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Old April 30, 2019, 15:10   #1
Tak
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Gear recommendations - Run & Gun specific

Hi all,

As I start my preps for my 1st Run & Gun, I'm having to collect up some more gear.

I don't have a suitable holser for such an event (don't want to use an IWB for this) and was hoping for some suggestions from those who have competed in such activities.

I am thinking that something on the belt is best so it's not clattering around (like a drop leg holster might), and something with a flap in case there's mud to deal with. I'm not worried about being Quick-draw McGraw on the stages; I'd rather get there with pistol safely in it's holseter and free from mud and gunk than have blazing draw times.

Is that a sensible strategy and if so, any holseters to suggest? I will be fielding the venerable Ruger P89 pistol.

Thanks in advance for any help !
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Old April 30, 2019, 19:49   #2
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Much of it depends on what you prefer. Since this is your first, research the prizes given away from past RNG's. You will need the following to comfortably compete:

Good cross country shoes or boots. I am running Bates Hot Weather combat boots. Not the speediest but definitely supports my ankles. My first RNG I ran in a pair of Keen Hiking boots.

Sturdy LBE harness with belt. Military surplus is fine, but many use aftermarket rigs. Some run in the Vest type rigs. I prefer the belt cause I like to attach my gear a little lower than around the chest.

Mag pouches for pistol and rifle mags. Remember you are carrying all of your ammo so figure out how many of each are needed. Flap or taco pouches are up to your preference.

Any holster that securely holds your pistol while you are navigating the course and obstacles. I am running a military M12 flap holster because I saw what the mud did to many pistols during my first RNG. I figure the flap will keep the pistol cleaner than without.

A hydration rig/bladder that you can carry on your back along with the LBE. I got one that I was able to attach to my harness with no issues.

Misc pouches/bags for misc gear you need to bring along. I have a compass pouch for stop watches, ear pro, inhaler, etc. I also carry a dump pouch so I can put my expended mags in.

Extra things I carry. A stop watch (because without my glasses I cannot read the small numbers on my watch), a pen and/or a pencil (JIC), a carb snack (JIC), an IFAK (med kit) with a tourniquet, and my cell phone inside a ziploc bag (JIC).

Take a look at NUTTZ post about the various RNG's he has run. He shows and describes his gear pretty well to give you an idea of what is needed. This sport seems to be always morphing as at each race somebody tries a new piece of gear and others like what they see.
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Old May 01, 2019, 05:56   #3
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You're on the right track. I use a cheap Condor holster on a MOLLE belt (HSGI) and it's been great.
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Old May 02, 2019, 13:57   #4
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Thanks Tac - you suggested a few things I wasn't even thinking of but make a lot of sense

Kotengu thanks for that holster suggestion, I think that will work just fine and is a hell of a lot cheaper than the Bianchi ones I was seeing out there. I am trying to keep my start-up costs down if I can (if I can control myself, that is).

I'm still debating what rifle to use. AR-15 (M&P Sport Carbine), because of the very light weight and compactness (but I'd need to buy a scope and mount) or stick with the FAL because I don't need to buy anything else extra to run that, but I weighed it in at like 13 pounds (not to mention the great length) and trying to run and do obstacles with it seems a much bigger challenge than the AR (weighing in at 6.5 pounds + scope & mount so maybe 7 pounds total).
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Old May 02, 2019, 16:46   #5
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TAK, there is nothing wrong with running a FAL for an RNG. Several of the guys you met in Dawsonville have and still run RNG's with the same FALs they shot there. And one young lady ran a 10K RNG with a Garand and still smoked a bunch of guys running AR's.

For my first RNG, I ran a SCAR 17. Talk about a heavy S.O.B. Plus the 5 mags of 7.62 and 75 rounds of 45 ACP for my pistol. I was toting a load. For your first, just run what you have and feel comfortable with. Don't spend a bunch of money, just yet, because you will probably just buy more stuff that is better, shinier, and the latest rage. Only running the race will give you the input on what gear and guns you will need to upgrade.

One of the RNG's I R/O'd had a couple of shooters that used back packs to carry their gear. While not the high speed low drag equipment the elite use, what they had worked for them and they finished the race.
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Old May 07, 2019, 13:29   #6
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So picked up a molle style belt so I have a place to attach the holster & pistol mag pouches I ordered. It fits over my existing web belt and seems like it will be okay. Just picking budget priced stuff since I'm not doing this for a living, and gear will only be used a few times a year. Trying to stay light weight if I can.

Starting my training for running 3.2 miles a week ago. I have not run more than 25 yards at a time, maybe a handful of times, in proably 15 years, no exaggeration. I am at a desk all day, I hardly even walk much!

