a C&R. In addition, ATF publishes a listing of firearms that may or may not be 50 years old that are also qualified. Not everyone, even ATF agents, are aware of this. In addition, many Type 01 FFL holders discriminate against C&R FFL holders, and refuse to recognize the license. They will tell you that they need a 'real FFL' to ship to. I refuse to do business with FFL dealers who refuse to honor a C&R FFL.
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Old December 08, 2019, 21:06   #4
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Any firearm 50 years old or older is a C&R. In addition, ATF publishes a listing of firearms that may or may not be 50 years old that are also qualified. Not everyone, even ATF agents, are aware of this. In addition, many Type 01 FFL holders discriminate against C&R FFL holders, and refuse to recognize the license. They will tell you that they need a 'real FFL' to ship to. I refuse to do business with FFL dealers who refuse to honor a C&R FFL.
Iíve seen quite a few m1 receivers on gb that fall in this category, yet state they are not c&r eligible... I donít get it (and I am an 03 lic holder). Must be this discrimination deal Terry is talking about.
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Old December 09, 2019, 00:42   #5
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In CA they make C&R holders jump through a bunch of hoops(Certificate of Eligibility issued by the state, doesn't matter that you've been checked out by the Feds) and all it'll get you in CA is you won't have the 10 day wait for a C&R purchase(but CA requires a DROS and a 4473 to be filled out. Absolutely stupid
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Old December 09, 2019, 12:26   #6
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Iíve seen quite a few m1 receivers on gb that fall in this category, yet state they are not c&r eligible... I donít get it (and I am an 03 lic holder). Must be this discrimination deal Terry is talking about.
Per the ATF stripped receivers are not C&R (iirc) because they are not in a configured as a functioning C&R eligible weapon. weapon. I found this out the hard way when trying to buy a stripped Garand receiver online a few years back. I believe sporterized milsurp may fall into this category too, not 100% sure.
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Old December 09, 2019, 13:30   #7
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Originally Posted by Wacky D View Post
Per the ATF stripped receivers are not C&R (iirc) because they are not in a configured as a functioning C&R eligible weapon. weapon. I found this out the hard way when trying to buy a stripped Garand receiver online a few years back. I believe sporterized milsurp may fall into this category too, not 100% sure.
Wish I could argue but this is my understanding as well. Sporterized may have wiggle room because anything can be undone. How much can a firearm be altered before crossing the threshold of eligibility? Undefined, I suppose.
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Old December 09, 2019, 17:49   #8
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Originally Posted by Wacky D View Post
Per the ATF stripped receivers are not C&R (iirc) because they are not in a configured as a functioning C&R eligible weapon. weapon. I found this out the hard way when trying to buy a stripped Garand receiver online a few years back. I believe sporterized milsurp may fall into this category too, not 100% sure.
Sporters do fall into this as well. In the ATF book for C&Rs it states: any bolt or semi auto rifle made before 1946 in original configuration
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Old December 09, 2019, 19:05   #9
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Wish I could argue but this is my understanding as well. Sporterized may have wiggle room because anything can be undone. How much can a firearm be altered before crossing the threshold of eligibility? Undefined, I suppose.
I think we used to be able to get away with this because the receiver was written up as a long gun in the log. But once the ATF began making the distinction between long gun and receiver, this wiggle room evaporated.
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Old December 10, 2019, 20:13   #10
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Old December 10, 2019, 20:13   #11
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A receiver is not C&R eligable because it is not a "complete" firearm.
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Old December 18, 2019, 08:12   #12
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Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
is it C&R?
Only if it is a complete rifle in its original configuration.
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Old December 18, 2019, 12:49   #13
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there's more to it guys

ATFE has long been weird on C&R
while it's true a bare receiver is not seen as C&R once rebuilt in original configuration it magically becomes one

For awhile the bureau took an extreme position on this though declaring even a refinish negated C&R status
oh and this was Bush era doctrine
Now gets more weird on modified guns
If the alterations were made over 50 years ago a sporterized gun was still C&R thus many cut down milsurps done pre 70s still qualify

Okay why all the goofiness ?
couple a reasons folks

1st after Clinton jacked up fees on 01 FFLs quite a number of people gave them up and shifted to a C&R. There was piles of guns being imported that were eligible but it did take awhile to educate wholesalers.
Well it was a huge can of worms for the bureau as now you had guys with C&R paper buying a dozen guns with the intent to resell at gun shows
nope no 4473 or brady check either

but a huge part of the crazy rules that developed was thanks to the good ole Internet and goofballs writing letters to Tech asking Master May I
anyways the intent of a C&R license was Collecting not as a substitute 01 FFL so ATFE attempted to somewhat limit all the reselling gambits
same period they also redefined manufacturing to include changing the configuration of a firearm
For example an 01 FFL couldn't sporter up say a Swede 95 for resale as a Deer rifle...that required a SOT. That was also part of the C&R thing

Interestingly after Obama got in office most all of these regulations were sidelined and no longer enforced by compliance peoples for the most part

Don't blame 01s for not wanting anything to do with C&R paper
some see it as not worth the potential hassle after 8 years of Bush changing panties mid stride within the industry

and remember C&R regulations Do NOT apply to Antiques
an Antique receiver is totally unregulated Federally
another nuance there is up into the internet era many firearms manufactured post 1898 were still unregulated antiques
All it took was for it to be a model of gun as manufactured prior to 1899 that was chambered in a round not currently available in ordinary channels of commercial trade.
In the early 90s Dixie Gun Works was still selling Broomhandles in .30 Mauser as Antiques as the ammo was no longer in production
When Shiloh Sharps rifles 1st came out the .45s required a 4473, the big .50s did not. Winchesters in .33, .25-35, etc were unregulated as well
internet changed that too

anyways, that's the score on C&R
lot of confusion out there
receivers are not viewed as a collectible firearm until they are built in original configuration
Sporters can be if the work was done 50 years or more back
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Old December 18, 2019, 12:57   #14
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Originally Posted by garandguy10 View Post
Only if it is a complete rifle in its original configuration.
yup but then you get into the crazy:

Bunch of folks have built up M1Ds, K98 Snipers, Nagant PU Snipers
technically they are NOT C&R as they are not in original configuration and not considered as collectibles

Same is technically true of a Garand with a commercial barrel btw

thankfully the bureau don't really enforce this
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