Walked slowly 1 mile the first day, 26 minutes
Walked swiftly 1 miile the 2nd day, 17 minutes
Jogged/walked 1 mile the 3rd day, 14 minutes
Ran/Jogged/Walked 1 mile the 4th day, 12 minutes

I know it's only 1 mile and utimately I have to get up to 3, but for me I think it's a somewhat encouraging start, being so sedentary as I am.

I have a long way to go to catch up to all you nuts who run 15 miles or more. If I can get to cover my 3.2 miles mark in about 45 minutes total run time, I'll feel like I've accomplished something.
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Old May 07, 2019, 14:11   #7
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USE THE FAL!!!!
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Old May 07, 2019, 15:54   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeben View Post
USE THE FAL!!!!
Still considering it.

Besides the weight penalty, I'm not sure if I have a prayer to make the 600 yard shot with it, having just a 1x4 little scope on there. I know that's only one Stage, but I'm pretty much 95% guaranteed to DNF that one.

On the plus side I have shot my FAL the most of all my ceterfire rifles, and I find the ergonomics and functionality superior to the AR-15 as crazy as some might find that. The charging handle on the AR just bothers me where it is, that's the biggest thing. I have quite literally only run exactly 100 rounds with my entry-level AR-15 at the range.
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Old May 08, 2019, 05:55   #9
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# 1 - Use a rifle you would grab if you needed to address a "situation" in a hurry.
# 2 - Surplus is fine, but set your rig up, loaded, and get some miles on it before the run. You'll find out a lot before run day if you do this.
# 3 - Whatever footwear you choose, get miles on it before run day. Worn out running shoes beat a new pair of whatever any day of the week.
# 4 - Pants, shorts, shirts, underwear...."cotton is rotten" I've heard many times, and it's true. Synthetic, quick-drying lightweight materials are a pain-saving miracle. Again, get miles/time in them before race day.
# 5 - Have fun! Run N Gun is supposed to be fun, and a learning experience. The idea behind it is to test your gear and your skills under stress, in physically difficult situations. Even the guys that finish at the top will have aspects of their run that make them aware of shortcomings. Enjoy yourself talking to the folks that do this, learn from them - I think you'll find Run N Gun folks are willing to help anyone interested in bettering themselves!
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Old May 08, 2019, 06:08   #10
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I can't believe the mighty TK is on board the synthetic train! I figured you'd wear wool or nothing.
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Old May 08, 2019, 06:10   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kotengu View Post
I can't believe the mighty TK is on board the synthetic train! I figured you'd wear wool or nothing.
After logging too many sweaty miles in cotton, and spending hours in my kayak with wet shorts, I crossed over to the dark side. Now during hunting season, you'll see some wool, fo' sho'.

What kind of gun/gear you running at Pawnee this July?
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Old May 08, 2019, 11:24   #12
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Originally Posted by TedKennedy View Post
What kind of gun/gear you running at Pawnee this July?
I wish I could, man! After over-doing it last year, I'm trying very hard to cut back to a "reasonable" number of RNGs this year.

I'm sending Jimmy Nutt as my stand-in. ;-)
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Old May 08, 2019, 11:50   #13
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I wish I could, man! After over-doing it last year, I'm trying very hard to cut back to a "reasonable" number of RNGs this year.

I'm sending Jimmy Nutt as my stand-in. ;-)
Jimmy's a great guy, but you haven't been out here in a long time.....

You're afraid of our summer Run N Gun, aren't you?
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Old May 08, 2019, 14:12   #14
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Originally Posted by TedKennedy View Post
Jimmy's a great guy, but you haven't been out here in a long time.....

You're afraid of our summer Run N Gun, aren't you?
Summer in OK? Of course I'm afraid!
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Old June 06, 2019, 12:32   #15
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Summer in OK can't possibly be worse than summer in GA. Its been over 90 degrees here every day for just about the past 2 weeks. This isn't even the HOT part of the year down here! I can only imagine the RBGC August 31 event will be brutally hot.

Given the fact that my initial running training has promptly killed my knees, I am opting to go with the light-weight approach for my 1st Run & Gun. That means the AR15 this time around. Less weight means less pounding to my poor stupid knees. Once I get past my rookie status and evaluate how the run goes, maybe the FAL will be for future events.

I've been assembling my gear and will have a mishmash of varied stuff; since I had nothing really I had to start from scratch and its more expensive than I thought...stuff adds up. not that matching gear matters one bit but not a thing will match...I guess that makes for inadvertent camo effect! Trying to find low cost stuff since I'm no pro and even if it lasts a few events that's fine..can always repair or upgrade later if I start doing this stuff 5 times a year or whatever.

Got my running hikers/boots, belt and molle belt and holster, pistol mag pouches, just ordered a surplus LBV and surplus rifle mag pouches, a basic carry sling, got the scope on my AR (just have to zero), along with new Hogue grip and buttstock for it. Just a few more things and I should be ready. Hope to get some practice before then at some of the local IDPA nights or USARMS nights if possible.

CAN'T WAIT !!!!

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Old June 06, 2019, 12:56   #16
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Summer in OK can't possibly be worse than summer in GA. Its been over 90 degrees here every day for just about the past 2 weeks. This isn't even the HOT part of the year down here! I can only imagine the RBGC August 31 event will be brutally hot.

Yeah, our summertime temps are greatly exaggerated. Probably should come to Oklahoma for what will possibly be a cool summer run, in comparison. Be a good "pre-game" workout if you will.

Given the fact that my initial running training has promptly killed my knees, I am opting to go with the light-weight approach for my 1st Run & Gun. That means the AR15 this time around. Less weight means less pounding to my poor stupid knees. Once I get past my rookie status and evaluate how the run goes, maybe the FAL will be for future events.

True, and good choice. When I'm injured or putting in tons of miles, I usually leave the man's rifle at home and bring a .22. That's what most of the competitors use, anyway.


CAN'T WAIT !!!!

You're dead-on the money about investing in gear. It is MUCH better to run a few of these before you spend much, 'cause after a few, you'll probably find some of the stuff you thought would work won't. Plus you'll see tons of variations of gear and get ideas from that as well. You're gonna have a great time either way!
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Old June 08, 2019, 17:47   #17
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So got my latest gear today (from Midway),

Military Surplus MOLLE Fighting Load Carrier, only $19.00 and looks like brand new and fairly well made. Also a surplus new pair of 3 cell AR mag pouches only 5 bucks a piece.

My first plan was to wear this with the AR mag pouches on it, and then also wear my battle belt with my 2 pistol mag pouches and holster on it.

Well that didn't work at all... the vest comes down too low and interferes with the belt way too much. I tried to adjust the vest but just wasn't getting anywhere. Since there are plenty of loops on the vest, I ditched the belt completely an just attached the holster to one side and then attached the pistol pouches on the front of the rifle mag pouches. Works nicely and barely even feel the weight of my heavy pistol now, compared to the battle belt. Now I just need to see if there's a way to adjust the vest's 'belt' down smaller. I guess it's made for big strapping soldiers who are also wearing body armor. Skinny fellow like me it's got lots of room to spare but still works.

Loaded up 4 AR mags (120rds) and 6 pistol mags (80 rds), pistol in holster, and slung my rifle with it's new sling and stepped on the scale. All tolled my gear adds 20 pounds to my fighting weight. I just need to add a water bottle, stopwatch, and probably an IFAK like Tac-40 suggested.

Should come in under 25 pounds with everything together and I'll tip the scales at 195 at the starting line. The FAL would have been 5 more pounds not counting the differential in ammo and mag weight; I'd guess the FAL setup would have been 10 pounds heavier overall.

Now to get to the range and get practicing and hit the streets again for my cardio
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Old June 09, 2019, 06:44   #18
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Great progress!
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Old June 12, 2019, 11:24   #19
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Great thread!
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Old July 04, 2019, 10:58   #20
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Today I decided to push myself beyond my usual run of 1 mile (which I have been doing in about 12 minutes), and ran (per Bing maps) a 2.6 mile course. Just about a half mile shy of the 5k goal.

I was very pleased to find I ran a 28.5 minute time in the 85 degree morning heat. If I can keep up this level I should be able to do the 3.1 miles / 5K in about 35-40 minutes. Figuring in the 10 pounds of gear and slowing down for obstacles, my goal is a 45 minute running time for the RBGC RNG (not counting the stage times).

With just under 2 months left to train I'm hopeful I can meet that goal.
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Old July 05, 2019, 10:33   #21
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Quote:
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Today I decided to push myself beyond my usual run of 1 mile (which I have been doing in about 12 minutes), and ran (per Bing maps) a 2.6 mile course. Just about a half mile shy of the 5k goal.

I was very pleased to find I ran a 28.5 minute time in the 85 degree morning heat. If I can keep up this level I should be able to do the 3.1 miles / 5K in about 35-40 minutes. Figuring in the 10 pounds of gear and slowing down for obstacles, my goal is a 45 minute running time for the RBGC RNG (not counting the stage times).

With just under 2 months left to train I'm hopeful I can meet that goal.
Good work. And keep at it. But I think your are a bit off on your gear weight. Figure 6-8 pounds for rifle, 1½ pounds for pistol, 2-3 pounds for your LBE, the same for your ammo and mags, and 2¼ pounds per liter of water carried. On the heavy side that puts you up to ~16 pounds. So you might want to make sure of the weight you'll be carrying and work on the running carrying that or a little more.

And don't forget those silly little up and down thingy's where you live called hills. You were at RBGC at the FAL match and have seen the only flat spaces are the one being shot over.
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Old July 05, 2019, 12:04   #22
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Thanks for the encouragement !

Actually I mis-remembeed.....I have 20 pounds of gear full load ! Guess I better work a little harder

Where I live is much like Stimpy's range, very few flat spots around here and a pretty big hill to go up just to get out of my neighborhood.

Plus yesterday I had the added 'joy' of a dead armadillo on the roadside providing a nauseating wave of rank air as I ran up the road. Wow...talk about a bad smell.

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Old July 05, 2019, 17:41   #23
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I have an FLC with HSGI taco pouches you can borrow if you would like.

I ran a paratrooper SKS with bandoleer at the last match and was very happy with how well my setup worked. I kept snacks in one dump pouch and two small water bottles on the other one. Pistol mags in the galco mag pouch i hade and the two spares in a cargo pocket


Palladium boots worked out great

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Old July 08, 2019, 10:59   #24
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Don't forget to hydrate your body the day before and the day of your event. Coconut water is excellent and eat bananas for potassium to help avoid cramps. This is especially important in the heat.
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Old July 08, 2019, 11:53   #25
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I also have been preparing for my first run and gun. I have not yet paid to sign up as there are some issues I have to make sure get resolved this week but right now I am planning to participate in the Pawnee Run and Gun this weekend. I will enter the 10k event. I have been collecting and trying out gear for the past year since I made up my mind to do this. Below is a list of what I consider to be essential for my needs. There are many other items that I am not listing because I just didn't think that one choice over the other made that much difference; things like first aid kit, shooting gloves, pants, utility pouches, multi-tools, hydration pack (camel pack), etc. And of course firearms; we each have our own favorites there so there is no sense in me dictating one over another. You should use what you are comfortable with and what you enjoy shooting.

1. Eagle Industries Molle H-Harness This is considered by many to be obsolete compared to some more modern high speed rigs. However, I prefer this style. It is based on the Israeli Ephod system but is more modular being molle. It distributes the load quite well and is pretty comfortable to wear with a full load. What I really like about this system over many of the newer chest rigs is that you can mount your mag pouches off to the side so that you can get down on your belly in the prone position. This not only helps with shooting prone but also when crawling under obstacles where you need to get as low as possible.

2. Bianchi M12 Holster Also considered obsolete by many when compared to the newer high speed kydex type holsters but I love the flap and how well it secures the pistol. Like you I am not after a fast draw but am more concerned with a secure load.

3. Tactical Tailor Universal Mag Pouch I will be using a 5.56 rifle and I have other magazine pouches that would be slightly more compact than these but what I love about these mag pouches is they will hold by 5.56 mags, 7.62x39 AK Mags, Galil Mags, 7.62 FAL mags, basically any magazine for any rifle I own. While that is not so important for the competition; it is extremely versatile for me because I do not use just one rifle here around the farm. I understand that getting good with one rifle is important bla bla bla. But I prefer to use all of my rifles at some point and with these pouches my whole rig is always set up for any of my rifles. These pouches even nicely hold 4 32 round Uzi mags. These pouches also are not as fast as some of the kydex high speed options but as you can probably notice I have a bias more towards securing the load over speed. That is because it is more than just a competition for me. I am using the competition to improve upon my real word environment and many times out in the field I just would not trust a mag pouch that does not have a cover flap. Might be fine running and walking but what about climbing, crawling, sliding, etc.

4. Eagle Industries Double 9mm Pistol Mag Pouch Unlike with rifles, I only use 9mm pistols so these mag pouches work great and are very compact.

5. Sarma Dump Pouch I don't even know if I will end up using this or if I will just reinsert my empty mags back into the mag pouches. I have practiced both ways and I see advantages both ways. Once I am in the run and gun I think it will become obvious. I originally bought a condor dump pouch and it is really nice except it was not very deep. I started looking around and all of the dump pouches were about like the condor and I just felt like with all of the running and jumping and obstacles that a shallow dump pouch might allow mags to jump out; especially if there are several magazines in it. This dump pouch is a few inches deeper. Since I bought this one I have found an even deeper one that I am going to get but I will not have it in time for this run and gun.

6. Salomon Running Boots I started a thread on running boots over a year ago when I first started looking. There were many good suggestions given and ultimately I bought these Salomons. I will never own another brand of hiking boots again. I been wearing these every day for over a year. I wear them to work, to church, playing volleyball, playing basketball. I have run a 5k in them. I have hiked the Alps in them. They are lightweight, comfortable, and they support my feet and ankles. Love them.

7. Darn Tough Socks They have a lifetime warranty. They are comfortable hiking, running, and walking. Like the Salomon boots I have been wearing these almost every day for almost a year. When they get wet they are still comfortable. They have wool in them so they are not as cool as other types of socks but I have been using them all summer and I do not have a problem with them.

8. Rapid Rod Cleaning Rod I carry this in a utility pouch on my H-Harness so that I can clear out a stuck shell case if I need to.

9. Peltor Electronic Hearing Protection I want to be able to hear the RO's with my hearing protection on so I finally broke down and bought a good pair. These have bluetooth so I can listen to music with them. I always listen to music when I run so I might do so in the run and gun as well but will make that decsion on game day depending on conditions. I have been using these for several months and love them. I have found that when I am shooting alone; listening to music while I shoot is very relaxing. I am also bringing along some simple ear plugs as backups.

10. Binary Patrol Sling. Don't bother googling it, I designed and built this myself and I have no pictures of it. I named it myself too thinking someday I would market and sell them but I never have gotten enough initiative to follow through with this. I just build a new one whenever I get a new rifle. Basically it is a two position sling that attaches to the standard sling attachment points on most military rifles. I have them on my FALs, AKs, Galil, Tavor, Uzi, etc. It can be worn with the rifle slung "high and tight" over my back (or across my chest) and then with the click of one buckle it drops to a looser "low and ready" position. I designed it for hunting and hiking where I am always climbing trees, cliffs, etc and I need my rifle stowed away snug and out of the way but I want to be able to put it into a ready state quickly.

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Old July 08, 2019, 14:28   #26
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Sounds like you have most of the problems sorted out. I too, opted for the M-12 holster. A couple of RNG's I RO'd let me see what an open top holster and mud could do to the shooting ability of a normally adept trigger puller. Keeping the pistol as clean as possible means reliability to me.

A couple of things I see missing from your kit is a hydration device of some sort and a miscellaneous pouch for optional stuff like protein bars, bandaids, tape, etc. I incorporated my 2 liter bladder into my H-harness. It rides well on my back and acts as a pad if I carry my rifle slung to the rear. I made sure the carrier has MOLLE fittings so I can add anything required for the specific RNG I am competing in.
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Old July 08, 2019, 14:54   #27
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A couple of things I see missing from your kit is a hydration device of some sort and a miscellaneous pouch for optional stuff like protein bars, bandaids, tape, etc. I incorporated my 2 liter bladder into my H-harness. It rides well on my back and acts as a pad if I carry my rifle slung to the rear. I made sure the carrier has MOLLE fittings so I can add anything required for the specific RNG I am competing in.
I addressed those two items in the first paragraph. I have a 2L hydration pack, also with molle attachments, and I have a utility pouch for misc. stuff. I just don't think it matters which type I chose so I did not take the time to spell it out. The items on my "top 10 list" I feel are a must have; not just to have an item like that but to have that EXACT item as I think it is vastly superior to the other brands or types that I tried out. I also have a full medical kit attached to the back of my H-harness but that is a whole other discussion.
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Old July 09, 2019, 12:53   #28
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I addressed those two items in the first paragraph. I have a 2L hydration pack, also with molle attachments, and I have a utility pouch for misc. stuff. I just don't think it matters which type I chose so I did not take the time to spell it out. The items on my "top 10 list" I feel are a must have; not just to have an item like that but to have that EXACT item as I think it is vastly superior to the other brands or types that I tried out. I also have a full medical kit attached to the back of my H-harness but that is a whole other discussion.

I missed it since I was comparing your gear with mine and seeing if your reasoning agreed with mine. Just scanned the preamble so I could get to the meat. Same here for the med pac, but mine is attached to my battle belt opposite my dump pouch.
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Old July 09, 2019, 14:57   #29
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I incorporated my 2 liter bladder into my H-harness. It rides well on my back and acts as a pad if I carry my rifle slung to the rear. .
That's a darn clever idea. I've been pondering the best way to carry my rifle while actually running (well, briskly jogging, that is) , since my 20 foot test run in the basement with my rifle slung muzzle down on my back with my sling results in lots of bouncing and the rifle whacking my back. I don't plan on spending for a hydration bladder. I think a simple 1 liter canteen is enough for 5k for me. Even in the heat an loaded down it should be manageable. I'm tall and skinny so radiate heat better than the shorter stocky types do I guess.

I've looked at some of the event pictures and the way folks carry the rifle is all over the board. The TAB sling looks cool but out of my price range as a beginner. Others I see just flat out carrying the rifle in front of them with both hands or in one hand. Some slung on back, some slung across chest. I can't run around with a rifle in my actual neighborhood or the sheriff deputy will come screaming in. I might be able to camo up and go run through the little buffering woods between the subdivisions for a full gear test. Almost nobody out there ever and nobody to see me...a real world test would really help - still debating it. I'd not be breaking any laws really (other than trespassing on the unused land of some corporate developer who wouldn't care anyway).
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Old July 10, 2019, 07:55   #30
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I use a Vickers Blue Force 2 point sling. It rapidly adjusts from short to long just by pulling a tab. I normally carry it across my chest in a muzzle down fashion. That gives me a place to rest my hand/arms while keeping the bouncing down to a minimum. I use over the shoulder when negotiating obstacles that make make a chest carry awkward. YMMV.

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Old July 13, 2019, 17:08   #31
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So I finally ran a full 5k this afternoon. High 80's and high humidity since it rained earlier. No gear but a small knife on my belt to fend off attackers.

I was amazed I actually finished it just a few ticks of the stopwatch under 36 minutes.

Even with 20 pounds of gear and guns and a few obstacles, I should be able to meet my goal of a 45 minute time for the purely running portion of the course.

Now I just have to try and improve a little and not burn myself out before the match day, and hit the range a few more times to try and sharpen my very modest marksmanship skills as well
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Old July 14, 2019, 13:02   #32
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So I finally ran a full 5k this afternoon. High 80's and high humidity since it rained earlier. No gear but a small knife on my belt to fend off attackers.

I was amazed I actually finished it just a few ticks of the stopwatch under 36 minutes.

Even with 20 pounds of gear and guns and a few obstacles, I should be able to meet my goal of a 45 minute time for the purely running portion of the course.

Now I just have to try and improve a little and not burn myself out before the match day, and hit the range a few more times to try and sharpen my very modest marksmanship skills as well
...just remember, if you come to Pawnee, 5K and 10K are highly subjective measurements. Other events might experience the same ripple in the time/space/distance universe as well.
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Old July 14, 2019, 14:12   #33
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So I finally ran a full 5k this afternoon. High 80's and high humidity since it rained earlier. No gear but a small knife on my belt to fend off attackers.

I was amazed I actually finished it just a few ticks of the stopwatch under 36 minutes.

Even with 20 pounds of gear and guns and a few obstacles, I should be able to meet my goal of a 45 minute time for the purely running portion of the course.

Now I just have to try and improve a little and not burn myself out before the match day, and hit the range a few more times to try and sharpen my very modest marksmanship skills as well
Read the Legion match thread if you haven't already. That will tell you that running and gunning versus just running is significantly different so don't be disappointed if your time is way more than you expected. In prepping for my first RNG, a 3K match, I did 2-2½ miles 3 times a week on a closed loop track. I got my times down to 32 minutes. When I did the competition, my run time was 82 minutes; more than twice as long for a shorter distance. This last RNG I did, my prep consisted of hot yoga (cardio) twice a week and elliptical training with increasing distances from 3 miles to 4½. My run time was only 20 minutes faster than my first run time and at twice the distance.

So continue to prep and make sure your gears sits and feels good. Since this is your first, concentrate on finishing and trhen worry about improving when you sign up for the next match.
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Old July 14, 2019, 19:12   #34
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Thanks, yes I will be happy no matter what if I just finish without disqualifying myself, without dropping my rifle in the creek, and without DNF on all the stages
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Old August 02, 2019, 22:57   #35
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For all you guys who are good at this running stuff, what's a good way to improve my time on a 5k ? Besides "run faster" which is the obvious.

Keep adding distance beyond 5k/3miles ?

I've done 5k three times now, and hit right at about 36 minutes each time so far (without my gear).

3 weeks left until match day (taking it easy the last week to not be burnt out)
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Old August 04, 2019, 21:56   #36
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okay I know the answer is not to try running 5.5 miles when you usually run 2.9 miles at the most

I also measured my running route with my truck's trip odometer and found I am running 2.9 miles (not 5k like the internet map said), so my 5k time will end up being closer to 40 minutes than 36 minutes. Not counting gear.

I hope to finish the whole match right about 60 minutes total running + shoot time, that's my goal
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Old August 05, 2019, 06:40   #37
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For all you guys who are good at this running stuff, what's a good way to improve my time on a 5k ? Besides "run faster" which is the obvious.

Keep adding distance beyond 5k/3miles ?

I've done 5k three times now, and hit right at about 36 minutes each time so far (without my gear).

3 weeks left until match day (taking it easy the last week to not be burnt out)
3 weeks isn't much time, but consider doing this before the next time;

For 5K runs - do a 4 mile "comfortable pace" run once a week. Don't sweat the time, run where you can have a conversation.

Do two 5k runs as well. Maybe something like:

Mon - 5K
Tues - sprints
Wed - 5K
Thurs - sprints
Fri - 4mi
Sat - sprint
Sun - rest/walk

When I say "sprints" - try doing 100 yds as fast as you can. Walk back, repeat. Do this 4-6 times.

When you're doing your 5K, try "sprinting" a hundred yds, then returning to your usual pace once each mile.

These "sprints" will build muscles for speed, and improve your form. If you have hills in your area, try some hill repeats. (run up, walk down, repeat, repeat, repeat...when you can't run up any more, you're done.)
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Old August 13, 2019, 22:10   #38
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So the damn Georgia weather is conspiring against me here.

95+ the past several days with heat advisories an 'heat index' (whatever that is) of well over 100.

I ran 2.3 miles Saturday and thought I was going to keel over when I got home. And it's just gotten hotter since then. Will try again hopefully it cools down a few degrees by Thursday an Saturday (my next planned running days).

If this heat keeps up for the match it's going to be a brutal day at the ol' RBGC. I actually ordered myself a canteen out of an abundance of caution. Up til now I have been doing all my runs without any water and surviving (but very thirsty) my way home. Don't want to risk that out on the course.

I got a couple weeks to give the Rifle and Pistol a good cleaning (silly AR...needs to be cleaned more than once every 5 years...ppfft!), then one last function and zero check and get psyched up for the match
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Old August 13, 2019, 22:43   #39
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My running has been crap lately.

Plan is to walk if I have to.

Bring the water and salt!

AR?
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Old August 14, 2019, 00:40   #40
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My running has been crap lately.

Plan is to walk if I have to.

Bring the water and salt!

AR?
God bless you. Maybe we can hold hands and walk it together.
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Old August 14, 2019, 00:50   #41
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For all you guys who are good at this running stuff, what's a good way to improve my time on a 5k ? Besides "run faster" which is the obvious.

Keep adding distance beyond 5k/3miles ?

I've done 5k three times now, and hit right at about 36 minutes each time so far (without my gear).

3 weeks left until match day (taking it easy the last week to not be burnt out)
Tak - no offense intended, but you're not going to improve anything in three weeks. What you *can* do is get used to doing that thing you're going to do, and to get used to the gear.

The longer short answer is that there are lots of "5K programs" you can use to get ready - but they are typically 12 weeks long - at a minimum.

Your job right now is to do three things:

1. dry fire a bit - including when you get back from a run so you are hot and sweaty. Try not to be stupid. I offer that as someone who has been stupid many times, so I know a thing or two about it...

2. do NOT get injured in the next three weeks. If you don't run a lot, then don't run a lot. Like Al said - maybe go slow a couple of times per week and maybe do 4 or 5 sprints down at the high school track another day or two. Do NOT *actually* sprint if you haven't done it in a while - just run progressively faster until you can't go faster.

3. wear your gear once per week on your runs - not on every run. Keep your knees and ankles happy, but learn what sucks and what doesn't suck with your gear by wearing it.

Good luck, man. Glad you're doing it.
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Old August 14, 2019, 09:58   #42
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My running has been crap lately.

Plan is to walk if I have to.

Bring the water and salt!

AR?
If it wasn't for that 600 yard shooting I think I'd have planned to use the L1A1. I have no experience shooting past 100 yards, and with the little 1x4 scope on my riFAL I don't think I'd have had a chance at that stage. I got a low cost 3x9 scope with a BDR for my AR and I hope that gives me a chance to hit that 600 yard plate. Plus the lighter weight should help my run.

Lots of learning curve for me on this 1st run&gun. If I don't like the AR after trying it for this event, then the old girl Ellie will be made ready for my next event, whenever that may be.
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Old August 15, 2019, 06:26   #43
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Tak - no offense intended, but you're not going to improve anything in three weeks. What you *can* do is get used to doing that thing you're going to do, and to get used to the gear.

The longer short answer is that there are lots of "5K programs" you can use to get ready - but they are typically 12 weeks long - at a minimum.

Your job right now is to do three things:

1. dry fire a bit - including when you get back from a run so you are hot and sweaty. Try not to be stupid. I offer that as someone who has been stupid many times, so I know a thing or two about it...

2. do NOT get injured in the next three weeks. If you don't run a lot, then don't run a lot. Like Al said - maybe go slow a couple of times per week and maybe do 4 or 5 sprints down at the high school track another day or two. Do NOT *actually* sprint if you haven't done it in a while - just run progressively faster until you can't go faster.

3. wear your gear once per week on your runs - not on every run. Keep your knees and ankles happy, but learn what sucks and what doesn't suck with your gear by wearing it.

Good luck, man. Glad you're doing it.
Listen to this man. He knows a thing or two, because he's seen (and done) a thing or two.
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Old August 15, 2019, 11:58   #44
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Listen to this man. He knows a thing or two, because he's seen (and done) a thing or two.
That sounds like a tv commercial....




I think my true sprinting days are over. The best I can do now is increase my stride from the middle-aged jogging stride to a longer stride to take advantage of my long legs for short distances. I've been trying that approach for the last 100 yards or so before I end my runs to simulate 'sprinting' towards the finish line.
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Old August 16, 2019, 20:24   #45
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Well, I went into the back yard today between the rain squalls and see if my running ability has improved. And the answer is marginally above where I started and significantly below the where others call running begins. For now, I will continue to walk each race, making sure I can cross the finish line upright and on my own.

My wife saw one of my practice runs in the back yard and said I reminded her of the scene in Forrest Gump where he runs from the kids on the bikes. My wife, always supportive of my endeavors.

Carrying this weight for all these years has cause my body to forget (reject) any form of running. I cannot carry a smooth, even pace for any distance. So, I will continue to lose weight and establish a new goal for next year's RNG's: to be able to RUN at least half the distance.

Don't think I'll make my goal of 60 pounds lost before the match next week, but I'll be close - around 55 pounds gone.
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Old August 16, 2019, 21:10   #46
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My wife saw one of my practice runs in the back yard and said I reminded her of the scene in Forrest Gump where he runs from the kids on the bikes. My wife, always supportive of my endeavors.
How come I haven't met your wife?
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Old August 16, 2019, 23:43   #47
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Well, I went into the back yard today between the rain squalls and see if my running ability has improved. And the answer is marginally above where I started and significantly below the where others call running begins. For now, I will continue to walk each race, making sure I can cross the finish line upright and on my own.

My wife saw one of my practice runs in the back yard and said I reminded her of the scene in Forrest Gump where he runs from the kids on the bikes. My wife, always supportive of my endeavors.

Carrying this weight for all these years has cause my body to forget (reject) any form of running. I cannot carry a smooth, even pace for any distance. So, I will continue to lose weight and establish a new goal for next year's RNG's: to be able to RUN at least half the distance.

Don't think I'll make my goal of 60 pounds lost before the match next week, but I'll be close - around 55 pounds gone.
Dude. Look at how far you've come. I barely recognize you in pictures anymore. It's good to look ahead to see all the people you're chasing, but remember to look behind you every once in awhile to celebrate how much you've accomplished already!
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Old August 17, 2019, 13:13   #48
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How come I haven't met your wife?
I always ask her to come along, but she would rather stay at home and pursue her hobbies. I once thought I had her convinced to come to an RBGC FAL match, but she changed her mind. About the only traveling she does now is to be with the grand kids.

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It's good to look ahead to see all the people you're chasing, but remember to look behind you every once in awhile to celebrate how much you've accomplished already!
I still look behind me to verify the weight really is gone. Billy Wilder is attributed to the quote, "hindsight is 20-20." I say that "heinie sight is eye opening".

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Old August 17, 2019, 17:57   #49
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For all you guys who are good at this running stuff, what's a good way to improve my time on a 5k ? Besides "run faster" which is the obvious.

Keep adding distance beyond 5k/3miles ?

I've done 5k three times now, and hit right at about 36 minutes each time so far (without my gear).

3 weeks left until match day (taking it easy the last week to not be burnt out)
HIIT = High Intensity Interval Training. There are many different variations. Just google it and read up on it. I run about 1 mile at a slightly slower pace than normal to warm up; then I sprint 200 meters. I then run at a slower pace (as slow as I need to to recover but I keep running even if it is barely running). Recovery is about 1/4 mile then sprint 200 meters again. I run a total of 3 miles with 5 sprints. This will build up your speed.

Prior to my first run and gun (Pawnee, OK July 10k) I was running 7 miles in 60-62 minutes with no gear. At the run and gun with all the gear my run time was 113 minutes (it was just over 7 miles). So, almost double. I had intended to run with my gear as I live in a place where that is not a problem, but between being busy and lazy I just never did it. I too thought it would be similar with the gear. It is not. I liken it to preparing for a long jump contest by just running. The difference between running and a run and gun is about the same as the difference between running and long jumping in my opinion.
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Old August 20, 2019, 08:43   #50
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Well, I went into the back yard today between the rain squalls and see if my running ability has improved. And the answer is marginally above where I started and significantly below the where others call running begins. For now, I will continue to walk each race, making sure I can cross the finish line upright and on my own.

My wife saw one of my practice runs in the back yard and said I reminded her of the scene in Forrest Gump where he runs from the kids on the bikes. My wife, always supportive of my endeavors.

Carrying this weight for all these years has cause my body to forget (reject) any form of running. I cannot carry a smooth, even pace for any distance. So, I will continue to lose weight and establish a new goal for next year's RNG's: to be able to RUN at least half the distance.

Don't think I'll make my goal of 60 pounds lost before the match next week, but I'll be close - around 55 pounds gone.
Do you have a running store nearby? See about a trainer that can evaluate your form. I don't care what your level is - they can help you. Do NOT let your thoughts of limitations keep you from getting better - guys that know what they're doing can analyze your run, look at your goals, and really, really help you achieve more than you imagine.
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